HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

Is he ready?

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophe ... 64417.html

No. Very nice player but, here's a couple of rosters I was looking at over the weekend.

Notre Dame,
http://www.und.com/sports/m-hockey/mtt/ ... y-mtt.html

University of Nebraska Omaha,
http://www.omavs.com/roster.aspx?path=mhockey

Neither has a single high school player. I understand the problem for the gophs but I think they need to say no to some of these recruits. They're saying the cream may not need juniors but I think it's just to difficult to ask these young players to battle teams where the players are 3-4-5 years older.

Does Gardiner's arrival this year, push Seth Ambroz away...? I've heard some rumblings that Ambroz is not happy to play another year of juniors...

Does Max's commitment to this year, put Goph's at risk of losing a player like Ambroz? Was this issue at heart of why we lost Youso, as well?

If I were Ambroz, I'd give Lucia the big middle finger and go somewhere else, especially after seeing that Gardiner will be stepping right in from HS, while Seth has already spent a few years at the USHL level.

Lucia has it wrong. Ambroz should be joining the Gophs. It's Gardiner that should be playing Juniors.

Good for Max and good luck at the U!

...and don't get me wrong....I'm not trying to disrespect Gardiner in any way..it's just that I think Lucia has completely lost it. IMO, the fact that Ambroz has excelled at a much higher level of competition than Gardiner has played at should give him the edge. I think Gardiner has the potential to be a fantastic player, but I think all but the most talented recruits are better served to spend at least one season in the USHL before joining the WCHA ranks.

From your article:

The Don might also bring in one more forward, maybe Max Gardiner of Minnetonka or less likely Seth Ambroz of New Prague who played at Omaha of USHL for two seasons.

I don't see that as a definate just yet folks.

MNHockeyFan wrote:Is he ready?

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophe ... 64417.html

No he is not ready. Not even close but who else do they have? What a confidence killer this is going to be for max. Don: Its ok to say no to John even if he does have a great skybox...

Gardiner will be lucky to make it into the lineup day in and day out. If it were me, I would rather have Joey Miller on the ice.

ManBearPig wrote:Gardiner will be lucky to make it into the lineup day in and day out. If it were me, I would rather have Joey Miller on the ice.

Glad your not a coach!

BodyShots wrote:From your article:

The Don might also bring in one more forward, maybe Max Gardiner of Minnetonka or less likely Seth Ambroz of New Prague who played at Omaha of USHL for two seasons.

I don't see that as a definate just yet folks.

Yes it does say that but the other article is more recent and says that Gardiner is playing next year.

Some of the great hockey minds on this forum said Jake Gardiner wasn't ready to play defense in the wcha either but he wound up on the all-rookie team and has turned into one of the best defensive d-men in the country at wisconsin and is their best penalty kill guy. I think he led the NCAA in +/- this year which isn't bad for guy who was considered a defensive liability and has only played D for 3 years. With all the big draft picks leaving he should be on the power play and rack up some points this yr.
Maybe Max will surprise some people as well. I think he was averaging 3/points a game before breaking his wrist and having mono so he could have been a 60-70 point guy. I am guessing the gophers are not bringing him figuring he will 4th line/practice player guy.

They need his size up front. His WCHA learning curve will be faster than many believe. I think he will score more goals than people think and create some much needed havoc in front of opposing nets.

How does 10G + 10A = 20pts sound from a freshman on a team that is in desperate need of scoring. I think Max can achieve that with the right linemates.

Snap Shot wrote:They need his size up front. His WCHA learning curve will be faster than many believe. I think he will score more goals than people think and create some much needed havoc in front of opposing nets.

How does 10G + 10A = 20pts sound from a freshman on a team that is in desperate need of scoring. I think Max can achieve that with the right linemates.

At 6' 3" and 176lbs he will have a tough adjustment to the speed and maturity of WCHA players. Don't expect much from him until after Christmas break. That is not a cut down ..... that is reality.

He will likely start as a 3rd or 4th liner without much PP time. There may be nights he is in the press box. Might play PK due to his size and reach. Hopefully, he like to block shots.

muckandgrind wrote:If I were Ambroz, I'd give Lucia the big middle finger and go somewhere else, especially after seeing that Gardiner will be stepping right in from HS, while Seth has already spent a few years at the USHL level.

Lucia has it wrong. Ambroz should be joining the Gophs. It's Gardiner that should be playing Juniors.

I've never seen Ambroz play, I know he's a big kid, but if nothing else Gardiner is older

I think Ambroz is hoping to be a top 15 pick in next years draft. Going to the U and fighting for playing time on the 4th line will not help his cause. He will help himself more by going to the USHL and putting up big numbers. The way I understand his situation is that he was unhappy with the fact that he probably wouldn't be on one of the top lines and would get little pp time; I think it was his choice to go back to the USHL.

That said, depending on how the latest development with the Gophers plays out, they may be looking to bring in another forward.

nikebauer05 wrote:

BodyShots wrote:From your article:

The Don might also bring in one more forward, maybe Max Gardiner of Minnetonka or less likely Seth Ambroz of New Prague who played at Omaha of USHL for two seasons.

