5 Stereotypes of MN players

[YouthHockeyHub]

At the recent NAHL Showcase, we met several NHL, College and Junior scouts. During discussions around the rink we asked these coaches and scouts about Minnesota players and what they've come to expect when looking at a Minnesota kid. Some are good, some are bad and some are just a reality.

http://www.youthhockeyhub.com/the-minne ... you-betcha

Enjoy,

TS

[nahc]

So very true. Big, strong defensemen who actually play defense are looked down upon in Minnesota if they can't go end to end with the puck and make sparkling plays. That's why you don't see these types of kids in the elite leagues.......... Give my 4 big strong D who can handle the puck in their own end, play tough D especially in front of their net, clear the puck when needed and give that gutty performance everytime they are out on the ice...........will take them over 4 end to end D hands down.....

[57special]

Speaking as someone who has moved in from outside MN but has been involved in MN hockey for about 5 years, I would have to say I have been Impressed by the quality of MN hockey. In general, I would say that MN hockey emphasizes puck skills and skating, which is a good thing. I would say that grit and size is undervalued. Can't speak to goaltending, but I have a feeling that it could be better. In general, though, MN has the benefit of having some terrific hockey in a relatively small area all under the same rules. Not sure that I'm a big fan of HS hockey... I appreciate the passion, but feel that a lot of potentially good late developers leave the game early when they don't make a HS team, and also think that more and more of the strong HS players are leaving due to the lack of games at the HS level.

As to too much hockey year round? Maybe. This odd birthdate deal necessitates playing on two teams if one wants to do some off season work. I do know that the AA (I.e. best community level) hockey tryouts start in early/mid August in parts of Canada. That's a full month earlier than here in MN.

I think the MN players are plenty offensive, but there is a tendency for them to dangle rather than shoot.

[bemused]

So very true. Big, strong defensemen who actually play defense are looked down upon in Minnesota if they can't go end to end with the puck and make sparkling plays. That's why you don't see these types of kids in the elite leagues.......... Give my 4 big strong D who can handle the puck in their own end, play tough D especially in front of their net, clear the puck when needed and give that gutty performance everytime they are out on the ice...........will take them over 4 end to end D hands down.....

Have to agree on the "D' comments..i think a lot of it is Gopher driven i.e.: Marshall, Reilly, Ness, Fairchild, etc..and the success only some of those kind of players can have in HS hockey but not at the next level..Maybe when the two (former Benilde) redwoods Lucia recruited from Ann Arbor show up Mn high school coaches will figure out bigger can be better on the blue line. It works for North Dakota and the USHL.

[karl(east)]

Some good thoughts here. I'll also agree that Minnesota D-men tend to do a lot of wandering forward (perhaps because youth and HS teams need them to score in order to win), but that there's a relative lack of good stay-at-home D. Likewise, we're good at producing smallish forwards who put up a ton of points (Rau, Kloos, Cammarata, etc.), but because of their size, they don't necessarily project well to the highest levels. This neglects some and helps others, though the same would be true if Minnesota were more like everywhere else. We're just different. It'll also be worth watching to see how hockey changes over the years; if the game does become a bit more "European" in style as fears about concussions and so on grow, Minnesota's emphasis on smaller, skilled players might prove an asset. (As a tall person myself, I say this with some disappointment.) Time will tell.

The "Minnesota Nice" point is also a good one. I can think of a couple of players with a lot of potential but some softness who left Minnesota early for other opportunities; I thought they'd probably made good decisions, as the USHL/NTDP/certain colleges with reputations would toughen them up. Alas, in not one of those cases did it really happen. Apparently Minnesota Nice is too deeply ingrained.

Not sure that I'm a big fan of HS hockey... I appreciate the passion, but feel that a lot of potentially good late developers leave the game early when they don't make a HS team, and also think that more and more of the strong HS players are leaving due to the lack of games at the HS level.

I'm not sure I buy this last bit. Maybe it's true at Edina or Wayzata, but in most places, I'd argue the opposite: it gives kids with no post-HS ambitions something to aim for, and lets a lot of them participate at a reasonably high level of hockey. (Where would these kids be playing if there was no HS hockey--do we honestly think they'd all play for pricier private teams detached from HS social life, or for junior gold teams?)

