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Saturday night, section 6a semi-finals in Sartell. FF and Sartell squared off.

game tied 1-1 going into overtime.

5 min into 1st overtime Lucas Gervais was awarded a penalty shot for Sartell's d covering it in the crease. Lucas shoots it off the post which goes off the goalie and into the net. the ref called it a no goal. the ref didnt deny the puck went in the net but he said the rule is once the puck quits its forward motion toward the net, once it hit the post it was ruled "dead"

with 1:52 left in 2nd OT sartell scored the game winner.

IMO- a ref shouldn't decide the outcome of a SECTION PLAYOFF GAME.

the board reviewed it and said the error was a human error and cannot be overturned.

another point why didn't the ref have a rulebook with him? the rulebook has an example for this very situation.

any thoughts on what i think is the worst call i've ever seen in high school hockey

I always thought it was a continuation play. The players shoots and once the puck stops, in or out determines the call. As long as there was no second shot attempt and the original shot came to rest in the net isn't it a goal? What's the rule book say? If they got it wrong, that's a shame.

there was no second attempt. it was in the back of the net. not sure exactly what the rule book says.

The refs are part of the game. And they make mistakes all the time...it's part of the game. Last year at the State Tournament a goal was either allowed or disallowed...I'm not sure...after the refs used replay. As I sat there at the X I was very disappointed that high school sports had come into using the replay system. I thought they were the only pure sports left. Usually the replay system doesn't even work the way it's supposed to. I know this wasn't a replay type of call, but I still think it's best to let the refs use their best judgement. In the end a team will usuaully get an even amout of breaks and bad calls. I know it just blows when it happens in a playoff game. But that's part of the game!

dont you think they should double check a game changing/season ending call.

it would have taken less than 2 min to check the rulebook. fergus would be playing alex in the finals friday night

gaborik wrote:Saturday night, section 6a semi-finals in Sartell. FF and Sartell squared off.

game tied 1-1 going into overtime.

5 min into 1st overtime Lucas Gervais was awarded a penalty shot for Sartell's d covering it in the crease. Lucas shoots it off the post which goes off the goalie and into the net. the ref called it a no goal. the ref didnt deny the puck went in the net but he said the rule is once the puck quits its forward motion toward the net, once it hit the post it was ruled "dead"

with 1:52 left in 2nd OT sartell scored the game winner.

IMO- a ref shouldn't decide the outcome of a SECTION PLAYOFF GAME.

the board reviewed it and said the error was a human error and cannot be overturned.

another point why didn't the ref have a rulebook with him? the rulebook has an example for this very situation.

any thoughts on what i think is the worst call i've ever seen in high school hockey

I think forward motion is if a player loses control of the puck while skating in, the play is dead. I know it can't bounce off the boards and then off the goalie.

Obviously the ref should know the rule, but he didn't. I'm assuming refs don't skate with a rule book on them. However, there was probably one in their locker room??

Why didn't the FF coach have a copy of the rule book on their bench? I'm guessing he'll never coach again without one.

DoubleDeuce wrote:The refs are part of the game. And they make mistakes all the time...it's part of the game. Last year at the State Tournament a goal was either allowed or disallowed...I'm not sure...after the refs used replay. As I sat there at the X I was very disappointed that high school sports had come into using the replay system. I thought they were the only pure sports left. Usually the replay system doesn't even work the way it's supposed to. I know this wasn't a replay type of call, but I still think it's best to let the refs use their best judgement. In the end a team will usuaully get an even amout of breaks and bad calls. I know it just blows when it happens in a playoff game. But that's part of the game!

I'd always rather have the right call slow than the wrong call fast. Especially this type of call.

I thought all section playoff games had to have a goal judge besides. Sartell does not. Why was this allowed?

DoubleDeuce wrote:The refs are part of the game. And they make mistakes all the time...it's part of the game. Last year at the State Tournament a goal was either allowed or disallowed...I'm not sure...after the refs used replay. As I sat there at the X I was very disappointed that high school sports had come into using the replay system. I thought they were the only pure sports left. Usually the replay system doesn't even work the way it's supposed to. I know this wasn't a replay type of call, but I still think it's best to let the refs use their best judgement. In the end a team will usuaully get an even amout of breaks and bad calls. I know it just blows when it happens in a playoff game. But that's part of the game!

