HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

Star Tribune uses Budish case as illustration:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/preps ... anchO7DiUJ

And here's a poll:

http://www.startribune.com/polls/357941 ... anchO7DiUJ

Gee, tomorrow are they going to profile dogs that pee on hydrants? OF COURSE Don Lucia wants his recruits to play hockey only.

O-townClown wrote:Gee, tomorrow are they going to profile dogs that pee on hydrants? OF COURSE Don Lucia wants his recruits to play hockey only.

no i think thats after the one on women who cant drive and college kids who drink, its this new series they're doing called "you already know this but we need to fill space"

sad is what it is. too many of these hs kids get pushed too fast into one sport. between college and junior coaches or pyscho parents not sure who is worse. budish's comment about what he would say to an up & comer should be a wake up call to coaches and parents.

This will hurt Lucia, other coaches will come into a recruits house with this quote. There will be good kids who go elsewhere because of his stance.

goldy and black sheep, I couldn't agree more. These are kids, not professional athletes. They need to be allowed to live their life.

I gave this example in another thread; Jay Thomas, current RB for the Gophers and state participant in Track his Junior season. He didn't run his senior season because he had committed to the Gophers. I never played football, but I can't think of a better way to work on speed that is good for a RB than to be running against other top notch athletes like he was on a regular basis.

Why are we looking for something to blame? He's an athlete. Athlete's get hurt. End of story in my opinion. It happening during football is coincidental.
What if he had been jogging one day and twisted his ankle and been out for the season? You think Lucia would say "I'm now going to tell my athlete's they can't jog"? Absolutely not. The list of hypotheticals is endless.

In the new recruits' situation, it doesn't mention the school. He may be able to look back in 5 years and see a hand without a ring his classmates have. Or he may miss out on numerous memories that come with football. Jay Thomas missed out on easily making it to the state finals, something he can never get back.

Lastly, cross training in sports is a must. Anyone who knows much about the development of the body and how to train it will tell you this. Playing football doesn't mean you're not a hockey player. It simply means you are getting a work out in a different fashion, which is good for your body. Getting hurt cross training is unfortunate, but it doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

Sorry boys i have to side with coach on this one. You need to look at it from the school's side as well. When they are shelling out 75-100,000 for a free education, you bet they should be able to put pressure on these kids not to play other sports.
Pro sports teams don't allow Jet ski's-Downhill Sking-Motorcyles etc. for that very reason. Their protecting their investment..
The game/athlete have changed dramaticaly the past 20 year's. Most kids have to skate year round and focus on 1 sport, otherwise they can't stay caught up with everyone else.
Lee-Buddish-Alt etc. are exceptions today, but i also think you have to wait and see how everything pans out. I for 1 think Anders Lee is an exceptional athlete, but only time will tell if he would have focused on hockey how good he could have really been. From what i've seen to this point, although a star in Minnesota High School hockey he's not a great hockey player. He's bigger and stronger which sets him apart at this LEVEL. I wish him well, but have to believe hockey SHOULD have been his choice, as i don't see him taking "ALL Day" A.P down in the open field any time soon.. The same holds true for the others..

goldy313 wrote:This will hurt Lucia, other coaches will come into a recruits house with this quote. There will be good kids who go elsewhere because of his stance.

As a Bulldog fan, all I have to say in response is "good!"

Lee

i think Lucia will be fine after saying that... before he said the number of football hockey players was going down anyways. If the football season didnt last until the end of November im sure more kids would do it. I have no idea why it last so long, maybe high school football should think about making a change

My question for Lucia is does he think players like Zach Budish would be as good at hockey had they not played football? The two sports are very similar when you think about it. Both are very physical, require a huge time commitment and a ton of hard work both on and off the field or ice. In my mind, football creates better hockey players and hockey creates better football players.

Chief, You need to understand the real length of the Football season. Practice started on August 14 for all teams in MN. Regular season games ended on October 15 with playoff games on October 21. After the first playoff game half the teams in the state are done playing football. That means the season is 2 months and 1 week long for half the teams in the state. The next playoff game is October 25 which means 3/4 of the teams are done playing. The only teams playing into November are the top teams in each class. Compare that with the Hocky season which starts on November 17 and playoffs start on February 26, 2009 when after the first playoff game 1/2 of the hockey teams will be done playing. 2 month and 1 week season for football compared to a 3 month and 1 week season for hockey. The hockey season is over 1 month and 1 week longer than the football season. I don't really think football needs to change anything.

