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Just curious as to why there is all the doubt about Jefferson, is it solely based on the strenght of thier schedule?
There seems to be a lot of Edina supporters but no one has mentioned the inconsistency even though they have played a stronger schedule they have also been inconsistent in that schedule.

I am new to the board and just trying to get a feel for it.

One of the main reasons why people doubt Jefferson is because of their schedule. I think its the biggest reason but thats just me.

Also, I've heard people say tha Jeffersons goalie Casey O Connor is not very good, but hes one of the top goalies in the state and is winning the award for best senior goalie.

There shouldn't be any doubt - they are a good team. Perhaps, with the injury of one of their top players, re-arranging lines, flu bugs, etc. they had a bad game. Perhaps, a combination of reasons.

They are somewhat limited on what they can do with their schedule. They are year in, year out a good team.

There are NO teams left with 0 losses.

I think the strength of their schedule is over looked a little. I know they haven't played the type of schedule that Edina and some others have played but they can't really help it. The conference is so large right now it only allows for so many non conference games. Even with that they have these games against respectable opponents. For the sake of this I'm just going to use the PS2 ratings for the teams rankings. What they are ranked in AA at least.

#15 Burnsville- W
#31 Chaska- W
#11 Wayzata- W
#30 Lakeville South- W
#23 Apple Valley- W
#3 Eden Prairie- W
#27 Eastview- W
#24 Grand Rapids- W
#15 Burnsville- W
#31 Chaska- W
#30 Lakeville South- W
#23 Apple Valley- W
#20 Eagan- W
#14 Moorhead- W
#3 Eden Prairie- L
#27 Eastview- W
#20 Eagan- TBA

That is 17 total games against the top 31 AA teams in that state (according to PS2), I wouldn't call that a terrible schedule.

Edina played 20 of the top 31 teams in the state for a comparision. I know most of their's was the top end teams but Jefferson couldn't do anything about it because of the conference. Edina had the flexibilty to schedule those teams and they did just that. How come now one says much about AHA? The missota brings their schedule strength down alot.

Don't forget the North Dakota teams that Jefferson beat up on, also.

I think that most of the Jefferson doubts are form their strength of schedule, but it seems that their are only a few vocal doubters and most of the rest of the board thinks that Jefferson deserves to be where they are.

I know that I have mentioned Edina's inconsistency as concerning, but it seems Jefferson is inconsistent also, they just happen to be not be playing as good of teams when they have their bad games and still end up winning.

Also, Jefferson hasn't been on TV this year and it seems like the more TV a good team is on the more recognition they will get, especially with a few posters.

Jefferson doesn't have the firepower that Edina does and doesn't come out and smoke very good teams like Edina has (Blaine, AHA, etc) because they are a more defensive minded team, so Edina gets forgiven for more things more easily because they have games that you can point to where absolutely no one could have beat them.

You do ramble sometimes scoreboard.

The fact is, the jags are a very good team. Unlike Edina, they are a TEAM that relies on more than one line to get it done. As for goaltending, that is Edina's big question mark. We all know that teams can't win in the playoffs without stellar goaltending. That is true at all levels of hockey.

Jags inconsistent? The powder blue boys lost one game. Arguably, their best forward was out for that game. That revelation was noted on Minnhock. Their run was an incredible example of consistency.

breakout wrote:You do ramble sometimes scoreboard.

The fact is, the jags are a very good team. Unlike Edina, they are a TEAM that relies on more than one line to get it done. As for goaltending, that is Edina's big question mark. We all know that teams can't win in the playoffs without stellar goaltending. That is true at all levels of hockey.

Jags inconsistent? The powder blue boys lost one game. Arguably, their best forward was out for that game. That revelation was noted on Minnhock. Their run was an incredible example of consistency.

Siiro is not even close to their best forward, he's probably 4th behind herbert, dietzler, and knight

There's no doubt they are a good team, just not the best in state. Arguably, most of the teams rated in the top 10 would have the same record, or better, with Jefferson's schedule and, in my opinion, have won many of the games with better margins.

Strength of schedule contributes to rankings in all major sports in college and is in most HS hockey ranking systems outside of the opinion ones people make on this forum, why people don't understand that for Jefferson and Little Falls is beyond me.

Coaches/schools are in control of what opponents their team has. If they choose not to play difficult ones, there isn't much that can be proven. If they make it to state from their section, what they couldn't prove with their schedule would be proven, but why a school with a history like Jefferson's would play the schedule they are is way beyond me.

HShockeywatcher wrote:There's no doubt they are a good team, just not the best in state. Arguably, most of the teams rated in the top 10 would have the same record, or better, with Jefferson's schedule and, in my opinion, have won many of the games with better margins.