I don't see that as a definate just yet folks.

Yes it does say that but the other article is more recent and says that Gardiner is playing next year.

Yep, click on the link in the opening post again - it's been updated and he's definitely going to be a Gopher this season.

muckandgrind wrote:...and don't get me wrong....I'm not trying to disrespect Gardiner in any way..it's just that I think Lucia has completely lost it.

College hockey has shifted over the past 20 years. As you know, seeing a team like Lake Superior State win three National Championships with 21-24 year old Canadiens from their Tier II leagues caused most programs to look for more experienced players. No longer is it normal to start at age 18.

On the other hand, there is still tremendous pressure for the University of Minnesota to recruit the top Minnesota players. You don't land Fischer, Okposo, Budish, and others by telling them to go play in the USHL for a year. Some other college is all too happy to take them right away.

If you are drafted in the first round you also have an NHL franchise in your ear. They are hoping to get you to the big show at some point in the not too distant future.

I don't think Lucia has 'lost his mind' as much as he's in a danged if you do, danged if you don't position. Maybe at least credit him a little bit for breaking the mindset that the Gophers have to be entirely Minnesotans. (Vanek, Kessel, others) Before him it was rare and 'imports' were usually in goal (John Blue, Frank Pieterangelo).

O-townClown wrote:

muckandgrind wrote:...and don't get me wrong....I'm not trying to disrespect Gardiner in any way..it's just that I think Lucia has completely lost it.

College hockey has shifted over the past 20 years. As you know, seeing a team like Lake Superior State win three National Championships with 21-24 year old Canadiens from their Tier II leagues caused most programs to look for more experienced players. No longer is it normal to start at age 18.

On the other hand, there is still tremendous pressure for the University of Minnesota to recruit the top Minnesota players. You don't land Fischer, Okposo, Budish, and others by telling them to go play in the USHL for a year. Some other college is all too happy to take them right away.

If you are drafted in the first round you also have an NHL franchise in your ear. They are hoping to get you to the big show at some point in the not too distant future.

I don't think Lucia has 'lost his mind' as much as he's in a danged if you do, danged if you don't position. Maybe at least credit him a little bit for breaking the mindset that the Gophers have to be entirely Minnesotans. (Vanek, Kessel, others) Before him it was rare and 'imports' were usually in goal (John Blue, Frank Pieterangelo).

I have respect for Lucia as a coach also but what he has done from program management perspective is absurd at best. If you keep it a premier (put your own definition on that word) program (which it has been and in jeopardy of losing); recruit kids that have wanted to be gophers all their lives; make it a major privilege to play there by offering the best facilities and coaching a player can get (not..i.e. John Hill and Potulny with zero coaching experience); treat the players with respect, honesty, and dignity; Don't bow to any player regardless of how good they are or how manipulative their parents are; don't recruit your own kids; you can tell kids do do what ever you want before they get there.
My biggest concern is that the players and parents have lost respect for the history, tradition, and coaches. That is a bad combination and one that you can't get back.

O-townClown wrote:

muckandgrind wrote:...and don't get me wrong....I'm not trying to disrespect Gardiner in any way..it's just that I think Lucia has completely lost it.

College hockey has shifted over the past 20 years. As you know, seeing a team like Lake Superior State win three National Championships with 21-24 year old Canadiens from their Tier II leagues caused most programs to look for more experienced players. No longer is it normal to start at age 18.

On the other hand, there is still tremendous pressure for the University of Minnesota to recruit the top Minnesota players. You don't land Fischer, Okposo, Budish, and others by telling them to go play in the USHL for a year. Some other college is all too happy to take them right away.

If you are drafted in the first round you also have an NHL franchise in your ear. They are hoping to get you to the big show at some point in the not too distant future.

I don't think Lucia has 'lost his mind' as much as he's in a danged if you do, danged if you don't position. Maybe at least credit him a little bit for breaking the mindset that the Gophers have to be entirely Minnesotans. (Vanek, Kessel, others) Before him it was rare and 'imports' were usually in goal (John Blue, Frank Pieterangelo).

I believe Okposo did play at least a year in the USHL.

We can't keep making up excuses for Lucia....UND, Michigan, and Wisconsin are leaving the Gopher program in the dust. Heck, the UofM isn't even the best D1 program in the state at the moment. This program is going backwards.

It doesn't help the program to bring in kids who aren't ready to play at this level (i.e Aaron Ness). If the kid can't handle playing a year in the USHL to develop, then Lucia should have enough backbone to tell the kid "see ya". Who cares how highly touted a player is in High School. Do you think Red Berenger cares about that when he recruits? He picks the players that he believes are ready to contribute. Same with Mike Eaves and Dave Hakstol.

While Gardiner may be a little older than Ambroz (by months), Ambroz has been playing at a much higher level of hockey over the past couple of seasons, and playing very well. He is obviously very talented if he is slated to be drafted in the top 15 at next years draft....but he's not good enough to play for the U this year and Gardiner is?