I've read full ride scholarships are not the norm in hockey because of the number of scholarships that are available and the number of players that fill out the team. I've also heard that it is even rarer to get the full ride scholarship offered to a player that already resides in the state and the area. They will likely split a full scholarship up and offer some monies to two players. They can get more players for the same money.

I would also have to side with the coach on this. By the time a scholarship is actually offered, we're talking about a senior in HS. I'm not talking about verbal commitmants. If a player knows that they are scholarshipped by the start of their senior year, they should be committed to the sport that got them the scholarship.

What would happen to the scholarship if Zach B. was unable to play hockey anymore or at a D1 level? I've heard the school could pull the offer, but would most likely honor the scholarship even though he could not play. Should they honor it? If they don't have to honor it, why would a player jeprodize the scholarship no matter what dollar amount is attached to it?

Does USA hockey allow their NTDP players to play other sports? Do USHL
teams allow their players to play another sport if they are attending a junior college at the time?

Contradamus wrote:Chief, You need to understand the real length of the Football season. Practice started on August 14 for all teams in MN. Regular season games ended on October 15 with playoff games on October 21. After the first playoff game half the teams in the state are done playing football. That means the season is 2 months and 1 week long for half the teams in the state. The next playoff game is October 25 which means 3/4 of the teams are done playing. The only teams playing into November are the top teams in each class. Compare that with the Hocky season which starts on November 17 and playoffs start on February 26, 2009 when after the first playoff game 1/2 of the hockey teams will be done playing. 2 month and 1 week season for football compared to a 3 month and 1 week season for hockey. The hockey season is over 1 month and 1 week longer than the football season. I don't really think football needs to change anything.

touche

komada77 makes a very good point similar to mine. Players play sports that are similar or have similar aspects, making them excel at both of them more. The best three sports including hockey I can think of are soccer, hockey and lacrosse. Why limit one in playing another?

One issue people keep bringing up is that somehow playing another sport could take away from your playing of another sport. This is ridiculous.

In the MSHSL we are in a system set up to handle multisport athletes, where each season is only a few months long. RLStars, you are right that when an athlete is playing for the NTDP or the USHL they cannot participate in organized sports other than hockey, but their seasons are much longer and they do not have the opportunity to. I cannot be sure, but if MN had an identical season of hockey in the spring, many hockey players would probably play in it as well. But this is not the case.

Why is the fact of it being an organized sport a bad thing? I'm sure Lucia hasn't said "you can't play football with your friends anymore" to anyone. It's the organization of the sport, which seems quite backwards to me.

What's the big deal? Why do people really care? If playing another sport was so bad, students would have to specialize in high school. There have been athlete after athlete who do this and improve in their sport and no one comes out and endorses the multiple sport aspect. Just because one bad thing happened we need to stop it? That's silly.

Yes, the USHL and Juniors seasons are longer, but when you factor in the Elite League, you end up closer in games, and thats the point of the Elite League isn't it. Its helping to keep kids at home to play for the HS.

We are talking about the comments of a Division I hockey coach here as it pertained to a recruit of his, not the average or above average HS athlete. My point is once you commit to an educational institution and accept their scholarship offer, a player should commit fully to that program. The school is basically paying you to play for them. I'm not saying don't play three sports as your growing up, cross train, or play multiple sports in HS. I'm saying that the Elite player that is offered the scholarship should consider playing the sport that is getting them into college.

The average HS player should continue to play multiple sports. The couple dozen scholarshipped players will not adversely affect the other sports and will allow more kids an opporitunity to compete for their schools.

Again, we're talking about the Elite, recruited athletes here that a college coach has a vested interest in. Is it better to have that coach tell a player he should go to play Juniors his senior year or tell them they can stay home and specialize in the sport that got them the scholarship. If they leave and play Juniors, they cannot play another sport anyway.

komada77 wrote:My question for Lucia is does he think players like Zach Budish would be as good at hockey had they not played football? The two sports are very similar when you think about it. Both are very physical, require a huge time commitment and a ton of hard work both on and off the field or ice. In my mind, football creates better hockey players and hockey creates better football players.