I agree with you completely but this was not a judgement call. They said that the puck crossed the goal line. They got the rule wrong. Plays are open to interpretation but the rules are not. I see your point on bad calls during a game, you have to live with it but this play would have ended the game at that point there is no reason why the game decision could not be reversed because everything that happened after it should be moot.

lugnutguy21 wrote:I thought all section playoff games had to have a goal judge besides. Sartell does not. Why was this allowed?

Ditto!

I've been watching this post and am actually surprised it took so long for this topic to come up. I was at the game, live in St Cloud, not a fan of either school, but figured it would be a good game. I was at that end of the rink when the penalty shot was taken. The puck hit the crossbar, came straight down, hit the ice rolled forward about 2-3 inches when it hit the goalie and went in. There was a ref and linesman on either side of the net and the ref immediately waved off the goal. All 3 officials did get together and discuss it for quite a while and confirmed thier call. Here is what USA Hockey has in their rule book for a penalty shot (couldn't find anything un MSHSL site for rules:

Rule 406 Penalty Shot
(a) A “Penalty Shot” shall be taken as follows:
The Referee shall cause to be announced over the public
address system the name of the player designated by him or
selected by the team entitled to take the shot (as appropriate)
and shall then place the puck on the center face-off spot and
the player taking the shot will, on the instruction of the
Referee, play the puck from there and shall attempt to score
on the goalkeeper. Once the player taking the shot has
touched the puck, it must be kept in motion towards the
opponent’s goal line and once it is shot the play shall be
considered complete. No goal can be scored on a rebound of
any kind and any time the puck crosses the goal line the shot
shall be considered complete.
Only a player designated as a goalkeeper, substitute
goalkeeper or temporary goalkeeper (see Glossary) may
defend against a penalty shot.

The ref should know the rules, since the better ones get section and state games. Probably a situation that is extremely rare, but still not an excuse for not getting it right. He must have thought he had it right. I imagine he feels pretty bad, knowing the importance of the game. Why was a penatly shot called?

The ref called the Sartell defenseman for covering the puck in the crease. I actually give the ref credit for making the right call there. In that situation, I think quite a few refs would call a 2 minute penalty for delay of game, rather than having the guts to make the right call and award the penalty shot. From what I could see on the ice, the refs never disputed that the goal crossed the line, but rather, what happened to it before it did. Tough call to make, but I think they got it right.

It should be overturned. If he was wrong and they admit it then the game was over at that point. That's my $.02

Fergus Falls was robbed blind. They won the game. The Referee did not know the rules and obviously he isn't qualified to referee a game of this magnitude because he was too insecure in himself to actually check the rules when the Fergus Falls coach insisted on such. He will have to live with this for the rest of his life. Not only did he blow the call and make himself look bad, but he squelched the dreams of 18 kids and actually may have altered their careers.

Luke Gervais came down the ice on a penalty shot and clearly beat the Sartell netminder. His shot hit the post and caromed off the back of the goalie and into the net crossing the goal line. The goal judge saw it. The crowd saw it. The video camera doesn't lie and it shows clearly this to be the case.

The Minnesota State High School League didn't have the backbone to make it right.

Same thing happened to Moorhead a few years back which cost them the State Championship against Holy Angels. The referee blew the call and the State High School league didn't make that right either. However, the MSHSL did institute a "replay" policy which is now in order at State Tournament games.

Anyone who says video should not be used in a case such as this is undoubtedly a Sartell fan.

"Human Error" is what the MSHSL declared. Well ... what the hell do we have technology for if we don't use it. It's used at the highest levels and it should be used in all play-off games (if available) because the alternative is sending players home, in some cases for the rest of their lives (careers).

Shame on anyone who would take away a victory that was earned and won't make it right when they have the ability to do so.

Got a beef with me? Step in line.

mulefarm wrote:The ref should know the rules, since the better ones get section and state games. Probably a situation that is extremely rare, but still not an excuse for not getting it right. He must have thought he had it right. I imagine he feels pretty bad, knowing the importance of the game. Why was a penatly shot called?

if a skater other then the goalie covers the puck with there hand or lays on it the team trying to score gets awarded a penalty shot.


this is interesting though. not sure if the MSHSL rules are the same as USA hockey's..

