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Do people still think having high school section finals in their own back yard is no advantage after watching how the Wild series is playing out?

There is no such thing as home ice advantage just ask any Duluth East hockey fan.

MrBoDangles wrote:Do people still think having high school section finals in their own back yard is no advantage after watching how the Wild series is playing out?

Yeah, because travel and crowds in the NHL are so similar to High School.

MrBoDangles wrote:Do people still think having high school section finals in their own back yard is no advantage after watching how the Wild series is playing out?

Let's see--a single seven-game playoff series in the NHL proves that there is a distinct home ice advantage. In high school. Got it.

Lee

Froggy Richards wrote:

MrBoDangles wrote:Do people still think having high school section finals in their own back yard is no advantage after watching how the Wild series is playing out?

Yeah, because travel and crowds in the NHL are so similar to High School.

I suppose you're right that it would pump up a kid more being in front of a huge crowd of family, friends, classmates, hometown folks and girlfriends.

east hockey wrote:

MrBoDangles wrote:Do people still think having high school section finals in their own back yard is no advantage after watching how the Wild series is playing out?

Let's see--a single seven-game playoff series in the NHL proves that there is a distinct home ice advantage. In high school. Got it.

Lee

You're all alone in not seeing the home ice advantage...

east hockey wrote:

MrBoDangles wrote:Do people still think having high school section finals in their own back yard is no advantage after watching how the Wild series is playing out?

Let's see--a single seven-game playoff series in the NHL proves that there is a distinct home ice advantage. In high school. Got it.

Lee

Those would be my EXACT sentiments too...if all semi-final and final games for the team I root for...were HOME GAMES too!

hockey59 wrote:

east hockey wrote:

MrBoDangles wrote:Do people still think having high school section finals in their own back yard is no advantage after watching how the Wild series is playing out?

Let's see--a single seven-game playoff series in the NHL proves that there is a distinct home ice advantage. In high school. Got it.

Lee

Those would be my EXACT sentiments too...if all semi-final and final games for the team I root for...were HOME GAMES too!

When you pick one series at a professional level to "prove" some theory about the high school level, that is called "cherry picking". Do you have any studies regarding what the actual average home ice advantage is at the high school level? Any studies at all?

It has little to do with Duluth East, and everything to do with my thinly veiled contempt for people who think they understand statistical analysis. I, as Sheldon Cooper would, snort in derision.

Lee

east hockey wrote:When you pick one series at a professional level to "prove" some theory about the high school level, that is called "cherry picking". Do you have any studies regarding what the actual average home ice advantage is at the high school level? Any studies at all?

It has little to do with Duluth East, and everything to do with my thinly veiled contempt for people who think they understand statistical analysis. I, as Sheldon Cooper would, snort in derision.

Lee

There's home advantage in all sports, and at all levels. It's very rare when it's not the case.

A quick google search of scientific studies showed 7-14% upper hand for the home team of the four major sports... Huge numbers when you consider that a 60% face off percentage is outstanding..

MrBoDangles wrote:

east hockey wrote:When you pick one series at a professional level to "prove" some theory about the high school level, that is called "cherry picking". Do you have any studies regarding what the actual average home ice advantage is at the high school level? Any studies at all?

It has little to do with Duluth East, and everything to do with my thinly veiled contempt for people who think they understand statistical analysis. I, as Sheldon Cooper would, snort in derision.

Lee

There's home advantage in all sports, and at all levels. It's very rare when it's not the case.

Not denying that, although the scope of that advantage is debatable. I'm stating that your attempt to use a single series to support a general hypothesis is weak.

The question of home ice advantage in high school hockey stands. How much is it? If you want to get specific, since you used East as an example, would home ice account for their winning six straight trips to state? How much of it has to do with their coach knowing how to prepare his teams for a section tournament game better than their opponents? How much of it has to do with better team play? Better talent? Other than the first question, you can't quantify answers to those questions, but they play a part, maybe a large part, maybe a small part.

Lee

Any team would take home ice for sectionals and know that it's an advantage.

* I never brought up DE or 7AA

MrBoDangles wrote:Any team would take home ice for sectionals and know that it's an advantage.

But how much of an advantage? And if a team is the top seed, isn't that advantage deserved? Sort of like #2 Colorado deserves four home games in their series with the #7 Wild.

Lee

east hockey wrote:

MrBoDangles wrote:Any team would take home ice for sectionals and know that it's an advantage.

But how much of an advantage? And if a team is the top seed, isn't that advantage deserved? Sort of like #2 Colorado deserves four home games in their series with the #7 Wild.

