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It makes sense from his perspective. Good luck to him.

Just so I understand this, the Fire hockey team is supposed to be out of Wisconsin and using Wisconsin players, but will now be playing in Edina, MN and coached by the MN Machine coach, who lives in Fairbault, MN. who is not certified and the team will be made up of 99 Minnesota Machine players that live in Minnesota. WOW nothing surprises after this. No wonder WAHA and USA Hockey are at their end wits about the Fire club. What is the Fire board thinking of? This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of.

edgework wrote:Just so I understand this, the Fire hockey team is supposed to be out of Wisconsin and using Wisconsin players, but will now be playing in Edina, MN and coached by the MN Machine coach, who lives in Fairbault, MN. who is not certified and the team will be made up of 99 Minnesota Machine players that live in Minnesota. WOW nothing surprises after this. No wonder WAHA and USA Hockey are at their end wits about the Fire club. What is the Fire board thinking of? This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of.

I can't wait to see the fire change their philosophy about development. I have heard that with BM it is his way or the hiway. That will be tough when he isn't working for himself.

Edge,

Where did you read what you're saying? I just read the news announcement on the Fire Web site (link) and it doesn't say what you claim. Sounds like almost all ice, players and coaches will be from Wisconsin which will be a big change. The 97 Fire practiced almost exclusively in the metro and were made up of mostly metro players. That team will be totally overhauled to comply with what the Web site states. Am I missing something that you know?

[quote="observer"]Edge,

Where did you read what you're saying? I just read the news announcement on the Fire Web site (link) and it doesn't say what you claim. Sounds like almost all ice, players and coaches will be from Wisconsin which will be a big change. The 97 Fire practiced almost exclusively in the metro and were made up of mostly metro players. That team will be totally overhauled to comply with what the Web site states. Am I missing something that you know?[/quote]



[i]Only 3 on a 12 player team need to be from Wiscy, and 4 on a 16 person team. [/i]

"2. Is the percentage of Wisconsin players 25% or more of the players on the roster (a minimum of 3 players of a team of 12; 4 of a team of 16; 5 of a team of 17 or more); while the percentage of Minnesota players less than 75% (as per USA Hockey Annual Guide 2008-09, page 132, IV. TEAM MEMBERSHIP AND REGISTRATION, B. Registration, paragraph 5 – See * below)?


On the otherhand e-work probably realizes that much of the language on the Fire page is almost word for word from a MM marketing page. One could gather both pages are written from the same person.

last years 98 team, exactly how many kids were from wisconsin? How would the team be if it had just wisconsin kids on it?

The teams will not be changing that much from last season. The Fire is just
stating the rules and that they will be following the rules and will verify that each team is following the rules. One thing to remember is that they are now a WAHA Unclassified organization not Tier 1 AAA.

Just remember that USA Hockey will be having their annual meeting in June. I have not seen an agenda,but I would not be surprised if registration is not being discussed since the Central District had some problems with the Fire in the past and the registrar that used to registrar them regardless passed away over a year ago. Should know more in a few weeks.

Any idea if the Fire will field a 95 or 96 team this season?

so what some are saying, as long as the wisconsin fire can have minnesotas best, they will have a team? if waha wants to have their own unclassified team, why don't they just have wisconsin kids then?

I have to plead ignorance on the Fire association as I know nothing about them. This is my take on reading this thread: And I am probably wrong in my assumptions...but here goes... I suspect there is many above average players who play in associations with lesser numbers who struggle to field competitive A level teams but still have a couple two or three A players. I have heard...and this is rumor only...that wisconsin rules are easier...or should I say...have alot more gray area left open for interpretation. With that being said I see no issues with fielding a team of comparable skill level players from several associations involving multiple states based in Somerset Wisconsin. What it really comes down to is what are we trying to achieve for the final product. Are we trying to develop the best kids for our national teams? Than we should adopt USA hockeys National Developopment Program. It appears that is an astounding program....too bad MNHockey is stuck in their association hockey and do not agree. Are we trying to develop for our High school programs? Than we need to let the kids play for the school they attend regardless of where they live....especially at the youth level. Or do we want to just have fun and have rec leagues also known as rinkrat where scores are not kept? My question is how many people like the association model? and how many like the AAA model? And I will venture a guess here that those who play AAA will vote AAA and those who only play association will vote for the short winter season.

It seems like a round about way for MM to get a year round team at the 1999 level. Not sure why this would really surprise any one. I'm surprised it took this long.

