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Nominations on Hub for f/d and goalies. Congrats to the players selected and the 25 who could have been. Great season!

Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:Nominations on Hub for f/d and goalies. Congrats to the players selected and the 25 who could have been. Great season!

I clicked on this thread to take in some direct info about Ms Hockey candidates but I was duped by NTMH again!!!....When will I learn??


Here is some help NTMH

http://www.mngirlshockeyhub.com/news_ar ... _id=868951

Obviously I didn't include the link. Figured most here were already navigating the Hub without my help. Im sorry you had to get to the internet article all by yourself. Just trying to introduce a new topic.

Are you insinuating the Sticky for "Links to Newspaper and Web articles on girls hockey" serves no purpose on this forum??

Maybe I had too high of expectations to find content past the headline?

Ms Hockey is certainly a great new topic!

Lets speak about the topic!
And I scrolled past those sticky messages about a hundred times without paying attention to them. I still think this should be its own thread, but appreciate the info on where this kind of info can be found. So sorry. And feel free to move this if you don't think people want to talk about it. Which is kinda crazy.
So AAA...who's your top 5? Number 1? Who got overlooked? Don't everyone write at once.

Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:Lets speak about the topic!
And I scrolled past those sticky messages about a hundred times without paying attention to them. I still think this should be its own thread, but appreciate the info on where this kind of info can be found. So sorry. And feel free to move this if you don't think people want to talk about it. Which is kinda crazy.
So AAA...who's your top 5? Number 1? Who got overlooked? Don't everyone write at once.

My vote is Baldy or Nina...but I got $50 says OsMetrodad posts something about the LSQRANK ratings on this post too!

I'd pick Donovan at forward Baldwin at D. To the guys who've been following this for a lot longer than me, does this award typically go to a high scoring playmaking offender or a offense minded d who is her goalies all time fave teammate? Seems like the boys awards tend to skew to forwards - but that's in my memory and I have no stats to back that up what so ever.

Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:I'd pick Donovan at forward Baldwin at D. To the guys who've been following this for a lot longer than me, does this award typically go to a high scoring playmaking offender or a offense minded d who is her goalies all time fave teammate? Seems like the boys awards tend to skew to forwards - but that's in my memory and I have no stats to back that up what so ever.

14 of the 18 Ms. Hockey Awards have gone to forwards, including all of the past 11.

http://www.mghca.com/page/show/115701-ms-hockey

So, maybe it's time for a D? Also, 5 of the last 6 have gone on to play for the U of M, so if those odds continue, that just could-maybe-possibly-might mean Tonka's #8? Or, if the forward streak should continue, along with whatever edge U of M commitments might enjoy, BSM's No. 19 will also be a Gopher...

Congratulations and best of luck to all of the candidates. I'm sure all of them are deserving, as I'm sure they all have other things on their mind right now.

Must be a down year for goalies, several are below .500 and not in the top 45 on goals against or save %. Seems in years past a goalie at least had to be above .500 to make the list

36Guy wrote:

Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:Lets speak about the topic!
And I scrolled past those sticky messages about a hundred times without paying attention to them. I still think this should be its own thread, but appreciate the info on where this kind of info can be found. So sorry. And feel free to move this if you don't think people want to talk about it. Which is kinda crazy.
So AAA...who's your top 5? Number 1? Who got overlooked? Don't everyone write at once.

My vote is Baldy or Nina...but I got $50 says OsMetrodad posts something about the LSQRANK ratings on this post too!

LMFAO!!! no doubt on OSMD!!!

Bubble nominees? Here's a start - Aney Rochester, Fawcett Proctor, Baysoy SPA, ???