Lee

Is that advantage in every section?

And yes, GR or Elk River should have home ice if the 1 seed.

MrBoDangles wrote:

east hockey wrote:

MrBoDangles wrote:Any team would take home ice for sectionals and know that it's an advantage.

But how much of an advantage? And if a team is the top seed, isn't that advantage deserved? Sort of like #2 Colorado deserves four home games in their series with the #7 Wild.

Lee

Is that advantage in every section?

It should be.

Lee

MrBoDangles wrote:

east hockey wrote:When you pick one series at a professional level to "prove" some theory about the high school level, that is called "cherry picking". Do you have any studies regarding what the actual average home ice advantage is at the high school level? Any studies at all?

It has little to do with Duluth East, and everything to do with my thinly veiled contempt for people who think they understand statistical analysis. I, as Sheldon Cooper would, snort in derision.

Lee

There's home advantage in all sports, and at all levels. It's very rare when it's not the case.

A quick google search of scientific studies showed 7-14% upper hand for the home team of the four major sports... Huge numbers when you consider that a 60% face off percentage is outstanding..

Justin Morneau was asked about home field advantage when the Twins moved to Target Field, since everyone perceived them to have an advantage in the Dome. He said, "Home field advantage is sleeping in your own bed. There isn't much more to it than that." Other than in the NFL, I think he's right.

And that's at the Pro Level with 45,000 screaming fans. Amsoil was pretty empty this year and it was very quiet. If you need 100-200 extra people from your hometown at the Arena to get up for a Section Final, then you probably don't deserve to win.

Froggy Richards wrote:

MrBoDangles wrote:

east hockey wrote:When you pick one series at a professional level to "prove" some theory about the high school level, that is called "cherry picking". Do you have any studies regarding what the actual average home ice advantage is at the high school level? Any studies at all?

It has little to do with Duluth East, and everything to do with my thinly veiled contempt for people who think they understand statistical analysis. I, as Sheldon Cooper would, snort in derision.

Lee

There's home advantage in all sports, and at all levels. It's very rare when it's not the case.

A quick google search of scientific studies showed 7-14% upper hand for the home team of the four major sports... Huge numbers when you consider that a 60% face off percentage is outstanding..

Justin Morneau was asked about home field advantage when the Twins moved to Target Field, since everyone perceived them to have an advantage in the Dome. He said, "Home field advantage is sleeping in your own bed. There isn't much more to it than that." Other than in the NFL, I think he's right.

And that's at the Pro Level with 45,000 screaming fans. Amsoil was pretty empty this year and it was very quiet. If you need 100-200 extra people from your hometown at the Arena to get up for a Section Final, then you probably don't deserve to win.

"Other than the NFL"

The NBA is at a 16% advantage...

MrBoDangles wrote:

Froggy Richards wrote:

MrBoDangles wrote: There's home advantage in all sports, and at all levels. It's very rare when it's not the case.

A quick google search of scientific studies showed 7-14% upper hand for the home team of the four major sports... Huge numbers when you consider that a 60% face off percentage is outstanding..

Justin Morneau was asked about home field advantage when the Twins moved to Target Field, since everyone perceived them to have an advantage in the Dome. He said, "Home field advantage is sleeping in your own bed. There isn't much more to it than that." Other than in the NFL, I think he's right.

And that's at the Pro Level with 45,000 screaming fans. Amsoil was pretty empty this year and it was very quiet. If you need 100-200 extra people from your hometown at the Arena to get up for a Section Final, then you probably don't deserve to win.

"Other than the NFL"

The NBA is at a 16% advantage...

I used the NFL because there has always seemed to be a home field advantage in that league. I'm not sure you can take anything from the NBA, that league is pretty much a joke. Regardless though, these are pro leagues with Air Travel and Hotel stays involved. That is where most of any advantage would come in. I think we can all agree that sleeping in your own bed and getting a good night's sleep is pretty huge when you have to perform athletically the next day.

None of that comes into play in Section Finals. You throw on your headphones and travel two hours on a freeway in a charter bus. When I played High School Hockey, I don't ever remember one time where any of us thought we had an advantage at home or a disadvantage on the road. When you're on the ice you don't notice the crowd, it's like they're not even there. You may look up there once in awhile when you're on the bench but I'm not sure how that's an advantage. It could even be a disadvantage. What if your girlfriend is sharing a box of popcorn with the captain of the Basketball Team? That could throw a guy off of his game I'm sure.