Hockey_fan11 wrote:I've been watching this post and am actually surprised it took so long for this topic to come up. I was at the game, live in St Cloud, not a fan of either school, but figured it would be a good game. I was at that end of the rink when the penalty shot was taken. The puck hit the crossbar, came straight down, hit the ice rolled forward about 2-3 inches when it hit the goalie and went in. There was a ref and linesman on either side of the net and the ref immediately waved off the goal. All 3 officials did get together and discuss it for quite a while and confirmed thier call. Here is what USA Hockey has in their rule book for a penalty shot (couldn't find anything un MSHSL site for rules:

Rule 406 Penalty Shot
(a) A “Penalty Shot” shall be taken as follows:
The Referee shall cause to be announced over the public
address system the name of the player designated by him or
selected by the team entitled to take the shot (as appropriate)
and shall then place the puck on the center face-off spot and
the player taking the shot will, on the instruction of the
Referee, play the puck from there and shall attempt to score
on the goalkeeper. Once the player taking the shot has
touched the puck, it must be kept in motion towards the
opponent’s goal line and once it is shot the play shall be
considered complete. No goal can be scored on a rebound of
any kind and any time the puck crosses the goal line the shot
shall be considered complete.
Only a player designated as a goalkeeper, substitute
goalkeeper or temporary goalkeeper (see Glossary) may
defend against a penalty shot.

NFHS Ice Hockey Rules 2009-2010
SECTION 7 PENALTY SHOT
ART. 1 . . . A penalty shot is awarded to restore a lost scoring opportunity.
ART. 2 . . . If the offense for which the penalty shot was awarded was one that normally would incur a minor penalty, the non-offending team may, prior to the penalty shot, elect that the minor penalty be assessed to the offending player or team in lieu of the penalty shot.
ART. 3 . . . The penalty shot shall be taken by the player fouled. If no player has been fouled, the shot may be taken by any player of the nonoffending side who is not serving a penalty when play is stopped for the penalty shot (captain’s choice of players).
ART. 4 . . . The puck shall be placed at the center faceoff spot. At the referee’s instruction, the attacking player shall begin toward the goal, keeping in motion toward the goal until the puck is shot or has crossed the goal line extended. Only one shot is permitted.
ART. 5 . . . The goalkeeper shall remain in the goal crease until the attacking player has touched the puck. The goalkeeper may attempt to stop the puck in any manner except by throwing his stick. If a foul is committed by the goalkeeper during the try and the try is unsuccessful, another penalty shot is awarded.
ART. 6 . . . If the player awarded the penalty shot is injured, the try may be taken by any teammate who is not serving a penalty.
ART. 7 . . . If the attacking player commits a foul, that player may be permitted to take the shot before going to the penalty box.
ART. 8 . . . All players shall move to their respective bench areas and remain quiet until the shot has been completed. If a player other than the defending goalkeeper causes the penalty shot by another player to fail, a second attempt shall be awarded, and a misconduct penalty assessed to the player who interfered with or distracted the shooter.
ART. 9 . . . If a goal is scored from a penalty shot, a further penalty to the
offending player shall be applied if the offense for which the penalty shot was awarded was such as to incur a major, disqualification or misconduct penalty. In that case, the penalty prescribed for the particular offense shall be imposed.

4.7.4 SITUATION: On a penalty shot, the puck (a) hits the post, hits the back of the goalkeeper’s leg and enters the goal, or (b) hits the glass or boards, hits the goalkeeper’s leg and enters the goal.
RULING: In (a) goal is scored. In (b) no goal is scored, since puck crossed the goal line extended, which nullifies the play.

I do not know the rule, but if it hit the pipe and then the goalie is the play dead at that point?

Should have been a goal!!

mulefarm wrote:I do not know the rule, but if it hit the pipe and then the goalie is the play dead at that point?

Read the rule [SITUATION] directly above. The goal was good. Had it crossed the invisible line (on initial shot) that represents the back of the net (iron) ... and then hit the goalie and went in ... it would have been no good.

Junior Samples wrote:Fergus Falls was robbed blind. They won the game. The Referee did not know the rules and obviously he isn't qualified to referee a game of this magnitude because he was too insecure in himself to actually check the rules when the Fergus Falls coach insisted on such. He will have to live with this for the rest of his life. Not only did he blow the call and make himself look bad, but he squelched the dreams of 18 kids and actually may have altered their careers.

