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Your knee jerk reaction has ruined the game. Get down to the basics of teaching kids how to hit and take a hit. Get the Hockey Moms the hell out of the rink. YOU ARE RUINING THE GAME. The Canadians are laughing at you clowns.

The great Don Cherry:
and checking (I will add)
“Everyone knows everybody loves fights. They better start listening to the people who are at the game and pay the money than the twits upstairs who get in for free.”

This applies to the 90%!!!!

“people think common sense is common - but it's not.”

So are you saying MSHSL should allow fighting in high school games? Your post is not real clear (understatement) but that is as close as I can translate it.

northwoods oldtimer wrote:Get down to the basics of teaching kids how to hit and take a hit. Get the Hockey Moms the hell out of the rink. YOU ARE RUINING THE GAME. The Canadians are laughing at you clowns.

I agree.

Too bad a good check in being penalized! Going to ruin game in MN.

Yes will all feel bad for Jabs. So from now on when ever it snows no one should be allowed to drive, as people die driving when it snows?

What is worst is kids are now taking a dive, lay on the ice for 5 min to draw a penalty. Then back out next shift, where is honestly and intergrity!

Great changes they have made. The games I've been to have been just as physical and exciting as ever. I'll also wager that the number of kids making it to D1 and the NHL won't decline either. Some of you people need to crawl out of the Jurassic and reallize that the game needs to change. For 99.9% the NHL or even D1 isn't in the cards. They will be done after high school. Better that they are in one piece as they go about the rest of their lives. Don Cherry is not the voice of hockey. He's funny, but a neanderthal. He thinks the Detroit Red Wings are a bunch of whoosies. Yeah right. Arguably the best franchise in the NHL the last 15 years. Any NHL city in North America envies what they've accomplished. Your choice is to quit whining and get used to the new game or go watch MMA if violence is what you like. I've got one thing to say to the blow up intimidation hits with the only intent to injure - "Good riddance!"

northwoods oldtimer wrote:Your knee jerk reaction has ruined the game. Get down to the basics of teaching kids how to hit and take a hit. Get the Hockey Moms the hell out of the rink. YOU ARE RUINING THE GAME. The Canadians are laughing at you clowns.

The great Don Cherry:
and checking (I will add)
“Everyone knows everybody loves fights. They better start listening to the people who are at the game and pay the money than the twits upstairs who get in for free.”

This applies to the 90%!!!!

“people think common sense is common - but it's not.”

Northwoods-always stirring the pot baby!

Agreed though. Its not just the MSHSL, its youth hockey too. Have any of you people been to a Pee Wee game? It's ridicoulous. The refs are overly criticized and calling stuff that shouldn't be called. Its a mess. I feel strongly this new rule will do nothing but cause more injuries as kids will not learn the fundamentals of how to give and take a hit, proper angling, etc.

Sats81 wrote:I feel strongly this new rule will do nothing but cause more injuries as kids will not learn the fundamentals of how to give and take a hit, proper angling, etc.

What new rule? Checking from behind and boarding aren't new rules! They've simply gone from 2 minutes to 5 - exactly like the NCAA did years ago. Yep that college hockey is a train wreck the past 5 years isn't it? So brutal. In my mind, the MSHSL and USA Hockey had been way behind in this - now they are caught up.

It's not the refs job to teach kids. Its the coaches. If the kids are taught by coaches at an early level how to check with your shoulder and hips, and not from behind, the refs job is easy. It's simple and is not affecting the game.

There is never a place for checks from behind or contact to the head. Period. There is always a place for a good clean blast (which I have still seen plenty of this year). Again, see the Lettieri hit last Wednesday and see the hit on Schuldt during the Wayzata/Tonka game. Both non-calls because they were clean shoulder checks from the front. And both kids had to be helped off the ice. Nothing wrong with that.

I posted this in another thread, but it fits this topic:
My thoughts on the game -

Tough for Mahtomedi to give up that goal the very next shift early in the 1st. Zephs 1st line and D just did not show up. Way too many turnovers by the Zephs D in very inapportune areas of the ice. Totino had some guys that could fly, #10 in particular. I have been 15 years removed from the HS game, but can you no longer check or get in a forwards way when he's barreling down the ice?????? There was one good check by #4 for Mahtomedi (on #10 of TG even), and it was called for roughing! Can you not get physical or clear people out of the front of the net anymore either?? It was frustrating to watch, but I guess it makes for a faster, more offensive game. There is no longer traditional breakouts either, it is just one easy transition from one zone to the other, with lots of odd man rushes. I guess I am getting old....

