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The answer is this is the worst IRC hockey has ever been. The holiday tournaments underscore how far IRC hockey has fallen. The results for each team: Grand Rapids 3-0, Eveleth 1-2, Virginia 1-2, Hibbing 1-2, Greenway 0-2-1, Ely 0-3, and IFalls 0-3. Although Rapids went 3-0, they are far from competitive with the quality metro teams. They were totally dominated by Edina and EP and even Brainerd outshot them 40-20. Their win over Elk River is an exception not the rule. I've seen Rapids several times and can't see them winning 3 games in the Section 7AA playoff. They could beat anybody because of Hunter Shepherd, but I wouldn't be surprised if they lost the first game either. In 7A, a Hermantown/Duluth Marshall final seems inevitable. Upsets can happen, but it will be tough for any Range team to make the Section 7A final.

greenway1969 wrote:The answer is this is the worst IRC hockey has ever been. The holiday tournaments underscore how far IRC hockey has fallen. The results for each team: Grand Rapids 3-0, Eveleth 1-2, Virginia 1-2, Hibbing 1-2, Greenway 0-2-1, Ely 0-3, and IFalls 0-3. Although Rapids went 3-0, they are far from competitive with the quality metro teams. They were totally dominated by Edina and EP and even Brainerd outshot them 40-20. Their win over Elk River is an exception not the rule. I've seen Rapids several times and can't see them winning 3 games in the Section 7AA playoff. They could beat anybody because of Hunter Shepherd, but I wouldn't be surprised if they lost the first game either. In 7A, a Hermantown/Duluth Marshall final seems inevitable. Upsets can happen, but it will be tough for any Range team to make the Section 7A final.

This isn't breaking news.

The metro has the numbers and the resources.

At one time the IRC , section 8 had the advantage with outdoor ice, coaching, blue collar kids. St Paul and parts of Minneapolis were close. Edina came along as the prelude to it being a 'money game'. Enjoy the years when you can compete. The big suburbans and the privates are the power. At single A the little towns have a shot more often.

Go Luverne, Mankatp West; give us the Cinderella story.

elliott70 wrote:

greenway1969 wrote:The answer is this is the worst IRC hockey has ever been. The holiday tournaments underscore how far IRC hockey has fallen. The results for each team: Grand Rapids 3-0, Eveleth 1-2, Virginia 1-2, Hibbing 1-2, Greenway 0-2-1, Ely 0-3, and IFalls 0-3. Although Rapids went 3-0, they are far from competitive with the quality metro teams. They were totally dominated by Edina and EP and even Brainerd outshot them 40-20. Their win over Elk River is an exception not the rule. I've seen Rapids several times and can't see them winning 3 games in the Section 7AA playoff. They could beat anybody because of Hunter Shepherd, but I wouldn't be surprised if they lost the first game either. In 7A, a Hermantown/Duluth Marshall final seems inevitable. Upsets can happen, but it will be tough for any Range team to make the Section 7A final.

This isn't breaking news.

The metro has the numbers and the resources.

At one time the IRC , section 8 had the advantage with outdoor ice, coaching, blue collar kids. St Paul and parts of Minneapolis were close. Edina came along as the prelude to it being a 'money game'. Enjoy the years when you can compete. The big suburbans and the privates are the power. At single A the little towns have a shot more often.

Go Luverne, Mankatp West; give us the Cinderella story.

Remarks are right on the mark.

$, and "things" associated with it, good and bad, is the ruler of hockey now, (while being not new news actually) and the differences between metro and outstate in that, and numbers, will only continue to grow.

New Ulm and New Prague could wear that glass slipper also.

I understand the IRC teams not being competetive with the Metro, but they are not competetive at the A level either. Their enrollment is comparable to Warroad, EGF, Hermantown, and other A schools. The reasons are not just a numbers and money issue.

urban iceman wrote:New Ulm and New Prague could wear that glass slipper also.

