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What does everyone think about coaches and parents who turn the other cheek when a kid gets into trouble with chemicals. You know... kids will be kids.

mnhockeydadof2 wrote:What does everyone think about coaches and parents who turn the other cheek when a kid gets into trouble with chemicals. You know... kids will be kids.

Wherever this topic heads, if names are named, the topic will be deleted and the person naming names....well, you know....

Lee

I agree completely, it's not about the kids as much as it is the coaches and the MSHL... especially when it pushes kids down to JV to make room for a troublemaker.

wow ur kind of twisted when it pushes kids down to jv obviosuly the other player who had some trouble was clearly better to have some problems and still make varsity.


these are hockey players their idols fight on the ice have no teeth and like to bash eachother a rough violent sport........and they all grew up traveling with parents that drink at tournaments. if they make a mistake they should have the oppurtunity to redeem themselves if they are GOOD players period!!!!

mnhockeydadof2 wrote:I agree completely, it's not about the kids as much as it is the coaches and the MSHL... especially when it pushes kids down to JV to make room for a troublemaker.

u started good than you posted this...there should always be punishment but if the kid wants to redeem himself and again is a GOOD player than i would want him on my team as a coach to help develop him into good person and hockey player!

i personaly have mixed views on this one. as far as tobacco goes i think if you get caught chewing/smoking by a coach or administrator you deserve the suspension, however i can tell you from experience that coaches wont go out of their way to catch people who chew, if they all did about 70% of the players in the state would have to sit for 2 weeks. as far as drinking goes i think players should only be punished if its a problem, or they are dumb enough to let pics of them drinking show upon facebook/myspace. if its not interfereing with their on-ice or classroom performance, then i say let it go. however if a player is drinking on the night before games, in school,ect then the other players should try totalk tohim about it and if that fails, go to the coach and let him decide what to do. im not promoting underage drinking but were all young and dumb at some point and make mistakes, no reason to jeapordize someone's future so just you can pat yourself on the back.

Is it about win at all costs, what are the kids being taught? i dont think it should matter the skill if you break the conduct rule maybe if its more strict kids will give a crap.

aceinthehole wrote:

mnhockeydadof2 wrote:I agree completely, it's not about the kids as much as it is the coaches and the MSHL... especially when it pushes kids down to JV to make room for a troublemaker.

u started good than you posted this...there should always be punishment but if the kid wants to redeem himself and again is a GOOD player than i would want him on my team as a coach to help develop him into good person and hockey player!

I was agreeing w/ the no names deal. I do believe than kids make mistakes - but what about 2, 3, 4 times? dont make the punishment too harsh - someone just might learn a lesson! maybe it was made by the same people who wrote the drinking/driving laws. .. or the people who buy alcohol for their kids parties.

what is the rule
from players that i know who have been caught the suspension has been a lot of games

I think it's like 4 games for the first time, 6 for the second? Not sure - all I know is that in baseball for example, they sit quiet on the bench and then go out and play like nothing happpened and the kids that "filled in" get the shaft... again.

hockeyhair15 wrote:i personaly have mixed views on this one. as far as tobacco goes i think if you get caught chewing/smoking by a coach or administrator you deserve the suspension, however i can tell you from experience that coaches wont go out of their way to catch people who chew, if they all did about 70% of the players in the state would have to sit for 2 weeks. as far as drinking goes i think players should only be punished if its a problem, or they are dumb enough to let pics of them drinking show upon facebook/myspace. if its not interfereing with their on-ice or classroom performance, then i say let it go. however if a player is drinking on the night before games, in school,ect then the other players should try totalk tohim about it and if that fails, go to the coach and let him decide what to do. im not promoting underage drinking but were all young and dumb at some point and make mistakes, no reason to jeapordize someone's future so just you can pat yourself on the back.