Luke Gervais came down the ice on a penalty shot and clearly beat the Sartell netminder. His shot hit the post and caromed off the back of the goalie and into the net crossing the goal line. The goal judge saw it. The crowd saw it. The video camera doesn't lie and it shows clearly this to be the case.

The Minnesota State High School League didn't have the backbone to make it right.

Same thing happened to Moorhead a few years back which cost them the State Championship against Holy Angels. The referee blew the call and the State High School league didn't make that right either. However, the MSHSL did institute a "replay" policy which is now in order at State Tournament games.

Anyone who says video should not be used in a case such as this is undoubtedly a Sartell fan.

"Human Error" is what the MSHSL declared. Well ... what the hell do we have technology for if we don't use it. It's used at the highest levels and it should be used in all play-off games (if available) because the alternative is sending players home, in some cases for the rest of their lives (careers).

Shame on anyone who would take away a victory that was earned and won't make it right when they have the ability to do so.

Got a beef with me? Step in line.

I was standing in the penalty box during this game and saw the penalty shot. I couldn't see from my angle if the puck actually crossed the goal line or not but if you want to make the case for bad calls, then how about the 2 times that Austin Plaine went crashing into the net and the puck crossed the line before the whistle blew and net came off it's moorings? You could make the case that those were goals as well but the ref's weren't able to see it.

Ref's are always going to make mistakes. It's part of the game.

I thought the penalty shot also went in because Gervais started to celebrate, but like i said before I couldn't see from my angle.

KUDOS GOES TO THE FERGUS FALLS GOALIE FOR KEEPING HIS TEAM IN THE GAME!! If it weren't for that kid, the game could have easily been a 5-1 or 6-1 game.

Aren't there two refs at these games. I know there are for 4AA. Shame on them BOTH for getting this call wrong.

fivehole628 wrote:

Junior Samples wrote:Fergus Falls was robbed blind. They won the game. The Referee did not know the rules and obviously he isn't qualified to referee a game of this magnitude because he was too insecure in himself to actually check the rules when the Fergus Falls coach insisted on such. He will have to live with this for the rest of his life. Not only did he blow the call and make himself look bad, but he squelched the dreams of 18 kids and actually may have altered their careers.

Luke Gervais came down the ice on a penalty shot and clearly beat the Sartell netminder. His shot hit the post and caromed off the back of the goalie and into the net crossing the goal line. The goal judge saw it. The crowd saw it. The video camera doesn't lie and it shows clearly this to be the case.

The Minnesota State High School League didn't have the backbone to make it right.

Same thing happened to Moorhead a few years back which cost them the State Championship against Holy Angels. The referee blew the call and the State High School league didn't make that right either. However, the MSHSL did institute a "replay" policy which is now in order at State Tournament games.

Anyone who says video should not be used in a case such as this is undoubtedly a Sartell fan.

"Human Error" is what the MSHSL declared. Well ... what the hell do we have technology for if we don't use it. It's used at the highest levels and it should be used in all play-off games (if available) because the alternative is sending players home, in some cases for the rest of their lives (careers).

Shame on anyone who would take away a victory that was earned and won't make it right when they have the ability to do so.

Got a beef with me? Step in line.

I was standing in the penalty box during this game and saw the penalty shot. I couldn't see from my angle if the puck actually crossed the goal line or not but if you want to make the case for bad calls, then how about the 2 times that Austin Plaine went crashing into the net and the puck crossed the line before the whistle blew and net came off it's moorings? You could make the case that those were goals as well but the ref's weren't able to see it.

Ref's are always going to make mistakes. It's part of the game.

I thought the penalty shot also went in because Gervais started to celebrate, but like i said before I couldn't see from my angle.

KUDOS GOES TO THE FERGUS FALLS GOALIE FOR KEEPING HIS TEAM IN THE GAME!! If it weren't for that kid, the game could have easily been a 5-1 or 6-1 game.

I agree with your assesment of the game. The Sabres did a lot of crashing into the goalie. Was it on purpose? Not the first time that question has popped up with Sartell. Ask Alexandria last year.