Strength of schedule contributes to rankings in all major sports in college and is in most HS hockey ranking systems outside of the opinion ones people make on this forum, why people don't understand that for Jefferson and Little Falls is beyond me.

Coaches/schools are in control of what opponents their team has. If they choose not to play difficult ones, there isn't much that can be proven. If they make it to state from their section, what they couldn't prove with their schedule would be proven, but why a school with a history like Jefferson's would play the schedule they are is way beyond me.

Jefferson used it's non-conference games to schedule Moorhead, Wayzata, Grand Rapids, and then the ND teams over the break. It's not like they went out and found the most pathetic teams they could find.

Siiro is not even close to their best forward, he's probably 4th behind herbert, dietzler, and knight[/quote]

You might want to look at the facts:

8 Herbert, Caleb F 21 19 18 37 +23 24 5 7 1 3 5 13 1.462
18 Siiro, A.J. F 21 18 15 33 +34 0 3 1 2 0 1 5 3.600
6 Gallus, T.J. F 22 15 18 33 +31 31 4 3 1 2 1 4 3.750
12 J.Faust, Joe D 22 12 19 31 +35 8 4 13 1 3 4 4 3.000
5 Dietzler, Tyler F 22 10 21 31 +23 18 3 9 4 1 1 6 1.667
4 Pauluk, Jeffrey D 22 7 19 26 +37 4 5 9 1 2 1 2 3.500
16 Knutson, Bjorn F 22 4 14 18 +25 8 0 1 0 0 0 5 .800
25 Knight, Zach F 22 11 5 16 +20 18 3 2 0 0 4 0 .000

Springisintheair wrote:Siiro is not even close to their best forward, he's probably 4th behind herbert, dietzler, and knight

You might want to look at the facts:

8 Herbert, Caleb F 21 19 18 37 +23 24 5 7 1 3 5 13 1.462
18 Siiro, A.J. F 21 18 15 33 +34 0 3 1 2 0 1 5 3.600
6 Gallus, T.J. F 22 15 18 33 +31 31 4 3 1 2 1 4 3.750
12 J.Faust, Joe D 22 12 19 31 +35 8 4 13 1 3 4 4 3.000
5 Dietzler, Tyler F 22 10 21 31 +23 18 3 9 4 1 1 6 1.667
4 Pauluk, Jeffrey D 22 7 19 26 +37 4 5 9 1 2 1 2 3.500
16 Knutson, Bjorn F 22 4 14 18 +25 8 0 1 0 0 0 5 .800
25 Knight, Zach F 22 11 5 16 +20 18 3 2 0 0 4 0 .000[/quote]

Agreed. Siro is way better than Dietzler.

breakout wrote:You do ramble sometimes scoreboard.

The fact is, the jags are a very good team. Unlike Edina, they are a TEAM that relies on more than one line to get it done. As for goaltending, that is Edina's big question mark. We all know that teams can't win in the playoffs without stellar goaltending. That is true at all levels of hockey.

Jags inconsistent? The powder blue boys lost one game. Arguably, their best forward was out for that game. That revelation was noted on Minnhock. Their run was an incredible example of consistency.

I think I ramble more than sometimes, but anyway, I don't think you can use winning to measure consistency. They have had a couple of ggames, as HSHockeywatcher is quick to point out, that they did not play well, while they still won, a good team playing down to an ok or bad team does not make them consistent. But I guess being consistent winners, rather than consistently playing at your highest level is all that matters.

Another ramble.

The51 wrote:

breakout wrote:You do ramble sometimes scoreboard.

The fact is, the jags are a very good team. Unlike Edina, they are a TEAM that relies on more than one line to get it done. As for goaltending, that is Edina's big question mark. We all know that teams can't win in the playoffs without stellar goaltending. That is true at all levels of hockey.

Jags inconsistent? The powder blue boys lost one game. Arguably, their best forward was out for that game. That revelation was noted on Minnhock. Their run was an incredible example of consistency.

Siiro is not even close to their best forward, he's probably 4th behind herbert, dietzler, and knight

come on man usually you usually know what you're talking about, but if you've ever seen the jags play you know that siiro runs that line.

On the consistency note, to be fair.....no team in the State i think can play at their highest level on a game in and game out basis. If all great teams could do that, then we would be watching probably the most epic hockey we can imagine when some of these teams meet up. All great teams (Jefferson, Edina, Centennial etc....) have their down games but what the Jags have done that is remarkable is that besides the EP game, they have been able to turn their down games into victories still. They may not pretty always but a W is a W right?? And when it comes to playoff time that's all that matters......

dynamicD wrote:On the consistency note, to be fair.....no team in the State i think can play at their highest level on a game in and game out basis. If all great teams could do that, then we would be watching probably the most epic hockey we can imagine when some of these teams meet up. All great teams (Jefferson, Edina, Centennial etc....) have their down games but what the Jags have done that is remarkable is that besides the EP game, they have been able to turn their down games into victories still. They may not pretty always but a W is a W right?? And when it comes to playoff time that's all that matters......

