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Can anyone confirm that this is true for all games with periods less than 15 minutes? If this is true, it is the offical end of the world as we know it. Why?

The penalties are really the same length... about 10% of the period.

Maverick1999 wrote:Can anyone confirm that this is true for all games with periods less than 15 minutes? If this is true, it is the offical end of the world as we know it. Why?

Why would anyone be AGAINST this idea. Mites and Squirts get what, 12 minute periods to begin with. There is a reason their periods are shorter. There is no valid reason a young mite or squirt should serve a 2 minute penalty (same length as college and pros who skate 20 minute periods). Further most association mites and squirts are still learning the rules, you don't penalize the same way you penalize professionals and colelgiates who've been playing for years and years. In AAA tourneys at this level you do see 2 minute penalties and that is jsutifaible because they skate 17 minute periods and the kids (atleast should be) are amongst their age levels more advanced players and have a better understanding of the game. Wisconsin has been at 1:30 penalties for this level for years, it actually floored me that MN would actually make a mite playing a 12 minute period serve a 2 minute penalty..........

It is a "penalty". The penalty for breaking the rules is 2 minutes. It has been like this for years and years. If you do not want to sit for 2 minutes do not break the rules. I could understand it for younger mites and maybe squirts, but not for PeeWee and Bantams.

"It's been like this for years and years" is never a good argument, for anything. You can just as easily argue that since it's been this way for years and years that it's been wrong for years and years.

Just because a rule has been in place for a long time doesn't make it right.

Just as much as "it's been like that for years and years" argument is never good for anything, The "rules are made to be broken" argument is just as weak. This is my own feeling, but here we are again, changing "rules" so that our kids do not have to pay the full consequence.

The "full" consequences of 2 minute penalties are/were based on full length periods. The idea and implementation of shorter periods for younger levels and/or modified games came along after the full consequence rules so to speak were made up. As the game becomes modified for whatever reason certain rules become modified along with it. It happens in all sports. A 2 minute minor penalty in the pros is 10% of the period, a justifiable amount of time for the infraction. 2 minutes in a 15 minute period game is 13.33% of the period, a 2 minute penalty in a 12 minute period (usually squirt and mite) is now 16.66% of that period. The amount of time in the penalty box becomes more and more out of whack with the length of the period the shorter the periods become if you do not make alterations. Pee Wee's are not high school, pro or college, nor do they play high school, pro or college periods. Why should they have to sit a significantly larger portion of their period (for the same but likely lesser degree infraction) when the rules are already modified for their age group in all other areas including length of period? I think the length of a minor penalty should somewhat correlate to the length of the period. 2 minute penalties for 20 minute periods, 1:45 for 17 minute periods, 1:30 for 15 minute periods and 1:15 for 12 minute periods. Atleast their would be some uniformity to the way it is done then.

That's not the argument I used.

You are using the words "broken" and "change" as if they mean the same thing. Which they don't.

Moving the penalties to 1:30 isn't "breaking" the rules, it's "changing" them.

To many people thinking of all these great ideas.

Another view is, just keep them at 2 minutes when they're young as to condition them against taking them when they're older.

What's the next new overthought great idea is coming?

mnhcp wrote:To many people thinking of all these great ideas.

Another view is, just keep them at 2 minutes when they're young as to condition them against taking them when they're older.

What's the next new overthought great idea is coming?

How is something that is as old and as accepted as modifying professional rules to fit young kids overthought?

Also, you wouldn't condition the kids any more or anyless using 2 minutes versus 1:30. They're kids and this isn't Pavlov's box

Maverick1999 wrote:It is a "penalty". The penalty for breaking the rules is 2 minutes. It has been like this for years and years. If you do not want to sit for 2 minutes do not break the rules. I could understand it for younger mites and maybe squirts, but not for PeeWee and Bantams.

Youth and high school penalties were 1:30 the 70's. I'm not sure when they switched to to 2:00. I had not watched a youth game for quite a few years and when I watched my nephew playing in the 80's I was surprised to see 2:00 penalties. Rules always change. Hockey used to have a Rover. The NHA dropped the Rover a 100 years ago and the NHL followed suit 93 years ago. Offsides has changed about 5 times since 1960. Remember 2 line (offside) passes. How about blue line icing in the late 70's and early 80's.

I think the idea is to get the kids back on the ice after minor penalties and not have them sitting out.

If you look at numbers of penalties per game in recent years (translated Standard of Play), I think you will see there are many more penalties in the last few years. This translates to much more time in power play/short handed situations.

