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FL 4 - Roseville 1

Eden Prairie 2
Stillwater 6

Scrimmages

Bloomington Jefferson 3 Roseville 2
Bloomington Jefferson 6 Moundsview 3

Score from 10/18
Osseo/Maple Grove-7
Eden Prairie-3

Game was played at Eden Prairie, three 15 minute stop time periods.

Eden Prairie and Osseo/Maple Grove played each other in the West Regional last year. The Eagles won 2-0 to end OMG’s season. The next day, the Eagles lost 4-3 to Wayzata to end their season. It seems fitting that the two teams would play each other early in this season. Eden Prairie is loaded this year with returning players, but played the first two periods of this game short 2 forwards. OMG has four returning players.

The first period had a fairly normal start. EP jumped off to a quick lead with a hard semi-rap around goal that slid on the ice and under the OMG goal in the first minute. After that, it became a up-and-down game until late in the first period, the first checking penalty was called on EP. That period ended 1-0, and the lack of checking started to show its impact on the game.

The second period started the same as the first. EP scored in the first minute to take a 2-0 lead and then OMG’s forwards took over. When the puck was along the boards, scrums started to appear as kids failed to pinch and instead poked at the puck with the stick. Better puck handlers would quickly move away from the board and once in more open ice, carry the puck through reaching defenders eventually skating to the goal edge to take a shot. A rebound lose in front of the net would produce a scrum with 5 or 6 kids waving their sticks trying to get control.

OMG’s forward got the best of it and scored 4 unanswered goals. Though there were 3 or 4 penalties, there no set up on power plays and little passing to control the zone. A defender would get control the puck, skate to an open area around reaching kids sticks and fire the puck up ice.

Last year these two defensive oriented teams allowed very few clear breaks in their defense inside the face off circles, tonight that was the norm as wing and center would skate into the goalie and fire away.

Eden Prairie got their two players back at the start of the third period and scored a goal four minutes into the period to narrow OMG's lead to 4-3. But OMG came back, controlling the puck down low behind EP's net and twice passing to a breaking forward as the EP defense could not poke check the puck of the OMG kids stick and were afraid to play the body for fear of picking up a checking penalty. The final score was 7-3.

The third period was like watching men’s hockey.

I don’t know about peewee A hockey this season. But if this game is any indication, goal tending will win out. Kids will pass little and skate a lot because they can easily breakdown the defense with a little stick handling. What little passing will be long passes as kids get more time with the puck on the stick especially in the third period. Coaches will be "tearing their hair out trying to teach the kids hockey".

Doesn’t that sound like men’s hockey? Men’s hockey is fun for the players, but is boring to watch.

E.P. Should have a / or GEART goalies, I know one young man , and he is a player!!!! [Played on my son's 98 Nat team] So I saw him STOP shots....###########'s

frederick61 wrote:Score from 10/18
Osseo/Maple Grove-7
Eden Prairie-3

Game was played at Eden Prairie, three 15 minute stop time periods.

Eden Prairie and Osseo/Maple Grove played each other in the West Regional last year. The Eagles won 2-0 to end OMG’s season. The next day, the Eagles lost 4-3 to Wayzata to end their season. It seems fitting that the two teams would play each other early in this season. Eden Prairie is loaded this year with returning players, but played the first two periods of this game short 2 forwards. OMG has four returning players.

The first period had a fairly normal start. EP jumped off to a quick lead with a hard semi-rap around goal that slid on the ice and under the OMG goal in the first minute. After that, it became a up-and-down game until late in the first period, the first checking penalty was called on EP. That period ended 1-0, and the lack of checking started to show its impact on the game.

The second period started the same as the first. EP scored in the first minute to take a 2-0 lead and then OMG’s forwards took over. When the puck was along the boards, scrums started to appear as kids failed to pinch and instead poked at the puck with the stick. Better puck handlers would quickly move away from the board and once in more open ice, carry the puck through reaching defenders eventually skating to the goal edge to take a shot. A rebound lose in front of the net would produce a scrum with 5 or 6 kids waving their sticks trying to get control.

OMG’s forward got the best of it and scored 4 unanswered goals. Though there were 3 or 4 penalties, there no set up on power plays and little passing to control the zone. A defender would get control the puck, skate to an open area around reaching kids sticks and fire the puck up ice.

Last year these two defensive oriented teams allowed very few clear breaks in their defense inside the face off circles, tonight that was the norm as wing and center would skate into the goalie and fire away.

