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How many of think that they would encourage their son to leave HS early to play Jr. Hockey? What will be the trend in the coming years?

Anyone whose kid is good and has a chance, if they are smart will do just.

No question they will be getting out of high school hockey ASAP ! (if they can make of course). 25 games, 3.5 month season, weak competition (overall) not worth it. Sure you can still make it out of high school hockey, but it's really not that good of a product anymore.

Yes, if he is good enough. Coming out of 3A is like playing C hockey. A good bantam A team could probably take that section. From my point of view the whole state is ripe for more Juniors opportunities. Lots of good players are stranded on sucky teams. Lets copy Canada. More games and a longer season is a good idea to me.

I believe it is nearly impossible to say what you and your family would decide to do until the situation actually presents itself. I see WAY too many examples of BOTH SIDES and both good and bad examples of BOTH to say for sure what would be right. I mean let's face it, WI HS Hockey is not even close to being on par with MN HS hockey yet Brad Navin stayed at his high school in WI (and his team sucked even by WI HS standards)all the way through his senior year and made the jump directly from high school to significant playing time with the Badgers this year with no juniors at all. TIm Davison of Green Bay Notre Dame is widely regarded as te best high school player in the state of WI right now, he has excepted a scholarship to play for the Badgers. He had the opportunity to join a USHL team as a junior and decided not to, he had a chance to join the USNDTP and decided not too, he had a chance to join a USHL team again this year as a senior but decided winning a state championship with his younger borther in HS was more important to him and he and his team did just that this year. He will now join a USHL team next year for one season and join the Badgers the year after that, hard to argue that it didn't work out for him. On the flip side there are a ton of examples of kids leaving early, the latest in our area is Keegan Ford of Waunakee, WI High School, he is a sophmore that was jsut tendered by Dubuque Fighting Saints of the USHL and he will join them next year as a junior yet his older brother Jason just graduated and played HS all four years and he will join a junior team next season as well. I think it depends on ALOT of factors and to jump to the conclusion you absolutely would or would not without know ALL of the factors and not being in that situation is just fodder because you don't know what you would do OR what your son would WANT to do until it actually becomes an option.

Depends on what his intentions and wishes are, duh!

Plenty of kids set their sights on making the HS varsity team, and if possible making it to state. And that's enough for them -- and they can play hockey the rest of their lives in any case.

If the kid has skills and passion to play at a higher level, we cross that bridge when we get to it.

Agree with JSR on this one. Any parent who confesses to this juniors-before-graduation strategy is living out their fantasy through their kids. In Minnesota, the question is probably relevant only to the Justin Klooses and Hudson Faschings of the world, exceptional players on mediocre teams with marginal chances of post-season success and exposure. One chooses to stay at home and carry his team to State, the other takes the bait for the NTDP. Both will play at a higher level than high school hockey, but for one of those guys there are 10 other skilled players who will be lucky to play D3 even if they play juniors after high school.

I guess my big question is: Why the rush? It's not like taking one extra year to finish high school is going to prevent that kid from getting his shot at the NHL, if he's a real contender. So many hockey dads are paranoid that some other kid is getting ahead somewhere.

Shinbone_News wrote:
Any parent who confesses to this juniors-before-graduation strategy is living out their fantasy through their kids.

Couldn't disagree more. Typical canned answer to a very complicated question.

Just like there's no one right skate or stick there's no one right answer to this question.

auld_skool wrote:

Shinbone_News wrote:
Any parent who confesses to this juniors-before-graduation strategy is living out their fantasy through their kids.

Couldn't disagree more. Typical canned answer to a very complicated question.

Just like there's no one right skate or stick there's no one right answer to this question.

I think you took that statement out of context. When you read everything he wrote in the context he wrote it I think he is agreeign with you. I think what he meant was anyone professing to know exactly what they'd do right now without even having a kid in that situation is living out a fantasy. I think he means there are alot of different answers and rights and wrongs out there but good parents cross that bridge whe they get to it and make an informed decision at that point, they don't adamantly say they definitely would do this or this without their kid even being there yet..... atleast I think that is what he meant and is how I read it.