Ultimately when we want to teach our game, it is not the special teams that should define the game, rather the ability to play a 5 on 5 game. By reducing the time of the penalty to 1:30, we continue to enforce Standard of Play which lets the skilled players play, while still teaching 5 on 5.

HockeyGuy81 wrote:"It's been like this for years and years" is never a good argument, for anything. You can just as easily argue that since it's been this way for years and years that it's been wrong for years and years.

Just because a rule has been in place for a long time doesn't make it right.

I couldn't agree more!

It happens in all sports.

That's not really true. Grade school basketball plays fewer minutes than college, but they still get 5 fouls - more fouls/minute. Peewee football may be played on a 60 yard field, but holding is still a 10 yard penalty - should it only be a 6 yard penalty. You don't get fewer yellow cards in a youth soccer game because the halves are shorter. You don't get 2 strikes instead of 3, because you only play 6 innings instead of 9.

Pavlov's box

Pavlov had dogs. Skinner had a box; he put his kid in it - for more than two minutes.

At $180-200+ an hour for ice, Im in favor of less sitting.

InigoMontoya wrote:

It happens in all sports.

That's not really true. Grade school basketball plays fewer minutes than college, but they still get 5 fouls - more fouls/minute. Peewee football may be played on a 60 yard field, but holding is still a 10 yard penalty - should it only be a 6 yard penalty. You don't get fewer yellow cards in a youth soccer game because the halves are shorter. You don't get 2 strikes instead of 3, because you only play 6 innings instead of 9.

Pavlov's box

Pavlov had dogs. Skinner had a box; he put his kid in it - for more than two minutes.

It does happen all the time as you said : They have 60 yard fields instead of 100, no leading off in baseball, no stealing until pitch crosses the plate, basketball you cannot press at youth level, soccer ... m... who cares.

It will be interesing to see how the game adapts because of this rule change. If the consequence of committing a penatly is not as severe as it used to be, it seems players would be apt to play the game a bit chippier. Will this lead to more major penalties and more injuries? Will the refs call the games tighter because of this? Will we see more penalties with fewer minutes per penalty so it's basically a wash? Will you actually see more 5-on-4 play as a result? My sense is that the season will start out this way, but that things will eventually sort themselves out and you'll likely have about the same number of penalties, but fewer overall minutes, by season's end. But I'm almost certain how things will start out because the reaction of every single PW and Bantam player I've told about this so far has been to the effect, "Cool, only a minute and-a-half in the box for each penalty?! I'm gonna go hit [check] someone. Tripping?? No big deal."

Also, will the Fair Play point system be updated accrodingly to account for this change?

The fair play point thresholds will not change.

sinbin wrote:It will be interesing to see how the game adapts because of this rule change. If the consequence of committing a penatly is not as severe as it used to be, it seems players would be apt to play the game a bit chippier. Will this lead to more major penalties and more injuries? Will the refs call the games tighter because of this? Will we see more penalties with fewer minutes per penalty so it's basically a wash? Will you actually see more 5-on-4 play as a result? My sense is that the season will start out this way, but that things will eventually sort themselves out and you'll likely have about the same number of penalties, but fewer overall minutes, by season's end. But I'm almost certain how things will start out because the reaction of every single PW and Bantam player I've told about this so far has been to the effect, "Cool, only a minute and-a-half in the box for each penalty?! I'm gonna go hit [check] someone. Tripping?? No big deal."

Also, will the Fair Play point system be updated accrodingly to account for this change?

Always going to be transition periods. That said, 1:30 is standard in most of the rest of the country at the asociation level and there is no correlation to "more chiipiness" anywhere else.

InigoMontoya wrote:

It happens in all sports.

That's not really true. Grade school basketball plays fewer minutes than college, but they still get 5 fouls - more fouls/minute. Peewee football may be played on a 60 yard field, but holding is still a 10 yard penalty - should it only be a 6 yard penalty. You don't get fewer yellow cards in a youth soccer game because the halves are shorter. You don't get 2 strikes instead of 3, because you only play 6 innings instead of 9.

Pavlov's box

Pavlov had dogs. Skinner had a box; he put his kid in it - for more than two minutes.

You actually just proved the point that rule modifcation does exist in ALL sports. Also, youth basketball has 8 foot rims, a smaler ball and gives 6 fouls not 5, atleast in the metro leagues down here it does. Baseball has a closer pitchers mound, shorter distance to bases, no leading off etc... Soccer has smaller fields, smaller balls, smaller goals, fewer players, up to age 10 they don't have offsides, etc.. etc... Football has 60 yard fields and actually in many areas they only have 5 yard penalties insead of ten. And a whole host of other modifications. Seems like you proved the pint instead of disproving it.

