HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

Thoughts?

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2014/1/6/52 ... enway-2014

dumb

DrGaf wrote:dumb

Not going to work. It appears it is only a couple feet away, and usually players are not looking down at their feet when skating.

Not going to work if the players themselves don't notice it, as several were quoted as saying in the article.

After reading through the article, my first impressions were confirmed. Players aren't even going to notice the line. These injuries aren't caused by players not knowing how close to the boards they are... In fact, most know exactly how far away as they approach them. Noble idea, but ultimately serves no realistic purpose.

The concept behind the line perplexes me. Do they really think that college hockey players don't know where they are on the ice? After playing hockey your whole life you know where you are. This seems very weird to me.

I believe it is this man's vision

http://justcureparalysis.org/look-up-line/

A lack of rules, etc., relating to the perceived need of this, isn't the problem.

A lack of enforcement of said already existing rules is.

Hockey, especially the upper levels, more than any other sport, leaves to much to the discretion of the official, when a rule says otherwise.

The "put the whistle in the pocket" late in a game and/or during playoffs is a prime example, and a silly one to boot.

For some reason, hockey is the only sport that feels the need for such "
action" by an official.

Are they going to add look up lines around the net? Lots of injuries there too and maybe these D1 players aren't familiar with exactly where the posts are.

puckbreath wrote:A lack of rules, etc., relating to the perceived need of this, isn't the problem.

A lack of enforcement of said already existing rules is.

Hockey, especially the upper levels, more than any other sport, leaves to much to the discretion of the official, when a rule says otherwise.

The "put the whistle in the pocket" late in a game and/or during playoffs is a prime example, and a silly one to boot.

For some reason, hockey is the only sport that feels the need for such "
action" by an official.

I agree that putting the whistle away at the end of the games and OT is dumb but that's the way it is. I remember when the NHL came back after the 05 lockout they started enforcing the rules this way but it seems the last few years even they have reverted back to "swallowing the whistle" at the end of a close game.

I disagree that there is a lack of enforcement when it comes to checking from behind or boarding. Maybe with boarding but I think, or at least one would hope, that if a player is checked from behind with 0:20 left in a 4-4 game it would still be called but who knows.

Penalties should be called the same 20 seconds into the game as 20 seconds remaining in a game... that will never happen though in youth or high school. Maybe youth but certainly not HS.

StanleyCup55 wrote:

puckbreath wrote:A lack of rules, etc., relating to the perceived need of this, isn't the problem.

A lack of enforcement of said already existing rules is.

Hockey, especially the upper levels, more than any other sport, leaves to much to the discretion of the official, when a rule says otherwise.

The "put the whistle in the pocket" late in a game and/or during playoffs is a prime example, and a silly one to boot.

For some reason, hockey is the only sport that feels the need for such "
action" by an official.

I agree that putting the whistle away at the end of the games and OT is dumb but that's the way it is. I remember when the NHL came back after the 05 lockout they started enforcing the rules this way but it seems the last few years even they have reverted back to "swallowing the whistle" at the end of a close game.

I disagree that there is a lack of enforcement when it comes to checking from behind or boarding. Maybe with boarding but I think, or at least one would hope, that if a player is checked from behind with 0:20 left in a 4-4 game it would still be called but who knows.

Penalties should be called the same 20 seconds into the game as 20 seconds remaining in a game... that will never happen though in youth or high school. Maybe youth but certainly not HS.

Yeah, of course, it's at all levels of hockey, not just youth/hs that this happens.

Regarding enforcement, have to disagree myself; numerous times I've seen hits from behind not called.

One of the main differences in hockey, is the (wrongly imo) variance allowed to the official:

"Ok, just saw a hit from behind, into the boards, should I:

- call anything at all ?
- if so, what should I call it ?
- and then, what type of penalty should there be ?

Hmmm. Let me think about this for a tv timeout or two."

Take football, i.e., call is made, here's the penalty, no ifs, ands, or buts.

thespellchecker wrote:Thoughts?

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2014/1/6/52 ... enway-2014

My favorite part of the article is where it notes that the look-up line didn't prevent a former Edina high school player from receiving a boarding major and game misconduct.

puckbreath wrote:Regarding enforcement, have to disagree myself; numerous times I've seen hits from behind not called.

C'mon man, let em' play! You want this to turn into girls hockey?

HShockeywatcher wrote:

puckbreath wrote:Regarding enforcement, have to disagree myself; numerous times I've seen hits from behind not called.

C'mon man, let em' play! You want this to turn into girls hockey?

No, just the *existing* rules enforced. Amazingly, the game can still be played !

Doesn't seem to much to ask.

I agree with those who say the rules need to be enforce consistently throughout the game, no swallowing whistles. If you are consistent and call things early in the game, every game, the players will start to get an idea of what they can and cannot do. Years ago when I was a basketball ref, I was told "Call it early, so you don't have to call it late." Meaning if the players know you're going to call it, they'll stop doing it.

Please pm me your contact info so you can ref the rest of our games this season!

hockeydad wrote:I agree with those who say the rules need to be enforce consistently throughout the game, no swallowing whistles. If you are consistent and call things early in the game, every game, the players will start to get an idea of what they can and cannot do. Years ago when I was a basketball ref, I was told "Call it early, so you don't have to call it late." Meaning if the players know you're going to call it, they'll stop doing it.

Exactly.

Even better, doing so actually requires *less* rules in the end.

puckbreath wrote:

HShockeywatcher wrote:

puckbreath wrote:Regarding enforcement, have to disagree myself; numerous times I've seen hits from behind not called.

C'mon man, let em' play! You want this to turn into girls hockey?

No, just the *existing* rules enforced. Amazingly, the game can still be played !

Doesn't seem to much to ask.