Shinbone_News wrote:Depends on what his intentions and wishes are, duh!

Plenty of kids set their sights on making the HS varsity team, and if possible making it to state. And that's enough for them -- and they can play hockey the rest of their lives in any case.

If the kid has skills and passion to play at a higher level, we cross that bridge when we get to it.

Agree with JSR on this one. Any parent who confesses to this juniors-before-graduation strategy is living out their fantasy through their kids. In Minnesota, the question is probably relevant only to the Justin Klooses and Hudson Faschings of the world, exceptional players on mediocre teams with marginal chances of post-season success and exposure. One chooses to stay at home and carry his team to State, the other takes the bait for the NTDP. Both will play at a higher level than high school hockey, but for one of those guys there are 10 other skilled players who will be lucky to play D3 even if they play juniors after high school.

I guess my big question is: Why the rush? It's not like taking one extra year to finish high school is going to prevent that kid from getting his shot at the NHL, if he's a real contender. So many hockey dads are paranoid that some other kid is getting ahead somewhere.

Or a parent is looking at possible opportunities based on their kids interest and dedication toward the sport of hockey. My kid won't go anywhere unless my kid wants to go. Just as my kid will only get as good as he wants to get and only my kid can put in the time and dedication needed to reach is dreams. The only thing I can do is to help facilitate and support opportunities for him to reach his full potential, based on HIS interest and dedication. What part of that is me living a fantasy through my kid?

I've had my shot; even won the big MN show. What I do know is the big show is a pipe dream for the majority of hockey players in MN today. Yet this pipe dream drives most of those players to share some kind of association/school loyalty that has them forgo better playing and development opportunities and stay with teams that will never make it due to their lack of depth and skill. You don't win the MN state tourney with one line of good forwards. You win it with top to bottom talent and a hot goaltender.

Better, higher skilled competition is what drives the majority of competitive players to get better. The odds are much better for the majority of players to reach their full potential if they find the highest competitive environment that will challenge their skills. This is irrefutable. The odd one man show superstar coming from nowhere is an anomaly and a poor example to give potentially great players reason to stay with their sucky high school team.

Oh Wait... But what about the story of Jan Jankle... Olympic Luge Gold Medalist... Who mastered his skill on the 12 Foot Hill in his backyard... with his 3 year younger sister... on a plastic sled

JSR wrote:

auld_skool wrote:

Shinbone_News wrote:
Any parent who confesses to this juniors-before-graduation strategy is living out their fantasy through their kids.

Couldn't disagree more. Typical canned answer to a very complicated question.

Just like there's no one right skate or stick there's no one right answer to this question.

I think you took that statement out of context. When you read everything he wrote in the context he wrote it I think he is agreeign with you. I think what he meant was anyone professing to know exactly what they'd do right now without even having a kid in that situation is living out a fantasy. I think he means there are alot of different answers and rights and wrongs out there but good parents cross that bridge whe they get to it and make an informed decision at that point, they don't adamantly say they definitely would do this or this without their kid even being there yet..... atleast I think that is what he meant and is how I read it.

No, I read what he wrote and I disagree with him. He's not saying anything I agree with.

Outoftowner wrote:
Or a parent is looking at possible opportunities based on their kids interest and dedication toward the sport of hockey. My kid won't go anywhere unless my kid wants to go. Just as my kid will only get as good as he wants to get and only my kid can put in the time and dedication needed to reach is dreams. The only thing I can do is to help facilitate and support opportunities for him to reach his full potential, based on HIS interest and dedication. What part of that is me living a fantasy through my kid?