If New Ulm makes it they won't have a shot. Luverne will be the only team out of 3A that has a shot at winning any games at the X. New Prague on the other hand should give Mankato West a run for their money.

greenway1969 wrote:The answer is this is the worst IRC hockey has ever been. The holiday tournaments underscore how far IRC hockey has fallen. The results for each team: Grand Rapids 3-0, Eveleth 1-2, Virginia 1-2, Hibbing 1-2, Greenway 0-2-1, Ely 0-3, and IFalls 0-3. Although Rapids went 3-0, they are far from competitive with the quality metro teams. They were totally dominated by Edina and EP and even Brainerd outshot them 40-20. Their win over Elk River is an exception not the rule. I've seen Rapids several times and can't see them winning 3 games in the Section 7AA playoff. They could beat anybody because of Hunter Shepherd, but I wouldn't be surprised if they lost the first game either. In 7A, a Hermantown/Duluth Marshall final seems inevitable. Upsets can happen, but it will be tough for any Range team to make the Section 7A final.

Although I don't think GR is as good as East or ER this year, I will defenitley say they are capable of winning three games in section 7AA. That section is any of the top 3s to take.

Hockey is a money thing now (investment). Parents up north no longer committed to the squirt travel let alone the additional 4 years of pee wee and bantam travel. Parents of young ones just don't care anymore. Easier to buy the kid a $300.00 nintendo he can use for the 18 years he is "at home", as opposed to the endless travel placed upon them to drive all over the state to compete 5 months of the year. For today's parents that is a turn off which will continue to grow in rural areas. If interested in sports, easier and less hassle to play basketball and wrestle and CHEAPER too.

Young parents are too selfish to commit to the grind of hockey. To them it is a waste of time.

greenway1969 wrote:I understand the IRC teams not being competetive with the Metro, but they are not competetive at the A level either. Their enrollment is comparable to Warroad, EGF, Hermantown, and other A schools. The reasons are not just a numbers and money issue.

That's a good question.
Economics could be it.
EGF, Hermantown, TRF economy is good. Warroad supports hokey totally and are willing to spend on it.
Iron Range has been depressed for a long time. Intl Falls school population is way, way down.

Is there a hockey problem?

Hard to say from far away.

Northwoods oldtimer is right on the money with his analysis. It's not so much of an enrollment issue and less of a money issue then most people try to make it. The Greenway program has a standard policy of not turning anyone away because they might not have the financial resources. What they do expect is that all parents commit a number of hours of volunteer work through the association. The biggest contributor to the downfall of Range hockey is the lack of parenting. (Yes, there are lots of great parents, but not the numbers that there used to be.)

greenway1969 wrote:I understand the IRC teams not being competetive with the Metro, but they are not competetive at the A level either. Their enrollment is comparable to Warroad, EGF, Hermantown, and other A schools. The reasons are not just a numbers and money issue.

The economies of the other towns listed are much more stable, etc. than the iron range towns.

$ is an issue in the range.

greenway1969 wrote:Northwoods oldtimer is right on the money with his analysis. It's not so much of an enrollment issue and less of a money issue then most people try to make it. The Greenway program has a standard policy of not turning anyone away because they might not have the financial resources. What they do expect is that all parents commit a number of hours of volunteer work through the association. The biggest contributor to the downfall of Range hockey is the lack of parenting. (Yes, there are lots of great parents, but not the numbers that there used to be.)

Very true too.

northwoods oldtimer wrote:Hockey is a money thing now (investment). Parents up north no longer committed to the squirt travel let alone the additional 4 years of pee wee and bantam travel. Parents of young ones just don't care anymore. Easier to buy the kid a $300.00 nintendo he can use for the 18 years he is "at home", as opposed to the endless travel placed upon them to drive all over the state to compete 5 months of the year. For today's parents that is a turn off which will continue to grow in rural areas. If interested in sports, easier and less hassle to play basketball and wrestle and CHEAPER too.

Young parents are too selfish to commit to the grind of hockey. To them it is a waste of time.

That is an extreme generalization oldtimer! And not having time or money to commit to this sport, especially in an area where association play involves so much travel and off season opportunities are few and far between... Well I wouldn't call that "selfish."