Boarding and checking from behind in the past could have been called 5 minutes but most times called for 2 and 10. Sometimes the refs would call a 2 minute rough on checking from behind. What has happen is the discretion has been taken away from the refs. Who is to blame, both parties - the rule makers for not training refs to call per the book and the refs for not have the confidence to stand behind their call, third woudl be the fans/coaches for treating refs with disrespect causing refs to be afraid to make correct call.

gitter wrote:

Sats81 wrote:I feel strongly this new rule will do nothing but cause more injuries as kids will not learn the fundamentals of how to give and take a hit, proper angling, etc.

What new rule? Checking from behind and boarding aren't new rules! They've simply gone from 2 minutes to 5 - exactly like the NCAA did years ago. Yep that college hockey is a train wreck the past 5 years isn't it? So brutal. In my mind, the MSHSL and USA Hockey had been way behind in this - now they are caught up.

It's not the refs job to teach kids. Its the coaches. If the kids are taught by coaches at an early level how to check with your shoulder and hips, and not from behind, the refs job is easy. It's simple and is not affecting the game.

There is never a place for checks from behind or contact to the head. Period. There is always a place for a good clean blast (which I have still seen plenty of this year). Again, see the Lettieri hit last Wednesday and see the hit on Schuldt during the Wayzata/Tonka game. Both non-calls because they were clean shoulder checks from the front. And both kids had to be helped off the ice. Nothing wrong with that.

Very well said. What this comes down to, as deacon points out, is everyone playing the blame game. Don't commit an infraction, don't go to the box. Pretty straight forward.

The issue isn't so much with the penalties, it's with how they are being called now.

In the 1a and 1aa semi finals and finals there were by my count 5 major penalties called, 4 of them resulted in multiple goal power plays and 3 turned competitive games into blow outs. One boarding call happend on a check where the boards weren't even hit, literally an open ice boarding penalty.

That's a problem, we have officials discretion determining games. I'm all for calling the rules as written but far to often the penalty doesn't fit the crime and far too often it determines the outcome of games. It's far too inconsistant.

A few years ago the MSHSL had a rule where you had to serve your entire penalty time, if the other team scored your team replaced you and we played 5 on 5. I think that is a far better solution than this fiasco taking place now.

northwoods oldtimer wrote:Your knee jerk reaction has ruined the game. Get down to the basics of teaching kids how to hit and take a hit. Get the Hockey Moms the hell out of the rink. YOU ARE RUINING THE GAME. The Canadians are laughing at you clowns.

The great Don Cherry:
and checking (I will add)
“Everyone knows everybody loves fights. They better start listening to the people who are at the game and pay the money than the twits upstairs who get in for free.”

This applies to the 90%!!!!

“people think common sense is common - but it's not.”

Very true, very true.
In my hockey career, 10 or 15 years ago, I was called for boarding, and checking from behind....they weren't "new" back then. We did not have contact to the head penalties though.

gitter wrote:

Sats81 wrote:I feel strongly this new rule will do nothing but cause more injuries as kids will not learn the fundamentals of how to give and take a hit, proper angling, etc.

What new rule? Checking from behind and boarding aren't new rules! They've simply gone from 2 minutes to 5 - exactly like the NCAA did years ago. Yep that college hockey is a train wreck the past 5 years isn't it? So brutal. In my mind, the MSHSL and USA Hockey had been way behind in this - now they are caught up.

It's not the refs job to teach kids. Its the coaches. If the kids are taught by coaches at an early level how to check with your shoulder and hips, and not from behind, the refs job is easy. It's simple and is not affecting the game.

There is never a place for checks from behind or contact to the head. Period. There is always a place for a good clean blast (which I have still seen plenty of this year). Again, see the Lettieri hit last Wednesday and see the hit on Schuldt during the Wayzata/Tonka game. Both non-calls because they were clean shoulder checks from the front. And both kids had to be helped off the ice. Nothing wrong with that.

You know what I meant. The interpretation of the old rule. That better for you? The refs are certainly not letting the kids play like they did previously.

EREmpireStrikesBack wrote:The issue isn't so much with the penalties, it's with how they are being called now.

My thoughts exactly.

goldy313 wrote:In the 1a and 1aa semi finals and finals there were by my count 5 major penalties called, 4 of them resulted in multiple goal power plays and 3 turned competitive games into blow outs. One boarding call happend on a check where the boards weren't even hit, literally an open ice boarding penalty.