I've had my shot; even won the big MN show. What I do know is the big show is a pipe dream for the majority of hockey players in MN today. Yet this pipe dream drives most of those players to share some kind of association/school loyalty that has them forgo better playing and development opportunities and stay with teams that will never make it due to their lack of depth and skill. You don't win the MN state tourney with one line of good forwards. You win it with top to bottom talent and a hot goaltender.

Better, higher skilled competition is what drives the majority of competitive players to get better. The odds are much better for the majority of players to reach their full potential if they find the highest competitive environment that will challenge their skills. This is irrefutable. The odd one man show superstar coming from nowhere is an anomaly and a poor example to give potentially great players reason to stay with their sucky high school team.

This I agree with.

auld_skool wrote:

Outoftowner wrote:
Or a parent is looking at possible opportunities based on their kids interest and dedication toward the sport of hockey. My kid won't go anywhere unless my kid wants to go. Just as my kid will only get as good as he wants to get and only my kid can put in the time and dedication needed to reach is dreams. The only thing I can do is to help facilitate and support opportunities for him to reach his full potential, based on HIS interest and dedication. What part of that is me living a fantasy through my kid?

I've had my shot; even won the big MN show. What I do know is the big show is a pipe dream for the majority of hockey players in MN today. Yet this pipe dream drives most of those players to share some kind of association/school loyalty that has them forgo better playing and development opportunities and stay with teams that will never make it due to their lack of depth and skill. You don't win the MN state tourney with one line of good forwards. You win it with top to bottom talent and a hot goaltender.

Better, higher skilled competition is what drives the majority of competitive players to get better. The odds are much better for the majority of players to reach their full potential if they find the highest competitive environment that will challenge their skills. This is irrefutable. The odd one man show superstar coming from nowhere is an anomaly and a poor example to give potentially great players reason to stay with their sucky high school team.

This I agree with.

Not sure how you can disagree with the idea that players and parents should make up their own minds on what is best for them when and if they have that opportunity rather than speculating on something that has not and likely will not happen? That's the most reasonable and logical thing anyone can do in any situation I would think. Not sure how that is debateable?

Outoftowner wrote:

Shinbone_News wrote:Depends on what his intentions and wishes are, duh!

Plenty of kids set their sights on making the HS varsity team, and if possible making it to state. And that's enough for them -- and they can play hockey the rest of their lives in any case.

If the kid has skills and passion to play at a higher level, we cross that bridge when we get to it.

Agree with JSR on this one. Any parent who confesses to this juniors-before-graduation strategy is living out their fantasy through their kids. In Minnesota, the question is probably relevant only to the Justin Klooses and Hudson Faschings of the world, exceptional players on mediocre teams with marginal chances of post-season success and exposure. One chooses to stay at home and carry his team to State, the other takes the bait for the NTDP. Both will play at a higher level than high school hockey, but for one of those guys there are 10 other skilled players who will be lucky to play D3 even if they play juniors after high school.

I guess my big question is: Why the rush? It's not like taking one extra year to finish high school is going to prevent that kid from getting his shot at the NHL, if he's a real contender. So many hockey dads are paranoid that some other kid is getting ahead somewhere.

Or a parent is looking at possible opportunities based on their kids interest and dedication toward the sport of hockey. My kid won't go anywhere unless my kid wants to go. Just as my kid will only get as good as he wants to get and only my kid can put in the time and dedication needed to reach is dreams. The only thing I can do is to help facilitate and support opportunities for him to reach his full potential, based on HIS interest and dedication. What part of that is me living a fantasy through my kid?

I've had my shot; even won the big MN show. What I do know is the big show is a pipe dream for the majority of hockey players in MN today. Yet this pipe dream drives most of those players to share some kind of association/school loyalty that has them forgo better playing and development opportunities and stay with teams that will never make it due to their lack of depth and skill. You don't win the MN state tourney with one line of good forwards. You win it with top to bottom talent and a hot goaltender.

