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Recruiting
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:43 pm
by Bullgod
I thought this would be a fun topic now that the season is almost over. Please don't read anything derogatory or accusatory into it, Iwould just like to have a little light hearted banter.
On two seperate occasions this year, I was told Palmquist recruited his two goalies. One was from a grandfather of a girl who has graduated, not sure where from. The other was from an uncle of a classic suburban player and a former packer himself. just thought it funny that two people with no vested interest mention this in two unrelated conversations.
Second, I found an old Minnesota selects program from '06. And was kind of surprised at the number of girls who played varsity hockey at Warroad, but listed different communities as youth players. With out going back and looking it up, I think there were kids from Grand Rapids, Little Falls, East Grand forks, I think there was another town but I can't remember which.
It seems to be more than a coincidence.
Remember, no need to get heated, I would just like to here what others have to say.
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:03 pm
by ghshockeyfan
SSP & Warroad attract a lot of players for various reasons. I'd say the schools/teams/communities "recruit" the players. They come for many, many reasons including the hockey.
I'd like to spin this topic a different direction and discuss the open enrollment rules enacted a number of years back.
Have these worked? We have only one private school team in the two tourneys this year and that's at Class A in Breck. Not sure that means anything - but I found it interesting.
I also haven't heard as much about open enrollment moves as of late - although I've been out of the game as far as coaching for a few years now.
Do we have any team that is entirely "homegrown" - meaning that their players grew-up within their HS attendance area?
Re: Recruiting
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:04 pm
by mn miracle man
Bullgod wrote:I thought this would be a fun topic now that the season is almost over. Please don't read anything derogatory or accusatory into it, Iwould just like to have a little light hearted banter.
On two seperate occasions this year, I was told Palmquist recruited his two goalies. One was from a grandfather of a girl who has graduated, not sure where from. The other was from an uncle of a classic suburban player and a former packer himself. just thought it funny that two people with no vested interest mention this in two unrelated conversations.
Second, I found an old Minnesota selects program from '06. And was kind of surprised at the number of girls who played varsity hockey at Warroad, but listed different communities as youth players. With out going back and looking it up, I think there were kids from Grand Rapids, Little Falls, East Grand forks, I think there was another town but I can't remember which.
It seems to be more than a coincidence.
Remember, no need to get heated, I would just like to here what others have to say.
Maybe you should elaborate on the names from the program and maybe there can be some clarification on how it all came to be?
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:30 pm
by Bullgod
I wasn't going to name names, but I see your point.
Grand Rapids- Amsely-Benzie
Little Falls- Sylvester, hanowski
I can't remember the girls name from E. Grand forks.
I am not sure where the program ended up. Thats 4 kids from 1 tourney
Warroad
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:13 am
by FlyingWarrior
Hanowski's purchased a house in Warroad because they new that we did not have a coaching staff in Brainerd that would develop players. As it turned out, they probably made the right move as we ended up 4-22 with the worst GAA in AA hockey.
The E.Grand girl is Egeland.
The goalie relocated from Sartell, as she was the back-up to a very good Erin Deters and probably was not going to play much.
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:44 am
by Tigers33
When the going gets tough, just up and move to a better situation. I wish that worked in the working world.
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:08 am
by INDUS
It's time the mshsl looks at their open enrollment, there are some students that move for what the rules were suppose to do ---better education. when you have 2-4 students from canada and other students from other cities going to alittle place like warroad, and they are pretty good at a sport, if I was a betting person, I think there is big time recruiting going on.(illegally) It looks like Marvins have to do a better job of recruiting for their hockey teams, I hear there is a family from FLIN FON MANITOBA that has some pretty good hockey players. It's time the MSHSL starts stepping on some toes.
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:14 am
by hometown warrior
No doubt on the Warroad recruiting. My daughters and family went through the heartaches for years. Your not as good as the players moving to town, so don't expect to play much. Great sales pitch about coming to a better place. You totally destroy the program you leave and help the Warrior coach and his family. Wont change, never has. Recruit some marginal players and do everyone a favor. One more year and it should be over.