HS hockey's conundrum is that these HS-focused athletes are sharing the ice with kids with very real D-I aspirations (and beyond), and it has to try to keep both camps happy. If you upset the high-end kids and their families, they run off and play elsewhere; if you upset the people more interested in participation, they quit, and the community-based model withers away. It's a tricky balance.

[stromboli]

Some good thoughts here. I'll also agree that Minnesota D-men tend to do a lot of wandering forward (perhaps because youth and HS teams need them to score in order to win), but that there's a relative lack of good stay-at-home D. Likewise, we're good at producing smallish forwards who put up a ton of points (Rau, Kloos, Cammarata, etc.), but because of their size, they don't necessarily project well to the highest levels. This neglects some and helps others, though the same would be true if Minnesota were more like everywhere else. We're just different. It'll also be worth watching to see how hockey changes over the years; if the game does become a bit more "European" in style as fears about concussions and so on grow, Minnesota's emphasis on smaller, skilled players might prove an asset. (As a tall person myself, I say this with some disappointment.) Time will tell.

The "Minnesota Nice" point is also a good one. I can think of a couple of players with a lot of potential but some softness who left Minnesota early for other opportunities; I thought they'd probably made good decisions, as the USHL/NTDP/certain colleges with reputations would toughen them up. Alas, in not one of those cases did it really happen. Apparently Minnesota Nice is too deeply ingrained.

Not sure that I'm a big fan of HS hockey... I appreciate the passion, but feel that a lot of potentially good late developers leave the game early when they don't make a HS team, and also think that more and more of the strong HS players are leaving due to the lack of games at the HS level.

I'm not sure I buy this last bit. Maybe it's true at Edina or Wayzata, but in most places, I'd argue the opposite: it gives kids with no post-HS ambitions something to aim for, and lets a lot of them participate at a reasonably high level of hockey. (Where would these kids be playing if there was no HS hockey--do we honestly think they'd all play for pricier private teams detached from HS social life, or for junior gold teams?)

HS hockey's conundrum is that these HS-focused athletes are sharing the ice with kids with very real D-I aspirations (and beyond), and it has to try to keep both camps happy. If you upset the high-end kids and their families, they run off and play elsewhere; if you upset the people more interested in participation, they quit, and the community-based model withers away. It's a tricky balance.

The conundrum is a very short season and 25 games compared to the rest of the country and Canada. The community models does just fine at the Bantam level with kids playing roughly three times that number of games.

I love MN highschool hockey. But 25 games doesn't provide the same level of game experience and development (or scouting) enjoyed by others.

[karl(east)]

The conundrum is a very short season and 25 games compared to the rest of the country and Canada. The community models does just fine at the Bantam level with kids playing roughly three times that number of games.

I love MN highschool hockey. But 25 games doesn't provide the same level of game experience and development (or scouting) enjoyed by others.

Well, yes and no. 25 games over 3 months isn't all that different from what you'd be playing in a junior league, or even in the NCAA. Most HS players with post-HS aspirations are playing Elite League (or at least Elite D) before the season; add those in, and you're over 50 games. Some players then go play in the USHL after the HS season; add that, and there are a number of MN HS players who are playing in 60+ hockey games every winter. Granted, a handful of games may not be all that competitive, but the difference between that and the USHL or NAHL (in terms of games played) is negligible.

The issue, of course, is the way the Elite League is run, and the lack of an equivalent after the HS season.

[JSR]

The conundrum is a very short season and 25 games compared to the rest of the country and Canada. The community models does just fine at the Bantam level with kids playing roughly three times that number of games.

I love MN highschool hockey. But 25 games doesn't provide the same level of game experience and development (or scouting) enjoyed by others.

Well, yes and no. 25 games over 3 months isn't all that different from what you'd be playing in a junior league, or even in the NCAA. Most HS players with post-HS aspirations are playing Elite League (or at least Elite D) before the season; add those in, and you're over 50 games. Some players then go play in the USHL after the HS season; add that, and there are a number of MN HS players who are playing in 60+ hockey games every winter. Granted, a handful of games may not be all that competitive, but the difference between that and the USHL or NAHL (in terms of games played) is negligible.

The issue, of course, is the way the Elite League is run, and the lack of an equivalent after the HS season.