Better, higher skilled competition is what drives the majority of competitive players to get better. The odds are much better for the majority of players to reach their full potential if they find the highest competitive environment that will challenge their skills. This is irrefutable. The odd one man show superstar coming from nowhere is an anomaly and a poor example to give potentially great players reason to stay with their sucky high school team.

You got your shot and won the Big Show. Good for you. 20 kids per year get to do that, roughly 1000 kids have ever gotten to do that. But that doesn't keep 3000 from trying every year. Odds are overwhelmingly that most kids will never rise above their varsity HS teams, nor as you say even make "The Tourney." Odds are overwhelmingly that if they want to make that team badly enough, they will. All I'm saying is that this is a perfectly legitimate and noble and achievable goal for Minnesota youth hockey players, and fantisies about winning "the Big Show" are just that -- fantasies. And that's just fine. For many kids that play juniors, the dream of D1 or the NHL turns out to be a pipe-dream too.

If your kid is Junior/D1/NHL caliber, good for you. Knock yourself out and get him out of high school and into some billet home far away from friends and family just as soon as you can.

Personally, I'll wait to see if my kid is anywhere near that top 1% to even consider such a plan.

The odd one man show superstar coming from nowhere is an anomaly and a poor example to give potentially great players reason to stay with their sucky high school team.

Tell that to Backes, Jackman, Johnson, Kloos, Hanowski, Benike, et al.

JSR wrote:
Not sure how you can disagree with the idea that players and parents should make up their own minds on what is best for them when and if they have that opportunity rather than speculating on something that has not and likely will not happen? That's the most reasonable and logical thing anyone can do in any situation I would think. Not sure how that is debateable?

I'll stick by what I said. "Just like there's no one right skate or stick there's no one right answer to this question."

It's complicated. Throwing off inane comments like "Any parent who confesses to this juniors-before-graduation strategy is living out their fantasy through their kids" doesn't add to the discussion in any meaningful way.

And by the way, it's spelled "debatable."

Who are the big name kids who left early in the last five or six years? Seems the best minnesota kids, (nhl draft) are the ones who are staying.

this is an incredibly difficult question - and i would hope most would not pass judgement until you have been through it, or have been close to a family that has.

when recruiting junior & college coaches are suggesting such and such, it is very easy to get caught in the wash. It is important to remember that once you leave HS, hockey is a business and very few "advisors" have your personal intrests in mind.

IF your goal is to play D1, if you are good enough you will get a chance, regardless if you take the HS or Juniors route. There is not a fast path to success.

In the end it just a game and we all end up in the same beer league, some just take a longer path to get here.

25 sheet power wrote:Who are the big name kids who left early in the last five or six years? Seems the best minnesota kids, (nhl draft) are the ones who are staying.

Michaelson, Fasching, Osterberg, Skjei, Lucia, C.Olson, Reilly Brothers, Hunter Miska, Gage Asmus, Clint Lewis, Luke Voltin, derek Forbort, Justin Faulk, Matt Van Voorhis, Travis Boyd, Dan Carlson, Ian McCoshen, McQueen, Zach Stepan, Bennie Walker.

McBain, Okposo, Erik Johnson, Mueller......

I am sure there are more. Just can't think of any more off the top of my head.

D6Rocks wrote:

25 sheet power wrote:Who are the big name kids who left early in the last five or six years? Seems the best minnesota kids, (nhl draft) are the ones who are staying.

Michaelson, Fasching, Osterberg, Skjei, Lucia, C.Olson, Reilly Brothers, Hunter Miska, Gage Asmus, Clint Lewis, Luke Voltin, derek Forbort, Justin Faulk, Matt Van Voorhis, Travis Boyd, Dan Carlson, Ian McCoshen, McQueen, Zach Stepan, Bennie Walker.

McBain, Okposo, Erik Johnson, Mueller......

I am sure there are more. Just can't think of any more off the top of my head.

I'm talking about having proved that the move worked out.

I'll list players picked int he nhl draft in the first 2 rounds.

