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Ok, THIS IS NOT A NEGATIVE posting, but, do you feel that the quality of all Minnesota hockey is a little down this year?? From what it sounds from everyone posting comments Edina is great but from then on, no one can say that anyone is better than anyone else and the team there comparing them to shouldn't be "ranked" high because they have no important wins? I don't know, I could be wrong, but, what do you think? Is the state going through a rebuilding year?

I wouldn't say "Rebuilding" I think it's just the opposite. There are a lot of real strong players and a smaller group of the dominate players. You have Danny Mattson that can control a game but Edina has 5-6 that can change a game. So less 5 star players and a lot more 4 star players. So the few 5 stars don't look as dominatant.

These are vague oversimplifications, but..

"Up"
Holy Angels
Jefferson
Eden Prairie
Wayzata
Centennial
Duluth East
Elk River

"Down"
Burnsville
Hill (a tiny bit)
Minnetonka (also a tiny bit)
BSM
Roseau
Grand Rapids
Cloquet

No major change
Edina
CDH
Woodbury
Blaine
WBL
Moorhead

With a simple, crude survey, I wouldn't say AA is down. The two northern sections, Duluth East aside, are noticeably down. Otherwise, I think it's just a case of parity this year, which has prevented anyone, other than Edina maybe, from pulling away from the field.

I see this same post every year. High School Hockey is not down, nor is the quality of the players. But, every year, some teams improve based on their enrollment of hockey players, and others are down. St. Francis with Benik in goal - and the other one who scores some points are up. Breck - definitely up. Jefferson - up. Duluth Marshall down. Edina - up. Blake - down. SPA and Norwich, up. It is cyclical - some teams are building programs, while others may be tailing off.

I hear this every year from players and parents of players who have graduated. They seem to think that the hockey was better when the were playing or watching h.s. hockey. It even happens when you go back and watch a SQ or PW game after your kid has left that level for a year or two.

Pucklvr wrote:Ok, THIS IS NOT A NEGATIVE posting, but, do you feel that the quality of all Minnesota hockey is a little down this year?? From what it sounds from everyone posting comments Edina is great but from then on, no one can say that anyone is better than anyone else and the team there comparing them to shouldn't be "ranked" high because they have no important wins? I don't know, I could be wrong, but, what do you think? Is the state going through a rebuilding year?

I think what we are really seeing is parity, not a decrease in quality.
That actually makes watching much more fun.

WayOutWest wrote:

Pucklvr wrote:Ok, THIS IS NOT A NEGATIVE posting, but, do you feel that the quality of all Minnesota hockey is a little down this year?? From what it sounds from everyone posting comments Edina is great but from then on, no one can say that anyone is better than anyone else and the team there comparing them to shouldn't be "ranked" high because they have no important wins? I don't know, I could be wrong, but, what do you think? Is the state going through a rebuilding year?

I think what we are really seeing is parity, not a decrease in quality.
That actually makes watching much more fun.

I'd agree that there is more parity, but I also think that they quality has gone down. LAst year, there were Roseau, Burnsville, Edina, Hill Murray, BSM and Minnetonka, who were all very strong and had legitimite shots at being the best in the state. This year there are many more teams that could be argued as the best in the state, but I dont think there are any that are the quality of the top teams last year.

Definetly down up north.

Yeah I agree with the level of play on the Iron Range is down. I watched a couple Virginia Games and the level of play has gone down dramatically. I also think that all the Range teams level of play has gone down too which is disapointing.

its from all the top players last year, leaving there senior year to go play for juniors, or college teams

bigcarl wrote:its from all the top players last year, leaving there senior year to go play for juniors, or college teams

such as?

I would totally agree, I think that the quality of hockey in the state has gone down so dramatically. I watched many games in the Schwan cup and the pace of play look slow. Even in the games between highly ranked teams. I think this is related to kids getting so much training that they get tired of playing. All of the kids playing varsity for top teams have played so much, year round, without break. I think that after awhile they just get worn out and start to not care or love the game as much. This leads to a lack in effort, or aside from not caring, the kids just kid tired and need a break. If they got a day or two off every couple of weeks I think we would see the play improve. On another note, I do not think people see the play as worse because their kid is not playing anymore. Nothing has changed for me since last year, and I still see the play being far worse than in years past. I believe that the best hockey played in Minnesota that i can remember was about 4 or 5 years ago.