Underage drinking is illegal... The last time I checked.

couple thoughts 1 this thread lit up like a christmas tree, 2 hockey dad must be a mormon

the rulei s 2 weeks for the 1st violation 4 for the second then a year i think, the only thing imsure of is the first time is 2 weeks, of course the coach or ad can tack on extra time if he sees fit

ok while i know of a couple players that got suspended for 7 games for first offense....im not sure what the mshl rule is but it seems as if though its up to the coach or athelitc director

hockeyhair15 wrote:i personaly have mixed views on this one. as far as tobacco goes i think if you get caught chewing/smoking by a coach or administrator you deserve the suspension, however i can tell you from experience that coaches wont go out of their way to catch people who chew, if they all did about 70% of the players in the state would have to sit for 2 weeks. as far as drinking goes i think players should only be punished if its a problem, or they are dumb enough to let pics of them drinking show upon facebook/myspace. if its not interfereing with their on-ice or classroom performance, then i say let it go. however if a player is drinking on the night before games, in school,ect then the other players should try totalk tohim about it and if that fails, go to the coach and let him decide what to do. im not promoting underage drinking but were all young and dumb at some point and make mistakes, no reason to jeapordize someone's future so just you can pat yourself on the back.

No need to jeopordize someone's future? What about the future of the OTHER kids? Oh, yea. These kids usually don't care about anyone else.

I am not a moran... and I am not saying you are... but did you reread your post? "not promoting underage drinking but were all young and dumb at some point and make mistakes..." If this is the case, then why have laws? Sorry officer. I know I was drinking and I'm only 17, but I made a "mistake". I forgot it was illegal. and yes.. chew and cigs are illegal under 18.

mnhockeydadof2 wrote:

hockeyhair15 wrote:i personaly have mixed views on this one. as far as tobacco goes i think if you get caught chewing/smoking by a coach or administrator you deserve the suspension, however i can tell you from experience that coaches wont go out of their way to catch people who chew, if they all did about 70% of the players in the state would have to sit for 2 weeks. as far as drinking goes i think players should only be punished if its a problem, or they are dumb enough to let pics of them drinking show upon facebook/myspace. if its not interfereing with their on-ice or classroom performance, then i say let it go. however if a player is drinking on the night before games, in school,ect then the other players should try totalk tohim about it and if that fails, go to the coach and let him decide what to do. im not promoting underage drinking but were all young and dumb at some point and make mistakes, no reason to jeapordize someone's future so just you can pat yourself on the back.

No need to jeopordize someone's future? What about the future of the OTHER kids? Oh, yea. These kids usually don't care about anyone else.

I am not a moran... and I am not saying you are... but did you reread your post? "not promoting underage drinking but were all young and dumb at some point and make mistakes..." If this is the case, then why have laws? Sorry officer. I know I was drinking and I'm only 17, but I made a "mistake". I forgot it was illegal. and yes.. chew and cigs are illegal under 18.

ur right there should be a punishment but if it is first offense or second it is still coaches choice who is on the team im sure the coach wants to win...
and if the kid has some talent let him do his time if the coach thinks it worthwhile and than let him play.

mnhockeydadof2 wrote:Is it about win at all costs, what are the kids being taught? i dont think it should matter the skill if you break the conduct rule maybe if its more strict kids will give a crap.

Exactly. They know the rules. If they choose to break them, it not only shows a lack of intelligence, but it disrespects their teammates, their coaches and more importantly, themselves. I have no sympathy for those who are caught.

Lee

mnhockeydadof2 wrote:

hockeyhair15 wrote:i personaly have mixed views on this one. as far as tobacco goes i think if you get caught chewing/smoking by a coach or administrator you deserve the suspension, however i can tell you from experience that coaches wont go out of their way to catch people who chew, if they all did about 70% of the players in the state would have to sit for 2 weeks. as far as drinking goes i think players should only be punished if its a problem, or they are dumb enough to let pics of them drinking show upon facebook/myspace. if its not interfereing with their on-ice or classroom performance, then i say let it go. however if a player is drinking on the night before games, in school,ect then the other players should try totalk tohim about it and if that fails, go to the coach and let him decide what to do. im not promoting underage drinking but were all young and dumb at some point and make mistakes, no reason to jeapordize someone's future so just you can pat yourself on the back.