Brian Lee 9th in 2005 out of HS
Tj Oshie 24th in 2005 out of HS
Joe Finley 27th in 2005 out of USHL
Matt Niskanen 28 in 2005 out of HS
Ryan Stoa 34th in 05 out of Ntdp
Taylor Chorney 36th in 05 Shattuck

Erik Johnson 1st in 06 Ntdp
Kyle Okposo 7th in 06 Ushl
Peter Mueller 8th in 06 whl
David Fischer 20th in 06 HS
Carl Sneep 32nd in 06 HS
Jamie McBain 63rd in 06 Ntdp

Ryan McDonagh 12th in 07 HS
Patrick White 25th in 07 HS
Nico Sacchetti 50th in 07 HS
Mike Hoeffel 57th in 07 Ntdp

Jake Gardiner 17th in 08 HS
Aaron Ness 40th in 08 HS
Derek Stepan 50th in 08 Shattuck
Danny Kristo 56th in 08 Ndtp

Nick Leddy 16th in 09 HS
Jordan Schroeder 22rd in 09 Ndtp
Zach Budish 41st in 09 HS

Derek Forbort 15th in 10 Ntdp
Nick Bjugstad 19th in 10 HS
Brock Nelson 30th in 10 HS
Tyler Pitlick 31st in 10 HS
Justin Faulk 37th in 10 Ntdp
Mark Alt 53rd in 10 HS
Justin Holl 54th in 10 HS

Mario Lucia 60th in 11 Drafted out of HS

If you do the math more of the players who stayed got drafted and on average got drafted higher.

If your SON wants to play hockey after high school take this into consideration. I just went through the Junior hockey carousel with my son, he wanted to continue playing and will be playing D-3 hockey next season.

History.....he played Varsity as a sophmore, finished top 5 in scoring received All Conf HM. Got calls from 4-5 NAHL teams went to 1 tryout in NA and 1 in the USHL to see how they worked. Both teams stated they would watch him and keep in contact. USHL team keep in contact....NA team called next spring for tryouts.....or sorry..for money for tryouts. Coaching change at NA team no interest after that.

Junior year missed state tourney by 1 inch (kid hit the pipe in OT to win, inch to the left....history). Did tryouts for 3 NA teams but decided to head back to high school.....Alaska was to far away.

Senior season, average year.....way below expectations for himself and team. Received All Conf HM. Moderate NA interest, tried out for 3 teams on my dime and 2 others for free.

Ended up playing Tier 3 in the MNJHL. Much better then we expected finished top 5 in league for points. Next summer Drafted by NA team. Started season with NA team with them for 2 months, cut. Took sometime off to think about weather to hang them up and get on with life but decided he still wanted to play at the next level....back to Tier 3. Enrolled at a D3 school and will be playing for them next season.

Lessons we learned.
- If your kid will have 3 years of junior eligibilty after he graduates, stay in school. Too much movement, unstable teams and your education is more important.

- If your kid has only 2 years after graduating, has the skill and maturity consider playing juniors. With some things in mind. By that I mean do your homework on the junior teams. Consider the competition level at your high school, with whom and where they will play.

- The physical size of your player. Are they big enough to protect themselves. Are they mature enough to handle the many adult situations they might face.

- Do your homework.....seriously. Ask questions before it's too late.

- There are a couple of thousand kids playing Junior hockey ......all with the same dream, that D1 schoalrship....NHL contract. Be realistic, education will help seperate your player from the average. A D3/D1 coach can't take many chances on a kid that can't cut it in the class room.

In our world....my son wished he would have left HS early, In mom and dad's eyes....we are glad he stayed. He still hangs out with his HS hockey friends, had a great experience in HS dispite not getting to the holy grail of HS hockey. The closeness of his HS team was second to none. My younger son didn't attend the same HS as he attends a private school.......ended up quitting mid-season. Just had no passion for it any more. Might consider playing for a local Junior team or Junior Gold with some school friends next season. All fine with us.