I kinda agree too that the level of play this year seems to be down. Just my opinion, maybe its the games that ive watched im not sure but i agree with that assessment.

I will acknowledge that this state produces some really top end D1 athletes, but the depth is lacking. As I have stated before in posts, with my role in charting goal tenders, this state struggles to produce goalies above USHL or NAHL level. Maybe one a year cracks a D1 program, but it suffers immensely.

I do believe it is very apparent that with the Elite leagues, summer training programs, the camps, that hockey players hit a significant wall in attitude... intensity, and in some cases, skill level.

Too many games... not enough practice time working on the basics.... puck handling skills... simple catching and making passes seems to be a lost art... it seems as though everyone wants to make the Home Run pass across ice, and while the referee is skating the puck to the other end of the ice for the icing face-off, we as scouts, and many of the parents, notice that the pass shoud have gone 15 feet up the other end of the ice...

There's too much ME play and less team play.

And, yes..... I am not a believer in hockey being a 12-month sport, but..... if your child doesn't do it, they may be left behind.

I disagree. I think it's tough to say hockey is down this year, look at the personnel this is a very talented senior class in Minnesota. And it's competitive, any of the top teams can win on any given night.

Hill beats Edina, Tonka beats Hill, Edina beats Tonka, WBL beats Centennial, Centennial beats Hill, Jefferson beats EP, Breck beats Duluth East, Wayzata beats Breck, Duluth East beats Wayzata. The list goes on. I think the talent is quite evenly spread out this year. I wouldn't say Edina has pulled away, they've just got the best team on paper.

And I also disagree with the hockey scout and hockey lover, no problem in taking the summer to improve your game. I think I speak for the majority of hockey players everywhere, no one gets sick of the game we love. Some players just don't play with as much heart, but that's true every year.

You can say they can beat anyone on any given night but that doesn't mean that the quality is there, that is pairity. I agree that pairity is there this year for sure!! So far we kind of see that. Pairity and quality are very different. I am gonna just lay it out on the table, I have watched a lot of hockey this year both on TV and live and I think that hockey is good, I just don't think that hockey is great this year. I do agree with many comments on here. There are a handful of GREAT players and a lot of good players, there is pairity, etc. But, honestly I am scared for that first round of the tourney. Really think about it, the teams that we are talking about as far as being in the top 10 right now, only 4 of them are going to be there at the big show, because, they are all in the same sections. YIKES.

[quote="Pucklvr"]You can say they can beat anyone on any given night but that doesn't mean that the quality is there, that is parity. I agree that parity is there this year for sure!! So far we kind of see that. Parity and quality are very different. I am gonna just lay it out on the table, I have watched a lot of hockey this year both on TV and live and I think that hockey is good, I just don't think that hockey is great this year. I do agree with many comments on here. There are a handful of GREAT players and a lot of good players, there is parity, etc. But, honestly I am scared for that first round of the tourney. Really think about it, the teams that we are talking about as far as being in the top 10 right now, only 4 of them are going to be there at the big show, because, they are all in the same sections. YIKES. [/img]

Pucklvr wrote:You can say they can beat anyone on any given night but that doesn't mean that the quality is there, that is pairity. I agree that pairity is there this year for sure!! So far we kind of see that. Pairity and quality are very different. I am gonna just lay it out on the table, I have watched a lot of hockey this year both on TV and live and I think that hockey is good, I just don't think that hockey is great this year. I do agree with many comments on here. There are a handful of GREAT players and a lot of good players, there is pairity, etc. But, honestly I am scared for that first round of the tourney. Really think about it, the teams that we are talking about as far as being in the top 10 right now, only 4 of them are going to be there at the big show, because, they are all in the same sections. YIKES.