Here here, mulitple sports have realy hurt guys like Joe Maure, Anders Lee and Larry Fitzgerald. I think they are who they are because they played multiple sports.

komada77 wrote:My question for Lucia is does he think players like Zach Budish would be as good at hockey had they not played football? The two sports are very similar when you think about it. Both are very physical, require a huge time commitment and a ton of hard work both on and off the field or ice. In my mind, football creates better hockey players and hockey creates better football players.

Alright, and he's a senior in high school. He's already been created. Of course Lucia is going to want his recruits to focus on hockey when they make a commitment to his program.

Goldy Gopher wrote:

komada77 wrote:My question for Lucia is does he think players like Zach Budish would be as good at hockey had they not played football? The two sports are very similar when you think about it. Both are very physical, require a huge time commitment and a ton of hard work both on and off the field or ice. In my mind, football creates better hockey players and hockey creates better football players.

Alright, and he's a senior in high school. He's already been created. Of course Lucia is going to want his recruits to focus on hockey when they make a commitment to his program.

Thats my point Goldy, Lucia was talking about a committed recruit of the Gopher hockey team, not Joe Schmo from Timbuck-Too. I'm sure "The Don" couldn't have cared less if you played multiple sports. But then again, neither did your HS coach. I thik he encouraged you

How does playing another sport mean you are not "focus[ing] on hockey" or "commit[ting] fully to that program"? That is what you keep ignoring. I, and others, are saying that playing other sports is beneficial and giving reasons along with citing examples of it being a good thing. You are not showing that it is being not being committed, simply stating it is and giving no reason.

How is playing football not being fully committed to hockey? It's not.

Seeing as it isn't very hard for Lucia to recruit the best hockey players, because all he has to do is offer a scholarship and most players in Minnesota would die for it, i think many kids will follow his "suggestion". He makes a good point that they don't want to risk recruiting a kid that has a greater chance of getting hurt and possibly missing out on another recruit.

I do on the other hand disagree kids should only play hockey. I think multi-sport athletes are good for schools and the kids themselves. They won't get burned out playing hockey all year long, but will be interesting to see what happens i guess.

whos_it wrote:

komada77 wrote:My question for Lucia is does he think players like Zach Budish would be as good at hockey had they not played football? The two sports are very similar when you think about it. Both are very physical, require a huge time commitment and a ton of hard work both on and off the field or ice. In my mind, football creates better hockey players and hockey creates better football players.

Here here, mulitple sports have realy hurt guys like Joe Maure, Anders Lee and Larry Fitzgerald. I think they are who they are because they played multiple sports.

Didn't that Anders Lee was THAT good.

Is this just because it's football? Isn't former Gopher/current SL Blue Erik Johnson watching this season because he stepped out of a golf cart and tore up his knee?

HShockeywatcher wrote:How does playing another sport mean you are not "focus[ing] on hockey" or "commit[ting] fully to that program"? That is what you keep ignoring. I, and others, are saying that playing other sports is beneficial and giving reasons along with citing examples of it being a good thing. You are not showing that it is being not being committed, simply stating it is and giving no reason.

How is playing football not being fully committed to hockey? It's not.

Because you're more likely to get injured when you're playing another sport vs. when you're not. If Lucia is going to go through the effort of scouting, recruiting and offering a scholarship he doesn't want to throw all his work away because some guy gets hurt playing a secondary sport.

i agree with coach, a player shouldnt play football. not because i think all hockey players should just play one sport, but its too easy to get hurt in football, specifically around the knees. Run cross-country or play baseball if your worried about playing more than one sport. there are other good sports that are good to play in with less likelihood of getting hurt.

whos_it wrote:

komada77 wrote:My question for Lucia is does he think players like Zach Budish would be as good at hockey had they not played football? The two sports are very similar when you think about it. Both are very physical, require a huge time commitment and a ton of hard work both on and off the field or ice. In my mind, football creates better hockey players and hockey creates better football players.

Here here, mulitple sports have realy hurt guys like Joe Maure, Anders Lee and Larry Fitzgerald. I think they are who they are because they played multiple sports.

Not to put you down or anything but you cannot compare anders Lee to Joe Maure and Larry Fitzgerald those two guys did not play Hockey they played basketball although their skills may be better because of playing multiple sports hockey is treated very differently because of the amount of pressure kids are under to play well especially kids like a Budish or a Lee.