Shinbone_News wrote:

Outoftowner wrote:

Shinbone_News wrote:Depends on what his intentions and wishes are, duh!

Plenty of kids set their sights on making the HS varsity team, and if possible making it to state. And that's enough for them -- and they can play hockey the rest of their lives in any case.

If the kid has skills and passion to play at a higher level, we cross that bridge when we get to it.

Agree with JSR on this one. Any parent who confesses to this juniors-before-graduation strategy is living out their fantasy through their kids. In Minnesota, the question is probably relevant only to the Justin Klooses and Hudson Faschings of the world, exceptional players on mediocre teams with marginal chances of post-season success and exposure. One chooses to stay at home and carry his team to State, the other takes the bait for the NTDP. Both will play at a higher level than high school hockey, but for one of those guys there are 10 other skilled players who will be lucky to play D3 even if they play juniors after high school.

I guess my big question is: Why the rush? It's not like taking one extra year to finish high school is going to prevent that kid from getting his shot at the NHL, if he's a real contender. So many hockey dads are paranoid that some other kid is getting ahead somewhere.

Or a parent is looking at possible opportunities based on their kids interest and dedication toward the sport of hockey. My kid won't go anywhere unless my kid wants to go. Just as my kid will only get as good as he wants to get and only my kid can put in the time and dedication needed to reach is dreams. The only thing I can do is to help facilitate and support opportunities for him to reach his full potential, based on HIS interest and dedication. What part of that is me living a fantasy through my kid?

I've had my shot; even won the big MN show. What I do know is the big show is a pipe dream for the majority of hockey players in MN today. Yet this pipe dream drives most of those players to share some kind of association/school loyalty that has them forgo better playing and development opportunities and stay with teams that will never make it due to their lack of depth and skill. You don't win the MN state tourney with one line of good forwards. You win it with top to bottom talent and a hot goaltender.

Better, higher skilled competition is what drives the majority of competitive players to get better. The odds are much better for the majority of players to reach their full potential if they find the highest competitive environment that will challenge their skills. This is irrefutable. The odd one man show superstar coming from nowhere is an anomaly and a poor example to give potentially great players reason to stay with their sucky high school team.

You got your shot and won the Big Show. Good for you. 20 kids per year get to do that, roughly 1000 kids have ever gotten to do that. But that doesn't keep 3000 from trying every year. Odds are overwhelmingly that most kids will never rise above their varsity HS teams, nor as you say even make "The Tourney." Odds are overwhelmingly that if they want to make that team badly enough, they will. All I'm saying is that this is a perfectly legitimate and noble and achievable goal for Minnesota youth hockey players, and fantisies about winning "the Big Show" are just that -- fantasies. And that's just fine. For many kids that play juniors, the dream of D1 or the NHL turns out to be a pipe-dream too.

If your kid is Junior/D1/NHL caliber, good for you. Knock yourself out and get him out of high school and into some billet home far away from friends and family just as soon as you can.

Personally, I'll wait to see if my kid is anywhere near that top 1% to even consider such a plan.

Which is what I said in the beginning. Our HS team will be horrible. If my kid is good enough to play juniors early and wants to go, I will help facilitate the opportunities. Still though it is not my fantasy, it is my kid's dream to be good. Which is what I was refuting from the beginning. If a kid has the potential and desire, I disagree with their parents keeping them on a low caliber HS team and saying "Well if you're good enough, you should be like Kloos". That is not the best way for the player to develop to his/her full potential.

The odd one man show superstar coming from nowhere is an anomaly and a poor example to give potentially great players reason to stay with their sucky high school team.

Tell that to Backes, Jackman, Johnson, Kloos, Hanowski, Benike, et al.

