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Why is everyone so hell bent on slamming the Blades and the Machine? If either of the programs aren't for you, what gives you the right to slam them, discredit them and blast others for being apart of them?

Why is it wrong for an organization to be for a profit?? If I worked my ass of and started an elite organization such as the above mentioned I sure as PLEASE BAN ME would want some sort of kick back! I have zero problem giving someone some money to help my childs development! If I find after a year or two it isn't working for us then so be it we will move on but it obviously works for others! Too each their own! Just because your experience wasn't perfect doesn't mean others aren't! Heck, maybe the problem is you! Lets face it, alot of kids get left off of teams because of PROBLEM PARENTS!

Did you guys know that the coach of the Anaheim Wildcats makes over 6 figures? Did you guys know that tournament organizers get kick backs from hotels for every room booked? Is that a crime? Hell no, if it wasn't for these guys we would have the high end hockey programs to be apart of and the high end tournaments to attend.

Obviously everyone knows that a Brick team is allowed to bring in outsiders. I believe you are allowed 2 per team ( might be low on that). Is the Brick tournament run perfectly? Nope, but it still is a prestigous tournament to be apart of and unfortunately politics get involved in player selection. Welcome to the world of hockey!

So, please everyone, quit your bitching, get over yourselves and be proud of the young hockey players we have in this country!!

BTW, I have a 2002 player of my own and I used to coach AAAA hockey as a non parent back in the Ice hockey Festival days. I do know both sides of the situation and it saddens me to read such childish banter.

Cheers to all the AAA hockey organizations and their players!!

Why is everyone so hell bent on slamming the Blades and the Machine? If either of the programs aren't for you, what gives you the right to slam them, discredit them and blast others for being apart of them?

Because we are insanely jealous.

Given that most hockey people in this great state never even know this board exists, I think it is mostly harmless. Nothing new or profound ever comes from here, just a repeat of all the things that have been talked about for years. No one here ever produces anything earth shattering, they just repeat statistics or studies that agree with their way of thinking.

The Dems and the Repubs are alway for the kids, they just have a different way of approaching it.

This is mostly entertainment-it is not exactly like we are doing peer reviews of cutting edge youth hockey development studies coming from the halls of York University in Toronto.

The Blades, Machine, CCM or showcase are all good as long as it fits your child rearing philosophy. We are all beer leaguers at the end of our careers anyway, regardless of how high your personal achievements. were.

I have to say I agree with you! Nice post. I have heard recently of an unfortunate incident on another team that makes the Machine and Blades far superior to this organization. Certain coaches and certain parents really need to step down off their high horses and help our kids develop and have fun. AAA hockey is for kids - not coaches and parents living through their kids! A quarter to half of these kids will quit hockey by high school anyway, then what arrogant coaches/parents???

For the most part, I agree with the OP....however, I think it's OK to simply point out whether or not certain off-season programs are "for profit" or "not for profit"...I have nothing against someone wishing to earn a buck, but it helps to know the motivation of the organization when you are writing out that check.

muckandgrind wrote:For the most part, I agree with the OP....however, I think it's OK to simply point out whether or not certain off-season programs are "for profit" or "not for profit"...I have nothing against someone wishing to earn a buck, but it helps to know the motivation of the organization when you are writing out that check.

Why?

HockeyDad41 wrote:

muckandgrind wrote:For the most part, I agree with the OP....however, I think it's OK to simply point out whether or not certain off-season programs are "for profit" or "not for profit"...I have nothing against someone wishing to earn a buck, but it helps to know the motivation of the organization when you are writing out that check.

Why?

Because you know if you are writing a check to a "not for profit" organization that all your money is going towards training (ice times, coaching, tourney fees, etc.). If you're writing a check to a "for profit" organization you know that a portion of your money is going towards training, the rest is lining someone's pocket. Again, nothing wrong with someone making a living, just make sure you know where your money is being spent.

muckandgrind wrote:

HockeyDad41 wrote:

muckandgrind wrote:For the most part, I agree with the OP....however, I think it's OK to simply point out whether or not certain off-season programs are "for profit" or "not for profit"...I have nothing against someone wishing to earn a buck, but it helps to know the motivation of the organization when you are writing out that check.

Why?