Honestly the "post season" issue seems like a relatively easy solve if MN Hockey would just allow the Elite League teams to register as Tier 1 teams and compete in the post season state, distict, and national championships. Right now Schattuck walk into nationals every year, but just think if they had to play any of the Elite League teams in a state and/or district tourney just to get to nationals.... And you don't need to creat a "super team" the teams the league has as is are compaetitive enough to compete at the national Tier 1 level. Look at Team Wisconsin, they compete in your Elite League before season but compete in our Tier 1 state tourney in the post season and if they win that they go on to Central Districts and then possibly to nationals.... to me it's a great win-win scenario for those kids.... the one "hurdle" is probably needing to move the MN High School hockey tourney up a week to accomodate that... and I am not really sure why that is such a "hurdle", would it really be that big of a deal, we do it in WI..... just sayin.... note that by also doing this you would open up the opportunity for your Elite League teams to play other Tier 1 teams outside of your league during the before season as well, so games against the Mission etc... could become common place, times change you need to change with them if you are to preserve the nugget you love so much up there, that being the HS State Hockey tourney......

[MNM JMH]

The conundrum is a very short season and 25 games compared to the rest of the country and Canada. The community models does just fine at the Bantam level with kids playing roughly three times that number of games.

I love MN highschool hockey. But 25 games doesn't provide the same level of game experience and development (or scouting) enjoyed by others.

Well, yes and no. 25 games over 3 months isn't all that different from what you'd be playing in a junior league, or even in the NCAA. Most HS players with post-HS aspirations are playing Elite League (or at least Elite D) before the season; add those in, and you're over 50 games. Some players then go play in the USHL after the HS season; add that, and there are a number of MN HS players who are playing in 60+ hockey games every winter. Granted, a handful of games may not be all that competitive, but the difference between that and the USHL or NAHL (in terms of games played) is negligible.

The issue, of course, is the way the Elite League is run, and the lack of an equivalent after the HS season.

Honestly the "post season" issue seems like a relatively easy solve if MN Hockey would just allow the Elite League teams to register as Tier 1 teams and compete in the post season state, distict, and national championships. Right now Schattuck walk into nationals every year, but just think if they had to play any of the Elite League teams in a state and/or district tourney just to get to nationals.... And you don't need to creat a "super team" the teams the league has as is are compaetitive enough to compete at the national Tier 1 level. Look at Team Wisconsin, they compete in your Elite League before season but compete in our Tier 1 state tourney in the post season and if they win that they go on to Central Districts and then possibly to nationals.... to me it's a great win-win scenario for those kids.... the one "hurdle" is probably needing to move the MN High School hockey tourney up a week to accomodate that... and I am not really sure why that is such a "hurdle", would it really be that big of a deal, we do it in WI..... just sayin.... note that by also doing this you would open up the opportunity for your Elite League teams to play other Tier 1 teams outside of your league during the before season as well, so games against the Mission etc... could become common place, times change you need to change with them if you are to preserve the nugget you love so much up there, that being the HS State Hockey tourney......

USHL or NAHL

[Mite-dad]

Do those good, solid S-A-H defensemen get noticed? Maybe they are out there but they don't get recruited by NCAA teams or Junior teams. They are drawn to the flashy d-man.

[JSR]

Well, yes and no. 25 games over 3 months isn't all that different from what you'd be playing in a junior league, or even in the NCAA. Most HS players with post-HS aspirations are playing Elite League (or at least Elite D) before the season; add those in, and you're over 50 games. Some players then go play in the USHL after the HS season; add that, and there are a number of MN HS players who are playing in 60+ hockey games every winter. Granted, a handful of games may not be all that competitive, but the difference between that and the USHL or NAHL (in terms of games played) is negligible.

The issue, of course, is the way the Elite League is run, and the lack of an equivalent after the HS season.

Honestly the "post season" issue seems like a relatively easy solve if MN Hockey would just allow the Elite League teams to register as Tier 1 teams and compete in the post season state, distict, and national championships. Right now Schattuck walk into nationals every year, but just think if they had to play any of the Elite League teams in a state and/or district tourney just to get to nationals.... And you don't need to creat a "super team" the teams the league has as is are compaetitive enough to compete at the national Tier 1 level. Look at Team Wisconsin, they compete in your Elite League before season but compete in our Tier 1 state tourney in the post season and if they win that they go on to Central Districts and then possibly to nationals.... to me it's a great win-win scenario for those kids.... the one "hurdle" is probably needing to move the MN High School hockey tourney up a week to accomodate that... and I am not really sure why that is such a "hurdle", would it really be that big of a deal, we do it in WI..... just sayin.... note that by also doing this you would open up the opportunity for your Elite League teams to play other Tier 1 teams outside of your league during the before season as well, so games against the Mission etc... could become common place, times change you need to change with them if you are to preserve the nugget you love so much up there, that being the HS State Hockey tourney......

