BRECK SINCE 2008
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:12 pm
What are your opinions on the second section??????
Breck is the obvious answer folks.
Who else???
Breck is the obvious answer folks.
Who else???
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BRECK SINCE 2008
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:21 pm
It doesn't appear there is a "who else" this year. Breck wins this just like they do every year and will likely square off one last time against the Cadets.
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:39 pm
Why do people think Breck should opt up, they have less than 400 people which is completely different from STA and BSM who each have 1000 students
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:31 pm
St Thomas actually only has about 530
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:59 pm
Actually 533 in Grades 9-12, but they are all male! For comparison purposes you need to double that. I was curious how the enrollments of the top private schools compare so I look them up on the MSHSL website:thebluemamba wrote:St Thomas actually only has about 530
Cretin-Derham Hall = 1,327
STA (533 x 2) = 1,066
BSM = 930
Holy Angels = 741
Hill-Murray = 705
Holy Family = 595
Blake = 521
Rochester Lourdes = 460
Breck = 398
St. Paul Academy = 353
Providence = 287
Duluth Marshall = 236
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:27 pm
Their overall success.HawkyFan9 wrote:Why do people think Breck should opt up
4 State titles since 2000 (2010, 2009, 2004, 2000)
Although they've made the state tourney 4 straight years (currently), I honestly don't see why they should opt up... yet.
It was right for STA to opt up. For the past several years, STA has had a AA regular season schedule, and they've won 4 state Class A titles in the past 7 years (might be 5/8 this coming March).
Breck is simply not dominating their class like STA has.
However, their time may come soon.
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:04 pm
While they don't have the titles in the past two years, a case could be made that they're doing similarly well to St Thomas in the last handful of years. I know I'm in the minority here, but if you look at the results of games and not just the record, St Thomas hasn't even been that dominant. But if you take St Thomas out of the equation for the last handful of years, and now the coming years, Breck is hands down the best team is Class A and will continue to be. If they don't opt up, they are likely the favorite to win the next two titles.PuckU126 wrote:Breck is simply not dominating their class like STA has.HawkyFan9 wrote:Why do people think Breck should opt up
Right now they'd probably be the second best team in their AA section. If Class really does play a role in choosing a school as much as some claim, they could contend for the top spot by moving up. Although, they'd likely want to get some wiggle room from their conference (maybe just one game per opponent) before a move as their schedule doesn't have much room for improve.
I do think the elephant in the room that few want to discuss is the end result of certain schools moving to AA. There are a few (maybe even a handful of) current Class A schools whose program would likely benefit long term from opting up. Right or wrong, there seems to be more hockey players at private schools now. Although, with every good program opting up, Class A loses what quality it has. It's a interesting situation with no seemingly "correct" answer.
Just my two cents...if it's worth that much to you
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:43 am
Breck should move up because;
1. Over the past 13 years they have had the exact same success as STA. Both have been to 6 tourney's, made the finals 4 times and won it all the 4 times that they've made the finals.
2. While they have almost 2/3 less boys in the upper school than STA has (533-199), they are one of the top 4 most succesful hockey recruiting schools in the state. Right up there with HM, BSM and STA and it doesn't appear that it's going to stop anytime soon as they have one of the finest facilities in the state, offer arguably one of the best college prep opportunities in the midwest and have an alumni that pays BIG bucks to fund hockey players -and in some instances their siblings tuition.
3. Like STA over the past decade, they have had plenty of success when playing AA teams.
4. It's simply the right thing to do. For the kids at Breck, for their opponents in A and for the dignity of the school.
With all that said. Its highly unlikely that they move up anytime soon as they will continue to use the excuse that they have one of the smallest single A enrollments in the state.
The real answer is to go to a single 16 team state tourney and then that will make this argument go away once and for all.
1. Over the past 13 years they have had the exact same success as STA. Both have been to 6 tourney's, made the finals 4 times and won it all the 4 times that they've made the finals.
2. While they have almost 2/3 less boys in the upper school than STA has (533-199), they are one of the top 4 most succesful hockey recruiting schools in the state. Right up there with HM, BSM and STA and it doesn't appear that it's going to stop anytime soon as they have one of the finest facilities in the state, offer arguably one of the best college prep opportunities in the midwest and have an alumni that pays BIG bucks to fund hockey players -and in some instances their siblings tuition.
3. Like STA over the past decade, they have had plenty of success when playing AA teams.
4. It's simply the right thing to do. For the kids at Breck, for their opponents in A and for the dignity of the school.
With all that said. Its highly unlikely that they move up anytime soon as they will continue to use the excuse that they have one of the smallest single A enrollments in the state.