Aright, well i'll save highschoolhockeywatcher some time, let me put on my best impression... ahem:

"Yeah a W is a W against bad teams, what happens when they play Edina/Holy Angels/Burnsville??"

Jefferson has already proved they can play with the best as they held (according to some rankings) the #1 team in the state to one goal. When their defense is clicking they're capable of beating anyone. However, against EP round 2, their defense had some holes, so they CAN be vulnerable. I'd be very surprised if Lindquist didn't have the boys whipped into shape come sections, however

Hopefully the EP loss will galvanize the team like the loss against Blake in '94. It only takes 6 wins to take it all, and I don't see any reason they can't put together that kind of run against excellent competition. Best of luck Blue!

Thanks for all the feedback. I am somewhat biased ( I work with Jefferson on thier off ice-trainng) so I was curious what everyone on the outside was feeling. Sectionals will be very interesting and fun ! This is what makes HS hockey so fun is all the different opinions an the uncertainty of it all.

"Jefferson used it's non-conference games to schedule Moorhead, Wayzata, Grand Rapids, and then the ND teams over the break. It's not like they went out and found the most pathetic teams they could find."

2 good teams, Rapids who is having an off year and three mediocre teams. Yes, sweet, they went over and beat up on some ND teams. Every year Superior goes around .500 against the northern MN teams, many of which aren't even top teams in the state, then goes and does well in state in WI. They are a top team there and can't handle our mediocre teams. MN hockey is dominant, we don't need to prove that to anyone else.

Yes, they scheduled decent teams, but those decent teams don't prove they are a top team.

HShockeywatcher wrote:"Jefferson used it's non-conference games to schedule Moorhead, Wayzata, Grand Rapids, and then the ND teams over the break. It's not like they went out and found the most pathetic teams they could find."

2 good teams, Rapids who is having an off year and three mediocre teams. Yes, sweet, they went over and beat up on some ND teams. Every year Superior goes around .500 against the northern MN teams, many of which aren't even top teams in the state, then goes and does well in state in WI. They are a top team there and can't handle our mediocre teams. MN hockey is dominant, we don't need to prove that to anyone else.

Yes, they scheduled decent teams, but those decent teams don't prove they are a top team.

yes it does. those teams are consistently good teams. Also, those .500 teams, are still very good teams, its just the North beats up on itself so much. Jefferson has made it a tradition to schedule top teams. Using your frequently used championship method, GR and Moorhead have been in the state championship the last 3 years. Those programs are almost always great teams, and this year is no exception.

Also, the ND teams, for the most part are decent. Especially Red River, which produces top end hockey players on a yearly basis.

Sooo, to sum up, scheduling those teams, and then beating them, makes you a top team.

hockeyjunkie2 wrote:I think the strength of their schedule is over looked a little. I know they haven't played the type of schedule that Edina and some others have played but they can't really help it. The conference is so large right now it only allows for so many non conference games. Even with that they have these games against respectable opponents. For the sake of this I'm just going to use the PS2 ratings for the teams rankings. What they are ranked in AA at least.

#15 Burnsville- W
#31 Chaska- W
#11 Wayzata- W
#30 Lakeville South- W
#23 Apple Valley- W
#3 Eden Prairie- W
#27 Eastview- W
#24 Grand Rapids- W
#15 Burnsville- W
#31 Chaska- W
#30 Lakeville South- W
#23 Apple Valley- W
#20 Eagan- W
#14 Moorhead- W
#3 Eden Prairie- L
#27 Eastview- W
#20 Eagan- TBA

That is 17 total games against the top 31 AA teams in that state (according to PS2), I wouldn't call that a terrible schedule.

Edina played 20 of the top 31 teams in the state for a comparision. I know most of their's was the top end teams but Jefferson couldn't do anything about it because of the conference. Edina had the flexibilty to schedule those teams and they did just that. How come now one says much about AHA? The missota brings their schedule strength down alot.

Eden Prairie plays in the same conference as Jefferson. They managed to work Edina (twice) and Minnetonka into their schedule. No one can argue that this is a challenging schedule for the likes of Jefferson. They haven't had a real opportunity to prove themselves yet. There are other teams that would be sitting with one loss if they'd played Jefferson's schedule.

"Sooo, to sum up, scheduling those teams, and then beating them, makes you a top team."