USHL or NAHL

Actually that does not answer the question as there are too few kids who are ready to play at the Junior A level in their junior or senior years of high school. There are some but it's not the majority of Elite League kids..... There are ALOT more that become physically and mentally mature enough post high school to play juniors. So there still needs to be a solution for those kids. Also, even for the ones who are capable down here in WI, there are alot of kids who play for Team Wisconsin before season, play high school during the season, then play TW again for post season tourney play then continue on to finish the season with a NAHL or USHL team.... .. seriously it makes no sense ot me at all why there is such push back to an "after season" program, it does nothing but help retain high school players and does nothing to hurt the high school season......

[karl(east)]

Honestly the "post season" issue seems like a relatively easy solve if MN Hockey would just allow the Elite League teams to register as Tier 1 teams and compete in the post season state, distict, and national championships. Right now Schattuck walk into nationals every year, but just think if they had to play any of the Elite League teams in a state and/or district tourney just to get to nationals.... And you don't need to creat a "super team" the teams the league has as is are compaetitive enough to compete at the national Tier 1 level. Look at Team Wisconsin, they compete in your Elite League before season but compete in our Tier 1 state tourney in the post season and if they win that they go on to Central Districts and then possibly to nationals.... to me it's a great win-win scenario for those kids.... the one "hurdle" is probably needing to move the MN High School hockey tourney up a week to accomodate that... and I am not really sure why that is such a "hurdle", would it really be that big of a deal, we do it in WI..... just sayin.... note that by also doing this you would open up the opportunity for your Elite League teams to play other Tier 1 teams outside of your league during the before season as well, so games against the Mission etc... could become common place, times change you need to change with them if you are to preserve the nugget you love so much up there, that being the HS State Hockey tourney......

USHL or NAHL

Actually that does not answer the question as there are too few kids who are ready to play at the Junior A level in their junior or senior years of high school. There are some but it's not the majority of Elite League kids..... There are ALOT more that become physically and mentally mature enough post high school to play juniors. So there still needs to be a solution for those kids. Also, even for the ones who are capable down here in WI, there are alot of kids who play for Team Wisconsin before season, play high school during the season, then play TW again for post season tourney play then continue on to finish the season with a NAHL or USHL team.... .. seriously it makes no sense ot me at all why there is such push back to an "after season" program, it does nothing but help retain high school players and does nothing to hurt the high school season......

I'd push back against the notion that most Elite League players aren't ready for the NAHL. They may be younger in general, but every year, there seem to be a handful of players, usually from small towns with weak hockey programs, who head off to the NAHL after failing to make an Elite League team. Part of that may be an issue with how the Elite League selects players (a debate for a different time and place), but I'd hazard to guess that at least half would be able to make that transition. I know of a couple of players from Duluth East alone that are playing regularly in the NAHL this year despite not making the Elite League last season (and I don't think they were robbed or cut unfairly). I'm sure I could find others if I went looking for them.

On the after season program, I agree completely. It seems like a stupidly easy thing to set up.

[JSR]

USHL or NAHL

Actually that does not answer the question as there are too few kids who are ready to play at the Junior A level in their junior or senior years of high school. There are some but it's not the majority of Elite League kids..... There are ALOT more that become physically and mentally mature enough post high school to play juniors. So there still needs to be a solution for those kids. Also, even for the ones who are capable down here in WI, there are alot of kids who play for Team Wisconsin before season, play high school during the season, then play TW again for post season tourney play then continue on to finish the season with a NAHL or USHL team.... .. seriously it makes no sense ot me at all why there is such push back to an "after season" program, it does nothing but help retain high school players and does nothing to hurt the high school season......

I'd push back against the notion that most Elite League players aren't ready for the NAHL. They may be younger in general, but every year, there seem to be a handful of players, usually from small towns with weak hockey programs, who head off to the NAHL after failing to make an Elite League team. Part of that may be an issue with how the Elite League selects players (a debate for a different time and place), but I'd hazard to guess that at least half would be able to make that transition. I know of a couple of players from Duluth East alone that are playing regularly in the NAHL this year despite not making the Elite League last season (and I don't think they were robbed or cut unfairly). I'm sure I could find others if I went looking for them.