JSR wrote:

InigoMontoya wrote:

It happens in all sports.

That's not really true. Grade school basketball plays fewer minutes than college, but they still get 5 fouls - more fouls/minute. Peewee football may be played on a 60 yard field, but holding is still a 10 yard penalty - should it only be a 6 yard penalty. You don't get fewer yellow cards in a youth soccer game because the halves are shorter. You don't get 2 strikes instead of 3, because you only play 6 innings instead of 9.

Pavlov's box

Pavlov had dogs. Skinner had a box; he put his kid in it - for more than two minutes.

You actually just proved the point that rule modifcation does exist in ALL sports. Also, youth basketball has 8 foot rims, a smaler ball and gives 6 fouls not 5, atleast in the metro leagues down here it does. Baseball has a closer pitchers mound, shorter distance to bases, no leading off etc... Soccer has smaller fields, smaller balls, smaller goals, fewer players, up to age 10 they don't have offsides, etc.. etc... Football has 60 yard fields and actually in many areas they only have 5 yard penalties insead of ten. And a whole host of other modifications. Seems like you proved the pint instead of disproving it.

It doesn't prove your point at all. You are talking about reducing penalties because the game is shorter - that doesn't happen in any other sport that I'm aware of. Never seen a 5 yard holding penalty - offsides yes, but that is already 5 yards. Smaller balls and fields really doesn't pertain to what you were talking about. Still disappointed in you.

there is no correlation to "more chiipiness" anywhere else

The rest of the country did a chipiness study?

InigoMontoya wrote:

JSR wrote:

InigoMontoya wrote: That's not really true. Grade school basketball plays fewer minutes than college, but they still get 5 fouls - more fouls/minute. Peewee football may be played on a 60 yard field, but holding is still a 10 yard penalty - should it only be a 6 yard penalty. You don't get fewer yellow cards in a youth soccer game because the halves are shorter. You don't get 2 strikes instead of 3, because you only play 6 innings instead of 9.

Pavlov had dogs. Skinner had a box; he put his kid in it - for more than two minutes.

You actually just proved the point that rule modifcation does exist in ALL sports. Also, youth basketball has 8 foot rims, a smaler ball and gives 6 fouls not 5, atleast in the metro leagues down here it does. Baseball has a closer pitchers mound, shorter distance to bases, no leading off etc... Soccer has smaller fields, smaller balls, smaller goals, fewer players, up to age 10 they don't have offsides, etc.. etc... Football has 60 yard fields and actually in many areas they only have 5 yard penalties insead of ten. And a whole host of other modifications. Seems like you proved the pint instead of disproving it.

It doesn't prove your point at all. You are talking about reducing penalties because the game is shorter - that doesn't happen in any other sport that I'm aware of. Never seen a 5 yard holding penalty - offsides yes, but that is already 5 yards. Smaller balls and fields really doesn't pertain to what you were talking about. Still disappointed in you.

Almost all the sports have shorter periods or halves. Please name the other sports where penalties are given in "minutes" besides hockey in it's differnet forms...... I know one, LaCrosse, that has time served penalties sort of liek hockey, guess what, at the U10 youth level they actually don't serve time penalties at all, if the player committs and infraction that player must be substituted for and the ball awarded to the other team but the player can come back at the vey next substitution opportunity and they do not have a man advatnage at any point yet they do in the college, pros and high schooll etc.... So I guess there not only are the periods shorter but the eliminated the length of the penalty altogether. There aren't many sports with time served penalties that give a man advantage, especially noteable ones in this country. My point was that rules are modified all over the place, including penalties, in all youth sports, this is definitively proven. FYI the town I live in has 5 yard holding penalties in our youth football league in the town I live in. Just because you haven't seen it doesnt' mean it doesn't exist. I'm actually the one that is disappointed here.....

InigoMontoya wrote:

there is no correlation to "more chiipiness" anywhere else

The rest of the country did a chipiness study?

Again thank you for proving my point. The idea that 1:30 will lead to "more chippiness" is unproven and obsurd yet it's being thrown around like fact.

Maverick1999 wrote:Can anyone confirm that this is true for all games with periods less than 15 minutes? If this is true, it is the offical end of the world as we know it. Why?

I tell you what, if we play your team, your kids can take 2:00 penalties, and ours will do the 1:30.

Just kidding with you.