I think the legacies and luster of hockey has worn off in many of these traditionally strong hinterland towns. And teams that have a winning history of course are less committed if the time and $ the families do invest doesn't equal wins.

IMHO goes back to the youth hockey programs. And getting and keeping the fun in the game, win or lose. Shiny new arenas don't make kids any better than hours rink ratting outside. Is your outdoor ice being sacrificed for expensive indoor ice time?

Lots of maybe unsolveable issues up north. Same issues regardless of geography all over. Sad to watch it unravel. For families living paycheck to paycheck trying to get dinner on the table every night - well saying they are "selfish" to not be ABLE to or WANT to make the sacrifices that come with hockey... Not fair.

And to those of us who have put our hearts, souls, retirement $, and free time into this game - would you do it again??? I say a resounding YES. They don't know what they're missing!!!

Slammer wrote:

greenway1969 wrote:The answer is this is the worst IRC hockey has ever been. The holiday tournaments underscore how far IRC hockey has fallen. The results for each team: Grand Rapids 3-0, Eveleth 1-2, Virginia 1-2, Hibbing 1-2, Greenway 0-2-1, Ely 0-3, and IFalls 0-3. Although Rapids went 3-0, they are far from competitive with the quality metro teams. They were totally dominated by Edina and EP and even Brainerd outshot them 40-20. Their win over Elk River is an exception not the rule. I've seen Rapids several times and can't see them winning 3 games in the Section 7AA playoff. They could beat anybody because of Hunter Shepherd, but I wouldn't be surprised if they lost the first game either. In 7A, a Hermantown/Duluth Marshall final seems inevitable. Upsets can happen, but it will be tough for any Range team to make the Section 7A final.

Although I don't think GR is as good as East or ER this year, I will defenitley say they are capable of winning three games in section 7AA. That section is any of the top 3s to take.

Seems like a really bad take given Grand Rapids beat Elk River and it wasn't like Shep had to make 40+ saves to do it. Both Elk River and Grand Rapids played an even game against each other, and both were equally overmatched by Edina and Eden Prairie. To say after GR beat Elk River, which is the third time in a row, is an inferior team to them only exposes your arrogance.

TheHockeyDJ wrote:Seems like a really bad take given Grand Rapids beat Elk River and it wasn't like Shep had to make 40+ saves to do it.

Clearly Grand Rapids is the exception to the rule on the Range. All of the other Range towns that were once very strong are clearly a shadow of what they once were...Eveleth, Virginia, Hibbing and Coleraine to name four. For them the No. 1 reason for their decline is directly tied to the decline of mining, and the corresponding loss of good-paying jobs. The population has aged, and the majority of those of child-bearing age simply cannot afford the cost of equipment, ice time, travel, camps, AAA teams and Elite Leagues. Back in the day when hockey was a three month sport and the cost of a top of the line Northland Pro stick was $5, it was a whole different deal.

MNHockeyFan wrote:Clearly Grand Rapids is the exception to the rule on the Range. All of the other Range towns that were once very strong are clearly a shadow of what they once were...Eveleth, Virginia, Hibbing and Coleraine to name four. For them the No. 1 reason for their decline is directly tied to the decline of mining, and the corresponding loss of good-paying jobs. The population has aged, and the majority of those of child-bearing age simply cannot afford the cost of equipment, ice time, travel, camps, AAA teams and Elite Leagues. Back in the day when hockey was a three month sport and the cost of a top of the line Northland Pro stick was $5, it was a whole different deal.

This. Grand Rapids may be in the IRC, but it's not an Iron Range town, per se...its economy is more diverse, and the place has actually grown in recent years. Hence the hockey program's relatively strong fundamentals. However many shots they're giving up to Edina and Eden Prairie, they are also on the younger side this year, and the program is in relatively good shape from high school down through the youth ranks.

With the mining towns, different story. You can also throw in a lot of social ills that tend to emerge when places fall on hard times, and the general plight of working class America--the decline of two-parent families being the most important trend there.

