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Hip hip hooray! The first topic in the all new all girls youth forum!

I've asked the question before, but maybe it will get a little bit more attention now that it's in it's proper place....

I'm fairly new to girls hockey, and my daughter is getting to that age. She spent a year in the Showcase AAA program, but quite frankly, I was disappointed with the lack of focus on development. She had a great time with the girls she met and the tournaments were fine and dandy... but with a game to practice ratio of right around 1:1, I just don't think we got a real good bang for the buck. There must be some programs out there that fill this niche... keeping the focus on improving while providing a fun experience.

Through some digging, I've found that there are some independent programs. Magicians. Blades. Ice Cougars (sisters of the Icemen).

What else is there? Can anybody shed some light on these or any other programs? How do they compare with Showcase? How are the teams formed? Etc, etc...

Thanks!!!

It all depends on what you are looking for. I found that at the ages U10-U14 off season programs like OS and CODP are very effective for development. My daughter really loves OS. The training is motivating and demanding at the same time relaxed and enjoyable. Having strong, talented and knowledgeable female instructors can be invaluable for young girls. Most of the top metro players participated in one of these two programs. Independent AAA teams are also good since the talent level is generally better across the board then with your association team or structured leagues. But your placement should be dictated by skill level. You always want to try to play with your peers (from a talent and interest position that is). The rule I always used for my daughter was for training purposes you want to be at the bottom end in terms of skill level. This gives the player a reference to shoot for and will be ensured of getting pushed. As far as teams go I feel you must be at least in the top 20% (give or take) of one level before advancing beyond your specified age level. When playing games (for development purpose) my experience tells me you don’t want to dominate but you also don’t want to be overwhelmed either. The teams you have listed are generally having the top flight talent. Coaching is always the first thing to consider followed by the players and lastly location the team is situated out of (practice rinks). Keep in mind these teams are very much coveted, you either have to have the skills necessary or be connected somehow. Most of these teams have web sites. Check them out and if it looks like a good match ask for a tryout or for an evaluation. The hockey community isn’t really that small. If your daughter has the skills necessary someone will find you, believe me. Like I said programs like Os or tournaments like Selects and Elites gives your player the platform they may need to get noticed. Good luck.

hockeyheaven wrote:It all depends on what you are looking for. I found that at the ages U10-U14 off season programs like OS and CODP are very effective for development. My daughter really loves OS. The training is motivating and demanding at the same time relaxed and enjoyable. Having strong, talented and knowledgeable female instructors can be invaluable for young girls. Most of the top metro players participated in one of these two programs. Independent AAA teams are also good since the talent level is generally better across the board then with your association team or structured leagues. But your placement should be dictated by skill level. You always want to try to play with your peers (from a talent and interest position that is). The rule I always used for my daughter was for training purposes you want to be at the bottom end in terms of skill level. This gives the player a reference to shoot for and will be ensured of getting pushed. As far as teams go I feel you must be at least in the top 20% (give or take) of one level before advancing beyond your specified age level. When playing games (for development purpose) my experience tells me you don’t want to dominate but you also don’t want to be overwhelmed either. The teams you have listed are generally having the top flight talent. Coaching is always the first thing to consider followed by the players and lastly location the team is situated out of (practice rinks). Keep in mind these teams are very much coveted, you either have to have the skills necessary or be connected somehow. Most of these teams have web sites. Check them out and if it looks like a good match ask for a tryout or for an evaluation. The hockey community isn’t really that small. If your daughter has the skills necessary someone will find you, believe me. Like I said programs like Os or tournaments like Selects and Elites gives your player the platform they may need to get noticed. Good luck.

I agree OS is excellent - haven't done CODP but my daughter loved OS and when she started she was at the bottom of the group she was in and she progressed as it went along. She is definitely a better hockey player because of it.

What/where are CODP & OS?

http://codpmn.com

http://skaterslink.com/09/

The Bone wrote:What/where are CODP & OS?

OS summer training is in the north metro and south metro - north training is held at the Super Rink and Fogerty. I'm not sure about the south.

HockeyMom5 wrote:

The Bone wrote:What/where are CODP & OS?

OS summer training is in the north metro and south metro - north training is held at the Super Rink and Fogerty. I'm not sure about the south.