And thx for the history lesson MNHockey

Bullgod wrote:Must be a down year for goalies, several are below .500 and not in the top 45 on goals against or save %. Seems in years past a goalie at least had to be above .500 to make the list

I would disagree. Only 2 teams of the 10 semifinalists are below .500 (WBL and North Metro), but I think it's good that sub-.500 goaltenders don't get overlooked. (I believe the WBL goalie made the HP Advanced National Camp in the past.) I don't think you should penalize the goaltender for playing on a bad or below average team where their GAA gets inflated. (North Metro has scored 19 goals all year and hasn't scored a goal in 12 of their games; I'm not sure that Noora Raty would have an above-.500 record if she was in goal for them!)

Also, I'm not sure how you're coming up with your "top 45" - IMHO, goalies who've played fewer than 500 minutes (i.e. less than 10 games) should really not be considered in any full season goalie leader rankings/awards (and, of course, only Seniors are eligible for this award so underclassmen would have to be excluded).

You could make an argument that a couple on the list might be borderline candidates, but I think it's a quality group overall.

So with presumably no clear-cut winners, how much do you think that the non-ice criteria (e.g., academics and community service) will factor into the selection? Might these be legitimate tie-breakers or do forum members believe that it still really comes down to on-ice performance?

No dog in the fight and I've seen them all play....in my opinion it's not even close....Sydney Baldwin. She plays great defense (others can match that) but what separates her from others is the offensive threat she is.

If a "D" can't win, I'd go with Rodgers or Reilly.

MNHockeyFan wrote:
14 of the 18 Ms. Hockey Awards have gone to forwards, including all of the past 11.

If they can make a seperate Ms Hockey award for the best goalie why not go 1 step further and have a Ms Hockey award for best defenseman in the State. Great defensive players will almost always get overshadowed by the high scoring forwards yet they are just as important to the team are they not?.... Seems like 3 categories vs 2 is something worth considering.

I would have to agree. And I've seen great D men and women keep their teams in games they had (on paper) no right to be in, and if you ask a goalie they could prob tell you the best D they've played with on every team their entire careers. Both good D and good forwards can make their teammates look better, but I've seen a lot of quality teams destroyed by bad D lines. There are some D you just rest easier when they are out. Just like you look for some offense lines to turn up in front. I'm sure on ice +/- stats factor into this award.

Lets Play Hockey has a separate defense award for boys but not girls. They should separate forwards and defense and move to 5 goalie semifinalists. There is just not enough teams that have a senior goalie as the #1 tender to have 10 semifinalists at one position.

MinnGirlsHockey wrote:

Bullgod wrote:Must be a down year for goalies, several are below .500 and not in the top 45 on goals against or save %. Seems in years past a goalie at least had to be above .500 to make the list

I would disagree. Only 2 teams of the 10 semifinalists are below .500 (WBL and North Metro), but I think it's good that sub-.500 goaltenders don't get overlooked. (I believe the WBL goalie made the HP Advanced National Camp in the past.) I don't think you should penalize the goaltender for playing on a bad or below average team where their GAA gets inflated. (North Metro has scored 19 goals all year and hasn't scored a goal in 12 of their games; I'm not sure that Noora Raty would have an above-.500 record if she was in goal for them!)

Also, I'm not sure how you're coming up with your "top 45" - IMHO, goalies who've played fewer than 500 minutes (i.e. less than 10 games) should really not be considered in any full season goalie leader rankings/awards (and, of course, only Seniors are eligible for this award so underclassmen would have to be excluded).

You could make an argument that a couple on the list might be borderline candidates, but I think it's a quality group overall.

I was referring to the leader board on hockey hub, w/ ties it listed 45, today some go to 50. That's where I got the top 45. I don't think what a goalie does 2 years ago in the advanced program, should have any bearing on this award.
I believe last year someone posted, that the reason the Grand Rapids goalie didn't make it was because of a sub .500 record. So, if that played into it last year, then this year there must not be that many Sr. goalies to chose from. Is all I am saying. I am sure they are all talented.
That being said I don't agree with selection process. If you shouldn't be judged adversely for playing on a bad team, then why should you be rewarded for playing on a loaded team. If the last 2-3 winners are any indication, then I would say Miller wins. The award seems to go to the goalie with the most D 1 players in front of her. I think you could replace last years winner w/ 75% of the varsity goalies in the state and have similar results. She is very talented, no doubt, but it sure helps to have that many D 1 players in front of you.
Maybe the voters are just lazy, but I think the main criteria should be how valuable the goalie is to a team. Would Forest lake, EP or HM have made it to state last year with different goalies? I think Tonka would have made it with their back up.