Is parity the word of the week or something? Maybe by some odd chance, parity isn't created by the quality being worse, but by the equality [the definition of parity] being more apparent. I guess that's where our opinions differ.

Like most of us here, I have watched a lot of hockey, and I don't see this lack of quality in the games. Can someone please back me up or am I really missing it?

We realize what parity is, you are right it is the equality, but we are saying is that the equality of all the teams isn't as high as the equality of teams were last year.
I can't back you up for how you feel. BUT, I am not going to knock you either. I am glad that you feel hockey is good. Because no matter what Minnesota High School hockey will always be the best.

That is exactly what i was gonna say too Pucklvr regarding parity. While I realize the high school hockey here produces the most talent (usually) year after year, i think this year the depth lacks compared to other years. There are top tier players this year dont get me wrong, like there always will be in MN, with Leddy, Pitlick, Mattson, Lee, Everson, etc. i just thought that more than most in recent years some of the teams appear to be down (again just my perception)

Papa Bergundy wrote:I disagree. I think it's tough to say hockey is down this year, look at the personnel this is a very talented senior class in Minnesota. And it's competitive, any of the top teams can win on any given night.

Hill beats Edina, Tonka beats Hill, Edina beats Tonka, WBL beats Centennial, Centennial beats Hill, Jefferson beats EP, Breck beats Duluth East, Wayzata beats Breck, Duluth East beats Wayzata. The list goes on. I think the talent is quite evenly spread out this year. I wouldn't say Edina has pulled away, they've just got the best team on paper.

And I also disagree with the hockey scout and hockey lover, no problem in taking the summer to improve your game. I think I speak for the majority of hockey players everywhere, no one gets sick of the game we love. Some players just don't play with as much heart, but that's true every year.

You may not have understood my point. If the vast majority of players are playing year-round, why isn't the skill level of fundamental hockey better? Are you really improving your game?? And those that don't play with as much heart is probably because they have hit the wall... and I stated that some times players just hit the wall with skill level. It doesn't matter how much extra ice. I have seen players train with Bernie and Diane Ness to improve skills, but when it translates to game play?? They wasted money.

My comment also included that if "you don't play year-round, you get left behind." I am not saying you shouldn't. I am just not a big believer. I think every kid needs two months off the ice at the end of the season, and spend it in the weight room, so that when summer rolls around, the excitement to lace the skates is there.

While I see your points Papa Bergundy, I have to agree with the scout. I don't see the creativity or the love of the game - I do see a lot of selfish play or players worrying about being point leaders or gunning for Mr. Hockey.

I agree it's best to take some time off in the summers even if it's a few weeks at a time - lift weights, go to the cabin, etc. I think the better hockey players are multi sport athletes like Mr. Budish. There are many very skilled players in MN and it's fun to watch them but I have to agree - I think the level of quality players is down over the past few years and may continue to travel south with people like Bernie McBain and his hockey factory mentality.

Good points on this topic. Good discussion.

i think some who think that hockey is down this year need to broaden their horizons - and start watching some teams other than the usual Hill, Edina, Duluth Marshall, etc. There are some up and coming programs with some good players. Maybe not so many stacked teams - could be seeing the results of the MSHSL transfer rules??? But - the players are still there - just need to look a little harder for them.

hockeyboys wrote:i think some who think that hockey is down this year need to broaden their horizons - and start watching some teams other than the usual Hill, Edina, Duluth Marshall, etc. There are some up and coming programs with some good players. Maybe not so many stacked teams - could be seeing the results of the MSHSL transfer rules??? But - the players are still there - just need to look a little harder for them.

Good point that we could be seeing the results of the MSHSL transfer program, I also think the individual talent is still out there but just spread out among so many private schools and kids staying put in there home towns because of the transfer rule instead of moving to other teams to make super teams. Like one person commented this could effect the first round of the tournament but if you want to see tournament quality hockey then get out there and watch the section finals.

I think that the players are just as talented...but much more selfish. Not as much passing, seems to me every Dman in the state wants to rush the puck end to end. Everyone is looking to score by themselves. Not as many pretty passing plays. Just my opinion.