OS summer training in the South metro is at Bloomington. My daughter has participated in OS for years. I think its a great program, especially for the younger (U10-U14) skater.

My opinion: if you're going to do AAA and an STP, it's fine if the AAA team is not development-heavy and is more for fun. Do you really want your 11-year-old to have to work her tail off all summer on the rink? There has to be some fun and that's what AAA can offer--maybe an out-of-town tournament or two (the Showcase teams can go to Breezy Point for free) and getting to know a new group of kids can be enjoyable.

For STP, (my daughter has done both) I'd pick OS. The sooner she gets to know Winny (and vice-versa) the better.
Be careful about buying into all the CODP Olympic-connection hype as the price rises quickly. The name and the name of Dr. Blatherwick have been franchised out to the highest bidder. Any connection now to anything Olympic is in name only--it's a privately-run for profit enterprise. The program itself and instructors are still very good, no complaints--but guess who helped develop the program back in its infancy? That's right, Winny Brodt.

Cyclone Hockey Academy is a unique AAA training program concentrating on overall skill development.

http://www.cyclonehockeyacademy.com

More tryouts on February 16th, 2009 for U10 and U12 Teams
(President's Day)

Tryouts and All practices will be @ Super Rink in Blaine, MN

info@cyclonehockeyacademy.com

With two boys and one girl (who is by far the most dedicated of my bunch), I used to struggle to find quality, development-focused summer outlets for my daughter. The great news is there is a growing array of options. Recognizing that the biggest growth area in the hockey industry is girl's hockey, many of the boy-focused programs have added top-notch girl's programs. You mentioned a few with the Ice Cougars (female side of the Icemen program), the Blades, and Showcase. In my view you are correct that Showcase offers a solid product for those looking mostly for game and tournament action, but does not focus much effort on development.

While also offering games and tournaments, the Ice Cougars and Blades have more of a development focus (typically 2 or 3 to 1 in terms of practices to games). Also check out the Minnesota Edge program (minnesotaedge.com), which has 1997 and 1998 girls' programs. The Edge is teamed with the Hockey Development Center in Lakeville. Skate to Excellence, which is teamed with Acceleration, trains in Blaine and offers U10 and U12 teams. The Cyclone AAA program also trains in Blaine and probably has the most development focus of all the summer AAA programs I've seen. And finally, St. Croix AAA offers a handful of teams at the U10 and U12 levels. That said, while focused on development, I understand St. Croix is more AA than AAA.

The number of camps and clinics is also growing. You mentioned Os, which is excellent. There is also Total Hockey, Minnesota Made, Top Dog, Skate to Excellence, Darwitz, and the U of M. Just like adding this new forum for girl's hockey, the times they are a changin'.

jollyroger wrote:My opinion: if you're going to do AAA and an STP, it's fine if the AAA team is not development-heavy and is more for fun. Do you really want your 11-year-old to have to work her tail off all summer on the rink? There has to be some fun and that's what AAA can offer--maybe an out-of-town tournament or two (the Showcase teams can go to Breezy Point for free) and getting to know a new group of kids can be enjoyable.

For STP, (my daughter has done both) I'd pick OS. The sooner she gets to know Winny (and vice-versa) the better.
Be careful about buying into all the CODP Olympic-connection hype as the price rises quickly. The name and the name of Dr. Blatherwick have been franchised out to the highest bidder. Any connection now to anything Olympic is in name only--it's a privately-run for profit enterprise. The program itself and instructors are still very good, no complaints--but guess who helped develop the program back in its infancy? That's right, Winny Brodt.

This brings up a discussion that we had on the HS side a while ago. I understand what you are saying JollyRoger and I respect your opinion but I have a little different take on all of this. You ask, "Do you really want your 11-year-old to have to work her tail off all summer on the rink?". In my opinion the questions should be: (1) Does your 11-year old daughter really want to work her tail off all summer at the rink? and (2) Can I really afford all of this?