Eden Prairie got their two players back at the start of the third period and scored a goal four minutes into the period to narrow OMG's lead to 4-3. But OMG came back, controlling the puck down low behind EP's net and twice passing to a breaking forward as the EP defense could not poke check the puck of the OMG kids stick and were afraid to play the body for fear of picking up a checking penalty. The final score was 7-3.

The third period was like watching men’s hockey.

I don’t know about peewee A hockey this season. But if this game is any indication, goal tending will win out. Kids will pass little and skate a lot because they can easily breakdown the defense with a little stick handling. What little passing will be long passes as kids get more time with the puck on the stick especially in the third period. Coaches will be "tearing their hair out trying to teach the kids hockey".

Doesn’t that sound like men’s hockey? Men’s hockey is fun for the players, but is boring to watch.

Keep in mind EP's two best players are hurt. Good luck in the rematch.

Irish wrote:

frederick61 wrote:Score from 10/18
Osseo/Maple Grove-7
Eden Prairie-3

Game was played at Eden Prairie, three 15 minute stop time periods.

Eden Prairie and Osseo/Maple Grove played each other in the West Regional last year. The Eagles won 2-0 to end OMG’s season. The next day, the Eagles lost 4-3 to Wayzata to end their season. It seems fitting that the two teams would play each other early in this season. Eden Prairie is loaded this year with returning players, but played the first two periods of this game short 2 forwards. OMG has four returning players.

The first period had a fairly normal start. EP jumped off to a quick lead with a hard semi-rap around goal that slid on the ice and under the OMG goal in the first minute. After that, it became a up-and-down game until late in the first period, the first checking penalty was called on EP. That period ended 1-0, and the lack of checking started to show its impact on the game.

The second period started the same as the first. EP scored in the first minute to take a 2-0 lead and then OMG’s forwards took over. When the puck was along the boards, scrums started to appear as kids failed to pinch and instead poked at the puck with the stick. Better puck handlers would quickly move away from the board and once in more open ice, carry the puck through reaching defenders eventually skating to the goal edge to take a shot. A rebound lose in front of the net would produce a scrum with 5 or 6 kids waving their sticks trying to get control.

OMG’s forward got the best of it and scored 4 unanswered goals. Though there were 3 or 4 penalties, there no set up on power plays and little passing to control the zone. A defender would get control the puck, skate to an open area around reaching kids sticks and fire the puck up ice.

Last year these two defensive oriented teams allowed very few clear breaks in their defense inside the face off circles, tonight that was the norm as wing and center would skate into the goalie and fire away.

Eden Prairie got their two players back at the start of the third period and scored a goal four minutes into the period to narrow OMG's lead to 4-3. But OMG came back, controlling the puck down low behind EP's net and twice passing to a breaking forward as the EP defense could not poke check the puck of the OMG kids stick and were afraid to play the body for fear of picking up a checking penalty. The final score was 7-3.

The third period was like watching men’s hockey.

I don’t know about peewee A hockey this season. But if this game is any indication, goal tending will win out. Kids will pass little and skate a lot because they can easily breakdown the defense with a little stick handling. What little passing will be long passes as kids get more time with the puck on the stick especially in the third period. Coaches will be "tearing their hair out trying to teach the kids hockey".

Doesn’t that sound like men’s hockey? Men’s hockey is fun for the players, but is boring to watch.

Keep in mind EP's two best players are hurt. Good luck in the rematch.

Mr.Irish, relax its early in the season. EP will be just fine it's only 2 scrimmages in.

Curios though, are the two best players you speak of your goalies?

frederick61 wrote:Score from 10/18
Osseo/Maple Grove-7
Eden Prairie-3

Game was played at Eden Prairie, three 15 minute stop time periods.

Eden Prairie and Osseo/Maple Grove played each other in the West Regional last year. The Eagles won 2-0 to end OMG’s season. The next day, the Eagles lost 4-3 to Wayzata to end their season. It seems fitting that the two teams would play each other early in this season. Eden Prairie is loaded this year with returning players, but played the first two periods of this game short 2 forwards. OMG has four returning players.

The first period had a fairly normal start. EP jumped off to a quick lead with a hard semi-rap around goal that slid on the ice and under the OMG goal in the first minute. After that, it became a up-and-down game until late in the first period, the first checking penalty was called on EP. That period ended 1-0, and the lack of checking started to show its impact on the game.

The second period started the same as the first. EP scored in the first minute to take a 2-0 lead and then OMG’s forwards took over. When the puck was along the boards, scrums started to appear as kids failed to pinch and instead poked at the puck with the stick. Better puck handlers would quickly move away from the board and once in more open ice, carry the puck through reaching defenders eventually skating to the goal edge to take a shot. A rebound lose in front of the net would produce a scrum with 5 or 6 kids waving their sticks trying to get control.

