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what is going to take for any school to beat warroad? any ideas anybody. http://www.mghca.com/subseason/stats/26 ... r_dir=DESC

I only know of one way...score more goals.

hockeyheaven wrote:I only know of one way...score more goals.

Maybe hijack their bus?

No they will just come down in one of those big yellow trucks.

Do a better job of recruiting then them.

So far there is only one team that figured that out...

RECRUITING PLAYERS AND OFFER JOBS TO THE PARENTS TO WORK IN THE BIG YELLOW BUILDING!!!

Marvin's hasn't added any jobs in a few years since they've had to cut back. Neither of Sylvester's parents work at Marvin's. The same thing for Amsley-Benzey's parents. I guess I'm not sure about the other players but it doesn't seem that all the parents get a cushiony job at Marvin's like people think.

warriors41 wrote:Marvin's hasn't added any jobs in a few years since they've had to cut back. Neither of Sylvester's parents work at Marvin's. The same thing for Amsley-Benzey's parents. I guess I'm not sure about the other players but it doesn't seem that all the parents get a cushiony job at Marvin's like people think.

I am glad someone pointed that out, as the stereotype isn't always exactly true.

warriors41 wrote:Marvin's hasn't added any jobs in a few years since they've had to cut back. Neither of Sylvester's parents work at Marvin's. The same thing for Amsley-Benzey's parents. I guess I'm not sure about the other players but it doesn't seem that all the parents get a cushiony job at Marvin's like people think.

As much as I have to agree that not everyone that comes to the town of Warroad gets a cushy job.....Sylvester does work at Marvins in the the IS dept.

But to be fair the company is in the middle of no where and for years has been looking for people to move here to work. There children didn't need to play hockey (that was just a bonus).

Have them play in AA instead of collecting meaningless trophies... (see St. Thomas boys program as well)

This isn't a knock on class A, it's a knock on teams that have talent playing in a lower division so they can rack up an insane record and stats.

Warroad is a joke until they play with the big schools where they belong

hockeyfan21 wrote:Have them play in AA instead of collecting meaningless trophies... (see St. Thomas boys program as well)

This isn't a knock on class A, it's a knock on teams that have talent playing in a lower division so they can rack up an insane record and stats.

Warroad is a joke until they play with the big schools where they belong

Why don't you come up to Warroad and help count the girls state championship banners?........I'll save you some gas there aren't any.
The years that Moorhead and Hibbing stopped Warroad from getting out of the section seem to be forgotten since they have won the section for two years in a row.

Once they win one this is truely a valid agruement, but until find something else to wine about.

hockeyfan21 wrote:Have them play in AA instead of collecting meaningless trophies... (see St. Thomas boys program as well)

This isn't a knock on class A, it's a knock on teams that have talent playing in a lower division so they can rack up an insane record and stats.

Warroad is a joke until they play with the big schools where they belong

I'm just not really sure where to start with that comment- do they belong there because of there enrollment? hmm, i have no idea what other schools are in the "A" tourny but i'd venture a guess that they are of the smallest enrollment in the "A" tourny much less the "AA" tourny.

Yes it would have been fun to see what Warroad could have accomplished if they would have opted to Class AA… given the team they have. I would even bet that there is some serious second guessing going on. However, they do not have to justify to anyone the Class to which they are… recommended for… and are currently positioned in. Nor do they have to make apologies for the players who found it in their best interest to attend Warroad high. These statements of recruiting and the subsequent trash talking has gone on for years and it’s…quite frankly…embarrassing. You really need to give it a rest.

TheDon wrote:

hockeyfan21 wrote:Have them play in AA instead of collecting meaningless trophies... (see St. Thomas boys program as well)

This isn't a knock on class A, it's a knock on teams that have talent playing in a lower division so they can rack up an insane record and stats.

Warroad is a joke until they play with the big schools where they belong

I'm just not really sure where to start with that comment- do they belong there because of there enrollment? hmm, i have no idea what other schools are in the "A" tourny but i'd venture a guess that they are of the smallest enrollment in the "A" tourny much less the "AA" tourny.