Sociology aside, it's worth taking a look at some of these programs, though:

Eveleth--we talk about their glory days in the 50s for a reason: you have to go that far back to find great Eveleth teams. They've had the occasional surge since, including a couple of tourneys in the 90s, but it's been, what, 10-15 years since they've been relevant? Very small town, very small school.
Virginia--has put out some occasional good players and teams, but let's be honest here; this program has never been a powerhouse. They made their first State Tourney in 2005. They've had the occasional surge, and they may have continued occasional surges, but it's not like they've gone off some cliff from prior greatness.
International Falls--this is the most obvious drop-off in recent years. A lot of that can probably be tied directly to the plight of the paper mill. It's not a mining town, so theoretically it could have handled the changing hockey landscape better than the Ranger proper (just like Roseau, Warroad, and Rapids have), but their economy has fallen off for other reasons.
Greenway--went off a cliff after the Guyer/Sertich years, and while it's a long road back, my impression is that they're in somewhat better shape than they were a few years back? No matter what, they've got to be one of the smallest schools in Class A.
Hibbing--yes, they're down some right now, but they were in the state semis just three years ago, and made something like 10 straight section finals. I believe they have a very good bantam team. I don't know what their long-term outlook is, but at this point I'd say this current dip is the exception, not the new norm. They're still one of the better Class A programs, year in and year out.

Not many small-town outstate teams can be consistently good. EGF is relatively new to the scene, and even TRF and Warroad have had some down years recently. Hermantown is the exception, but as a growing exurban community right next to a decent-size city with a D-I hockey program, they have a lot of advantages that most Class A teams don't. Unfortunately for the range teams, they're in a section with Hermantown, plus Duluth Marshall.

I wouldn't completely discount tradition, either. A number of these programs probably wouldn't be alive today without it. Get a few more jobs into these towns (easier said than done), and you might just see a comeback.

karl(east) wrote:This. Grand Rapids may be in the IRC, but it's not an Iron Range town, per se...its economy is more diverse, and the place has actually grown in recent years. Hence the hockey program's relatively strong fundamentals. However many shots they're giving up to Edina and Eden Prairie, they are also on the younger side this year, and the program is in relatively good shape from high school down through the youth ranks.

With the mining towns, different story. You can also throw in a lot of social ills that tend to emerge when places fall on hard times, and the general plight of working class America--the decline of two-parent families being the most important trend there.

Sociology aside, it's worth taking a look at some of these programs, though:

Eveleth--we talk about their glory days in the 50s for a reason: you have to go that far back to find great Eveleth teams. They've had the occasional surge since, including a couple of tourneys in the 90s, but it's been, what, 10-15 years since they've been relevant? Very small town, very small school.
Virginia--has put out some occasional good players and teams, but let's be honest here; this program has never been a powerhouse. They made their first State Tourney in 2005. They've had the occasional surge, and they may have continued occasional surges, but it's not like they've gone off some cliff from prior greatness.
International Falls--this is the most obvious drop-off in recent years. A lot of that can probably be tied directly to the plight of the paper mill. It's not a mining town, so theoretically it could have handled the changing hockey landscape better than the Ranger proper (just like Roseau, Warroad, and Rapids have), but their economy has fallen off for other reasons.
Greenway--went off a cliff after the Guyer/Sertich years, and while it's a long road back, my impression is that they're in somewhat better shape than they were a few years back? No matter what, they've got to be one of the smallest schools in Class A.
Hibbing--yes, they're down some right now, but they were in the state semis just three years ago, and made something like 10 straight section finals. I believe they have a very good bantam team. I don't know what their long-term outlook is, but at this point I'd say this current dip is the exception, not the new norm. They're still one of the better Class A programs, year in and year out.

Not many small-town outstate teams can be consistently good. EGF is relatively new to the scene, and even TRF and Warroad have had some down years recently. Hermantown is the exception, but as a growing exurban community right next to a decent-size city with a D-I hockey program, they have a lot of advantages that most Class A teams don't. Unfortunately for the range teams, they're in a section with Hermantown, plus Duluth Marshall.