OMG’s forward got the best of it and scored 4 unanswered goals. Though there were 3 or 4 penalties, there no set up on power plays and little passing to control the zone. A defender would get control the puck, skate to an open area around reaching kids sticks and fire the puck up ice.

Last year these two defensive oriented teams allowed very few clear breaks in their defense inside the face off circles, tonight that was the norm as wing and center would skate into the goalie and fire away.

Eden Prairie got their two players back at the start of the third period and scored a goal four minutes into the period to narrow OMG's lead to 4-3. But OMG came back, controlling the puck down low behind EP's net and twice passing to a breaking forward as the EP defense could not poke check the puck of the OMG kids stick and were afraid to play the body for fear of picking up a checking penalty. The final score was 7-3.

The third period was like watching men’s hockey.

I don’t know about peewee A hockey this season. But if this game is any indication, goal tending will win out. Kids will pass little and skate a lot because they can easily breakdown the defense with a little stick handling. What little passing will be long passes as kids get more time with the puck on the stick especially in the third period. Coaches will be "tearing their hair out trying to teach the kids hockey".

Doesn’t that sound like men’s hockey? Men’s hockey is fun for the players, but is boring to watch.

F61 - what did you think of the Kelly kid for OMG? I saw him play at Velocity and I thought he was the best Peewee in the tournament. He shoots the puck like an advanced bantam and skates well too. I assume he played for OMG PWA's last season and made some noise. OMG actually had a couple of big kids with skills that looked like bantams. Sorry to stray away from scores. After all, that's what this thread is titled.

Fred: I can't tell if the no-check thing was bad in your view? But you say more offense was created and players had the puck on their stick making plays and firing shots on goal? Is this a bad thing or is the new rule returning the game to skill not the biggest thug wins?

Too many people think that rules that allow Tommy toe drag to continue his puck hog habits is skill development. Checking speeds up the game since kids need to pass the puck quickly to prevent losing the puck from a nice check. The skills that are being neglected are quick decision making, passing, checking, puck protection, and getting open. So F tommy toe drag can beat three kids with stickhandling and that is skill? It is at the cost of hockey skills they will need as they progress.

USA hockey should of penalized bad checking more severe - which would minimized the blatant charging and head shots that they showed in their videos.

They also found a way to get more time and money from me this year which is a totally different subject!

Snoopdog asked "F61 - what did you think of the Kelly kid for OMG? I saw him play at Velocity and I thought he was the best Peewee in the tournament. He shoots the puck like an advanced bantam and skates well too. I assume he played for OMG PWA's last season and made some noise. OMG actually had a couple of big kids with skills that looked like bantams. Sorry to stray away from scores. After all, that's what this thread is titled."

I don't comment on individual kids during the season except to say things like a certain team may have the best player in the state. But I will say this after last night, a bigger kid playing defense will have to have exceptional stick handling skills and quickness. If he doesn't he will be beat often because he can't use his size in the open ice. There could be one exception to that. That is when a forward tries to bully the puck through the defense and initiates contact.

BadgerBob82 wrote:Fred: I can't tell if the no-check thing was bad in your view? But you say more offense was created and players had the puck on their stick making plays and firing shots on goal? Is this a bad thing or is the new rule returning the game to skill not the biggest thug wins?

I tend to agree with Toomuchtoosoon, but it is early in the season. What I saw last night maybe just one game that is an exception. But what disappoints me is that the overall quality of play I have grown to expect from these two teams was lacking and it is not like the kids aren't listening to the coaches.

My initial reaction is to attribute the poor play to kids having been used to playing a high speed game that includes checking and that results in fighting for position and puck control. I hope they will adjust and continue to develop as players. My fear is this game (was about reaching and poke checking) maybe where peewee A hockey ends up this year. Hence the comment about watching a men's league game at 6:00 AM. Remember most men's league games are no check.

Regarding the no checking. Might be early in the season and the kids, coaches and refs are reverting to "no touch" hockey. But my thought and hope is kids will continue to "play the body" not the puck defensively. The only difference being the defensive player can't finish with a big brutal "body check".

As I see it, there have been many "bigger" players over the years that played the game like a heat seeking missile. They would pursue the puck carrier like a linebacker and run the kid over or miss because of poor foot skills.

I will continue teaching defenders to play the body, only when he gets to the point of contact, it can't be the big hit. But they will battle for space and my guy will be attempting to get his body between the puck carrier and the puck.