Someone may want to let the local associations and Squirt coaches know that they are going to be playing without some of their best players this coming season. It seems that the Chaska, Champlin, and Elk River Associations (No particualr order just few that came to mind) may have a few openings on their Squirt A teams this coming season.....

Hard choice for parents and players, but I feel it is a really good thing....

total wrote:It seems like a round about way for MM to get a year round team at the 1999 level. Not sure why this would really surprise any one. I'm surprised it took this long.

Someone may want to let the local associations and Squirt coaches know that they are going to be playing without some of their best players this coming season. It seems that the Chaska, Champlin, and Elk River Associations (No particualr order just few that came to mind) may have a few openings on their Squirt A teams this coming season.....

Hard choice for parents and players, but I feel it is a really good thing....

Nummy Orange Kool-Aid 12 months a year. Have a great time making your kid chase YOUR DREAMS, make sure to post us in 10 years to let us know where they are all play division one at or better yet probably the Pro's?

Hey "Total" There is no better memory in life than playing hockey with your hometown buddies through the youth ranks all the way up to high school, to deny a child of this opportunity to go play with the Fire is a JOKE

ThePuckStopsHere wrote:
Nummy Orange Kool-Aid 12 months a year. Have a great time making your kid chase YOUR DREAMS, make sure to post us in 10 years to let us know where they are all play division one at or better yet probably the Pro's?

Hey "Total" There is no better memory in life than playing hockey with your hometown buddies through the youth ranks all the way up to high school, to deny a child of this opportunity to go play with the Fire is a JOKE

Wow puckstopshere, I don't think I'd drink it but I'd like to know what's in your koolaid! Typical "your kid plays hockey at a higher level, you must be living through him" crap.

ThePuckStopsHere wrote:

total wrote:It seems like a round about way for MM to get a year round team at the 1999 level. Not sure why this would really surprise any one. I'm surprised it took this long.

Someone may want to let the local associations and Squirt coaches know that they are going to be playing without some of their best players this coming season. It seems that the Chaska, Champlin, and Elk River Associations (No particualr order just few that came to mind) may have a few openings on their Squirt A teams this coming season.....

Hard choice for parents and players, but I feel it is a really good thing....

Nummy Orange Kool-Aid 12 months a year. Have a great time making your kid chase YOUR DREAMS, make sure to post us in 10 years to let us know where they are all play division one at or better yet probably the Pro's?

Hey "Total" There is no better memory in life than playing hockey with your hometown buddies through the youth ranks all the way up to high school, to deny a child of this opportunity to go play with the Fire is a JOKE

That was the absolute best you've experienced in life?

And why is it that you're so concerned about a few kids and parents on a single squad? If it's not you or your kid, move on. (That is, right after you get done re-living all of your personal glory moments that came before you were done with highschool. )

Unless you have some psychic ability, and are able to read the minds and thoughts of the parents of kids who choose to participate in teams like the 99 Machine, Blades, Fire, etc. I don't believe you're in a position to paint them all with the "make your kids chase YOUR DREAMS" tag.

Just because some kids dare to excel outside of the association model, they're automatically in a child-abuse situation? Quick, call social services, or the cops, or maybe your local association board member. Hopefully they'll give you the time you deserve to voice your concerns so that you can feel better about your own personal situation. (That is, if you still have their attention after you get done telling them all about your personal glory days in youth hockey and highschool... the absolute best ever memories in your life.) Hmmm, I wonder if the overzealous tag works both ways? If so, you're a definite candidate.

NOTE: The above was my over-the-top response to your over-the-top knee-jerk assessment of people, that from your comments, you either a) don't know, b) are envious of, and/or c) dislike. If you're honest, you know that there are over-the-top, live-throught-your-kid parents in almost any setting. Your good old community associations included.

hockey_is_a_choice wrote:http://firehockey.pucksystems2.com/page ... 2273/28010

The article paints a somewhat of a grim picture for the Fire Hockey Club.

1. Its still being investigated by a 3 person pannel for rules violations.
2. It lost its Tier 1 AAA status, was given an "Unclassified" designation.
3. Majority? of practices/hours must be at Somerset, not at MM rinks.
4. No home games in MN. All home games in Sommerset only.
5. No spot in the WI State Tier 1 tourney, which means no chance at Regional or National tournaments.

Who and where are they going to play? no MN teams will be allowed to play in Somerset WI! What Tier 1 tournaments will allow an "unclassified" team into their tournament?