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:38 am
by allhoc11
I know everyone likes to beat up the privates and Warroad in this conversation, but I think teams that aren't completely "homegrown" has become the norm. I think the economy has had an influence on this whether it's changing jobs, changing home life, or kids changing schools for personal or athletic reasons, it happens a lot. Hypothetically of course, say a community is able to offer families a job and significant help towards college costs in a tough economy then why wouldn't a family take advantage of that. I'm not saying it's right, and I feel it creates an unfair advantage for a community, but I'm not sure what the HSL could do about this, if it was happening of course. (':shock:')
If you take a close look at the rosters of the AA schools in the championship game you will find some players on each roster who aren't technically "homegrown". You also have to define homegrown, does it mean being born in the hospital in town and playing there my entire career? What age can my family move and I still be considered homegrown? Most of us wouldn't know or care if it was between age 1-12, but if I have to leave all my friends at one of the most difficult times of my life not only am I sad and angry about it, but some clowns who have way to much time on their hands are going to run my name through the mud an anonymous board. All because my family moved during or just prior to my HS career.
I have rambled long enough, but the bottom line is I don't think there is anything the HSL is going to do about it, and they hide behind there transfer rule, and say "we are doing something, look at the rules" when in reality I don't see anything that will change the fact that we will always have loopholes in the system, as long as people are motivated enough to find them.
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:52 am
by Gov78
Tigers33 wrote:When the going gets tough, just up and move to a better situation. I wish that worked in the working world.
Why doesn't it work that way?
Recruiting
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:51 am
by conebacton
Gov78 wrote:Tigers33 wrote:When the going gets tough, just up and move to a better situation. I wish that worked in the working world.
It worked for Slattery (Jahnke enrolled in 9th grade--no need to move). Roseville better get busy over the summer.
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:02 am
by Pens4
Im not a big fan of the current polcy....not sure if it is a result of the mercinary-like hockey our kids play in the summer or it has trickled down to our youth programs. Either way, we have lost some of the charm of the youth players growing up together and finishing their HS careers with those friends.
My son just finished his HS career and to sit at a senior dinner with 8 players and 16 parents reminiscing about the years from mites to now is priceless. It was mentioned earlier...path of least resistance. There is huge value for these kids to go through the years with trying to create something together and go through everyting from champioships to early exits....its all good when it happens with your closest friends.
recruit
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:28 am
by INDUS
AMEN PENS4 WELL SAID PRICELESS YEARS, MEMORIES FOREVER
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:38 am
by brookyone
Well, it does work that way in the working world too, once in awhile.
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:20 pm
by wishiwasfishingguy
hometown warrior...i don't agree it will all be over in a year. there is a peewee going through the system too.
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:24 pm
by inthestands
As long as the system allows it to happen, it will.
As soon as the process loop holes are closed, it won't.
A bit of a simplistic view, but it's reality.
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:43 pm
by OntheEdge
inthestands wrote:As long as the system allows it to happen, it will.
As soon as the process loop holes are closed, it won't.
A bit of a simplistic view, but it's reality.
There will always be loopholes. The truly motivated will find a way to exploit them. We can all name a number of examples of this.
I'm not a fan of the transfer rules because I think it tends to hurt the ones that transfer for legitimate reasons (i.e. other than hockey or sports in general). I was told this rule was implemented largely due to Hopkins basketball and girls hockey abuses (I think EP was the girls program that angered everyone the most). I don't think the rule has slowed down abuses in either so why have the rule?
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:34 pm
by mn miracle man
Bullgod wrote:I wasn't going to name names, but I see your point.
Grand Rapids- Amsely-Benzie
Little Falls- Sylvester, hanowski
I can't remember the girls name from E. Grand forks.
I am not sure where the program ended up. Thats 4 kids from 1 tourney
That is interesting, I knew thats where Hanowski came from, but I didn't realize Benzie played in Grand Rapids. The question I have is this, if it is so obvious that Warroad is "recruiting" why hasn't anyone been able to catch them on this and turn them in to the MSHSL. If they truly have been bending the rules for so long they would eventually get caught. So either everything is actually by the book as far as families moving and such, or everyone would rather whine on a message board after getting beat rather than stepping up and trying to call them out on it.
I did hear back in the fall that Warroad did have a complaint on them sent to the MSHSL about the Hanowski girl, but after checking into it the MSHSL deemed it to be legit.
I also remember a case in St. Cloud this year or last year where a boy transferred to Cathedral after playing at Tech for a couple of years because he claimed he was being "bullied." Talk about abusing the system...
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:26 pm
by warriors41
mn miracle man wrote:Bullgod wrote:I wasn't going to name names, but I see your point.
Grand Rapids- Amsely-Benzie
Little Falls- Sylvester, hanowski
I can't remember the girls name from E. Grand forks.