"Tommy toe drag" will still have to skate around my defender because my player will not be playing the puck. Any "checking" will be because "Tommy toe drag" ran my guy over.

But the player that can't move his feet will be left in the dust! This rule might make him a reasonably servicable player come high school.

It will really depends on how the refs interpret the rule changes, how you can take the body. From what i have seen so far, looks like alot of bad habits will be continued or started especially skating with your head down. The style of play looks like squirts , i tend to agree with toomuch. Bob good defensive players tend to finish the play by taking away the opponents hands and getting puck control, not a brutal check as you would describe.

It is early in the season but I would watch the following at a peewee game with the following in mind:

1. An aggressive forward splitting the defense since most defensive kids will try to play the puck while skating backwards and not the body.

2. More “stick scrums” along the board as kids not wanting to check the body will poke at the puck.

3. More “stick scrums” in front of the net on rebounds. Again kids not wanting to check the body but play the puck.

4. Offensive players able to control the puck behind the defense goal line with more impunity because players will not be willing to play the body contact (more goals scored from kids breaking in the slot).

5. More smaller kids sliding under bigger kids and continuing the play because they know they can’t be hit.

6. More end to end rushes with shots on goal.

7. Longer passes to kids “semi-cherry picking”.

8. Higher scoring games.

9. Lack of importance of the power play since the majority of the peewee teams will never get set in the offensive zone.

If these things become the norm in peewee A hockey, then one know's the impact of no checking. If they don't become the norm, then one know's the impact of no checking was minimal.

One final point, in this type of game, the weaker teams will be unable to compete.

frederick61 wrote:It is early in the season but I would watch the following at a peewee game with the following in mind:

1. An aggressive forward splitting the defense since most defensive kids will try to play the puck while skating backwards and not the body.

2. More “stick scrums” along the board as kids not wanting to check the body will poke at the puck.

3. More “stick scrums” in front of the net on rebounds. Again kids not wanting to check the body but play the puck.

4. Offensive players able to control the puck behind the defense goal line with more impunity because players will not be willing to play the body contact (more goals scored from kids breaking in the slot).

5. More smaller kids sliding under bigger kids and continuing the play because they know they can’t be hit.

6. More end to end rushes with shots on goal.

7. Longer passes to kids “semi-cherry picking”.

8. Higher scoring games.

9. Lack of importance of the power play since the majority of the peewee teams will never get set in the offensive zone.

If these things become the norm in peewee A hockey, then one know's the impact of no checking. If they don't become the norm, then one know's the impact of no checking was minimal.

One final point, in this type of game, the weaker teams will be unable to compete.

First I agree with everything your saying and I am against the rule change. BUT when you say weaker teams will be unable to compete isn't a good argument ... by definition they are weaker. If your saying the great equilizer is hitting then that reminds me of the parents yelling HITTEM when there team is getting beat by better teams.

Fred: Once again, I can't tell if its your opinion your list are good or bad? And I don't understand #9 as I think special teams has always been important and potentially game changing. Nor do I understand the cherry picking reference.

I can't imagine one person looking at your list and saying these things will ruin the game. I mean, more scoring, more Bobby Orr style end to end rushes, more offensive play making, smaller kids being able to stay in the game longer. Seems to me you forgot to list fewer career ending injuries for 12 year olds. Think of the added game time without the injury delays?

For 2112, You are correct about a "good defensive player"! But ever see a bad skating, "huge" pee-wee player running around the rink with impunity hitting kids only because he was bigger? Now this player will need to improve skating and puck skills to stay with the game!

Silentbutdeadly asked: “First I agree with everything your saying and I am against the rule change. BUT when you say weaker teams will be unable to compete isn't a good argument ... by definition they are weaker. If your saying the great equilizer is hitting then that reminds me of the parents yelling HITTEM when there team is getting beat by better teams”.

Where I was headed with that comment is that a weaker team at the start of the season with good coaching could learn to use the body to contain a faster skating team. Eden Prairie versus Edina is a prime example. Usually these two teams play each other twice around the Feb 1 and the games are always close low scoring games.

Edina usually has the better skaters at the start of the season, but Eden Prairie has always developed a tough physical style of play during the season that would make those games close. There is no call for “hittem” here because EP’s play, though physical, was still solid hockey for peewee aged kids.