The real answer is to go to a single 16 team state tourney and then that will make this argument go away once and for all.
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:23 am
Your words are worth some... on a good day.HShockeywatcher wrote:While they don't have the titles in the past two years, a case could be made that they're doing similarly well to St Thomas in the last handful of years. I know I'm in the minority here, but if you look at the results of games and not just the record, St Thomas hasn't even been that dominant. But if you take St Thomas out of the equation for the last handful of years, and now the coming years, Breck is hands down the best team is Class A and will continue to be. If they don't opt up, they are likely the favorite to win the next two titles.PuckU126 wrote:Breck is simply not dominating their class like STA has.HawkyFan9 wrote:Why do people think Breck should opt up
Right now they'd probably be the second best team in their AA section. If Class really does play a role in choosing a school as much as some claim, they could contend for the top spot by moving up. Although, they'd likely want to get some wiggle room from their conference (maybe just one game per opponent) before a move as their schedule doesn't have much room for improve.
I do think the elephant in the room that few want to discuss is the end result of certain schools moving to AA. There are a few (maybe even a handful of) current Class A schools whose program would likely benefit long term from opting up. Right or wrong, there seems to be more hockey players at private schools now. Although, with every good program opting up, Class A loses what quality it has. It's a interesting situation with no seemingly "correct" answer.
Just my two cents...if it's worth that much to you
You get a lot flak, but at least you attempt to defend your position logically, which is commendable.
I agree that the answer to "fixing" Class A is complex; however, STA moving up is a start. Breck, Hermantown and down the road, Duluth Marshal maybe next on the list.
We'll see..
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:07 am
The same in both of these instance can be said about Hermantown (and probably a few other places like Warroad):Redlight wrote:Breck should move up because;
2. While they have almost 2/3 less boys in the upper school than STA has (533-199), they are one of the top 4 most succesful hockey recruiting schools in the state. Right up there with HM, BSM and STA and it doesn't appear that it's going to stop anytime soon as they have one of the finest facilities in the state, offer arguably one of the best college prep opportunities in the midwest and have an alumni that pays BIG bucks to fund hockey players -and in some instances their siblings tuition.
With all that said. Its highly unlikely that they move up anytime soon as they will continue to use the excuse that they have one of the smallest single A enrollments in the state.
Whether people choose to ignore it or not, the fact of the matter is that the families of the people that attend schools generally weren't living in that community for generations upon generations. Heck, one of the top things people look at when they buy a house is the school district. By being a good school district, you are recruiting. And Hermantown is one of the best in the state. They have unbelievable academics, they have a great, close community and the vast majority of their athletics are successful regularly. People want to move to Hermantown to send their kids there.
Sure, there are supposed shady things that go on at different places, both public and private, but the way school districts like Hermantown recruit is the same way the vast majority of private school recruiting happens.
Isn't being small the reason to be in Class A??
In the same 13 years (seems like a kind of arbitrary number...):
-Warroad has been to state 7 times, with 2 titles, and made it to the finals 3 times.
-Hermantown has been to state 6 times, with 1 title, and made it to the finals 4 times. They have also gotten no less than 3rd place in those 6 trips.
The only reason for one (or two) of these teams to be targeted and not others is that they are private. Plain and simple.
In the hypothetical world that Breck and St Thomas weren't in Class A this year, and that Hermantown can avenge yet another 5-4 loss in the section finals, they would likely roll to a title, dominating the competition this year. Were these two teams not there the last few years, we'd likely be talking about a 4-peat for them, with no real end in sight.
While it's a successful, small town school doing the winning, that doesn't seem to be "the point of Class A" as many elude to.
You could likely add Duluth Marshall to this list; while they don't have a title they've been 6 times, getting 3rd twice and 2nd twice.
For me it's never really been about this team or that team in which class, it's been about the long term effects of that happening. I think it is clear, even in the short term, that the long term effects of many schools leaving Class A is not good in terms of what is happening to the sport. Blaming people for being successful only works for so long.PuckU126 wrote:You get a lot flak, but at least you attempt to defend your position logically, which is commendable.
I agree that the answer to "fixing" Class A is complex; however, STA moving up is a start. Breck, Hermantown and down the road, Duluth Marshal maybe next on the list.
I still think either a) no opt ups or b) opt ups then the bottom 64 teams, with co-ops of schools that would normally be in Class A being in Class A in both situations. Both situations would make for a better Class A tournament.
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:59 am
There's a huge difference between being small and working for success and being a small private program that is recruiting for their success.
Achiever Academy's enrollment (few in numbers, but what are they there for?) numbers should turn lightbulb on for everyone.