On the after season program, I agree completely. It seems like a stupidly easy thing to set up.

It's not just a question of "ability" there is more to it than that when playing Junior hockey. The mental aspect, the emotional maturity aspect, and to a small degree the "social" aspect are as important as the physical and technical skill aspects of the game and some players just aren't "ready" in high school is all I am saying, if they all were then they'd all be playing now but they aren't..... but even if you are correct, you are saying half can make the transition, even if that is true what about the other half, that's ALOT of players..... but I think we agree the after season thing seems way to easy of a solution to keep KIDS at home while still in high school but still aid in their hockey development

[Froggy Richards]

The conundrum is a very short season and 25 games compared to the rest of the country and Canada. The community models does just fine at the Bantam level with kids playing roughly three times that number of games.

I love MN highschool hockey. But 25 games doesn't provide the same level of game experience and development (or scouting) enjoyed by others.

Well, yes and no. 25 games over 3 months isn't all that different from what you'd be playing in a junior league, or even in the NCAA. Most HS players with post-HS aspirations are playing Elite League (or at least Elite D) before the season; add those in, and you're over 50 games. Some players then go play in the USHL after the HS season; add that, and there are a number of MN HS players who are playing in 60+ hockey games every winter. Granted, a handful of games may not be all that competitive, but the difference between that and the USHL or NAHL (in terms of games played) is negligible.

The issue, of course, is the way the Elite League is run, and the lack of an equivalent after the HS season.

Honestly the "post season" issue seems like a relatively easy solve if MN Hockey would just allow the Elite League teams to register as Tier 1 teams and compete in the post season state, distict, and national championships. Right now Schattuck walk into nationals every year, but just think if they had to play any of the Elite League teams in a state and/or district tourney just to get to nationals.... And you don't need to creat a "super team" the teams the league has as is are compaetitive enough to compete at the national Tier 1 level. Look at Team Wisconsin, they compete in your Elite League before season but compete in our Tier 1 state tourney in the post season and if they win that they go on to Central Districts and then possibly to nationals.... to me it's a great win-win scenario for those kids.... the one "hurdle" is probably needing to move the MN High School hockey tourney up a week to accomodate that... and I am not really sure why that is such a "hurdle", would it really be that big of a deal, we do it in WI..... just sayin.... note that by also doing this you would open up the opportunity for your Elite League teams to play other Tier 1 teams outside of your league during the before season as well, so games against the Mission etc... could become common place, times change you need to change with them if you are to preserve the nugget you love so much up there, that being the HS State Hockey tourney......

Can't anyone register as a Tier 1 team? I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure MN Hockey can't forbid that. I'm not sure how they could have any say in it.

As far as the MN State High School Hockey Tourney, it doesn't need "preserving" from anything. It's the Gold Standard for Hockey if you live in MN. There isn't a kid in MN who wouldn't rather play in the State Tourney than a Tier 1 National tourney. I doubt they would ever consider moving it so kids could play Tier 1. A few kids who are good enough to leave High School and play Juniors full time are going to do that, they always have. They will do it to improve their game and hopefully make the next level. I don't think it has anything to do with not being able to play Tier 1. I've never heard anyone in MN say that they wish Tier 1 was more readily available.

[JSR]

Well, yes and no. 25 games over 3 months isn't all that different from what you'd be playing in a junior league, or even in the NCAA. Most HS players with post-HS aspirations are playing Elite League (or at least Elite D) before the season; add those in, and you're over 50 games. Some players then go play in the USHL after the HS season; add that, and there are a number of MN HS players who are playing in 60+ hockey games every winter. Granted, a handful of games may not be all that competitive, but the difference between that and the USHL or NAHL (in terms of games played) is negligible.

The issue, of course, is the way the Elite League is run, and the lack of an equivalent after the HS season.

Honestly the "post season" issue seems like a relatively easy solve if MN Hockey would just allow the Elite League teams to register as Tier 1 teams and compete in the post season state, distict, and national championships. Right now Schattuck walk into nationals every year, but just think if they had to play any of the Elite League teams in a state and/or district tourney just to get to nationals.... And you don't need to creat a "super team" the teams the league has as is are compaetitive enough to compete at the national Tier 1 level. Look at Team Wisconsin, they compete in your Elite League before season but compete in our Tier 1 state tourney in the post season and if they win that they go on to Central Districts and then possibly to nationals.... to me it's a great win-win scenario for those kids.... the one "hurdle" is probably needing to move the MN High School hockey tourney up a week to accomodate that... and I am not really sure why that is such a "hurdle", would it really be that big of a deal, we do it in WI..... just sayin.... note that by also doing this you would open up the opportunity for your Elite League teams to play other Tier 1 teams outside of your league during the before season as well, so games against the Mission etc... could become common place, times change you need to change with them if you are to preserve the nugget you love so much up there, that being the HS State Hockey tourney......