The real question posed is, “what is the alternative for a team that is solid, but lacks the quick skating and stick handling?” Checking exists in hockey for a reason and people tend to forget that when there is a “hittem” on the ice and want to blame the checking. It is an easy thing to do.

frederick61 wrote:Silentbutdeadly asked: “First I agree with everything your saying and I am against the rule change. BUT when you say weaker teams will be unable to compete isn't a good argument ... by definition they are weaker. If your saying the great equilizer is hitting then that reminds me of the parents yelling HITTEM when there team is getting beat by better teams”.

Where I was headed with that comment is that a weaker team at the start of the season with good coaching could learn to use the body to contain a faster skating team. Eden Prairie versus Edina is a prime example. Usually these two teams play each other twice around the Feb 1 and the games are always close low scoring games.

Edina usually has the better skaters at the start of the season, but Eden Prairie has always developed a tough physical style of play during the season that would make those games close. There is no call for “hittem” here because EP’s play, though physical, was still solid hockey for peewee aged kids.

The real question posed is, “what is the alternative for a team that is solid, but lacks the quick skating and stick handling?” Checking exists in hockey for a reason and people tend to forget that when there is a “hittem” on the ice and want to blame the checking. It is an easy thing to do.

Although I am no fan of the rule I think the alternative for a team that is solid but lacks the Quick Skating and stick handling is to teach those kids to skate and to stickhandle. That is what the ADM is trying to do to hockey. Not all bad is it?

Fred, I'll go you one further. The NHL "changed" the rules or enforced the rule book to try to eliminate "clutch and grab" tactics used by lesser skilled players against higher skilled players. Some dinosaurs were forced into early retirement, but for the most part, players relearned how to "play hockey".

I hope I am miss reading that you advocate lesser skilled teams employing physical play or "checking" as a way to be able to "play" with or slow down skilled teams.

I say this because in past posts you seem to be a big advocate of associations with "B" level teams competing at the "A" level. You have intimated that these "weak" associations deserve the right to play "A" level teams as a way to "get better"? I fear you are indicating physical play is the equalizer to skilled play? In other words, you would forget about raising the skill level of players if physical play can stifle higher skilled players?

Bob,
What part of the ADM model applies to peewees? I thought that the ADM model ended for most association kids at the mite level.

But ever see a bad skating, "huge" pee-wee player running around the rink with impunity hitting kids only because he was bigger? Now this player will need to improve skating and puck skills to stay with the game!

He'll lurk in the shallow water for two years until he's even bigger, now all juiced up with testosterone, while your little water bug has spent two more years staring at the puck. Now the 4 career ending injuries that happened to 12 year olds will be turned into 40 career ending injuries to 14 year olds.

Although I am no fan of the rule I think the alternative for a team that is solid but lacks the Quick Skating and stick handling is to teach those kids to skate and to stickhandle. That is what the ADM is trying to do to hockey. Not all bad is it?[/quote]


Depends what your definition of all bad is. Looks like squirt hockey to me. Unfortunately the time constraints of 50 games and 20-25 practices doesn't lend itself to the fulfillment of quick skating and stickhandling without detriment to the team game that is necessary beyond pee wee. At least there is summer hockey to develop your game.

At least there is summer hockey to develop your game.

Agreed. Where the great big giant kid has been perfecting his open ice hits, and training his 6'2" 185 to move over the residential speed limit. The 90 pounder staring at the puck will have no idea what his own name is, much less the number of the kid that hit him.

frederick61 wrote:Silentbutdeadly asked: “First I agree with everything your saying and I am against the rule change. BUT when you say weaker teams will be unable to compete isn't a good argument ... by definition they are weaker. If your saying the great equilizer is hitting then that reminds me of the parents yelling HITTEM when there team is getting beat by better teams”.

Where I was headed with that comment is that a weaker team at the start of the season with good coaching could learn to use the body to contain a faster skating team. Eden Prairie versus Edina is a prime example. Usually these two teams play each other twice around the Feb 1 and the games are always close low scoring games.

Edina usually has the better skaters at the start of the season, but Eden Prairie has always developed a tough physical style of play during the season that would make those games close. There is no call for “hittem” here because EP’s play, though physical, was still solid hockey for peewee aged kids.

The real question posed is, “what is the alternative for a team that is solid, but lacks the quick skating and stick handling?” Checking exists in hockey for a reason and people tend to forget that when there is a “hittem” on the ice and want to blame the checking. It is an easy thing to do.

I agree, like i said, I don't like the rule because, as Indigo pointed out, the hits will be worse when they get to bantams when these kids are staring at the puck. As you said when done right, tough physical hockey is good. Its unfortunate that the rules in the books weren't applied to control those that used checking as a means to intimidate,injure and target players.