I wouldn't completely discount tradition, either. A number of these programs probably wouldn't be alive today without it. Get a few more jobs into these towns (easier said than done), and you might just see a comeback.

I can give you a better take of what is happening at the youth level in most of these towns. To give you and idea of numbers, here are the populations they draw from and how many teams the IRC's youth associations are fielding this year from Varsity down to Mites (Yes, I know the Varsity/JV is not really part of the association.):

Hibbing/Chisholm: (population 21,337) 12 Teams; Varsity, JV, Bantam AA, Bantam B, Peewee AA, Peewee B, 3 Squirt B, 3 Mite

Grand Rapids: (population 10,869) 18 Teams; Varsity, JV, Junior Gold, Bantam AA, Bantam B, Bantam B2, Peewee AA, Peewee B, Peewee B2, Squirt A, 3 Squirt B, 5 Mite

Eveleth-Gilbert/Mesabi East: (population 10,185) 14 Teams; Varsity, JV, Bantam A, Bantam B, Peewee A, 2 Peewee B, 2 Squirt B(Eveleth) 1 Squirt B(Mesabi East), 2 Mite (Eveleth), 2 Mite (Mesabi East)

Virginia: (population 8,645) 12 Teams; Varsity, JV, Bantam A, Peewee A, 2 Peewee B, 3 Squirt B, 3 Mite

International Falls: (population 6,424) 11 Teams; Varsity, JV, Bantam A, Bantam B, Peewee A, Peewee B, 2 Squirt B, 3 Mites

Greenway: (population 4,472) 10 Teams; Varsity, JV, Bantam A, Bantam B, Peewee A, Peewee B, 2 Squirt B, 2 Mite

Now take that in comparison with say Osseo-Maple Grove, who has more than 50 teams and more teams at the Mite level as all of the Range associations have in their entire program... Its not hard to see how the metro teams have taken over. Its not a hockey problem... its numbers. Those associations have grown and the Range ones have shrunk. If you were to combine all of the Range associations, you would have comparable numbers to the large metro programs... and probably a very deep powerhouse hockey team every year, but still with a smaller population base than the metro cities and even Duluth for that matter, which when you think about it is pretty impressive. What is also impressive is that except for Greenway, all of these associations have access to two or three sheets of indoor ice to use.

As far as where these teams are headed, competitiveness varies from level to level, but at the Bantam level, Hibbing, Grand Rapids and Greenway are the better teams that appear to be able to compete with anybody on any given day.

Its Virginia and Grand Rapids in Peewees. The rest are far behind.

And at squirts (for what its worth), Its Virginia, Grand Rapids, Eveleth-Gilbert, and International Falls. Virginia and Grand Rapids seem to be deeper with talent though.

While this is purely speculative due to the nature of how things change as players go up the ladder, it seems as if Hibbing/Chisholm drops off the radar after Bantams as does Greenway and you can see a flash perhaps coming for Eveleth-Gilbert/Mesabi East and International Falls - but there's a long way to go for that to develop entirely. What looks for sure is that Virginia will be back and Grand Rapids will remain strong. When you look at it pound for pound, Hibbing's numbers are pretty weak in comparison with the rest of the Range. Eveleth has yet to prove they have remedied the issues within their program that retains and develops quality players all the way up... They have the most kids in their program next to Grand Rapids when you factor in Mesabi East, but continue to struggle at the varsity level. Greenway has the obvious disadvantage with the smallest pool to pick from and being geographically spread out over a handful of small towns.

There is nothing in sight, however that points to this being a dominant conference again in the future. As usual it will be two, maybe three quality teams year after year. With any luck, there might be four in about 7 years, but that will likely be a one-year deal if it does play out.

greenway1969 wrote:I understand the IRC teams not being competetive with the Metro, but they are not competetive at the A level either. Their enrollment is comparable to Warroad, EGF, Hermantown, and other A schools. The reasons are not just a numbers and money issue.