No need to jeopordize someone's future? What about the future of the OTHER kids? Oh, yea. These kids usually don't care about anyone else.

I am not a moran... and I am not saying you are... but did you reread your post? "not promoting underage drinking but were all young and dumb at some point and make mistakes..." If this is the case, then why have laws? Sorry officer. I know I was drinking and I'm only 17, but I made a "mistake". I forgot it was illegal. and yes.. chew and cigs are illegal under 18.

ok now i will call you a moran, if you could read i called you a morman the first time you know the religion that doesnt allow drinking ok now that were past that. im not saying that we should go into a state of boozing anarchy where there are no laws against it, all im saying is that if its not hurting anyone why go out of your way to get someone in trouble. i kno its hard for you to believe that there are decent kids out there who wanna have a good time every once in awhile. just because you and your mathleate buddies didnt so much as walk to the bathroom without a hall pass does not give you the right to lump everyone who drinks into the "raging alcholic cancer to the team pac man jones type people". and if the sauce is so harmfull it should give your angel of a son an upper hand to make the varsity squad, all he needs to do is out work the other kids. maybe get an extra lift in while they are at the AA meetings

Ace I appreciate your opinion. I don't agree, but I was looking for opinions and that's what I received.

alright i know its probably not what you wanted to hear and if i was coach and someone got in trouble several times i would probably take a kid i knew who i could still develop and wouldnt get in trouble. But i would have a hard time if the kid was a star. either way yeah there should be a punishment i hope ur kid or whoevers kid a fresh and soph and can work hard this year and play next year.......its a hard lesson.

hockeyhair15 wrote:

mnhockeydadof2 wrote:

hockeyhair15 wrote:i personaly have mixed views on this one. as far as tobacco goes i think if you get caught chewing/smoking by a coach or administrator you deserve the suspension, however i can tell you from experience that coaches wont go out of their way to catch people who chew, if they all did about 70% of the players in the state would have to sit for 2 weeks. as far as drinking goes i think players should only be punished if its a problem, or they are dumb enough to let pics of them drinking show upon facebook/myspace. if its not interfereing with their on-ice or classroom performance, then i say let it go. however if a player is drinking on the night before games, in school,ect then the other players should try totalk tohim about it and if that fails, go to the coach and let him decide what to do. im not promoting underage drinking but were all young and dumb at some point and make mistakes, no reason to jeapordize someone's future so just you can pat yourself on the back.

No need to jeopordize someone's future? What about the future of the OTHER kids? Oh, yea. These kids usually don't care about anyone else.

I am not a moran... and I am not saying you are... but did you reread your post? "not promoting underage drinking but were all young and dumb at some point and make mistakes..." If this is the case, then why have laws? Sorry officer. I know I was drinking and I'm only 17, but I made a "mistake". I forgot it was illegal. and yes.. chew and cigs are illegal under 18.

ok now i will call you a moran, if you could read i called you a morman the first time you know the religion that doesnt allow drinking ok now that were past that. im not saying that we should go into a state of boozing anarchy where there are no laws against it, all im saying is that if its not hurting anyone why go out of your way to get someone in trouble. i kno its hard for you to believe that there are decent kids out there who wanna have a good time every once in awhile. just because you and your mathleate buddies didnt so much as walk to the bathroom without a hall pass does not give you the right to lump everyone who drinks into the "raging alcholic cancer to the team pac man jones type people". and if the sauce is so harmfull it should give your angel of a son an upper hand to make the varsity squad, all he needs to do is out work the other kids. maybe get an extra lift in while they are at the AA meetings

You know, if you're going to call someone a moron, at least spell it correctly. Your entire post almost looked like you were drinking while typing it.

What part of "it's the rule" is going over your head here? Are you too young to understand this or do you just not care?

Oh, and it's illegal. That seals it.

Lee

Here's my take on it, it's a double edged sword.

As a former high school coach I understand the rules and need for punishment, as an educator I also don't believe in how harsh of a punishment it can be. Here's why; any kid can make a mistake, be it a bad decision, peer pressure, being in the wrong place at the wrong time or any combination there of. The first offense is a proper punishment, it should teach a lesson, you're responsible for your actions. I'm also a realist, if the kid got caught it probably wasn't the first time he was using so now he also knows he's not invincible, another good lesson.