And I'm not an East fan so I have no motive here, other than I think using this argument is sour grapes and an excuse. Nobody but East fans likes the fact that they win it every year. It's frustrating. I get it. They had the better team those years and won. Making excuses won't change that.

east hockey wrote:When you pick one series at a professional level to "prove" some theory about the high school level, that is called "cherry picking". Do you have any studies regarding what the actual average home ice advantage is at the high school level? Any studies at all?

It has little to do with Duluth East, and everything to do with my thinly veiled contempt for people who think they understand statistical analysis. I, as Sheldon Cooper would, snort in derision.

Lee

There is a resemblance.

I'm staying out of this one, Lee has the hammer.

elliott70 wrote:

east hockey wrote:When you pick one series at a professional level to "prove" some theory about the high school level, that is called "cherry picking". Do you have any studies regarding what the actual average home ice advantage is at the high school level? Any studies at all?

It has little to do with Duluth East, and everything to do with my thinly veiled contempt for people who think they understand statistical analysis. I, as Sheldon Cooper would, snort in derision.

Lee

There is a resemblance.

Sheldon can't grow a moustache, but I'd love to have his eidetic memory.

Lee

MrBoDangles wrote:Do people still think having high school section finals in their own back yard is no advantage after watching how the Wild series is playing out?

Are we talking "home ice" or the benefits on the ice of being the "home" team?

I am not an amazing hockey mind but it feels like the ability to have the last line change from a match up perspective is just more important than 18k screaming fans.

In the NFL it makes it very difficult to run and call plays or make audibles when you are the visitor. Is there similar parallels in the NBA/MLB/NHL?

east hockey wrote:When you pick one series at a professional level to "prove" some theory about the high school level, that is called "cherry picking". Do you have any studies regarding what the actual average home ice advantage is at the high school level? Any studies at all?


Lee

I don't really care that they play 7AA in Duluth, it seems to be the best location to have the tournament, but I do think it gives East a slight advantage.
I didn't look for any stats for proof but I did think about Minnetonka and their success at Pagel over the last few years. Yes they did poor this year at home but they had a down year. Before this year they had not lost there in what? 3-4 years?
What if 6AA was played at Pagel, maybe they would have gone to state a little more, maybe not.
Probably not the best example for "proof" but this seemed to be the one that popped into my head

Froggy Richards wrote:

MrBoDangles wrote:

Froggy Richards wrote: Justin Morneau was asked about home field advantage when the Twins moved to Target Field, since everyone perceived them to have an advantage in the Dome. He said, "Home field advantage is sleeping in your own bed. There isn't much more to it than that." Other than in the NFL, I think he's right.

And that's at the Pro Level with 45,000 screaming fans. Amsoil was pretty empty this year and it was very quiet. If you need 100-200 extra people from your hometown at the Arena to get up for a Section Final, then you probably don't deserve to win.

"Other than the NFL"

The NBA is at a 16% advantage...

I used the NFL because there has always seemed to be a home field advantage in that league. I'm not sure you can take anything from the NBA, that league is pretty much a joke. Regardless though, these are pro leagues with Air Travel and Hotel stays involved. That is where most of any advantage would come in. I think we can all agree that sleeping in your own bed and getting a good night's sleep is pretty huge when you have to perform athletically the next day.

None of that comes into play in Section Finals. You throw on your headphones and travel two hours on a freeway in a charter bus. When I played High School Hockey, I don't ever remember one time where any of us thought we had an advantage at home or a disadvantage on the road. When you're on the ice you don't notice the crowd, it's like they're not even there. You may look up there once in awhile when you're on the bench but I'm not sure how that's an advantage. It could even be a disadvantage. What if your girlfriend is sharing a box of popcorn with the captain of the Basketball Team? That could throw a guy off of his game I'm sure.

And I'm not an East fan so I have no motive here, other than I think using this argument is sour grapes and an excuse. Nobody but East fans likes the fact that they win it every year. It's frustrating. I get it. They had the better team those years and won. Making excuses won't change that.

Was the Clippers owner's girlfriend sharing some popcorn with the players?

I'd probably saying "no advantage" too if my team had the advantage.. Not directed to you.. Just a statement.

Any fan would

I have a hard time seeing where the Wild/Colorado series is any example of home ice advantage. The Wild very nearly won games 1 and 5 in Colorado. Game 6 plays out with almost exactly the same script, but this time the Wild get off a shot and there is no missed penalty or offside.

I see no evidence of home ice advantage in this series. I do see evidence that Kuemper in net is an advantage over Bryzgalov. If Kemper started the series there wouldn't have been a game 6.