It's called sarcasm.
I'm on the side of the rules, not machismo.

Ultimately, imo, this comes down to one thing; regardless of what is said, those is positions to make change don't want it.
If coaches wanted it to be called the way it's written, it would be. Plain and simple.
But, on the whole, they don't and it isn't.

HShockeywatcher wrote:

puckbreath wrote:

HShockeywatcher wrote: C'mon man, let em' play! You want this to turn into girls hockey?

No, just the *existing* rules enforced. Amazingly, the game can still be played !

Doesn't seem to much to ask.

It's called sarcasm.
I'm on the side of the rules, not machismo.

Ultimately, imo, this comes down to one thing; regardless of what is said, those is positions to make change don't want it.
If coaches wanted it to be called the way it's written, it would be. Plain and simple.
But, on the whole, they don't and it isn't.

I believe they're not the only ones who could change it. I think fans, parents, etc. could just as easily change things, if not more easily.

Especially since they're the ones paying the bills, to a large degree.

But that obviously hasn't happened.

Yet.

Perhaps this is the precursor to not just a look up line, but a "no hit" zone... Just thinking out loud. Body checking will eventually go away, but concussions will still be in hockey, just look at woman's NCAA stats.

Yes please enlighten me as to how I as a parent can influence the refs decisions to keep my children safer. Maybe I can show up early and just before I go into the locker room to "psyche up" my kid and stop the coaches in the hallway to give them some advice and make sure my kids get the best/most minutes, Ill knock on the refs dressing room and give them some pointers, maybe even some jersey numbers to watch out for on our opponents team.

C'mon.

puckbreath wrote:

HShockeywatcher wrote:

puckbreath wrote: No, just the *existing* rules enforced. Amazingly, the game can still be played !

Doesn't seem to much to ask.

It's called sarcasm.
I'm on the side of the rules, not machismo.

Ultimately, imo, this comes down to one thing; regardless of what is said, those is positions to make change don't want it.
If coaches wanted it to be called the way it's written, it would be. Plain and simple.
But, on the whole, they don't and it isn't.

I believe they're not the only ones who could change it. I think fans, parents, etc. could just as easily change things, if not more easily.

Especially since they're the ones paying the bills, to a large degree.

But that obviously hasn't happened.

Yet.

I won't rant like usual, but I would say those others would have change indirectly, but coaches not only 'score' officials and have [some] control over who refs their games, but have control over who sees not only the ice, but the roster.

I can count more 1st/2nd periods this season that have had hitting after the whistle than not, for example. This wouldn't happen if coaches didn't put up with it.

I think you are more right in parents playing a role in the development of players and their attitudes, but not as much what happens in high school games.
Fans often want a rough game, which they can still have with illegal hits being called. Many fans would argue a better game.
Just my two cents.

This discussion gets brought up every year. Ultimately, change won't happen until there is more emphasis put on safety from the top down.

Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:Yes please enlighten me as to how I as a parent can influence the refs decisions to keep my children safer. Maybe I can show up early and just before I go into the locker room to "psyche up" my kid and stop the coaches in the hallway to give them some advice and make sure my kids get the best/most minutes, Ill knock on the refs dressing room and give them some pointers, maybe even some jersey numbers to watch out for on our opponents team.

C'mon.

You aren't going to have a role in how they game is called, but how safely it's played. You and all the parents of the other kids on the ice. The parents of those breaking the rules play the main role. You have a good deal to do with your child and how they are raised/play the game, as do the other parents.

I can only control my own kids. I count on the officials to keep it safe and the coaches to teach and model that talent beats cheap every time. There are certain teams I wouldn't even schedule if it was up to me.

But it's not. And while I hope and pray the example of JJ#13, stop signs on jerseys, look up lines, rule changes... etc. keep all of our kids safe, the reality is parents are still yelling "take him out," boys are still getting hit after the whistle, and I've seen players AND parents laughing about cheap shots and injuries.

At the end of the day, season, career, it's ultimately on me to keep my kids happy and healthy. Hopefully the sport that makes them happy won't jeopardize their health.

And if my son or daughter get too many concussions, I can probably get at least a couple million from MSHL or USA Hockey. (See also: recent NFL settlement.)

HShockeywatcher wrote:

puckbreath wrote:

HShockeywatcher wrote: It's called sarcasm.
I'm on the side of the rules, not machismo.

Ultimately, imo, this comes down to one thing; regardless of what is said, those is positions to make change don't want it.
If coaches wanted it to be called the way it's written, it would be. Plain and simple.
But, on the whole, they don't and it isn't.

I believe they're not the only ones who could change it. I think fans, parents, etc. could just as easily change things, if not more easily.

Especially since they're the ones paying the bills, to a large degree.

But that obviously hasn't happened.

Yet.

I won't rant like usual,

And there was much rejoicing

HShockeywatcher wrote:but I would say those others would have change indirectly, but coaches not only 'score' officials and have [some] control over who refs their games, but have control over who sees not only the ice, but the roster.

I can count more 1st/2nd periods this season that have had hitting after the whistle than not, for example. This wouldn't happen if coaches didn't put up with it.

I think you are more right in parents playing a role in the development of players and their attitudes, but not as much what happens in high school games.
Fans often want a rough game, which they can still have with illegal hits being called. Many fans would argue a better game.
Just my two cents.

This discussion gets brought up every year. Ultimately, change won't happen until there is more emphasis put on safety from the top down.

I think a lot of the "wouldn't happen if coaches (or whomever) didn't put up with it is precisely because they know that, chances are, nothing will be called, and if so, not to the degree it should.

The ambiguity with callsl/how they're called is a big part of the reason players do what they do.
It's worth the "chance" in their eyes, because there's a good chance, nothing will come of it.