Each girl and her parents situations are different. First of all there is the girl. My daughter could never get enough. She constantly begs me to give her more hockey opportunities. I have watched her and listened to her and she has never said I don't want to go to practice today and I have rarely observed her giving less than 100% effort. Being at the rink a lot I see lots of girls that really don't want to be there. Its pretty obvious that its the parent that is driving the girl. I've seen many girls at OS skipping the dryland portion of the program. Their parents don't know that they just go inside and hang out in the cool rink rather than work hard in the hot sun. Unfortunately some of these parents blame the program for not properly developing their girl as an elite player when it is the girls own interest, talent and inner drive that best determines the result.

Additionally, in these difficult times money can be a factor. You can easily spend thousands of dollars on summer hockey. Just add up the direct cost and the indirect costs of gas, depreciation on your car, etc. Camps and clinics are great but lots of what they teach can be practiced at home. Shooting and stickhandling can be done at home or at some rinks for free. During the summer my daughter shoots a couple of hundred pucks 5-7 days a week and stickhandles just as much. If a girl has the drive to stickhandle and shoot on her own during the summer (without being told), you will realize how important hockey is to her. It might just tell you if it is worth the money to spend on camps and clinics.

Phish12 wrote:With two boys and one girl (who is by far the most dedicated of my bunch), I used to struggle to find quality, development-focused summer outlets for my daughter. The great news is there is a growing array of options. Recognizing that the biggest growth area in the hockey industry is girl's hockey, many of the boy-focused programs have added top-notch girl's programs. You mentioned a few with the Ice Cougars (female side of the Icemen program), the Blades, and Showcase. In my view you are correct that Showcase offers a solid product for those looking mostly for game and tournament action, but does not focus much effort on development.

While also offering games and tournaments, the Ice Cougars and Blades have more of a development focus (typically 2 or 3 to 1 in terms of practices to games). Also check out the Minnesota Edge program (minnesotaedge.com), which has 1997 and 1998 girls' programs. The Edge is teamed with the Hockey Development Center in Lakeville. Skate to Excellence, which is teamed with Acceleration, trains in Blaine and offers U10 and U12 teams. The Cyclone AAA program also trains in Blaine and probably has the most development focus of all the summer AAA programs I've seen. And finally, St. Croix AAA offers a handful of teams at the U10 and U12 levels. That said, while focused on development, I understand St. Croix is more AA than AAA.

The number of camps and clinics is also growing. You mentioned Os, which is excellent. There is also Total Hockey, Minnesota Made, Top Dog, Skate to Excellence, Darwitz, and the U of M. Just like adding this new forum for girl's hockey, the times they are a changin'.

In regards to AAA, each level of girls from U10 up have their top teams. The top teams will find your daughter if they think she is good enough. There's no sense in tracking down the organizers. AAA is cutthroat and the top teams generally cut players every year to try to get better. If your daughter is one of the weaker players its a good chance that she will be the first one cut when a "better" player becomes available.

My suggestion is that if your daughter is not invited to play, then get together with some friends and form your own team. Its not rocket science. You just need to get 10-15 skaters, a goalie, a couple of coaches, get everyone to agree to number of tournaments and practices and to share the costs. Then have everyone sign liability waivers, get a substantial downpayment (around 75%) up front, buy jerseys, sign up for tourneys, buy some ice and away you go. Its pretty easy once you get started.

There's a new team forming in the Sounthwest Metro for Summer 09. It will be based out of the Chaska rink, and will be primarily focused on development, with only a few tournaments on the schedule. The coaches have excellent backgrounds in playing and coaching, and have put together a very solid (and pretty intense) practice plan. The team is mostly full, but they are looking to add 4-5 girls. They are looking for high-level players in the Southwest suburbs. These should be 96-year girls (first year U12), they're really not looking for 97's, but might make an exception. Players should be A level. Almost all the first-year 12A's from Edina are on the team, plus some kids from Apple Valley and one from another association (which I can't remember).

If you have some interest, PM me and I can hook you up with the managers and coach and you can contact them. They are planning on being somewhat selective.


Nickel, I remember you contacted me about this - if you already went down this road, sorry for the repost, but I'm also taking the opportunity to repost the opening...

