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Let's say you had a kid who was good enough to move to the next level as a sophomore...If you could choose, and your kid was good enough, which one of these programs would you send your kid to...

If he only cares about hockey and not about going to college and was good enough to get drafted, I'd send him to the OHL or WHL, but he would have to be able to take the hitting game. Pat Kane is probably the most notable example.

If he wants to go to college, I'd send him to the NTDP, they have a good record of getting their top players drafted and either play in the NAHL or play against D1 and D3 colleges and international tournaments. This year, Jordan Schroeder is so good because he has already played against top college competition last year.

This topic has been discussed several times before. I imagine it will come up again in the future as parents and kids look at difficult decisions.

If this is your kid, seek a lot of advice from hockey insiders/experts. There are kids like Schroeder and Kristo that have excelled by going away from home. There are a lot of kids that go south after leaving.

Talk to neutral people that are removed from the opportunity. Otherwise you will hear slanted rhetoric.

Besides expert advice, I feel the kid needs to be physically mature (a man) and mentally mature before consideration to leave high school and his friends is made.

itsmorefun wrote:Let's say you had a kid who was good enough to move to the next level as a sophomore...If you could choose, and your kid was good enough, which one of these programs would you send your kid to...

There is not one "right" answer. It depends on a variety of circumstances revolving around his current environment (HS coaching, etc) and what his long term goals are.

If he were my kid, I would try to talk him into playing highschool hockey, get him into a private school like Hill- Murray, AHA, or BSM, where he will get the attention from scouts, and will be able to play at the D1 level without losing the highschool experience.

Aaronnessisgod wrote:If he were my kid, I would try to talk him into playing highschool hockey, get him into a private school like Hill- Murray, AHA, or BSM, where he will get the attention from scouts, and will be able to play at the D1 level without losing the highschool experience.

How about Roseau ANG? Scouts found their way to that little town.

If you are a player, scouts will find you even if you live in Moose Jaw.

scouts will find you anywhere, but players will develop more at higher levels. They play against better players in both practices and games and are more focused on hockey.

Don't base it on the fact "Schroeder did it and it worked out" be realistic about your childs true ability. Schroeder was the best player on the ice since he was in squirts.

For every one or two we have heard that have a great Jr experience there are the 4-5 that wash out and could have had a better experience staying in high school. Don't be in such a hrry for your kid to grow up.

I think you move your kid to the level where he will be challenged but yet not overwhelmed. If at all possible I think kids should stay in High school for the experience of playing with your friends, chasing the dream of playing in the State Tourney and for the Support Network of Family, Friends and coaches. However, if a kid has nothing to gain developmentally at that level like Schroeder and Ness then you move them to the next level. But I am afraid way too many parents push their kids to the next level, USHL and so forth before they are ready. Most parents are not really educated on how development works and they think they must always push to the next level. But it is a combination of building condfidence and challenging them. It's ok for a kid to dominate a little at al level to build confidence and then move them to the next level to challenge them. You can only go to High School once, if your kid is that good he will get to the next level in due time.

I watched Schroeder from squirts on up as we played them 3-4 times a year, best kid on the ice by far. I can say he is the exception to any rule, I have yet to see a kid currently playing youth hockey that is as far ahead of his peers as he was.

youngblood08 wrote:Don't base it on the fact "Schroeder did it and it worked out" be realistic about your childs true ability. Schroeder was the best player on the ice since he was in squirts.

For every one or two we have heard that have a great Jr experience there are the 4-5 that wash out and could have had a better experience staying in high school. Don't be in such a hrry for your kid to grow up.

I would say that is true about the USHL and Canadian Juniors, but very few kids wash out from the NTDP program and if your kids is really that good, it is a stepping stone for the U 20 Team and Olympic team.

Also, Boyd and Bjugstad dominate like Schroeder did in high school and I feel like Budish did too, but loved playing with his friends and made the summer a time for the challenges of playing all the top tier competition. While Schroeder is special, he certainly is not quite as special as every makes him out to be. There are others like him, just not every year. I think Kristo is close to as good as him.