That's a problem, we have officials discretion determining games. I'm all for calling the rules as written but far to often the penalty doesn't fit the crime and far too often it determines the outcome of games. It's far too inconsistant.

A few years ago the MSHSL had a rule where you had to serve your entire penalty time, if the other team scored your team replaced you and we played 5 on 5. I think that is a far better solution than this fiasco taking place now.

Very good points. The refs are now determining the outcomes of games more than ever before. They need to let the kids play. It gives skilled teams a much better advantage with the 5 min powerplays and all the special teams time.

goldy313 wrote:That's a problem, we have officials discretion determining games.

How does officials calling penalties equate to them determining games? Isn't it the students who committed the infraction, and were called for the penalty, who are determining the game?

Sats81 wrote:Very good points. The refs are now determining the outcomes of games more than ever before. They need to let the kids play. It gives skilled teams a much better advantage with the 5 min powerplays and all the special teams time.

The kids are playing. And being penalized for illegal (against the rules) actions they make.

Oh, you mean those with more skill have an advantage? Interesting concept

So a more "skilled" team will have an advantage???? Huh, never thought of that.

HShockeywatcher wrote:

goldy313 wrote:That's a problem, we have officials discretion determining games.

How does officials calling penalties equate to them determining games? Isn't it the students who committed the infraction, and were called for the penalty, who are determining the game?

Sats81 wrote:Very good points. The refs are now determining the outcomes of games more than ever before. They need to let the kids play. It gives skilled teams a much better advantage with the 5 min powerplays and all the special teams time.

The kids are playing. And being penalized for illegal (against the rules) actions they make.


Oh, you mean those with more skill have an advantage? Interesting concept

Holding is a penatly so is a hit from behind, etc.

People like to use words to exagerrate their view point (like Illegal).

Penalties are penalties and correctly cking someone on the ice (regardless of how hard) is a skill that we should be teaching early and often not eliminating and calling crazy calls to make people feel better over a bad accident.

The game has changed and I believe much for the worse, others think for the better and many wish no cking ever existed any more (then maybe junior could have or will be a star).

Hard to lead the squadron if you are not a pilot!

Dang it! Kids are actually going to have to learn skills!

EREmpireStrikesBack wrote:The issue isn't so much with the penalties, it's with how they are being called now.

Well said. A shoulder to shoulder check should not be a rough, interference or something else. Don't take me wrong, all for player safety.

EREmpireStrikesBack wrote:The issue isn't so much with the penalties, it's with how they are being called now.

Can you elaborate on this? How are "they being called now?"

This is hilarious. It's not a difficult concept. I have yet to see a player get called for a shoulder hit to the other players chest.

For everyone saying its wrecking the game, it is the exact same penalty in the WCHA. Someone please explain how it has wrecked the college hockey game as well.

You have good refs and bad refs. This is a fact that will never change at any level. The St. Louis Blues filed a formal protest to the League to request an official (not to be named) not be assigned to any remaining Blues games. You won't find it in a press article, but just goes to show you it is at every level.

HShockeywatcher wrote:

EREmpireStrikesBack wrote:The issue isn't so much with the penalties, it's with how they are being called now.

Can you elaborate on this? How are "they being called now?"

Just seems that clean, but hard checks are being penalized more often now. If the "chekee" puts himself into a bad position due to his head being down or just not taking the check, it seems that the checker gets penalized with the big emphasis on the new rules. I will agree that some calls are definitely needed and they are the correct call, but it also seems that clean hits that are hard are getting penalized when they shouldn't be.

EREmpireStrikesBack wrote:

HShockeywatcher wrote:

EREmpireStrikesBack wrote:The issue isn't so much with the penalties, it's with how they are being called now.

Can you elaborate on this? How are "they being called now?"

Just seems that clean, but hard checks are being penalized more often now. If the "chekee" puts himself into a bad position due to his head being down or just not taking the check, it seems that the checker gets penalized with the big emphasis on the new rules. I will agree that some calls are definitely needed and they are the correct call, but it also seems that clean hits that are hard are getting penalized when they shouldn't be.

There has been obvious non calls, or a call that obviously should've been the automatic 5 being called something less as well. In other words, refs who are scared to change the game. Which is almost scarier than calling the rules as they have been mandated.

I would think that eventually it will revert back to being called the way it should've been in the first place, the refs will just substitute the boarding call with an elbow or rough..... not sure if they hide from a check from behind anymore though..... as they shouldn't.