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Body -

I would like to presume you still are getting inside info in the program, but I wanted to get your take on the new arena, and the designing.

I had early conversations with Mark Bigelbach, who was the main person that got the whole arena concept going, and saw its way to conclusion. In our conversations a couple years ago - before it was approved, we discussed the design, and I reiterated how important it is to the WBL contingency to have seating on both sides.

Mark told me the project would have cost in excess of $1M more for the seating on both sides, such as a Stillwater or Roseville, and the project was maxed out budget-wise. I pleaded that WBL needed a facility like that with the full intent to benefit the student section, as it has for years shown the pride in WBL hockey more than any other school on a game-to-game basis - did not matter how far the travel. I have seen 3-4 dozen fans drive to Fargo to cheer the team.

For the past couple years after this project was being approved, all Coach Sager talked about was raising money for the locker rooms... and the importance it had to the program. "Locker rooms this.. locker rooms that".. So, he stressed the value and I am sure he had 100% input into helping in the design of the locker rooms.

So, my question is :

Didn't Coach (insert favorite nickname here) have ANY input of the design of the seating, or how could he allow for an arena to not be as fan-friendly as it could have been - especially when he sees arenas in Roseville, Stillwater, Aldrich - and for that matter, I heard Forest Lake's is even better?

I have yet to step foot in that arena, but with pictures, talking to youth coaches, a couple parents, and seeing the response by those that have been there, it's awful.

Were the locker rooms all he cared about?

Now, you want to blame the coach for the design of the building? I would bet most coaches would have input on the locker room and the rest is up to the architects, contactors and people in charge of the project.

I have no idea about the WBL arena. I do have a gripe about a lot of the modern arenas though: They are too bland, too uniform, too unassuming. I especially hate when build two arenas side by side with each rink under one slant of the roof. It can't cost that much more to build a real "main rink", not a main rink that just has more seating, one with a little charecter, if only that it is its own rink..... my half a cent on the matter.

mulefarm wrote:Now, you want to blame the coach for the design of the building? I would bet most coaches would have input on the locker room and the rest is up to the architects, contactors and people in charge of the project.

Muley... not blaming Sager for the design. But, it is a fair question to ask, considering the building was built more for the HS programs.

If you re-read my post, I mentioned Mark Bigelbach. If Sager is having input into the locker rooms, I am asking if Bigelbach ever asked for input or if Sager ever stepped in with opinions in the seating process. Architects aside, I think it's logical to expect the people using the facility should have input. You cannot deny the complaints. I haven't even heard one person say they love the arena. The best I have heard is "it's alright"... I have even heard the acoustics are subpar.

From what I am hearing, it's a below average fan venue.. what are supposed to be the best seats, appear to be obstructed.

Bodyshots is involved in the financial industry and is more in tune with the program, and am hoping he can shed light to all of us for better explanations.

Believe me muley, I would love to blame Sager for this and the amount of snow we have had, but not even I can.

In fact, how about this shocker?? I like the new uniforms I have seen!! He did a nice job on those.

defense wrote:I have no idea about the WBL arena. I do have a gripe about a lot of the modern arenas though: They are too bland, too uniform, too unassuming. I especially hate when build two arenas side by side with each rink under one slant of the roof. It can't cost that much more to build a real "main rink", not a main rink that just has more seating, one with a little charecter, if only that it is its own rink..... my half a cent on the matter.

I agree. I have seen plenty of arenas go up recently and have stands on one side and it is quite silly. Especially when you were playing at an arena with them on both sides...did Aldrich not want them playing there anymore, or is the new one on campus?

HShockeywatcher wrote:

defense wrote:I have no idea about the WBL arena. I do have a gripe about a lot of the modern arenas though: They are too bland, too uniform, too unassuming. I especially hate when build two arenas side by side with each rink under one slant of the roof. It can't cost that much more to build a real "main rink", not a main rink that just has more seating, one with a little charecter, if only that it is its own rink..... my half a cent on the matter.

I agree. I have seen plenty of arenas go up recently and have stands on one side and it is quite silly. Especially when you were playing at an arena with them on both sides...did Aldrich not want them playing there anymore, or is the new one on campus?

Watchie, I don't know 100% of the details, and maybe Bodyshots can elaborate, but the location is on Hwy 61 and County Road E in WBL, across from Tousley Ford. Great location. It's maybe a mile from the South Campus and a couple miles from the North Campus.