I think i would want to urge him into playing his entire high school career. Unless he has won the state tournament every year and has been Mr Hockey, he can always do something better. Colleges will find you whether you are playing High School or playing USHL. Nothing can amount to playing with your friends that you have had for your entire life and for the pride of your community. I would take a Minnesota State Championship over the Clark Cup any day.

scoreboard33 wrote:While Schroeder is special, he certainly is not quite as special as every makes him out to be. There are others like him, just not every year.

I suppose it is somewhat difficult to argue the remark "not quite as special as everybody makes him out to be" given that is a rather abstract statement that cannot be defined with any exactness. That is simply your perception as opposed to a fact.

The kid is the leading scorer among all college freshmen and he is doing it at the age of your typical HS senior. He is also among the top 20 scorers in college hockey at the moment. Then mix that in with being projected as a Top 10 NHL pick despite his small stature (given NHL scouts tend to downgrade smaller players a bit more)...

In other words, I don't think players like that are quite as common as you think.

scoreboard33 wrote:

youngblood08 wrote:Don't base it on the fact "Schroeder did it and it worked out" be realistic about your childs true ability. Schroeder was the best player on the ice since he was in squirts.

For every one or two we have heard that have a great Jr experience there are the 4-5 that wash out and could have had a better experience staying in high school. Don't be in such a hrry for your kid to grow up.

I would say that is true about the USHL and Canadian Juniors, but very few kids wash out from the NTDP program and if your kids is really that good, it is a stepping stone for the U 20 Team and Olympic team.

Also, Boyd and Bjugstad dominate like Schroeder did in high school and I feel like Budish did too, but loved playing with his friends and made the summer a time for the challenges of playing all the top tier competition. While Schroeder is special, he certainly is not quite as special as every makes him out to be. There are others like him, just not every year. I think Kristo is close to as good as him.

Schroeder is a special player ............. end of story.

Stay in high school. If you're good enough, they will find you in high school. Plus, you'll never get to re-live ur high school days. I wouldn't wantto have missed out on my time in HS-it was just a lot of fun.

This reminds me of a question someone asked when I was a freshman at the University of Minnesota. He wondered if it was better to be a 3.5 GPA in Mechanical Engineering or a 3.5 in Chemical Engineering. Of course, just gaining admittance to the engineering program at a large public university is extremely difficult. Completing either with a high grade-point? In either case you'd be very employable.

The end of the story...this dude didn't graduate and struggled throughout his short stay at the U of M.

Anyway, you can't brute-force your way through the hockey funnel. A kid would be well-served on any of those paths.

There is no "right" answer that anyone on this forum can give you. We all have opinions. So I'll give one too..

As a sophomore, I wouldn't move anyone off, unless by age he fits into the Ann Arbor model. There is no way I'd move anyone of that age to the juniors, based on my experiences. Move away his senior year? If the kid is ready physically and emotionally, AND he can't grow in the game by staying where he is. That being said, just like has been stated above, for every success in the juniors, especially that go early, there are 3 "failures".

You have to be VERY truthful to yourself and your son as to his ability. Don't do anything because "you hope" that it works out. Dig deep and ask questions. Go to tryouts. But don't rush it too hard.

I have to add one thing here: MANY dads think that they are going to have their kids play somewhere, and the kid never gets the invitation or doesn't make the team. Don't get your hopes too high unless you have a reason to... Know what I mean?

What are the goals? If you just want to have fun, stay in High school. If you want to be the best player can be then you need to leave high school. There are a few high school players that can go to the next levels, but if they stayed in high school they are not as good as they could be.

High school is not the end all be all. A high school Sr. will skate against players that are on average 1.5 younger than he is. You won't bget better that way.

Find something better if you want to be the best you can be.

Backes uses high school hockey as steppingstone to the NHL


By Steve Carroll - Let's Play Hockey



Spring Lake Park High School is not known as a boys’ hockey powerhouse. In fact, the Panthers have never advanced to the state boys’ hockey tournament.

But that didn’t matter to David Backes, now in his second year with the NHL’s St. Louis Blues, who graduated from Spring Lake Park High School in 2002.

All that mattered to him is that he wanted to play Minnesota high school hockey during his senior year and skate with his buddies.

“We were a .500 team and we lost our second game in sections,” recalled Backes. “But we had such a great time together and just made memories that you will never forget.”

Backes did play about 30 games with Lincoln in the USHL before and after his senior year, but he was determined not to leave school early and skip out on his teammates.