OHR wrote:

fivehole628 wrote:

Junior Samples wrote:Fergus Falls was robbed blind. They won the game. The Referee did not know the rules and obviously he isn't qualified to referee a game of this magnitude because he was too insecure in himself to actually check the rules when the Fergus Falls coach insisted on such. He will have to live with this for the rest of his life. Not only did he blow the call and make himself look bad, but he squelched the dreams of 18 kids and actually may have altered their careers.

Luke Gervais came down the ice on a penalty shot and clearly beat the Sartell netminder. His shot hit the post and caromed off the back of the goalie and into the net crossing the goal line. The goal judge saw it. The crowd saw it. The video camera doesn't lie and it shows clearly this to be the case.

The Minnesota State High School League didn't have the backbone to make it right.

Same thing happened to Moorhead a few years back which cost them the State Championship against Holy Angels. The referee blew the call and the State High School league didn't make that right either. However, the MSHSL did institute a "replay" policy which is now in order at State Tournament games.

Anyone who says video should not be used in a case such as this is undoubtedly a Sartell fan.

"Human Error" is what the MSHSL declared. Well ... what the hell do we have technology for if we don't use it. It's used at the highest levels and it should be used in all play-off games (if available) because the alternative is sending players home, in some cases for the rest of their lives (careers).

Shame on anyone who would take away a victory that was earned and won't make it right when they have the ability to do so.

Got a beef with me? Step in line.

I was standing in the penalty box during this game and saw the penalty shot. I couldn't see from my angle if the puck actually crossed the goal line or not but if you want to make the case for bad calls, then how about the 2 times that Austin Plaine went crashing into the net and the puck crossed the line before the whistle blew and net came off it's moorings? You could make the case that those were goals as well but the ref's weren't able to see it.

Ref's are always going to make mistakes. It's part of the game.

I thought the penalty shot also went in because Gervais started to celebrate, but like i said before I couldn't see from my angle.

KUDOS GOES TO THE FERGUS FALLS GOALIE FOR KEEPING HIS TEAM IN THE GAME!! If it weren't for that kid, the game could have easily been a 5-1 or 6-1 game.

I agree with your assesment of the game. The Sabres did a lot of crashing into the goalie. Was it on purpose? Not the first time that question has popped up with Sartell. Ask Alexandria last year.

Plaine tends to do that quite often for some odd reason, just ask Sartell's JV goalie (knocked him out during one of their practices)

Hockey_fan11 wrote:I've been watching this post and am actually surprised it took so long for this topic to come up. I was at the game, live in St Cloud, not a fan of either school, but figured it would be a good game. I was at that end of the rink when the penalty shot was taken. The puck hit the crossbar, came straight down, hit the ice rolled forward about 2-3 inches when it hit the goalie and went in. There was a ref and linesman on either side of the net and the ref immediately waved off the goal. All 3 officials did get together and discuss it for quite a while and confirmed thier call. Here is what USA Hockey has in their rule book for a penalty shot (couldn't find anything un MSHSL site for rules:

Rule 406 Penalty Shot
(a) A “Penalty Shot” shall be taken as follows:
The Referee shall cause to be announced over the public
address system the name of the player designated by him or
selected by the team entitled to take the shot (as appropriate)
and shall then place the puck on the center face-off spot and
the player taking the shot will, on the instruction of the
Referee, play the puck from there and shall attempt to score
on the goalkeeper. Once the player taking the shot has
touched the puck, it must be kept in motion towards the
opponent’s goal line and once it is shot the play shall be
considered complete. No goal can be scored on a rebound of
any kind and any time the puck crosses the goal line the shot
shall be considered complete.
Only a player designated as a goalkeeper, substitute
goalkeeper or temporary goalkeeper (see Glossary) may
defend against a penalty shot.

Later in the casebook this is listed:
Situation 3
During a Penalty Shot attempt, the puck rebounds off the goal
post, hits the back of the goalkeeper’s leg and enters the goal.
Should the goal be awarded or disallowed?
The goal shall be awarded. Rule Reference 406(a).
Even though Rule 406(a) states that no goal shall be scored on
a rebound, this situation is not considered to be a “rebound.”
The word “rebound” in 406(a) means a second shot by the
player after a deflection off the goalkeeper or goal post.