The intent, from what I understand, was to help create 1) A HS venue 2) create more ice time with the amount of kids in the program. Prior to this year, the boys and girls HS teams would alternate on a monthly basis who had access to the Sports Center for practice times. Having two sheets together allows for the HS locker rooms to be used the entire season vs half the time at the Sports Center, and the next month carrying the gear in their cars.

Prior to this year, WBL had the Sports Center and Ramsey County Arena in WBL as the main rinks for home venues for the youth. The new arena was also going to add better concessions and tournament venues, plus, there is a dome attached, that is supposed to be the largest in the area for indoor sports.. (That collapsed-deflated during the snow storm).

The Sports Center contractually has to allocate x-amount of ice time to the WBL figure skating club, and what was happening was that many teams were forced to start having practices all over St. Paul.. at Johnson, Highland, Biff Adams - you name it, because there wasn't enough ice time in town.

However, in talking to one of the youth coaches, it sounds like the City of WBL was not happy with the new arena being built in Vadnais, and when I asked this coach if there are more games being held at the Sports Center (much needed concession revenue) now vs County, he told me the City sold the majority - if not ALL- the ice time to Mahtomedi, as well as the County arena in WBL, and now, this team has less ice time than last year.

I was understanding that creating the new venue was to put money into the HS program with ticket revenue and less rent expense. Rent was ridiculous at Aldrich, as Bodyshots was highly involved on the financial end in the past and can explain more. I don't know how much of the gate receipts the HS program got at Aldrich, but I believe Body said it cost the program $1400 per night to rent.

The new arena initially had a prior location that fell thru as the land was not developable, and it was initially planned to share with Mounds View, as Bigelbach's kids go to MV. I do not know why sharing with MV fell thru.

To me, it made more sense to have $$ taken away from the dome - I don't think it was necessary to build the "biggest dome" - and put it in to the rink seating, as there would be more revenue generated for all the Moose Goheen tourney games, plus HS boys and girls.

Initially, about 3 years ago, the steam was that the YMCA in WBL had offered to build 3 sheets of ice attached to their complex. The main focus was that a minority owner of the Minnesota Wild was a WBL resident, and the proposal was that the Wild would use that facility as a practice arena. Somehow, if I remember correctly, either someone from the hockey association or the City didn't attend a proposal meeting, and the project basically was dropped immediately.

I don't know the seating capacity at Stillwater or Roseville, but those venues, along with Aldrich are fan friendly. Obviously Aldrich is a great venue, but I always loved watching a game at Stillwater's rink, whether youth or HS.

The positive note is that atleast WBL can have a home rink.

For those who have been to both rinks, is this new rink like East Ridge's down in Cottage Grove?

After Hill went up 3-0, my buddy turned to me and said, "I'm getting to like this place." So at least one person likes it.

I would think capacity is enough for most boys home games. Now, I'll beat this dead horse again: Even if Aldrich is (just guessing here) $1K per night more in rent, isn't that made up for by selling another 1,200 adult and 1,000 student tickets? That's over $10,000. And if they want to make money on the concessions, which I'm sure Aldrich keeps, why did they have only three people working at the stand during the Hill game? I saw one person taking money/orders, one person getting food, and one person watching. The line was long all night, and when people see how long the line is, a lot of them just give up. Did they not think the Hill game would sell out? Two or three more volunteers would have meant a large increase in sales.

East Side Pioneer Guy wrote:After Hill went up 3-0, my buddy turned to me and said, "I'm getting to like this place." So at least one person likes it.

I would think capacity is enough for most boys home games. Now, I'll beat this dead horse again: Even if Aldrich is (just guessing here) $1K per night more in rent, isn't that made up for by selling another 1,200 adult and 1,000 student tickets? That's over $10,000. And if they want to make money on the concessions, which I'm sure Aldrich keeps, why did they have only three people working at the stand during the Hill game? I saw one person taking money/orders, one person getting food, and one person watching. The line was long all night, and when people see how long the line is, a lot of them just give up. Did they not think the Hill game would sell out? Two or three more volunteers would have meant a large increase in sales.

Different thread--same questions--the answer is still the same--WBL gets none of the ticket revenue at Aldrich

And Section tournaments, do they keep none of the ticket revenue at Aldrich? Why would any section games be at Aldrich, if that were the case? I don't know about this year, but I know that in years past there were Schwan's Cup games at Aldrich. I can't believe Aldrich kept all of the revenue from that tournament. I'm still not buying it. Guess I'm just a little bullheaded on this.