Bullgod, I think we agree more than we disagree.

Bullgod wrote:I was referring to the leader board on hockey hub, w/ ties it listed 45, today some go to 50. That's where I got the top 45.

Thanks for the info. I tried the same thing on the Hub but with all of the goalies playing the equivalent of about 1 to 5 varsity games (and there are a ton of these!), I found it difficult to find the "true" top 25 or top 50 in each category.

Bullgod wrote:I don't think what a goalie does 2 years ago in the advanced program, should have any bearing on this award.

Agreed. I was just trying to point out that one of the sub-.500 goalies has talent and is not "unworthy" of being a semifinalist.

Bullgod wrote:That being said I don't agree with selection process. If you shouldn't be judged adversely for playing on a bad team, then why should you be rewarded for playing on a loaded team.

Agreed.

Bullgod wrote:Maybe the voters are just lazy, but I think the main criteria should be how valuable the goalie is to a team.

Agreed.

Bullgod wrote:Would Forest lake, EP or HM have made it to state last year with different goalies? I think Tonka would have made it with their back up.

I might disagree with you a bit on HM. Their goalie certainly played well last year but I don't think Section 4AA was nearly as strong last year (and this year) as it's been prior to that. Hill allowed fewer than 50 shots total in their 3 section games last year.

Extremely disappointed Reilly Fawcett wasn't in the mix. Top points leader in the north, consistently at the top for several years, D1 recruit to Bemidji, leader on and off the ice, etc. Do players from the north need an advocate on the voting panel in order to be considered?

Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:Bubble nominees? Here's a start - Aney Rochester, Fawcett Proctor, Baysoy SPA, ???

And thx for the history lesson MNHockey

Note my shout out to your girl, above. Not that it's any consolation, but some metro people pay attention to the north (and south.)

I like the odds of Rodgers taking home the prize. If there is a curve ball and a D is chosen I think it goes to Baldwin.

Some over-looked players in MY MIND :

Coleman- Burnsville
Power- Apple Valley
Klein- Wayzata

I guess you could say I am biased being from the cites

If you mention overlooked or slighted players, you also need to mention who on the list needs to be removed in exchange. You can't take the easy way and merely add to the list. Any thoughts on this?

Not it.

In response to the recent thread on adjusted stats, I thought I would look at how the Ms. Hockey semifinalists fared vs. top competition. In the table below I've listed each player's overall goals and total points for the season along with those scored in the games they played against my list of the 12 and 29 highest ranked teams. At the bottom I've included the bubble players mentioned in this thread that possibly should have been considered.

My top 12 list of teams includes the top ten teams in class AA mentioned in either the Jan. 29 LPH list or the Feb. 2 KRACH rankings plus Thief River Falls since they made the KRACH overall top 10, the only A team to do so. The AA list includes Hopkins, EP, Minnetonka, HM, BSM, Wayzata, Edina, Blaine, Lakeville N, Irondale, and Maple Grove.

My top 29 list includes the top 20 in AA and the top 5 in A for either the same LPH or KRACH rankings. This group includes the 12 above plus Dodge Co., Stillwater, Mounds View, Burnsville, Lakeville S, Jefferson, CDH, Roseville, Buffalo, Eastview, Robbinsdale A/C, and Chaska/Chan in AA, plus East Grand Forks, Achiever, Blake, Warroad, and Red Wing in A.

I'll leave it to others to comment on who should move up or down.
Note that the games played listed for each player does account for games that players did not participate in for the cases I was aware of.