Enrollment means nothing in private programs.
Achiever Academy's enrollment (few in numbers, but what are they there for?) numbers should turn lightbulb on for everyone.
Enrollment means nothing in private programs.
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:12 am
I think it would be hard to put a team like Hermantown or Duluth Marshall into AA. All it would take is a few bad years and that would probably lead to kids wanting to attend elsewhere because of those bad years and then you have a snowball effect and those teams become average AA schools in the long run.
With teams like Breck and STA, you dont have that problem because the high end recruiting will always be there, the money will always be there, and a bad season is simply a bad season. You will still have the kids and money coming in, so there is never any real threat to just becoming an average program in the long run.
With teams like Breck and STA, you dont have that problem because the high end recruiting will always be there, the money will always be there, and a bad season is simply a bad season. You will still have the kids and money coming in, so there is never any real threat to just becoming an average program in the long run.
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:31 am
Move up and be challenged, it is the right thing to do.
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Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:11 am
Would it be possible at all to split the state hockey tournament into 4 brackets instead of 16 playing down
1-small school
2-medium school
3-large school
4-parochial/private
then bring the 4 into the big house (X) for a final four tournament of champions kind of thing or was something like that done in 83 and it didn't work then so why discuss it now? Just brainstorming
1-small school
2-medium school
3-large school
4-parochial/private
then bring the 4 into the big house (X) for a final four tournament of champions kind of thing or was something like that done in 83 and it didn't work then so why discuss it now? Just brainstorming
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:20 am
Maybe privates should have a separate tourny. Then have the winners play.
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:00 am
Last year 6 of the 8 AA teams in the tourney were public schools. The top 4 seeds were all public schools. They earned those seeds. They didn't take care of business and opened the door for 2 private schools to play for a title. People act as if private schools dominate and public schools have no shot.old goalie85 wrote:Maybe privates should have a separate tourny. Then have the winners play.
This year there could see anywhere from 0-3 private school teams in the tourney. There will always be more public school represente at State. If ya don't like em, beat em/root against em, but booting em is not an option.
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:50 am
Per our ranking experts HSHockeyWatcher and Karl, the top 2 teams in both polls are privates.
A
STA
Breck
AA
HM
BSM
Times are a changing.....
A
STA
Breck
AA
HM
BSM
Times are a changing.....
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:25 am
Polls are for dancers! 
Truth is public schools continue to win more state titles and will continue to do so. If you wanna make a wager of State Champions and I get to pick public or private, I'll pick public every year and win the vast majority of times.
My argument excludes Class A, well, because it's Class A.
Truth is public schools continue to win more state titles and will continue to do so. If you wanna make a wager of State Champions and I get to pick public or private, I'll pick public every year and win the vast majority of times.
My argument excludes Class A, well, because it's Class A.
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:56 pm
Might it be that those changing with them are having more recent success?BodyShots wrote:Per our ranking experts HSHockeyWatcher and Karl, the top 2 teams in both polls are privates.
A
STA
Breck
AA
HM
BSM
Times are a changing.....
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:46 pm
And you know this recent success is guaranteed to last; just ask Holy Angels and Blake.HShockeywatcher wrote:Might it be that those changing with them are having more recent success?BodyShots wrote:Per our ranking experts HSHockeyWatcher and Karl, the top 2 teams in both polls are privates.
A
STA
Breck
AA
HM
BSM
Times are a changing.....
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:40 pm
I hate to bring up old bs...but there was a time when most people wanted Warroad out of class A..... then the private schools started winning class A and most forgot....
?
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:54 pm
Its funny because Breck doesn't recruit...I'm willing to hear a good reply from this.
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:06 am
It's pretty simple, the classes were broken up originally on enrollment. Now that smaller schools are playing at a higher level, they should opt up to play at their competition level. It's High School Hockey for F's sake, if your team is good enough to play at a higher level then that is where you should be playing.
I think the way the classes are broken out now is just ridiculous, it is biased based on a good school district and private schools who can recruit. Large schools in a terrible school district are going to always lose their best players to a private school in the area.
Way she goes...
I think the way the classes are broken out now is just ridiculous, it is biased based on a good school district and private schools who can recruit. Large schools in a terrible school district are going to always lose their best players to a private school in the area.
Way she goes...
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:11 am
BodyShots wrote:Per our ranking experts HSHockeyWatcher and Karl, the top 2 teams in both polls are privates.
A
STA
Breck
AA
HM
BSM
Times are a changing.....
Re: ?
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:42 pm
I second thisMHL All-Star wrote:Its funny because Breck doesn't recruit...I'm willing to hear a good reply from this.