Can't anyone register as a Tier 1 team? I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure MN Hockey can't forbid that. I'm not sure how they could have any say in it.

As far as the MN State High School Hockey Tourney, it doesn't need "preserving" from anything. It's the Gold Standard for Hockey if you live in MN. There isn't a kid in MN who wouldn't rather play in the State Tourney than a Tier 1 National tourney. I doubt they would ever consider moving it so kids could play Tier 1. A few kids who are good enough to leave High School and play Juniors full time are going to do that, they always have. They will do it to improve their game and hopefully make the next level. I don't think it has anything to do with not being able to play Tier 1. I've never heard anyone in MN say that they wish Tier 1 was more readily available.

No, you can't 'just" register for Tier 1. You have to be sanctioned by your local/state USA Hockey affiliate, your case MN Hockey.... so yes they have a HUGE say it in, in fact they have the final say in it....

Your second paragraph makes you sound, well let's just say head in the sand comes to mind.... change comes, and it often comes in waves... if you don't think EVERYTHING needs to be cared for and preserved if it is going to last then you are mistaken.... the MN HS tourney is great, it's fantastic, but one (not the only) but ONE of many reason's it is great is because most of the best players stay in high school, to try and keep those players in high school they created the Elite League, it's done a decent job but it's clear that it's becoming not quite enough anymore, if you want to continue to keep the majority of players it's ok to "tweek" things once in a while, like adding an after season opportunity, again why such staunch opposition to moving the state tourney up one week, seriously what's the big deal, why would it "lessen" that great tourney by having it played one weekend earlier??? Seriously I haven't seen any logical or objective reasoning... froggy offers hyperbole but no sound reasoning....

[observer]

I've never heard anyone in MN say that they wish Tier 1 was more readily available.

Whoa. You better visit the youth forum. Squirt parents are nutty.

why such staunch opposition to moving the state tourney up one week

Not that it can't be overcome but the girls tourney is the week before. Also, conference and section playdowns, boys and girls, occupy a lot of available ice. Youth hockey season is very busy about that time too.

[Froggy Richards]

Honestly the "post season" issue seems like a relatively easy solve if MN Hockey would just allow the Elite League teams to register as Tier 1 teams and compete in the post season state, distict, and national championships. Right now Schattuck walk into nationals every year, but just think if they had to play any of the Elite League teams in a state and/or district tourney just to get to nationals.... And you don't need to creat a "super team" the teams the league has as is are compaetitive enough to compete at the national Tier 1 level. Look at Team Wisconsin, they compete in your Elite League before season but compete in our Tier 1 state tourney in the post season and if they win that they go on to Central Districts and then possibly to nationals.... to me it's a great win-win scenario for those kids.... the one "hurdle" is probably needing to move the MN High School hockey tourney up a week to accomodate that... and I am not really sure why that is such a "hurdle", would it really be that big of a deal, we do it in WI..... just sayin.... note that by also doing this you would open up the opportunity for your Elite League teams to play other Tier 1 teams outside of your league during the before season as well, so games against the Mission etc... could become common place, times change you need to change with them if you are to preserve the nugget you love so much up there, that being the HS State Hockey tourney......

Can't anyone register as a Tier 1 team? I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure MN Hockey can't forbid that. I'm not sure how they could have any say in it.

As far as the MN State High School Hockey Tourney, it doesn't need "preserving" from anything. It's the Gold Standard for Hockey if you live in MN. There isn't a kid in MN who wouldn't rather play in the State Tourney than a Tier 1 National tourney. I doubt they would ever consider moving it so kids could play Tier 1. A few kids who are good enough to leave High School and play Juniors full time are going to do that, they always have. They will do it to improve their game and hopefully make the next level. I don't think it has anything to do with not being able to play Tier 1. I've never heard anyone in MN say that they wish Tier 1 was more readily available.