If MN Hockey wanted to they could put an end to the Fire this year. A simple sanction for MN teams who play them and the Fire are done, gone. Now is their chance to put a fork in them, If Mn Hockey does nothing then then really must not have a problem with the Fire Hockey Club.

play4fun wrote:

ThePuckStopsHere wrote:

total wrote:It seems like a round about way for MM to get a year round team at the 1999 level. Not sure why this would really surprise any one. I'm surprised it took this long.

Someone may want to let the local associations and Squirt coaches know that they are going to be playing without some of their best players this coming season. It seems that the Chaska, Champlin, and Elk River Associations (No particualr order just few that came to mind) may have a few openings on their Squirt A teams this coming season.....

Hard choice for parents and players, but I feel it is a really good thing....

Nummy Orange Kool-Aid 12 months a year. Have a great time making your kid chase YOUR DREAMS, make sure to post us in 10 years to let us know where they are all play division one at or better yet probably the Pro's?

Hey "Total" There is no better memory in life than playing hockey with your hometown buddies through the youth ranks all the way up to high school, to deny a child of this opportunity to go play with the Fire is a JOKE

That was the absolute best you've experienced in life?

And why is it that you're so concerned about a few kids and parents on a single squad? If it's not you or your kid, move on. (That is, right after you get done re-living all of your personal glory moments that came before you were done with highschool. )

Unless you have some psychic ability, and are able to read the minds and thoughts of the parents of kids who choose to participate in teams like the 99 Machine, Blades, Fire, etc. I don't believe you're in a position to paint them all with the "make your kids chase YOUR DREAMS" tag.

Just because some kids dare to excel outside of the association model, they're automatically in a child-abuse situation? Quick, call social services, or the cops, or maybe your local association board member. Hopefully they'll give you the time you deserve to voice your concerns so that you can feel better about your own personal situation. (That is, if you still have their attention after you get done telling them all about your personal glory days in youth hockey and highschool... the absolute best ever memories in your life.) Hmmm, I wonder if the overzealous tag works both ways? If so, you're a definite candidate.

NOTE: The above was my over-the-top response to your over-the-top knee-jerk assessment of people, that from your comments, you either a) don't know, b) are envious of, and/or c) dislike. If you're honest, you know that there are over-the-top, live-throught-your-kid parents in almost any setting. Your good old community associations included.

Thanks for the book, it was great reading. To answer your question a), b) or c)? That would be d) none of the above. And yes it was one of the best memories I had as a kid, obviously you didn't have that experience.

I'm confused, Isn't your name Play4Fun Anyways have a great time with the Fire

ThePuckStopsHere wrote:

play4fun wrote:

ThePuckStopsHere wrote: Nummy Orange Kool-Aid 12 months a year. Have a great time making your kid chase YOUR DREAMS, make sure to post us in 10 years to let us know where they are all play division one at or better yet probably the Pro's?

Hey "Total" There is no better memory in life than playing hockey with your hometown buddies through the youth ranks all the way up to high school, to deny a child of this opportunity to go play with the Fire is a JOKE

That was the absolute best you've experienced in life?

And why is it that you're so concerned about a few kids and parents on a single squad? If it's not you or your kid, move on. (That is, right after you get done re-living all of your personal glory moments that came before you were done with highschool. )

Unless you have some psychic ability, and are able to read the minds and thoughts of the parents of kids who choose to participate in teams like the 99 Machine, Blades, Fire, etc. I don't believe you're in a position to paint them all with the "make your kids chase YOUR DREAMS" tag.

Just because some kids dare to excel outside of the association model, they're automatically in a child-abuse situation? Quick, call social services, or the cops, or maybe your local association board member. Hopefully they'll give you the time you deserve to voice your concerns so that you can feel better about your own personal situation. (That is, if you still have their attention after you get done telling them all about your personal glory days in youth hockey and highschool... the absolute best ever memories in your life.) Hmmm, I wonder if the overzealous tag works both ways? If so, you're a definite candidate.

NOTE: The above was my over-the-top response to your over-the-top knee-jerk assessment of people, that from your comments, you either a) don't know, b) are envious of, and/or c) dislike. If you're honest, you know that there are over-the-top, live-throught-your-kid parents in almost any setting. Your good old community associations included.

Thanks for the book, it was great reading. To answer your question a), b) or c)? That would be d) none of the above. And yes it was one of the best memories I had as a kid, obviously you didn't have that experience.

I'm confused, Isn't your name Play4Fun Anyways have a great time with the Fire

Glad you enjoyed the jab.

I'll have to hear about the great time with the Fire from others. My kids aren't on their teams. Nor do I have a kid that's a 99.