I'm also concerned about Bjugstad. I think he would be better off playing a year of Juniors, but Lucia is afraid to tell him that. My fear is that Bjugstad struggles this year at the U, and for what? Florida will sign him thinking that they will do a better job developing him than Lucia will and he will be gone after his freshman season anyways.

muckandgrind wrote:

O-townClown wrote:

muckandgrind wrote:...and don't get me wrong....I'm not trying to disrespect Gardiner in any way..it's just that I think Lucia has completely lost it.

College hockey has shifted over the past 20 years. As you know, seeing a team like Lake Superior State win three National Championships with 21-24 year old Canadiens from their Tier II leagues caused most programs to look for more experienced players. No longer is it normal to start at age 18.

On the other hand, there is still tremendous pressure for the University of Minnesota to recruit the top Minnesota players. You don't land Fischer, Okposo, Budish, and others by telling them to go play in the USHL for a year. Some other college is all too happy to take them right away.

If you are drafted in the first round you also have an NHL franchise in your ear. They are hoping to get you to the big show at some point in the not too distant future.

I don't think Lucia has 'lost his mind' as much as he's in a danged if you do, danged if you don't position. Maybe at least credit him a little bit for breaking the mindset that the Gophers have to be entirely Minnesotans. (Vanek, Kessel, others) Before him it was rare and 'imports' were usually in goal (John Blue, Frank Pieterangelo).

I believe Okposo did play at least a year in the USHL.

We can't keep making up excuses for Lucia....UND, Michigan, and Wisconsin are leaving the Gopher program in the dust. Heck, the UofM isn't even the best D1 program in the state at the moment. This program is going backwards.

It doesn't help the program to bring in kids who aren't ready to play at this level (i.e Aaron Ness). If the kid can't handle playing a year in the USHL to develop, then Lucia should have enough backbone to tell the kid "see ya". Who cares how highly touted a player is in High School. Do you think Red Berenger cares about that when he recruits? He picks the players that he believes are ready to contribute. Same with Mike Eaves and Dave Hakstol.

While Gardiner may be a little older than Ambroz (by months), Ambroz has been playing at a much higher level of hockey over the past couple of seasons, and playing very well. He is obviously very talented if he is slated to be drafted in the top 15 at next years draft....but he's not good enough to play for the U this year and Gardiner is?

I'm also concerned about Bjugstad. I think he would be better off playing a year of Juniors, but Lucia is afraid to tell him that. My fear is that Bjugstad struggles this year at the U, and for what? Florida will sign him thinking that they will do a better job developing him than Lucia will and he will be gone after his freshman season anyways.

Okposo played for Des Moines for a year in the USHL and they won the cup. Vanek played in the USHL!! Come on.

Meanwhile...on other threads people are saying that kids should stay at their HS and don't need to leave for NTDP, the USHL, or other options.....

flatontheice wrote:
Okposo played for Des Moines for a year in the USHL and they won the cup. Vanek played in the USHL!! Come on.

92 points for Okposo as a 17-year-old at Shattuck, followed by a year in the USHL.

So Lucia should tell kids in HS to jump to the USHL before playing for him. Oh wait, people blast him when he does that?

My point is that he really can't please everyone here. Minnesota's best players are expected to be recruited by the U. He wanted Budish to play in the USHL after HS and people realize how foolish it would be to stick to his guns. The kids would just start going elsewhere.

O-townClown wrote:

flatontheice wrote:
Okposo played for Des Moines for a year in the USHL and they won the cup. Vanek played in the USHL!! Come on.

92 points for Okposo as a 17-year-old at Shattuck, followed by a year in the USHL.

So Lucia should tell kids in HS to jump to the USHL before playing for him. Oh wait, people blast him when he does that?

My point is that he really can't please everyone here. Minnesota's best players are expected to be recruited by the U. He wanted Budish to play in the USHL after HS and people realize how foolish it would be to stick to his guns. The kids would just start going elsewhere.

That's fine.....Because his current system of recruiting the "best" HS players isn't working...The fact that the Gophers have failed to even make the NCAA tourney the past two seasons is a testament to that..Either these players aren't ready to play as true freshman and/or they leave because the NHL would prefer to develop them on their own.....or is it because that Lucia's is simply not a good coach when it comes to developing young players??? I'm starting to believe that's the case.

I wouldn't "blast" Lucia to tell the HS kids to play in the USHL after HS graduation....I WANT him to do that. The top D1 programs in the country have very few "straight to college players" on their rosters. My bet is that Minnesota has a higher number than just about any other program of kids coming straight from high school to college.

Now I'm reading that Leddy may be signing a pro contract. Man, the Gophers were sure lucky to have him in uniform for that last year. What a contributor, huh? How much do you want to bet that Bjugstad bolts after next season as well?

The freshmen at University of Nebraska Omaha (last year) were 88s. One 87 and one 89. The teams end up being older too as they don't have as many early departures. Tough decisions.