I totally agree! I may be over competative but believe somewhere the "just make sure everyone has fun" waaay overshadowed the importance of winning. Roseau is the best example of that importance, to be competative year in and year out in AA takes total comittment. Warroad has that also, but not sure where they'd be without their recruits. Its way easier to keep kids and a community interested if your a winner.

PuckRanger wrote:
I can give you a better take of what is happening at the youth level in most of these towns. To give you and idea of numbers, here are the populations they draw from and how many teams the IRC's youth associations are fielding this year from Varsity down to Mites (Yes, I know the Varsity/JV is not really part of the association.):

Hibbing/Chisholm: (population 21,337) 12 Teams; Varsity, JV, Bantam AA, Bantam B, Peewee AA, Peewee B, 3 Squirt B, 3 Mite

Grand Rapids: (population 10,869) 18 Teams; Varsity, JV, Junior Gold, Bantam AA, Bantam B, Bantam B2, Peewee AA, Peewee B, Peewee B2, Squirt A, 3 Squirt B, 5 Mite

Eveleth-Gilbert/Mesabi East: (population 10,185) 14 Teams; Varsity, JV, Bantam A, Bantam B, Peewee A, 2 Peewee B, 2 Squirt B(Eveleth) 1 Squirt B(Mesabi East), 2 Mite (Eveleth), 2 Mite (Mesabi East)

Virginia: (population 8,645) 12 Teams; Varsity, JV, Bantam A, Peewee A, 2 Peewee B, 3 Squirt B, 3 Mite

International Falls: (population 6,424) 11 Teams; Varsity, JV, Bantam A, Bantam B, Peewee A, Peewee B, 2 Squirt B, 3 Mites

Greenway: (population 4,472) 10 Teams; Varsity, JV, Bantam A, Bantam B, Peewee A, Peewee B, 2 Squirt B, 2 Mite

Now take that in comparison with say Osseo-Maple Grove, who has more than 50 teams and more teams at the Mite level as all of the Range associations have in their entire program... Its not hard to see how the metro teams have taken over. Its not a hockey problem... its numbers. Those associations have grown and the Range ones have shrunk. If you were to combine all of the Range associations, you would have comparable numbers to the large metro programs... and probably a very deep powerhouse hockey team every year, but still with a smaller population base than the metro cities and even Duluth for that matter, which when you think about it is pretty impressive. What is also impressive is that except for Greenway, all of these associations have access to two or three sheets of indoor ice to use.

As far as where these teams are headed, competitiveness varies from level to level, but at the Bantam level, Hibbing, Grand Rapids and Greenway are the better teams that appear to be able to compete with anybody on any given day.

Its Virginia and Grand Rapids in Peewees. The rest are far behind.

And at squirts (for what its worth), Its Virginia, Grand Rapids, Eveleth-Gilbert, and International Falls. Virginia and Grand Rapids seem to be deeper with talent though.

While this is purely speculative due to the nature of how things change as players go up the ladder, it seems as if Hibbing/Chisholm drops off the radar after Bantams as does Greenway and you can see a flash perhaps coming for Eveleth-Gilbert/Mesabi East and International Falls - but there's a long way to go for that to develop entirely. What looks for sure is that Virginia will be back and Grand Rapids will remain strong. When you look at it pound for pound, Hibbing's numbers are pretty weak in comparison with the rest of the Range. Eveleth has yet to prove they have remedied the issues within their program that retains and develops quality players all the way up... They have the most kids in their program next to Grand Rapids when you factor in Mesabi East, but continue to struggle at the varsity level. Greenway has the obvious disadvantage with the smallest pool to pick from and being geographically spread out over a handful of small towns.

There is nothing in sight, however that points to this being a dominant conference again in the future. As usual it will be two, maybe three quality teams year after year. With any luck, there might be four in about 7 years, but that will likely be a one-year deal if it does play out.

While I do agree with 99% of your takes. Puck Ranger, there is one statement that I must clarify a bit. (Because you and I are Virginia and Hibbing rubes, respectively, and it is fun to have some rivalry banter.)