“It was definitely a priority of mine to get back to high school for my senior year,” Backes said. “They were guys I had grown up with playing sports with since I was five-years-old. It was kind of our last shebang, just a great group of guys. I wouldn’t give that up for anything.”

Backes made the most of his time with the Panthers, scoring a school record 181 points.

“I played a lot of hockey my senior year,” Backes recalled. “I worked hard every time I was on the ice. I think I definitely developed myself that year too.”

Backes believes playing his senior year in high school, even though his team was not that strong, did not, in any way hurt his hockey development.

“No, not at all,” he said. “I went from a situation in Lincoln where I was a piece of the puzzle to Spring Lake Park where I was kind of the leader of the team. Those are skills that are valuable as a hockey player too.”

On top of that, Backes said those hockey friendships he developed in high school are as strong today as they ever have been.

“I have two guys here tonight that I graduated with,” Backes said recently following an NHL game in St. Paul against the Wild. “One is going to be the best man in my wedding. Their whole families are here. I keep in touch and have stayed together with them. I am six years removed from high school now. I’m still hanging around with the guys I played hockey with.”

Backes, who was a top 10 student in his high school class, encourages hockey players to finish their high school career before going off to juniors.

“I suggest, especially if you have a great group guys, that you have been together for a while, it’s worth it,” Backes said. “Guys are going to tell you can’t develop or anything, but you’ve got juniors after that, you can play another year. It’s not going to hurt you at all. Just playing wherever you are, as long as you are giving it everything you got, you’ll be just fine.”

Playing his senior year in high school certainly didn’t hurt Backes, who earned a college scholarship to Minnesota State Mankato and was drafted by the Blues in the second round of the 2003 draft.

“Being drafted in the second round after that year in juniors was a great feeling,” Backes said. “But as we all know in hockey, to get drafted is just a measuring stick along the road and you got a lot of work to do after that.”

And work he did. Backes was an ironman for the Mavericks. He played on a regular shift, on the power play and killed penalties. He enjoyed a successful three-year career in Mankato where he scored 46 goals and had 73 assists in 115 games.

“I just went there everyday and really tried to take over the games that I was playing,” Backes said. “You know things just started happening in the right direction for me and I had the opportunity after my junior year to come here.”

Here being the St. Louis Blues of the National Hockey League, an organization he joined after his junior season with the Mavericks.

“You call it a job, you call it work,” Backes said. “But really, you’re playing a kid’s game and they are paying you pretty well to do it. So some days it’s tough to go to the rink and really play hard and practice hard, but you realize the opportunity you have. People dream of this. I think of all of the other things I could be doing. Just puts it all in perspective. It’s nothing I’m taking for granted and I love being here.”

“David Backes is a player we’ve talked about being your prototypical power forward, playing hard all the time,” explained St. Louis Head Coach Andy Murray, “and being difficult to play against, playing a direct and forceful game.”

The Blues enjoy having this Minnesota high school hockey player on its roster.

This is a loaded question with many implications. So many of them kids in high school never consider, while parents can.

The big plus of staying at your high school is getting to play multiple sports and being a good player on the team.

If you go to Shattuck you are signing up for a lifestyle much different than any other. You are playing hockey year round and have a very structured academic life too.

If you have the opportunity to go to the NDTP, take it. In your time there you will be playing hockey year round. You will play a schedule against top teams around the world on the U17 team then on the U18 team you will play against D1 and D3 colleges around the country.

Juniors, in my opinion, should only be for players after high school who would like (or are asked to) get more experience before playing at the next level. Leaving is silly. Juniors players are all that much bigger and have that much more experience under their belts, why join them before you do?

Jordan Schroeder is an exception to every rule. While at St Thomas there were few games he played in he wasn't the best player on the ice and he was just barely a teenager. On the NDTP U17 team he was the leading scorer then played some U18 games that year and was the U18 leading pts/gm player and was the following year. Now he's doing great things. If you are as good as him and unless you get hit by a bus in the next couple years you have a future in the NHL, play at the highest level you can. While it was disappointing as a fan of the school he played for to see him go, it was what was best for him and he excelled. The NDTP is for the best of the best and the players who are committed to hockey very much.