OntheEdge wrote:
......
Each girl and her parents situations are different. First of all there is the girl. My daughter could never get enough. She constantly begs me to give her more hockey opportunities. I have watched her and listened to her and she has never said I don't want to go to practice today and I have rarely observed her giving less than 100% effort. Being at the rink a lot I see lots of girls that really don't want to be there. Its pretty obvious that its the parent that is driving the girl. I've seen many girls at OS skipping the dryland portion of the program. Their parents don't know that they just go inside and hang out in the cool rink rather than work hard in the hot sun. Unfortunately some of these parents blame the program for not properly developing their girl as an elite player when it is the girls own interest, talent and inner drive that best determines the result.
......

I agree with you generally. But last summer after 4 months of 3 days per week in the STP (started in April) and shooting in the basement every day plus playing AAA, for the first time ever my daughter wore out a little. The one thing she had had enough of was the AAA practices. Luckily on her team the practice-game ratio was about 2-1, and any more than that could have gotten to be like drudgery. And since there is no off-season, for her going forward the summer team has to be less intense. But I guess it is different for every kid.

The top teams will find your daughter if they think she is good enough. [quote]

To often parents feel like they have to say yes to these teams, there are plenty of examples of girls who just played on teams durring the regular season and still became top players.

I think Roseau used to melt all the indoor ice for the summer (except for 2 weeks of camp in July). IMO That is the model to follow, too much of a good thing when kids don't get an off season and another sport or activity.

Something else to ponder.

We find it necessary for our kids to play summer hockey as our Club doesn't give us what we find necessary during the regular season and there's no sign that will change anytime in the future.

If it did, then we wouldn't worry so much about AAA.

"We find it necessary for our kids to play summer hockey as our Club doesn't give us what we find necessary during the regular season and there's no sign that will change anytime in the future."

Can you expand on this? Not an attack by any means just wondering what people are not getting from the associations that the other teams are providing. From the expanding number of teams your obviously not alone.

I can't be holier than thou on this, we have said no to AAA but my goalie daughter does camps, clinics, pick up, and Stauber year round. That suplemental goalie coaching is the gap we have with the association.

royals dad wrote:"We find it necessary for our kids to play summer hockey as our Club doesn't give us what we find necessary during the regular season and there's no sign that will change anytime in the future."

Can you expand on this? Not an attack by any means just wondering what people are not getting from the associations that the other teams are providing. From the expanding number of teams your obviously not alone.

Talent, hard work and committment! Some along for the ride and not rising to the occassion. Sure it's about having fun but the experience they're having makes that nearly impossible. It's the typical problems associated with the #'s/participation levels in girls hockey. The only solution appears to be move or play summer hockey. Lastly, every kid is different and for "our" kid this is the best option and may not be for others.

Cyclones has terrific development program. Good ratio of practice/develoment to games.

From my duaghters prospective now Jr in HS.

1) Summer hockey can improve your skills and advance you faster than only playing Girls Youth Hockey in the winter
2) Development will occur at 3 or 4 to 1 practice/dryland to games - look at OS/CODP and the AAA team as a whole. A summer game is no different than winter you are going to have about 10-12 shifts handle the puck about 35 seconds. To improve girls need to be close to and with a puck. 3x3 is great way to really change those numbers and is a much better than traditional AAA teams/games so make sure it is in your approach as there is no where to hide and pace is usually very fast.
3) Our daughter has done CODP and OS the are very different. CODP has had the historical highest concetration of NDP/top HS players - it is a ladder and very much a boot camp approach - not many warm fuzzies - the girls are pushed and there seem to be more injuries that said the girls who are multiple years love it and get significantly better. OS is great for a self motivated kid and the rest will get good instruction and improve - it is really up to the kid to push themselves. It is growing in impact and the coaches are women and mostly all top D1 players so great mentors. Ask parents you will find value in either one.
4) AAA is all about the coaches and philosophy - avoid the for profit programs, get with programs that can tell you how they want to develop your daughter - not the ones that say we are going to win every tournament - summer is a great time to take risks and do different things for many it is a chance to play with girls who all want to get better and have a higher level of skill - sometimes in the winter a really good player has few other players to pass and playmake with this is a value in the summer. Last run if you have a meat head coach who screams at the team or your daughter. Since AAA teams are not USA/MN Hockey aligned you can run into programs who have coaches that can no longer coach youth hockey - don't go there. Last find teams with good famialies who are team focused - don't get with a group who is only there to cheer and support thier kid - all will end up frustrated.