I don't agree with your statement "When you look at it pound for pound, Hibbing's numbers are pretty weak in comparison with the rest of the Range." You paint Hibbing as some IRC metropolis that fails to produce hockey success commensurate with their size. Let's take a look at how this assertion is exaggerated to make Hibbing look bad while simultaneously making Virginia look good.

You used total population numbers to determine the size of the talent pool for each IRC program, but that really doesn't provide an accurate picture of what each program is really working with. (Not to mention that you conveniently neglected to add the Mountain Iron-Buhl populations to the Virginia population, despite making sure you had all the other cooperative programs added up fully. If you add in MI-B, the VMIB population is 12,514, moving the Blue Devils up from "poor little " 4th to "IRC behemoth" 2nd on your list; a number significantly larger than powerhouse Grand Rapids.)

School enrollment is the number to look at. Here are the IRC enrollments:

1. Grand Rapids 941
2. Hibbing-Chisholm 764
3. Eveleth-Gilbert-Mesabi East-Cherry 588
4. Virginia-Mountain Iron-Buhl 533
5. Greenway-Nashwauk-Keewatin 368
6. International Falls 340

At first glance, it would appear Hibbing has a decided enrollment advantage over the teams below them, but one has to realize that Chisholm is 100% a basketball community and therefore contributes very little to the H-C hockey program. (When H-C made it to the state semis in 2011 the team had one Chisholm kid that got regular playing time.)
Given this, Hibbing's enrollment for hockey purposes is not much higher than the 597 that Hibbing by itself is.

So Hibbing's effective enrollment is perhaps 100 greater than VMIB, and I would say that the success of Hibbing and Virginia over the last decade mirrors that difference pretty closely. In other words, I think both communities are getting the same ratio of talent from their available kids.

Looking at enrollment numbers, I would say the Eveleth cooperative is the least effective pound for pound. They have an enrollment even larger than VMIB yet they usually are not remotely competitive with the top 5 teams in 7A. (I will refrain from making a joke referring to VMIB's 3-3 tie with E-G this season.)

I would also have to say that I-Falls is the most effective pound for pound. Before this lost season, I-Falls was right there with VMIB, H-C, Denfeld, and they always gave Marshall all they could handle. They were highly competitive despite having fewer kids than freaking Greenway! Too bad the bottom seems to have fallen out with the paper mill layoffs.

As for Hibbing, they continue to produce solid teams, and they were on track to be a much better team this season before academic/disciplinary/transfer issues took their 3 "Elite" level players off the team. Their Bantam AA team is ranked #10 by Youth Hockey Hub, so they should at least have a solid chance of taking down Hermantown or Marshall over the next few seasons, which is nice.

You are right, the younger levels don't look as bright for Hibbing as they do for VMIB and GR (obviously). But new Hibbing varsity coach Versich has said that he plans to "revamp the entire youth program", so hopefully he can spearhead a new commitment to bolstering the association. Hibbing is also the only non-GR IRC team to opt up and play AA at the youth levels, so a lack of success in youth years may not correlate to a lack of success once they get to high school.

I appreciate all your insight into IRC hockey, Puck Ranger, you know 1,000 times more than I do about it. But I can't resist chiming in when I see you take veiled shots at my Blue Jackets. I also like to take shots at your Blue Devils, and it's fun when you respond to my takes also.

Virginia and Hibbing appear to be very evenly matched teams this season. Virginia has better offense, Hibbing has better defense, and while Virginia's goaltending has been outstanding at times, I'd say Hibbing's has been more consistent. Should be a great couple games this season!

wayfncold wrote:

greenway1969 wrote:I understand the IRC teams not being competetive with the Metro, but they are not competetive at the A level either. Their enrollment is comparable to Warroad, EGF, Hermantown, and other A schools. The reasons are not just a numbers and money issue.

I totally agree! I may be over competative but believe somewhere the "just make sure everyone has fun" waaay overshadowed the importance of winning. Roseau is the best example of that importance, to be competative year in and year out in AA takes total comittment. Warroad has that also, but not sure where they'd be without their recruits. Its way easier to keep kids and a community interested if your a winner.

And on a completely unrelated note...