I think it is easy for all of us to hate teams that do well and maybe recruit; I would say that private schools should all be AA before Warroad simply because there are no boundary’s that they need to abide by like public schools do. Warroad does have a smaller student selection than the AA teams and the MSHSL dictate’s where they can play,” not that it pleases all!” But I think that we could make lots of arguments as to who should play where. Could Warroad play AA? Without a doubt they could! Would they be successful? I am sure they would. They have a good thing in Warroad and they have found a way to keep training all year round with out having to spend a fortune. Don’t hate the girls for it.

If the girls were to win this years class A tourny I would love to see them go up to AA since they return almost all of their key players. But they shouldn't be pressured to move up until they win at least one big trophy first. To say otherwise is crazy.

Why is it whenever you say something negative about the decisions of coaches or admin's people turn it into an attack on the girls playing? No attack on the girls of warroad at all, no mention (unlike some others) about "recruiting"; I have no first hand knowledge of recruiting, just other peoples anecdotes so I don't even get into that.

Facts (okay, a lot of subjective opinion too ):
- Some schools and areas have a great tradition for producing standout hockey talent, year in and year out, regardless of school enrollment size.
- Some schools (definitely including some private schools here) use their small enrollment as an argument for staying in a lower class so they have a better chance at going to state tournaments, even though if we look at numbers of students who participate in those sports is on par with larger schools
- Warroad has a great tradition of hockey excellence, has for longer than I've been alive

Enrollment #'s 2010
Breck (unable to get) vs. New Ulm 744
So. St. Paul 905 vs. Hutchinson 875
Warroad 386 vs. Chisago Lakes 1076
Faribault 1075 vs. Alexandria 1278

Granted Warroad has the smallest enrollment, but are you really going to try and have me believe that Warroad is an underdog because of that? How many kids play hockey in Warroad compared to New Ulm or Hutchinson?

More importantly, I like that Roseau moved up to AA despite having an enrollment of only 410! Warroad might have been the favorite in AA this year had they made the move.

Again, none of this is a bash against the girls, they have no say in it. But what's the point of watching Warroad beat up on teams 8-0 night after night, instead of rooting for a small northern school to come down and face the Edina's etc. and win? That's what I love about the old state tourney.

If we continue to pressure the top three or four small schools to move up to AA, aren't we coming much too close to creating a tier system? If the opt-up option was not available, it would serve to keep the small schools in the small school state tournament...and frankly, I don't see much of a reason for having two state tournaments if they aren't based on enrollment size. That way, maybe we'd have less to complain about because the Class A tournament would be more competitive because they would be able to retain some of their top teams.

I think that as long as the top teams in Class A schedule the toughest non-conference games available against AA teams and are able to compete/win, the two-tournament system will produce two true State Champions.

Preserving the "small school" system might also encourage better development in some of the smaller teams who really want to win, instead of simply eliminating the toughest competition in their paths.

From the Pioneer Press today:
http://www.twincities.com/prep/ci_14451306

===========================
Over the next five weeks, tears of joy and fist-pumps aplenty will fill venues where state titles will be decided in eight activities.
Pioneer Press

Updated: 02/22/2010 09:36:17 PM CST


GIRLS HOCKEY

When: Wednesday-Saturday

Where: Xcel Energy Center

Skinny: Two new champions will emerge. Warroad, the Class A runner-up last season, is the favorite to win the small-school title. Roseville is on a roll and favored to win the big-school crown. Warroad might be the best girls hockey team in Minnesota, regardless of enrollment size. We'll never know. Until a format change is implemented, we can only wonder.
===========================

jgr wrote:what is going to take for any school to beat warroad? any ideas anybody. http://www.mghca.com/subseason/stats/26 ... r_dir=DESC

The same way you beat any good team........fore and back checking.

MSHSL rationale for classes is participation based.

I assume this to mean that the MSHSL wants to see communities (student-athletes) participate that otherwise wouldn't in a single state tourney format.

If this assumption is indeed the case, then it makes perfect sense as to why the "opt-up" option exists. It exists to get the smaller schools that are always dominant (can compete with bigger schools) out of the way of the other smaller communities that will benefit from the opportunity to actually compete. (helps grow the sport in non-hockey-tradition-rich areas and gives them a legitimate chance to compete for state each season)

I don't believe that the goal of classes was to award trophies in a smaller class to a team that could compete with the best of the bigger schools. (this is probably why the MSHSL started with tiers first)

The real problem is that teams must opt-up for four years at a time. Even for some semi-developed programs that's a long commitment. I'd like to see it reduced to two years in line with the section realignment schedule.

ghshockeyfan wrote:MSHSL rationale for classes is participation based.