Cyclone Hockey for girls is in its second year for girls in the U10 level. Last year they had a U10 team that played in two tournaments. They had a program for U12 but could not get enough interest and they practiced with the U10 girls. One player on the team made the entire U10 club, and she is a U12 A player. They are in there second year and from what I have heard are a for profit driven program that will coach the likes of who ever is related to the coaches and the association they belong to. Hope all has changed this year and have given their philosophy a different angle to develope all not just a few.

Good luck!

Be careful about buying into all the CODP Olympic-connection hype as the price rises quickly. The name and the name of Dr. Blatherwick have been franchised out to the highest bidder. Any connection now to anything Olympic is in name only--it's a privately-run for profit enterprise. The program itself and instructors are still very good, no complaints--but guess who helped develop the program back in its infancy? That's right, Winny Brodt.

JollyRoger, you must be kidding.

True, the prices have been rising, albeit slightly, for CODP -- the operating costs for such a large program must grow along with increased enrollment of players and the hiring of, as you say, very good coaches -- but the cost per hour of training is still roughly the same or less than other high-profile training camps. Furthermore, I would like to remind you that CODP is actually a NON-PROFIT ENTITY and kindly ask you to refrain from making statements that indicate otherwise; the people at CODP are incredibly hard-working, make very little money (despite what you may think), and devote their time to the CODP program because of their love of the game and their strong belief in Dr. Blatherwick's expertise (who DOES still frequently consult on the operation and content of the program).

I mean no offense to Winny Brodt whatsoever, however she did NOT develop the program from infancy; "developing" and "participating in/attracting attention to" are not the same thing. It would seem that if there are any similarities in the CODP and OS programs, as you seem to suggest, it would be the result of a certain former CODP participant pilfering the training philosophies, techniques, and other materials from the program and turning it into a for-profit entity...

Ms. Conduct wrote:

Be careful about buying into all the CODP Olympic-connection hype as the price rises quickly. The name and the name of Dr. Blatherwick have been franchised out to the highest bidder. Any connection now to anything Olympic is in name only--it's a privately-run for profit enterprise. The program itself and instructors are still very good, no complaints--but guess who helped develop the program back in its infancy? That's right, Winny Brodt.

JollyRoger, you must be kidding.

True, the prices have been rising, albeit slightly, for CODP -- the operating costs for such a large program must grow along with increased enrollment of players and the hiring of, as you say, very good coaches -- but the cost per hour of training is still roughly the same or less than other high-profile training camps. Furthermore, I would like to remind you that CODP is actually a NON-PROFIT ENTITY and kindly ask you to refrain from making statements that indicate otherwise; the people at CODP are incredibly hard-working, make very little money (despite what you may think), and devote their time to the CODP program because of their love of the game and their strong belief in Dr. Blatherwick's expertise (who DOES still frequently consult on the operation and content of the program).

I mean no offense to Winny Brodt whatsoever, however she did NOT develop the program from infancy; "developing" and "participating in/attracting attention to" are not the same thing. It would seem that if there are any similarities in the CODP and OS programs, as you seem to suggest, it would be the result of a certain former CODP participant pilfering the training philosophies, techniques, and other materials from the program and turning it into a for-profit entity...

I would like to learn more about this non-profit CODP. As a developement program for the Olympic & National teams....is it a regional program? The website give a lot of endorsements but I don't see any acknowledgement of the program by USA hockey officials. Is it an official program ?

When it was first set up funds were seeded from the Olympic Committee to form regional Satellite Programs I understand Herb Brooks was involved with this vision - this one was set up in MN Darwitz, Brodt, Wendell most of the early top players went through the program. There was also a program in Mass. but not sure it was ever as successful or prolific. Winny and Ronda Curtain left the program 4 years ago and started OS.

If you are a top young player and you do the program you will get stronger and you will learn to play at a faster speed. Since it is tryout based you have a higher set of skilled players training together - since they push you hard only the kids who want to get better stay. This has developed a good core of top HS players. At age 15 Minnesota girls can tryout for the National Development Program and they can try out again at 16 and at 17, a high percentage of the girls that are selected have come out of CODP program though OS is now challenging. A report is filed by the program to the US Olympic Committee and the Program goes to USA Hockey Meetings though I don't beleive it is USA Hockey affiliated.