Another thing to consider is the future of the person. Playing college hockey is a great goal. But very few people who play college hockey play pro hockey. So the athlete needs to decide what he wants hockey to do for him. You can use hockey to help you attend some very nice schools and get a very nice education. Another thing Shattuck offers is a great education system.

On the other hand if you don't think that professional hockey is where you will end up, you want to excel at hockey but also play other sports, you can stay in high school, play multiple sports, stay in your community, attend nice D3 schools and play multiple sports.

It's all about what the player want, their abilities and what they are capable of. If it is purely about hockey and you are able to attend the NDTP that is a great opportunity but the reality is that most do not have that opportunity.

Gopher Blog wrote:

scoreboard33 wrote:While Schroeder is special, he certainly is not quite as special as every makes him out to be. There are others like him, just not every year.

I suppose it is somewhat difficult to argue the remark "not quite as special as everybody makes him out to be" given that is a rather abstract statement that cannot be defined with any exactness. That is simply your perception as opposed to a fact.

The kid is the leading scorer among all college freshmen and he is doing it at the age of your typical HS senior. He is also among the top 20 scorers in college hockey at the moment. Then mix that in with being projected as a Top 10 NHL pick despite his small stature (given NHL scouts tend to downgrade smaller players a bit more)...

In other words, I don't think players like that are quite as common as you think.

I agree with and my statement was based on my perception of how people are referring to him and is purely an opinion.

He is very good, but he is treated like a player that no player can even be compared with and the players who have their choice of Canadian Junior A, NTDP and the USHL to begin their sophomore year are pretty special players themselves. I'd say the only player who will have that choice is coming up is Boyd and the only player last year was Bjugstad. They are special and if they keep developing could have a Schroeder like impact and be drafted as high or higher than he gets.

Aaronnessisgod wrote:If he were my kid, I would try to talk him into playing highschool hockey, get him into a private school like Hill- Murray, AHA, or BSM, where he will get the attention from scouts, and will be able to play at the D1 level without losing the highschool experience.

Yeah this works all and well If you can make the transfer before the kid starts highschool. Keep the kids at home where they will develop just fine. (I mean if your kid is born in moose jaw he most likly wont be attending any of the private schools that were listed.) But I feel strongly that if your kid is good enough to attend the likes of Shattuck or the NDTP they should go. Thats really not up for argument though. Sorry guys.

Thanks for all the replies... Here's the problem...many people wrote that I should seek advice... but that's the problem - everyone has an invested interest - it's hard to find neutral people. If you ask someone who likes juniors, they'll tell you to play juniors; if you ask someone from Shattuck, they'll say Shattuck; and of course the NDTP people think their program is the best. I agree it's all probably a wash, but how do you really find out?

I want to know which program develops players the best in order for the best experience possible at the college level. Just because someone goes from high school to college doesn't mean that they will excel there - maybe that person should have went to juniors before they left for college or should have played in the NDTP and experienced that...if that was an option... Which one of these DEVELOPS the best players? Just thought I'd keep this discussion going.... it's a lot of good information.

itsmorefun wrote:
I want to know which program develops players the best in order for the best experience possible at the college level.

For some it is best to play HS hockey in Minnesota, enjoy a stint in the USHL post-HS, and then go to college.

For others it is better to fast-track.

If the goal is to be the best college player possible, I say play Juniors until you age out and then go. Older = better.

So much of the hockey discussion assumes other important variables are ignored. Academics, fun, and preparing for the rest of your life also should warrant consideration.

O-townClown's last comment is what I was trying to get at. If you are ignoring all the other aspects of life, then the answer is different.

This is really a tough question to answer. Obviously the NDTP is probably the best and produces all around the best players, simply because they are used to playing against and with top notch players and none of them will have played their last years before college will a cake schedule, so they won't come from a team that plays ahead all the time.
But, the NDTP takes players who are already quite developed and makes them better; only the elite have the option.

If it is about DEVELOPING only, then MSHSL hockey is probably the best if you are on a decent team you plays a semi-difficult schedule. Players of all abilities can play against players of all abilities and learn the game.

If it is developing a player who is already developed, then a prep school is a good option.

And like O-townClown said, playing Juniors as long as possible (assuming you don't get injured) will make you the best player possible. This option also provides the possibility for skipping college, as some players make the jump to the NHL.