This is by far my new favorite user name on this forum.

rainier wrote:School enrollment is the number to look at. Here are the IRC enrollments:

1. Grand Rapids 941
2. Hibbing-Chisholm 764
3. Eveleth-Gilbert-Mesabi East-Cherry 588
4. Virginia-Mountain Iron-Buhl 533
5. Greenway-Nashwauk-Keewatin 368
6. International Falls 340

If you were to combine all of the schools on the range (Nos. 1-5) into one the total enrollment would still be a couple hundred shy of Wayzata's!:shock:

One advantage all these schools do have is very few of their kids choose to attend private schools, so with rare exceptions they're able to keep all the players they do develop.

Thanks for the perspectives, PuckRanger and rainier...that certainly gives a better idea of what's going on in each of the Range towns. I'm not a Ranger, of course, but I think it's a good thing for hockey in this state when Range teams are making the trek down to St. Paul. Preferably the ones in Class A, of course.

I was going to ask about the apparent lack of teams relative to population in Hibbing. Hopefully the new coach makes good on his promise.

On the Eveleth co-op and its apparent lack of bang for its buck: do all of those schools feeding in provide players, or are some of them just along for the ride and contributing the occasional player, as Chisholm does with Hibbing?

I knew I-Falls was small, but I didn't know it was that small. Hopefully they can withstand this latest hit to the paper mill...given the town's isolation, I'm not sure what options they'd have, otherwise.

MNHockeyFan wrote:One advantage all these schools do have is very few of their kids choose to attend private schools, so with rare exceptions they're able to keep all the players they do develop.

While mostly true, there has been a slow but steady trickle of players from the smaller NE MN communities over the years--most notably to the two Duluth powers, though some others have gotten in on the act, too. And in communities like these, the impact of losing one or two players can be much larger than it is in urban or suburban programs that have the numbers to absorb the losses.

TheHockeyDJ wrote:

Slammer wrote:

greenway1969 wrote:The answer is this is the worst IRC hockey has ever been. The holiday tournaments underscore how far IRC hockey has fallen. The results for each team: Grand Rapids 3-0, Eveleth 1-2, Virginia 1-2, Hibbing 1-2, Greenway 0-2-1, Ely 0-3, and IFalls 0-3. Although Rapids went 3-0, they are far from competitive with the quality metro teams. They were totally dominated by Edina and EP and even Brainerd outshot them 40-20. Their win over Elk River is an exception not the rule. I've seen Rapids several times and can't see them winning 3 games in the Section 7AA playoff. They could beat anybody because of Hunter Shepherd, but I wouldn't be surprised if they lost the first game either. In 7A, a Hermantown/Duluth Marshall final seems inevitable. Upsets can happen, but it will be tough for any Range team to make the Section 7A final.

Although I don't think GR is as good as East or ER this year, I will defenitley say they are capable of winning three games in section 7AA. That section is any of the top 3s to take.

Seems like a really bad take given Grand Rapids beat Elk River and it wasn't like Shep had to make 40+ saves to do it. Both Elk River and Grand Rapids played an even game against each other, and both were equally overmatched by Edina and Eden Prairie. To say after GR beat Elk River, which is the third time in a row, is an inferior team to them only exposes your arrogance.

Interesting reply, I was defending your team but apparently that's not enough.....

Just because a team beats another team, doesn't mean they are automatically better, especially in a tourney where they play a game every night.

I was just saying overall I think ER and DE are more talented than GR this year. I can still definitely see GR at the X, I was just stating my opinion, it isn't a fact.

karl(east) wrote:While mostly true, there has been a slow but steady trickle of players from the smaller NE MN communities over the years--most notably to the two Duluth powers...

Curious, can you put some numbers on what you mean by "a slow but steady trickle"? And are these situations where the parents move too, possibly for employment reasons, or is it just so their kids can attend a different school, whether it be East or Marshall? I would guess it's too long a distance for the boys to commute back and forth every day.

Intl Falls class size is about 25% of what it was when I was in high school.




Please, no comments about dinosaurs.