Now here's where I differ, (tabacco aside) after the first offense the kid has a problem, by any definition, the kid is at least a boarderline alcoholic or addict. You may very well have taken the carrott away from him and getting the kid evaluated and treated if needed should be the concern, not overwhelming punishment. If the kid shows remorse and completes a treatment program and is tested randomly at the parents expense the penalty should be no more than the initial penalty. The thinking being getting to the kid early may save him, throwing him away will not. He is after all a kid. There are kids who won't jump through the hurdles to be reinstated but I believe you have to give them that option, with the caveat that they don't come back until treatment is complete and sobriety is confirmed.

east hockey wrote:

hockeyhair15 wrote:

mnhockeydadof2 wrote: No need to jeopordize someone's future? What about the future of the OTHER kids? Oh, yea. These kids usually don't care about anyone else.

I am not a moran... and I am not saying you are... but did you reread your post? "not promoting underage drinking but were all young and dumb at some point and make mistakes..." If this is the case, then why have laws? Sorry officer. I know I was drinking and I'm only 17, but I made a "mistake". I forgot it was illegal. and yes.. chew and cigs are illegal under 18.

ok now i will call you a moran, if you could read i called you a morman the first time you know the religion that doesnt allow drinking ok now that were past that. im not saying that we should go into a state of boozing anarchy where there are no laws against it, all im saying is that if its not hurting anyone why go out of your way to get someone in trouble. i kno its hard for you to believe that there are decent kids out there who wanna have a good time every once in awhile. just because you and your mathleate buddies didnt so much as walk to the bathroom without a hall pass does not give you the right to lump everyone who drinks into the "raging alcholic cancer to the team pac man jones type people". and if the sauce is so harmfull it should give your angel of a son an upper hand to make the varsity squad, all he needs to do is out work the other kids. maybe get an extra lift in while they are at the AA meetings

You know, if you're going to call someone a moron, at least spell it correctly. Your entire post almost looked like you were drinking while typing it.

What part of "it's the rule" is going over your head here? Are you too young to understand this or do you just not care?

Oh, and it's illegal. That seals it.

Lee

yea we should realy have a spell check button for those of us too hammered to spell correctly, or maybe one of those breathalizers things, where you cant get on unless your sober, that would help me look like less of an idiot, i'm really sorry i mispelled a word..... how dare i?

in my drunken stupor i may have not made my oppinion clear so let me try again.

to answer your question no i really do not care when coaches or parents turn their cheek to players drinking. what is the harm of going outon a saturday night and having a few beers at a party? yea i understand its illegal but that argument doesnt hold up because so is speeding, stealing, not putting a quarter in the meter. should players get a suspension for breaking these laws too? howbout a senior whos 18 chewing, hes not breaking any laws, not gonna get a ticket for it so why should get suspended?

and let me ust say if you think that high school kids arent drinking chewing, cmon how naieve are you? if every coach went out of his way to catch every player who was doing either of these 70-80% of the players in the state would be suspended. for what? so a coach can pat himself on the back. look if you get caught thats too bad but we dont need an "athletes drinking/chewing task force" to catch the ones who are. because in the long run theyre gonna do it either way so why deny them the chance to play?

you asked for my oppinion and there it is

[quote="hockeyhair15.. all im saying is that if its not hurting anyone why go out of your way to get someone in trouble. i kno its hard for you to believe that there are decent kids out there who wanna have a good time every once in awhile. just because you and your mathleate buddies didnt so much as walk to the bathroom without a hall pass does not give you the right to lump everyone who drinks into the "raging alcholic cancer to the team pac man jones type people". and if the sauce is so harmfull it should give your angel of a son an upper hand to make the varsity squad, all he needs to do is out work the other kids. maybe get an extra lift in while they are at the AA meetings[/quote]


ok. now i understand. you have got to be a kid... or I've seen you before on one of those redneck shows. Kids who wanna have a good time every once in a while? You have to equate that to chemicals? You are right about my kid getting extra time in while the others are at AA - or while they are in jail for a minor.