Because you know if you are writing a check to a "not for profit" organization that all your money is going towards training (ice times, coaching, tourney fees, etc.). If you're writing a check to a "for profit" organization you know that a portion of your money is going towards training, the rest is lining someone's pocket. Again, nothing wrong with someone making a living, just make sure you know where your money is being spent.

Are you implying that the nor-for-profit models do a better job of development than the for-profit models do?

HockeyDad41 wrote:

muckandgrind wrote:

HockeyDad41 wrote: Why?

Because you know if you are writing a check to a "not for profit" organization that all your money is going towards training (ice times, coaching, tourney fees, etc.). If you're writing a check to a "for profit" organization you know that a portion of your money is going towards training, the rest is lining someone's pocket. Again, nothing wrong with someone making a living, just make sure you know where your money is being spent.

Are you implying that the nor-for-profit models do a better job of development than the for-profit models do?

I'm not implying anything....I'm saying that parents should know where their money is going before they write out that check....I don't know how I can make that any more clear.

muckandgrind wrote:

HockeyDad41 wrote:

muckandgrind wrote: Because you know if you are writing a check to a "not for profit" organization that all your money is going towards training (ice times, coaching, tourney fees, etc.). If you're writing a check to a "for profit" organization you know that a portion of your money is going towards training, the rest is lining someone's pocket. Again, nothing wrong with someone making a living, just make sure you know where your money is being spent.

Are you implying that the nor-for-profit models do a better job of development than the for-profit models do?

I'm not implying anything....I'm saying that parents should know where their money is going before they write out that check....I don't know how I can make that any more clear.

I may be wrong, if I am I'm sure I'll be corrected. It is my understanding that the not profit organization's distribute their money differently. I believe coaches get paid more, thus there are more non parents. To me I have zero issue with the for profit organizations. They have the up most accountability. If they don't do a great job they lose their livelihood. They have to do great or their entire life changes. Realistically I see no real difference in how profit or non profit organizations address development. It seem like an issue that comes up only for the sake of argument.

EnjoyTheShow wrote:

muckandgrind wrote:

HockeyDad41 wrote: Are you implying that the nor-for-profit models do a better job of development than the for-profit models do?

I'm not implying anything....I'm saying that parents should know where their money is going before they write out that check....I don't know how I can make that any more clear.

I may be wrong, if I am I'm sure I'll be corrected. It is my understanding that the not profit organization's distribute their money differently. I believe coaches get paid more, thus there are more non parents. To me I have zero issue with the for profit organizations. They have the up most accountability. If they don't do a great job they lose their livelihood. They have to do great or their entire life changes. Realistically I see no real difference in how profit or non profit organizations address development. It seem like an issue that comes up only for the sake of argument.

Good non-parent coaches get paid in both models.....A paid coach doesn't imply "for profit", unless the coach owns the organization as well.

There are good and bad examples of both systems....All I'm saying is "buyer beware".

muckandgrind wrote:

HockeyDad41 wrote:

muckandgrind wrote: Because you know if you are writing a check to a "not for profit" organization that all your money is going towards training (ice times, coaching, tourney fees, etc.). If you're writing a check to a "for profit" organization you know that a portion of your money is going towards training, the rest is lining someone's pocket. Again, nothing wrong with someone making a living, just make sure you know where your money is being spent.

Are you implying that the nor-for-profit models do a better job of development than the for-profit models do?

I'm not implying anything....I'm saying that parents should know where their money is going before they write out that check....I don't know how I can make that any more clear.

Sorry, I misunderstood. It's just that when you say all of the money goes towards training with the not-for-profit model and then you say most of the money in the for-profit model ends up lining someones pocket, I assumed there was an implication there. My bad.

HockeyDad41 wrote:

muckandgrind wrote:

HockeyDad41 wrote: Are you implying that the nor-for-profit models do a better job of development than the for-profit models do?

I'm not implying anything....I'm saying that parents should know where their money is going before they write out that check....I don't know how I can make that any more clear.

Sorry, I misunderstood. It's just that when you say all of the money goes towards training with the not-for-profit model and then you say most of the money in the for-profit model ends up lining someones pocket, I assumed there was an implication there. My bad.

