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I'll start this thread with Let's Play Hockey's 10 finalists for Ms. Hockey and Senior Goalie. Congrats, ladies.

http://www.letsplayhockey.com/images/pdf/1061cover.pdf

http://www.letsplayhockey.com/component ... unced.html

Great list. Congratulations ladies, especially with the GPA's. It's always hard to balance sports with school and extracurriculars but for these high achievers it speaks to their focus and understanding of the importance that education will play when hockey is finally over. Best of luck to everyone's teams in the post season.

Five finalists named for Senior Goalie award
http://www.letsplayhockey.com/component ... ounced.pdf

Bandy wrote:Five finalists named for Senior Goalie award
http://www.letsplayhockey.com/component ... ounced.pdf

Interesting stats: all of the Sr. Goalie of the years team out shot their opponents by % shown.
so if you look at the % differential then Andovers Madison Denny kept her team in more games than the others.

School goalie Save pct team shots opponets shots outshot opponents
Roseville Erica Allen 0.956 923 473 49%
Edina Maddie Dahl 0.925 866 535 38%
Andover Madison Denny 0.945 706 596 16%
Breck Taylor Neisen 0.945 902 656 27%
irondale Gillian McDonald 0.933 766 465 39%

Now I know stats do not tell the whole story! just interesting.

These choices have to be tough and you always hope there is some separation between players so it's a little easier to choose. I have to agree with your assessment though on the Andover goalie. I was looking at these numbers the other day and then talked to some people that watched that conference all year. It is very probable that she saw more quality scoring chances than the other goalies in her % save range. You also don't want to minimize goalies for being on stronger teams that spend a lot of time in the offensive zone and have strong D but her numbers do stand out. However it plays out, Congrats to all of the girls for being recognized.

That is the hard part about judging goalies. Don't take any of this as an attack on any goalie, just comparing two candidates that I was lucky enough to watch for the last couple of years (not affiliated with either)

Roseville gave up a total of 11 goals in conference games all season and has 3 Division 1 defensemen.

Park gave up a bunch of goals in conference games and doesn't have a D1 player on the team besides the goalie.

Flip the goalies and the teams and what do the stats look like? No way to tell.

You can't look at any stat to pick the best goalie, you have to have watched them play all year.

hockeyfan21 wrote:That is the hard part about judging goalies. Don't take any of this as an attack on any goalie, just comparing two candidates that I was lucky enough to watch for the last couple of years (not affiliated with either)

Roseville gave up a total of 11 goals in conference games all season and has 3 Division 1 defensemen.

Park gave up a bunch of goals in conference games and doesn't have a D1 player on the team besides the goalie.

Flip the goalies and the teams and what do the stats look like? No way to tell.

You can't look at any stat to pick the best goalie, you have to have watched them play all year.

True, look at Gillian McDonald. Irondale played a bunch of easy games in their conference where they vastly outshot the opponent and she had little action. Yet she played pretty darn well in two close losses to BSM where Irondale was vastly outshot. So it also should come down to how they do against the top competition, but as you said, that can be very dependent on how well the defense clears in front of the net...

Is this the part where everyone jumps in and uses statistics to lobby for their own personal candidate?
OK. I'll play.
This is sort of a career award isn't it?
In the 2010 State Championship game sophomore Erika Allen shut out Edina on 25 shots (Edina outshot Roseville), was chosen the State tournament MVP, and hasn't missed a beat since.
It's her fault she has solid D in front of her?

capitalist wrote:Is this the part where everyone jumps in and uses statistics to lobby for their own personal candidate?
OK. I'll play.
This is sort of a career award isn't it?
In the 2010 State Championship game sophomore Erika Allen shut out Edina on 25 shots (Edina outshot Roseville), was chosen the State tournament MVP, and hasn't missed a beat since.
It's her fault she has solid D in front of her?

My point wasn't to play a favorite. It was to discuss the fact that stats can be deceiving. I'm glad I don't have to choose, because I bet all 5 are very deserving. Congrats to whomever wins.