I agree with the person who said that a player shoudl be able to redeem themselves - especially if they are willing to do whatever it takes to earn their uniform and the respect of the other kids. Then again, there are those who want to sweep it under the rug, pretend they did nothing etc.

mnhockeydadof2 wrote:[quote="hockeyhair15.. all im saying is that if its not hurting anyone why go out of your way to get someone in trouble. i kno its hard for you to believe that there are decent kids out there who wanna have a good time every once in awhile. just because you and your mathleate buddies didnt so much as walk to the bathroom without a hall pass does not give you the right to lump everyone who drinks into the "raging alcholic cancer to the team pac man jones type people". and if the sauce is so harmfull it should give your angel of a son an upper hand to make the varsity squad, all he needs to do is out work the other kids. maybe get an extra lift in while they are at the AA meetings

ok. now i understand. you have got to be a kid... or I've seen you before on one of those redneck shows. Kids who wanna have a good time every once in a while? You have to equate that to chemicals? You are right about my kid getting extra time in while the others are at AA - or while they are in jail for a minor.

I agree with the person who said that a player shoudl be able to redeem themselves - especially if they are willing to do whatever it takes to earn their uniform and the respect of the other kids. Then again, there are those who want to sweep it under the rug, pretend they did nothing etc.[/quote]

people go to jail for minors? where are you from? oh and btw, way to be mature with the "redneck show" comment, sorry we cant all be stuck up CEO's of fortune 500 companies like you must be. if you honestly expect hockey players, who are in this state the most popular athletes in the school, with a few exceptions of course, to not have a social life you're nuts. as someone who's obviously never made a mistake in his life and has a son who is either perfect or neverletout of the house except for school and hockey i can see how you dont understand. whine about the way it is all you want it wont change and it wont make your son any better.

hockeyhair15 wrote:

mnhockeydadof2 wrote:[quote="hockeyhair15.. all im saying is that if its not hurting anyone why go out of your way to get someone in trouble. i kno its hard for you to believe that there are decent kids out there who wanna have a good time every once in awhile. just because you and your mathleate buddies didnt so much as walk to the bathroom without a hall pass does not give you the right to lump everyone who drinks into the "raging alcholic cancer to the team pac man jones type people". and if the sauce is so harmfull it should give your angel of a son an upper hand to make the varsity squad, all he needs to do is out work the other kids. maybe get an extra lift in while they are at the AA meetings

ok. now i understand. you have got to be a kid... or I've seen you before on one of those redneck shows. Kids who wanna have a good time every once in a while? You have to equate that to chemicals? You are right about my kid getting extra time in while the others are at AA - or while they are in jail for a minor.

I agree with the person who said that a player shoudl be able to redeem themselves - especially if they are willing to do whatever it takes to earn their uniform and the respect of the other kids. Then again, there are those who want to sweep it under the rug, pretend they did nothing etc.

people go to jail for minors? where are you from? oh and btw, way to be mature with the "redneck show" comment, sorry we cant all be stuck up CEO's of fortune 500 companies like you must be. if you honestly expect hockey players, who are in this state the most popular athletes in the school, with a few exceptions of course, to not have a social life you're nuts. as someone who's obviously never made a mistake in his life and has a son who is either perfect or neverletout of the house except for school and hockey i can see how you dont understand. whine about the way it is all you want it wont change and it wont make your son any better.[/quote]

Exactly my point in why it all needs to be tightened up. In an earlier post, you said that you see nothing wrong in kids going out to a party and having some beer on a Saturday night. You call me stuck-up because I follow the law? You think my son doesn't go out? He does - but we have rules and he has integrity and self respect. Do I care if he becomes a better hockey player? Nope. I just want him to grow up to be a good citizen and have respect for himself and others. He may be a "nerd" in your book - but let's see where the chips falls later in life.

to answer a future question you're sure to ask in your future profession young man - yes, I would like fries with that.