Sections keep the revenue minus expenses then disperse that money among its member schools. Sections look for a balance between keeping expenses down and maximizing attendance, For example 1AA and 1A used to play their finals at Mariucci which ran about $10,000 in rent, they didn't get much for attendance, maybe 2500 - 4000 combined. They switched to the Rec Center in Rochester at less than a $1000 a night over 2 nights and get 5000+ in attendance combined.

GFD, are you calling me out? I guess I should bring back the "Who hates GFD" post.

I'm obviously not as involved as I used to be, but here are a couple of my comments/thoughts on the new arena.

1. The location is great. It's right between the two high schools (North and South) and minutes from the heart of WBL.

2. I believe the Youth Association had more to do with building the new arena, than the high school did. As you know, driving to Westside, Phalen, Harding, Biff Adams, or even Aldrich for practices sucked. The toughest part was finding bars near these far off locations. Now the parents can walk to the local establishment only steps away.

3. Is the seating great....no. But it is not as bad as some are saying. As Medley mentioned in another post, the benches on the main side creates viewing through multiple plexi glass in certain locations. I have not seen any obstructed view seats. No pillars in your way like they have at Heritage in Duluth. As nice as that arena is, I couldn't believe standing behind the top row and looking each direction only to be obstructed by pillars on both sides.

4. I heard the concession stand is owned and operated by SAKS. If this is true, then the youth association will miss out on some extra income during their Moose Goheen tournaments. But, with two rinks, they can now increase the number of teams for each tournament, which will increase revenue with entry fees. As for the High School, I would think SAKS would get all revenue they generate from the concession stand as well. But as I said previously, the cost to play at Aldrich was way more than it costs to play at the new facility.

5. The capacity is fine. In the past serveral years, the only game that would be affected by the reduced capacity (from Aldrich), is the HM game. There will be plenty of seating for every other game. The smaller facility, makes for a more exciting environment, both for HS and Youth games.

6. Opportunities abound due to the new two rink arena. As mentioned earlier, more teams for youth tournaments, more ice time close to home, and hopefully, District 2 will have a rotating district tournament between Tartan, St Croix, and WBL. The bubble at Tartan is the worst environment to observe a hockey game.

Just a couple of my thoughts. Good to see you back on line.

BodyShots wrote:
3. Is the seating great....no. But it is not as bad as some are saying. As Medley mentioned in another post, the benches on the main side creates viewing through multiple plexi glass in certain locations. I have not seen any obstructed view seats. No pillars in your way like they have at Heritage in Duluth. As nice as that arena is, I couldn't believe standing behind the top row and looking each direction only to be obstructed by pillars on both sides.

At the Heritage, if you sit on the other side where the majority of seating is, there are no pillars. What were you doing on the wrong side, anyway?

Lee

east hockey wrote:

BodyShots wrote:
3. Is the seating great....no. But it is not as bad as some are saying. As Medley mentioned in another post, the benches on the main side creates viewing through multiple plexi glass in certain locations. I have not seen any obstructed view seats. No pillars in your way like they have at Heritage in Duluth. As nice as that arena is, I couldn't believe standing behind the top row and looking each direction only to be obstructed by pillars on both sides.

At the Heritage, if you sit on the other side where the majority of seating is, there are no pillars. What were you doing on the wrong side, anyway?

Lee

Generally I go to DuLuth in the hockey off-season...I'd love to be there for hockey, it just hasn't happened...anyway in the off season is it possible to look around the Heritage rink???

BodyShots wrote:GFD, are you calling me out? I guess I should bring back the "Who hates GFD" post.

2. I believe the Youth Association had more to do with building the new arena, than the high school did. As you know, driving to Westside, Phalen, Harding, Biff Adams, or even Aldrich for practices sucked. The toughest part was finding bars near these far off locations. Now the parents can walk to the local establishment only steps away.

The truth finally comes OUT! You win the Humor Points for this week.

Body.... you know I wouldn't call you out... I was merely sending the Batsignal...

Besides, you're bigger... stronger...smarter... faster..better looking...and richer... wouldn't even dreaaammm of it!!

I am glad you find the arena serviceable, but as you saw my post, some teams have LESS ice time, because County and The Sports Center sold majority to Mahtomedi..

AND, I think you might have forgot that District 2s hatred towards WBL may prevent them from ever gettng any of the District games.