That's not what I said at all....re-read my post.

muckandgrind wrote:

HockeyDad41 wrote:

muckandgrind wrote:For the most part, I agree with the OP....however, I think it's OK to simply point out whether or not certain off-season programs are "for profit" or "not for profit"...I have nothing against someone wishing to earn a buck, but it helps to know the motivation of the organization when you are writing out that check.

Why?

Because you know if you are writing a check to a "not for profit" organization that all your money is going towards training (ice times, coaching, tourney fees, etc.). If you're writing a check to a "for profit" organization you know that a portion of your money is going towards training, the rest is lining someone's pocket. Again, nothing wrong with someone making a living, just make sure you know where your money is being spent.

Muck,
Curious, have you ever been on a hockey board, run an AAA program, Coach a hockey team, or ever setup\coordinate any hockey program\clinic\event?

The time these people put into it is priceless… Recruiting, finding Valued coaches, purchasing ice, scheduling ice for all teams, advertising, tryouts, more tryouts, scheduling tournaments for all teams, re-doing the original ice schedule due to added tournaments, sizing kids for jerseys, ordering jerseys, recruiting more players, finding new coaches due to coaches quitting a week before the season starts and taking the kids with him to a new program after going to all the tryouts of the program they just left to build a contact list, so more recruiting... etc., etc., etc….

Bottom line is Parents need to look at the product:
A Non- profit program =$1500 no or limited improvement
Vs.
For profit program=$1500 and great improvement
Just saying…

non-profits... Who are they?
Is Blades? $200 for 4 games for Super Series... I think there is a profit there...
Next...

MNHawker wrote:

muckandgrind wrote:

HockeyDad41 wrote: Why?

Because you know if you are writing a check to a "not for profit" organization that all your money is going towards training (ice times, coaching, tourney fees, etc.). If you're writing a check to a "for profit" organization you know that a portion of your money is going towards training, the rest is lining someone's pocket. Again, nothing wrong with someone making a living, just make sure you know where your money is being spent.

Muck,
Curious, have you ever been on a hockey board, run an AAA program, Coach a hockey team, or ever setup\coordinate any hockey program\clinic\event?

The time these people put into it is priceless… Recruiting, finding Valued coaches, purchasing ice, scheduling ice for all teams, advertising, tryouts, more tryouts, scheduling tournaments for all teams, re-doing the original ice schedule due to added tournaments, sizing kids for jerseys, ordering jerseys, recruiting more players, finding new coaches due to coaches quitting a week before the season starts and taking the kids with him to a new program after going to all the tryouts of the program they just left to build a contact list, so more recruiting... etc., etc., etc….

Bottom line is Parents need to look at the product:
A Non- profit program =$1500 no or limited improvement
Vs.
For profit program=$1500 and great improvement
Just saying…

non-profits... Who are they?
Is Blades? $200 for 4 games for Super Series... I think there is a profit there...
Next...

Since you asked, I'm currently on my 2nd go-around as a board member of a local association. My first stint was about 10 years ago, and I decided to once again get involved and was elected to serve on the board this past April. In addition, I've also coached youth hockey in the past - association and off-season. I have three sons, all of whom have played or play association and off-season (AAA) hockey....

...and (just so you know) my kids have played under both models: for-profit and not-for-profit. I've seen good and bad in both.

What the heck am I saying that seems to be causing such consternation among a couple of you??? All I'm saying is that parents need to be cautious when it comes to writing out that big check.....isn't that something you would agree with as well? Know where your money is going. Is the motive of the organization to make as much money as they can? Develop? Both?

Are you suggesting that the Blades organization is blatantly LYING about the fact that they are a not-for-profit just because there is a $200 fee for the Super Series?

Yes, the Blades are non-profit and volunteer driven. Super Series is a fund raiser we use to keep costs down for our families and to pay our our part time paid staff person. Some of our coaches are paid.

Non-profit is not the only way to do this, but it has worked for us for 20 years. A few advantages include:

-We can charge less and still deliver very high quality because there is no profit margin.
-We can focus on one team instead of needing to grab as many kids as we can to fill multiple teams at each level.
-We can cooperate with other programs. If we release a player, we usually can help him find a home.
-We get to keep our day jobs.
-The only reason to be involved is for the kids.

Over the years, many organizations (both for profit and non-profit) have come and gone. I don't know anyone who has retired early by operating a hockey organization. Both models can work. Its really about the execution.