I am not sure where the program ended up. Thats 4 kids from 1 tourney
That is interesting, I knew thats where Hanowski came from, but I didn't realize Benzie played in Grand Rapids. The question I have is this, if it is so obvious that Warroad is "recruiting" why hasn't anyone been able to catch them on this and turn them in to the MSHSL. If they truly have been bending the rules for so long they would eventually get caught. So either everything is actually by the book as far as families moving and such, or everyone would rather whine on a message board after getting beat rather than stepping up and trying to call them out on it.
I did hear back in the fall that Warroad did have a complaint on them sent to the MSHSL about the Hanowski girl, but after checking into it the MSHSL deemed it to be legit.
I also remember a case in St. Cloud this year or last year where a boy transferred to Cathedral after playing at Tech for a couple of years because he claimed he was being "bullied." Talk about abusing the system...
I would think that if Warroad was going to "recruit" Hanowski they would have started ten years ago so that Ben and Beau would have played there as well. If they are related anyway. Guess I don't know for sure.
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:13 pm
by Hansonbrother
inthestands wrote:As long as the system allows it to happen, it will.
As soon as the process loop holes are closed, it won't.
A bit of a simplistic view, but it's reality.
May I project a solution? why not make all Class "A" teams only be allowed to play Class "A" teams. If you don't like it, opt up to "AA." I don't believe the argument of logistics make it impossible. It seems Warroad never has an issue finding 25 games, up or down. Perhaps maybe when the big 3 get tired of winning games by 10+ goals night in and night out, they will opt to play up where they are still capable of winning.
If they were to opt up, the Class "A" tournament wouldn't have 10-0 quarter final games and the tournament would be where it should be...competitive amongst the true Class "A" teams. But as long as the HSL continues to let them have the best of both worlds, (Mixed schedules, and an easy route to the X) than get used to seeing Warroad, Breck, and So. St. Paul playing for the title game in Class "A" year in and year out.
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:45 pm
by hockeywild7
The problem with your suggestion of A teams only scheduling other A teams is some conferences have a mix of A and AA teams. Hill-Murray, Tartan, and North St. Paul, Sibley are all AA and Mahtomedi, Simley, South St. Paul are class A in their conference.
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:06 pm
by allhoc11
Hansonbrother wrote:inthestands wrote:As long as the system allows it to happen, it will.
As soon as the process loop holes are closed, it won't.
A bit of a simplistic view, but it's reality.
May I project a solution? why not make all Class "A" teams only be allowed to play Class "A" teams. If you don't like it, opt up to "AA." I don't believe the argument of logistics make it impossible. It seems Warroad never has an issue finding 25 games, up or down. Perhaps maybe when the big 3 get tired of winning games by 10+ goals night in and night out, they will opt to play up where they are still capable of winning.
If they were to opt up, the Class "A" tournament wouldn't have 10-0 quarter final games and the tournament would be where it should be...competitive amongst the true Class "A" teams. But as long as the HSL continues to let them have the best of both worlds, (Mixed schedules, and an easy route to the X) than get used to seeing Warroad, Breck, and So. St. Paul playing for the title game in Class "A" year in and year out.
I like your idea, and simple solution to hw7 issue. The only exception would be for conference games. I think there are very few conferences that have a mix.
The only problem I see would be for out-state AA teams, Look at Grand Rapids, CEC, Roseau how many AA teams within a 2 hour radius are there. Unfortunately we would be penalizing these teams and make their travel budgets unreasonable not to mention how that travel time would affect the players school performance.
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:50 pm
by sinbin
Academics interfering with hockey again . . .
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:46 pm
by BeenAround
OntheEdge wrote:inthestands wrote:As long as the system allows it to happen, it will.
As soon as the process loop holes are closed, it won't.
A bit of a simplistic view, but it's reality.
There will always be loopholes. The truly motivated will find a way to exploit them. We can all name a number of examples of this.
I'm not a fan of the transfer rules because I think it tends to hurt the ones that transfer for legitimate reasons (i.e. other than hockey or sports in general). I was told this rule was implemented largely due to Hopkins basketball and girls hockey abuses (I think EP was the girls program that angered everyone the most). I don't think the rule has slowed down abuses in either so why have the rule?
Yes,EP
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:25 pm
by MinnGirlsHockey
mn miracle man wrote:I also remember a case in St. Cloud this year or last year where a boy transferred to Cathedral after playing at Tech for a couple of years because he claimed he was being "bullied." Talk about abusing the system...
Was he allowed to play Varsity? Do you know the facts of the case? Just askin'...in today's world, I'm sure even hockey players can get bullied.