I assume this to mean that the MSHSL wants to see communities (student-athletes) participate that otherwise wouldn't in a single state tourney format.

If this assumption is indeed the case, then it makes perfect sense as to why the "opt-up" option exists. It exists to get the smaller schools that are always dominant (can compete with bigger schools) out of the way of the other smaller communities that will benefit from the opportunity to actually compete. (helps grow the sport in non-hockey-tradition-rich areas and gives them a legitimate chance to compete for state each season)

I don't believe that the goal of classes was to award trophies in a smaller class to a team that could compete with the best of the bigger schools. (this is probably why the MSHSL started with tiers first)

The real problem is that teams must opt-up for four years at a time. Even for some semi-developed programs that's a long commitment. I'd like to see it reduced to two years in line with the section realignment schedule.

It is great fun to see smaller schools opt up and be very competitive! Agree that a two year commitment would probably allow more schools to feel comfortable to try it.

SportsMa wrote:It is great fun to see smaller schools opt up and be very competitive! Agree that a two year commitment would probably allow more schools to feel comfortable to try it.

Agreed - and even in the old single tourney format it was great to see small school teams play with the big schools (like Roseau boys in 1990 & 1991 just before the MSHSL went to tiers and then, a couple years later, classes.)

hockeyfan21 wrote:Why is it whenever you say something negative about the decisions of coaches or admin's people turn it into an attack on the girls playing? No attack on the girls of warroad at all, no mention (unlike some others) about "recruiting"; I have no first hand knowledge of recruiting, just other peoples anecdotes so I don't even get into that.

Facts (okay, a lot of subjective opinion too ):
- Some schools and areas have a great tradition for producing standout hockey talent, year in and year out, regardless of school enrollment size.
- Some schools (definitely including some private schools here) use their small enrollment as an argument for staying in a lower class so they have a better chance at going to state tournaments, even though if we look at numbers of students who participate in those sports is on par with larger schools
- Warroad has a great tradition of hockey excellence, has for longer than I've been alive

Enrollment #'s 2010
Breck (unable to get) vs. New Ulm 744
So. St. Paul 905 vs. Hutchinson 875
Warroad 386 vs. Chisago Lakes 1076
Faribault 1075 vs. Alexandria 1278

Granted Warroad has the smallest enrollment, but are you really going to try and have me believe that Warroad is an underdog because of that? How many kids play hockey in Warroad compared to New Ulm or Hutchinson?

More importantly, I like that Roseau moved up to AA despite having an enrollment of only 410! Warroad might have been the favorite in AA this year had they made the move.

Again, none of this is a bash against the girls, they have no say in it. But what's the point of watching Warroad beat up on teams 8-0 night after night, instead of rooting for a small northern school to come down and face the Edina's etc. and win? That's what I love about the old state tourney.

"More importantly, I like that Roseau moved up to AA despite having an enrollment of only 410! Warroad might have been the favorite in AA this year had they made the move."

The only reason, as I stated before in another thread, is that they had to opt up in order to get by Warroad. The boys did the same thing in the mid to late 1990s when they couldn't beat Warroad in sections as well. It is quite ironic how they get so much praise for playing at the AA and being with the "big dogs" when they in fact were simply running from their "lesser" opponent.

mn miracle man wrote:

hockeyfan21 wrote:"More importantly, I like that Roseau moved up to AA despite having an enrollment of only 410! Warroad might have been the favorite in AA this year had they made the move."

The only reason, as I stated before in another thread, is that they had to opt up in order to get by Warroad. The boys did the same thing in the mid to late 1990s when they couldn't beat Warroad in sections as well. It is quite ironic how they get so much praise for playing at the AA and being with the "big dogs" when they in fact were simply running from their "lesser" opponent.

It seems both should have opted-up then in the specific gender in the timeframes specified respectively - except I understand the 4 years is a long time.