Why the confusion over the screen name? Either my kids continue to have fun with hockey, or I'll get to spend more time on the lake. Win-win, either way. Either they play for fun, or I do.

play4fun wrote:

ThePuckStopsHere wrote:

play4fun wrote: That was the absolute best you've experienced in life?

And why is it that you're so concerned about a few kids and parents on a single squad? If it's not you or your kid, move on. (That is, right after you get done re-living all of your personal glory moments that came before you were done with highschool. )

Unless you have some psychic ability, and are able to read the minds and thoughts of the parents of kids who choose to participate in teams like the 99 Machine, Blades, Fire, etc. I don't believe you're in a position to paint them all with the "make your kids chase YOUR DREAMS" tag.

Just because some kids dare to excel outside of the association model, they're automatically in a child-abuse situation? Quick, call social services, or the cops, or maybe your local association board member. Hopefully they'll give you the time you deserve to voice your concerns so that you can feel better about your own personal situation. (That is, if you still have their attention after you get done telling them all about your personal glory days in youth hockey and highschool... the absolute best ever memories in your life.) Hmmm, I wonder if the overzealous tag works both ways? If so, you're a definite candidate.

NOTE: The above was my over-the-top response to your over-the-top knee-jerk assessment of people, that from your comments, you either a) don't know, b) are envious of, and/or c) dislike. If you're honest, you know that there are over-the-top, live-throught-your-kid parents in almost any setting. Your good old community associations included.

Thanks for the book, it was great reading. To answer your question a), b) or c)? That would be d) none of the above. And yes it was one of the best memories I had as a kid, obviously you didn't have that experience.

I'm confused, Isn't your name Play4Fun Anyways have a great time with the Fire

Glad you enjoyed the jab.

I'll have to hear about the great time with the Fire from others. My kids aren't on their teams. Nor do I have a kid that's a 99.

Why the confusion over the screen name? Either my kids continue to have fun with hockey, or I'll get to spend more time on the lake. Win-win, either way. Either they play for fun, or I do.

I'm glad to see you and I are becoming friends. Hey let me know when the fishing on your lake goes south, I have some nice lake shore property in Afghanistan for sale.

I think alot of us have overlooked one thing: Minnesota Made and the FIRE have brought Minnesota Youth Hockey back into a National Powerhouse/Spotlight at many levels.

Both of these programs have done nothing put produce skilled Hockey players which is extremely good for our State and youth hockey!! AND sharpend the skills of the kids who are already loaded with God Gifted Talent.

I think people tend to try and rip on organizations for taking away from thier associations or something - but in reality they are ADDING to the big picture. Minnesota Youth Hockey has always been good, but Bernie & the Fire have done nothing but inject rocket fuel.

I think people should embrace it...

Embrace what?

What's the plan?

So far you're just confusing us.

Embrace the fact that they are added to the overall quality of players coming through our youth programs.

The plan...? - Quite bitching about the Fire and MN MADE and incorporate thier style into every association in Minnesota.

Un- Confused yet?

SuperStar wrote:Embrace the fact that they are added to the overall quality of players coming through our youth programs.

The plan...? - Quite bitching about the Fire and MN MADE and incorporate thier style into every association in Minnesota.

Un- Confused yet?

"SuperStar' Embrace what?? Do you really think these two organizations are a huge factor in the skill set of Minnesota Youth Hockey Players? The top players coming out of Minnesota that end up playing at the highest level of hockey don't attest their success to the Made & Fire - Get Real!

And you say Associations should incorporate thier style, what style is that? Paying out of the A$$ for ice and travel expenses or missing way too much school to travel on an airplane to play a hockey game?

Good Luck

Superstar is the Chief Marketing Officer for the Fire. Nice, well thought out reply.

That's the way you choose to lay out the Fire's 09-10 plan so all of us have a good understanding. It's a secret society because if they wanted a real Tier 1 organization they could probably work toward that goal. Instead they have bitter idiots at the wheel. Future success will be difficult with the current leadership.

Of course if they really did a nice job, had open and well attended tryouts, then Superstars kid wouldn't make it. Why not try and attract the best 15 players and have a truly Tier 1 team? They've put politics into the Fire just like the associations so many of the malcontents wanted to get away from. The bad attitudes they had during their association experience surfaces in their new organization. Zero class.

I favor Tier 1 and opportunities for good players that don't think they get them in their home associations. That's all fine. Just do it right or you embarrass all of us. And, back to my CMO comment, you scare people away.