No, you can't 'just" register for Tier 1. You have to be sanctioned by your local/state USA Hockey affiliate, your case MN Hockey.... so yes they have a HUGE say it in, in fact they have the final say in it....

Your second paragraph makes you sound, well let's just say head in the sand comes to mind.... change comes, and it often comes in waves... if you don't think EVERYTHING needs to be cared for and preserved if it is going to last then you are mistaken.... the MN HS tourney is great, it's fantastic, but one (not the only) but ONE of many reason's it is great is because most of the best players stay in high school, to try and keep those players in high school they created the Elite League, it's done a decent job but it's clear that it's becoming not quite enough anymore, if you want to continue to keep the majority of players it's ok to "tweek" things once in a while, like adding an after season opportunity, again why such staunch opposition to moving the state tourney up one week, seriously what's the big deal, why would it "lessen" that great tourney by having it played one weekend earlier??? Seriously I haven't seen any logical or objective reasoning... froggy offers hyperbole but no sound reasoning....

Nobody wants to shorten the High School season by moving the tournament up a week. And you can't just add a week at the beginning because Football already butts up against it, especially for teams that make the Prep Bowl. Those kids are already 3 weeks behind on Hockey. And you have all of the other Winter High School Sports that have their tournaments established on a certain weekend, plus Youth Hockey events. You would have to move all of those too. Definitely not worth it for Tier 1. Keep it how it is and start an after season league right here in MN afterwards. Pretty simple. You guys are doing a great job over in Wisconsin, but we think we know a thing or two about hockey over here in the State of Hockey too.

[DrGaf]

I've never heard anyone in MN say that they wish Tier 1 was more readily available.

Whoa. You better visit the youth forum. Squirt parents are nutty.

Those were the days.

[JSR]

Can't anyone register as a Tier 1 team? I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure MN Hockey can't forbid that. I'm not sure how they could have any say in it.

As far as the MN State High School Hockey Tourney, it doesn't need "preserving" from anything. It's the Gold Standard for Hockey if you live in MN. There isn't a kid in MN who wouldn't rather play in the State Tourney than a Tier 1 National tourney. I doubt they would ever consider moving it so kids could play Tier 1. A few kids who are good enough to leave High School and play Juniors full time are going to do that, they always have. They will do it to improve their game and hopefully make the next level. I don't think it has anything to do with not being able to play Tier 1. I've never heard anyone in MN say that they wish Tier 1 was more readily available.

No, you can't 'just" register for Tier 1. You have to be sanctioned by your local/state USA Hockey affiliate, your case MN Hockey.... so yes they have a HUGE say it in, in fact they have the final say in it....

Your second paragraph makes you sound, well let's just say head in the sand comes to mind.... change comes, and it often comes in waves... if you don't think EVERYTHING needs to be cared for and preserved if it is going to last then you are mistaken.... the MN HS tourney is great, it's fantastic, but one (not the only) but ONE of many reason's it is great is because most of the best players stay in high school, to try and keep those players in high school they created the Elite League, it's done a decent job but it's clear that it's becoming not quite enough anymore, if you want to continue to keep the majority of players it's ok to "tweek" things once in a while, like adding an after season opportunity, again why such staunch opposition to moving the state tourney up one week, seriously what's the big deal, why would it "lessen" that great tourney by having it played one weekend earlier??? Seriously I haven't seen any logical or objective reasoning... froggy offers hyperbole but no sound reasoning....

Nobody wants to shorten the High School season by moving the tournament up a week. And you can't just add a week at the beginning because Football already butts up against it, especially for teams that make the Prep Bowl. Those kids are already 3 weeks behind on Hockey. And you have all of the other Winter High School Sports that have their tournaments established on a certain weekend, plus Youth Hockey events. You would have to move all of those too. Definitely not worth it for Tier 1. Keep it how it is and start an after season league right here in MN afterwards. Pretty simple. You guys are doing a great job over in Wisconsin, but we think we know a thing or two about hockey over here in the State of Hockey too.

Ahh yes, the quintessential "we are MN so we know everything about hockey and no one else knows anything" answer.... gotchya

For the record though, WI has roughly the same size population, we have all the same winter sports and public high school issues you have and our hockey season is by and large the same as MN as far as number of games and length of season for high school and we have all the other winter sports and regional playdowns blah blah blah, I merely used WI as an example because the reality is it CAN be done, it's just a matter of want.............