I still wonder when we will pick a Ms G, Ms F, and Ms D and then allow these three to be considered for "Ms Hockey"

120 teams in the state, 17 players per team (9F, 6D, 2G), assume even distribution @ each class (i.e. 25% 9th, 25% 10th, 25% 11th, 25% 12th)...

120 teams * 9F/team = 1080 * .25 = 270 Senior Forwards
120 teams * 6D/team = 720 * .25 = 180 Senior Defense

=> 450 D & F candidates for "Ms Hockey"

120 teams * 2G/team = 240 * .25 = 60 Senior Goalies

=> 60 candidates for "Ms Goalie"

I know, I know not every team is equal distribution of players per grade, some have 7th/8th graders, many don't carry/use three full lines/sets of D, some have only 1 goalie, some have 3, etc., etc. It's an average & rough estimate...

Bottom line is that 2.2% of Sr D&F (10 of 450) are finalists for Ms Hockey, 16.7% of Sr G (10 of 60) are finalists for Ms G.

What bothers me most is that 0% of Sr G are candidates for "Ms Hockey" and D are typically severely underrepresented in the Ms Hockey group.

I generally abhor the watering down of awards so that every player ends up winning a trophy or ribbon, but do agree with many of the stats and the fact that D' are vastly underrepresented. I won't quite say "discriminated against", but who's going to win Ms. Hockey, a F with 50 goals, or a D with 10 goals and a +60 and all the other intangibles? I would have to admit in this case I'd like to see a G, F, D, and Ms. H award (but then no more watering down).

sinbin wrote:I generally abhor the watering down of awards so that every player ends up winning a trophy or ribbon, but do agree with many of the stats and the fact that D' are vastly underrepresented. I won't quite say "discriminated against", but who's going to win Ms. Hockey, a F with 50 goals, or a D with 10 goals and a +60 and all the other intangibles? I would have to admit in this case I'd like to see a G, F, D, and Ms. H award (but then no more watering down).

Couldn't agree more on the watering down. First coaching job I had I asked that they rewrite the all-conf numbers as they were selecting nearly a third of the players for some AC or ACHM award (crazy IMHO).

The MS D, F, G, Hockey thing is just one that I have been an advocate of for some time. I doubt it will ever happen - but will keep bringing it up...

Congratulations to each of the five finalists:

2012 Ms. Hockey finalists announced

http://www.letsplayhockey.com/component ... unced.html

Nice to see some d on the list

Nice to see some d on the list

ghshockeyfan wrote:Nice to see some d on the list

Nice to see LPH has kept their mantle as crappiest web site on the net.

Congrats to all of the players recognized and their teammates. These players likely get the majority of recognition but their teammates all play a critical role in enabling these players to shine.

i think you have to make the big dance to win Ms hockey that seems to be the way it always goes

Hannah Brandt is the Star Tribune's All Metro Player of the Year:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/preps/139764353.html

Star Tribune's All Metro First Team:

KATIE MCLAIN - Anoka, goalie, senior
MILICA MCMILLEN - Breck, defense, senior
HANNAH BRANDT - Hill-Murray, forward, senior
LEE STECKLEIN - Roseville, defense, senior
JONNA CURTIS - Elk River/Zimmerman, forward, senior
KATE FLUG - Roseville, forward, junior

http://www.startribune.com/sports/139772323.html

Congratulations to all of these great players!

And congratulations to all of the players named to the second and third teams, listed here:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/139773163.html

Could Ms. Hockey be next?

Hannah Brandt of Hill-Murray is the Pioneer Press girls hockey player of the year

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_20011633

All-Pioneer Press girls hockey team

First Team:
HANNAH BRANDT
HANNA BRODT
MADDIE DAHL
MOLLY ILLIKAINEN
SAM LASHOMB
MILICA MCMILLEN
JONNA CURTIS
SAMANTHA DONOVAN
KATIE MCLAIN
LISA MARVIN
KELLY PANNEK
LEE STECKLIEN

Honorable Mention found here: http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_20011638

Hill-Murray's Hannah Brandt is AP Player of Year

http://www.crookstontimes.com/sports/x1 ... er-of-Year

Helmbrecht named Herb Brooks Award winner

http://www.grandrapidsmn.com/article_b9 ... 963f4.html