Tell them what? They they are on a short list? Or that their teams were not exactly horrible? Your little list does not exactly refute my point, that the superstar coming from a sucky HS team is an anomaly. The MAJORITY of the best HS players coming out of MN, had an at least moderately good team to play on and competed against moderate to good competition. The other route has been Juniors, Open enrollment, Development team, or to move. Either way these players went in search of competition or were fortunate enough to be living where there is competition to develop to their full potential.


The point of the OP is asking if people are considering leaving school to play juniors. The purpose of my response in this thread is number one, to provide a scenario in which leaving early my be a good idea and number two, to refute your errant blanket statement that "anyone considering juniors before graduation is living a fantasy through their kid".


I can't help but hear a quit and give up message in this post. Its all dreams so give up and play on a horrible HS team. You're not going anywhere. Is that your point? Is that your advise to potentially great players on a poor team?

auld_skool wrote:

JSR wrote:
Not sure how you can disagree with the idea that players and parents should make up their own minds on what is best for them when and if they have that opportunity rather than speculating on something that has not and likely will not happen? That's the most reasonable and logical thing anyone can do in any situation I would think. Not sure how that is debateable?

I'll stick by what I said. "Just like there's no one right skate or stick there's no one right answer to this question."

It's complicated. Throwing off inane comments like "Any parent who confesses to this juniors-before-graduation strategy is living out their fantasy through their kids" doesn't add to the discussion in any meaningful way.

And by the way, it's spelled "debatable."

Thanks for the spelling lesson. I'll return the favor and offer a reading comprehension lesson in that the quote you just put up was not mine, it was another posters, nor did I agree with that exact statement, especially when taken out of the context in which I believed it was intended... guess that makes us even....

JSR wrote:
Thanks for the spelling lesson. I'll return the favor and offer a reading comprehension lesson in that the quote you just put up was not mine, it was another posters, nor did I agree with that exact statement, especially when taken out of the context in which I believed it was intended... guess that makes us even....

You're quite welcome. In regard to the misguided reading comprehension lesson, please read my post. Nowhere did I say that the particular idiotic statement was yours. We're not even and I'm not guessing, although I think we might agree to some extent about how involved a decision like this is.

auld_skool wrote:

JSR wrote:
Thanks for the spelling lesson. I'll return the favor and offer a reading comprehension lesson in that the quote you just put up was not mine, it was another posters, nor did I agree with that exact statement, especially when taken out of the context in which I believed it was intended... guess that makes us even....

You're quite welcome. In regard to the misguided reading comprehension lesson, please read my post. Nowhere did I say that the particular idiotic statement was yours. We're not even and I'm not guessing, although I think we might agree to some extent about how involved a decision like this is.

Well, when you quote someone in a message board it is presumed you are talking directly to that person and only that person, so you can see where things went awry there. And yes, it is a complicated decision with no right or wrong answers, which is what I thought I said just in a different way

black sheep wrote:this is an incredibly difficult question - and i would hope most would not pass judgement until you have been through it, or have been close to a family that has.

when recruiting junior & college coaches are suggesting such and such, it is very easy to get caught in the wash. It is important to remember that once you leave HS, hockey is a business and very few "advisors" have your personal intrests in mind.

IF your goal is to play D1, if you are good enough you will get a chance, regardless if you take the HS or Juniors route. There is not a fast path to success.

In the end it just a game and we all end up in the same beer league, some just take a longer path to get here.

Excellent post - USHL teams operate as businesses (as I suspect the NAHL and BCHL do). They can (and do) make a lot of promises of ice time and enhanced development that can make kids and their families "drool" about the prize at the end. Bottom line, if you aren't helping them win (and make money) they'll cut you loose so fast it'll make your head spin. It's always going to be an individual player/family decision, but unless a player is an unquestioned superior talent (i.e. Taylor Cammarata) I don't think finishing your H.S. career is this huge obstacle that can't be overcome. I think if a player has the skill and desire, once he graduates he'll be able to make a team in juniors and earn a scholarship. If not, he probably wasn't and isn't that good to begin with. IMHO