You are right, A top team, not THE top team, but A top team.

Look at Hopkins in basketball. They schedule all the top teams in our state in all classes and still win. That is the kind of undefeated season that gets you the top ranking. Playing average/good competition should not.

shakey wrote:

hockeyjunkie2 wrote:I think the strength of their schedule is over looked a little. I know they haven't played the type of schedule that Edina and some others have played but they can't really help it. The conference is so large right now it only allows for so many non conference games. Even with that they have these games against respectable opponents. For the sake of this I'm just going to use the PS2 ratings for the teams rankings. What they are ranked in AA at least.

#15 Burnsville- W
#31 Chaska- W
#11 Wayzata- W
#30 Lakeville South- W
#23 Apple Valley- W
#3 Eden Prairie- W
#27 Eastview- W
#24 Grand Rapids- W
#15 Burnsville- W
#31 Chaska- W
#30 Lakeville South- W
#23 Apple Valley- W
#20 Eagan- W
#14 Moorhead- W
#3 Eden Prairie- L
#27 Eastview- W
#20 Eagan- TBA

That is 17 total games against the top 31 AA teams in that state (according to PS2), I wouldn't call that a terrible schedule.

Edina played 20 of the top 31 teams in the state for a comparision. I know most of their's was the top end teams but Jefferson couldn't do anything about it because of the conference. Edina had the flexibilty to schedule those teams and they did just that. How come now one says much about AHA? The missota brings their schedule strength down alot.

Eden Prairie plays in the same conference as Jefferson. They managed to work Edina (twice) and Minnetonka into their schedule. No one can argue that this is a challenging schedule for the likes of Jefferson. They haven't had a real opportunity to prove themselves yet. There are other teams that would be sitting with one loss if they'd played Jefferson's schedule.

EP was invited to the scwans cup and Jefferson was not....

EP not accepting that invitation is understandable for two reasons:
1. They would probably have to start in the Bronze Cup, which would make their SOS worse.
2. They already play in the Edina Holiday Tournament, which brings 3 other good opponents, and they have 19 conference games. Playing in the Schwan Cup would complete their 25 game season. Most teams would prefer to for sure play Edina, Tonka and Hopkins than take their chances with teams in a bracket. Additionally, this is the first year they've had 19 conf. games instead of 20. Not sure how far in advance they knew.

Why wouldn't Jefferson be invited?
Even in they had to start in Bronze this year, they'd probably win it, and be among great teams in years to come.
-I'm not sure how the procedure of starting in the Schwan Cup works, just guessing here.

HShockeywatcher wrote:EP not accepting that invitation is understandable for two reasons:
1. They would probably have to start in the Bronze Cup, which would make their SOS worse.
2. They already play in the Edina Holiday Tournament, which brings 3 other good opponents, and they have 19 conference games. Playing in the Schwan Cup would complete their 25 game season. Most teams would prefer to for sure play Edina, Tonka and Hopkins than take their chances with teams in a bracket. Additionally, this is the first year they've had 19 conf. games instead of 20. Not sure how far in advance they knew.

Why wouldn't Jefferson be invited?
Even in they had to start in Bronze this year, they'd probably win it, and be among great teams in years to come.
-I'm not sure how the procedure of starting in the Schwan Cup works, just guessing here.

You use the number of conference games as an excuse for EP but not Jefferson. Also I remember you saying Grand Rapids was not a good team to schedule for Jefferson but you seem ok with EP doing the same thing. I'm just not sure I always understand your logic and your point of view.

hockeyjunkie2 wrote:

HShockeywatcher wrote:EP not accepting that invitation is understandable for two reasons:
1. They would probably have to start in the Bronze Cup, which would make their SOS worse.
2. They already play in the Edina Holiday Tournament, which brings 3 other good opponents, and they have 19 conference games. Playing in the Schwan Cup would complete their 25 game season. Most teams would prefer to for sure play Edina, Tonka and Hopkins than take their chances with teams in a bracket. Additionally, this is the first year they've had 19 conf. games instead of 20. Not sure how far in advance they knew.

Why wouldn't Jefferson be invited?
Even in they had to start in Bronze this year, they'd probably win it, and be among great teams in years to come.
-I'm not sure how the procedure of starting in the Schwan Cup works, just guessing here.

You use the number of conference games as an excuse for EP but not Jefferson. Also I remember you saying Grand Rapids was not a good team to schedule for Jefferson but you seem ok with EP doing the same thing. I'm just not sure I always understand your logic and your point of view.

hockeyjunkie----You are not alone. No one understands her thinking or logic except for maybe herself???

I think SHE should go to a Basketball message board since SHE knows so much about it and so little about hockey?