HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

ghshockeyfan wrote:Main website: http://www.bgoski.com/krach

See MN Hockey Hub for rankings and more info.:
http://www.mghca.com/page/show/427504-krach-rankings

1) This only counts games vs. MSHSL varsity teams.
2) This only uses scores entered on the Girls' Hockey Hub/MGHCA website:
http://www.mghca.com
To enter a missing score contact your team rep. Each team should have a person responsible for updating this information (coach, parent, manager, etc.) - you can also email: scores@tstmedia.com - see: http://www.mngirlshockeyhub.com/page/sh ... mit-scores (they really want a scoresheet image though)
3) For past years' ranking and further explanation:
http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=31794
http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=29597
http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=27266
http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24859
http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21598
http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18448
http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7973
http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4348
4) Most Recent Ranking Links:
==========================================
OVERALL:
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA.htm
CLASS AA:
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_AA.htm
CLASS A:
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_A.htm
SECTION:
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_SEC.htm
SOS (Strength-Of-Schedule) is at:
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_SOS.htm
==========================================
5) Past Ranking Links for 2013-14:
==========================================
OVERALL:
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA_20140223.htm (2013-14 FINAL)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA_20130302.htm (2012-13 FINAL)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA_20120226.htm (2011-12 FINAL)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA_20110227.htm (2010-11 FINAL)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA_20100228.htm (2009-10 FINAL)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA_2008-9_FINAL.htm
***2007-8_FINAL (No KRACH)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA_C_S_2006-7_FINAL.htm
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA_C_S_2005-6_FINAL.htm
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA_C_2004-5_FINAL.htm
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA_C_2003-4_FINAL.htm
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA_C_S_2002-3_FINAL.htm
pre-KRACH OA rankings:
http://www.minnhock.com/ps2003g.htm (2002-3 FINAL)
http://www.minnhock.com/ps2002g.htm (2001-2 FINAL)
http://www.minnhock.com/ps2001g.htm (2000-1 FINAL)
http://www.minnhock.com/ps2000g.htm (1999-2000 FINAL)
http://www.minnhock.com/ps1999g.htm (1998-9 FINAL)
http://www.minnhock.com/archives.htm (General Pre-KRACH Archives)
CLASS AA:
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_AA_20140223.htm (2013-14 FINAL)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_AA_20130302.htm (2012-13 FINAL)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_AA_20120226.htm (2011-12 FINAL)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_AA_20110227.htm (2010-11 FINAL)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_AA_20100228.htm (2009-10 FINAL)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_AA_2008-9_FINAL.htm
***2007-8_FINAL (No KRACH) - instead see http://www.minnesota-scores.net/classqr ... 10&class=3
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA_C_S_2006-7_FINAL.htm
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA_C_S_2005-6_FINAL.htm
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA_C_2004-5_FINAL.htm
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA_C_2003-4_FINAL.htm
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA_C_S_2002-3_FINAL.htm
***No pre-KRACH Class rankings
CLASS A:
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_A_20140223.htm (2013-14 FINAL)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_A_20130302.htm (2012-13 FINAL)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_A_20120226.htm (2011-12 FINAL)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_A_20110227.htm (2010-11 FINAL)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_A_20100228.htm (2009-10 FINAL)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_A_2008-9_FINAL.htm
***2007-8_FINAL (No KRACH) - instead see http://www.minnesota-scores.net/classqr ... 10&class=2
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA_C_S_2006-7_FINAL.htm
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA_C_S_2005-6_FINAL.htm
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA_C_2004-5_FINAL.htm
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA_C_2003-4_FINAL.htm
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA_C_S_2002-3_FINAL.htm
***No pre-KRACH Class rankings
SECTION:
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_SEC_20140223.htm (2013-14 FINAL)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_SEC_20130302.htm (2012-13 FINAL)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_SEC_20120226.htm (2011-12 FINAL)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_SEC_20110227.htm (2010-11 FINAL)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_SEC_20100228.htm (2009-10 FINAL)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_SEC_2008-9_FINAL.htm
***2007-8_FINAL (No KRACH)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA_C_S_2006-7_FINAL.htm
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA_C_S_2005-6_FINAL.htm
***2004-5_FINAL (No KRACH by Section)
***2003-4_FINAL (No KRACH by Section)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_OA_C_S_2002-3_FINAL.htm
***No pre-KRACH Section rankings
SOS (Strength-Of-Schedule) is at:
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_SOS_20140223.htm (2013-14 FINAL)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_SOS_20130302.htm (2012-13 FINAL)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_SOS_20120226.htm (2011-12 FINAL)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_SOS_20110227.htm (2010-11 FINAL)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_SOS_20100228.htm (2009-10 FINAL)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_SOS_2008-9_FINAL.htm
***2007-8_FINAL (No KRACH)
***2006-7_FINAL (No KRACH SOS)
http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_SOS_2005-6_FINAL.htm
***2004-5_FINAL (No KRACH SOS)
***2003-4_FINAL (No KRACH SOS)
***2002-3_FINAL (No KRACH SOS)
***No pre-KRACH SOS rankings
==========================================

ghshockeyfan wrote:I get asked a lot about the KRACH method of ranking, related issues, etc. as posted at:

http://www.esportsdesk.com/leagues/fron ... entID=1830
&
http://bgoski.com/rank/

Here are some key links for more info. if anyone wants it:

http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic. ... =6&stop=10
http://p100.ezboard.com/fmnhsfrm19.show ... 9&stop=149
http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7973


USCHO (Claims that this system is best for SOS concerns):
www.uscho.com/rankings/?data=krach
www.uscho.com/FAQs/?data=krach

Ken Butler's original KRACH explanation page (with examples):
www.mscs.dal.ca/~butler/krachexp.htm
***This seems to be the best explenation...

John Whelan has a more detailed mathematical analysis of KRACH.:
http://www.slack.net/~whelan/tbrw/tbrw.cgi?krach
System Comparison of College Hockey...
http://www.slack.net/~whelan/tbrw/tbrw.cgi?krach
A Proposed Modification to the NCAA Selection Criteria:
http://www.slack.net/~whelan/tbrw/tbrw.cgi?krach

SiouxSports.com's independently calculated KRACH ratings (normalized so North Dakota's KRACH rating is 100.):
www.siouxsports.com/hocke.../krach.php

Sparlimb wrote:I thought you've said in previous years it DOES take class into consideration and penalizes an AA team for playing an A team. I only remember because I never agreed with it.

ghshockeyfan wrote:

Sparlimb wrote:I thought you've said in previous years it DOES take class into consideration and penalizes an AA team for playing an A team. I only remember because I never agreed with it.

Indirectly - but not by intentionally saying that games against Class A teams should be down-weighted.

How so?

Well, unfortunately, Class A teams are usually weaker than Class AA teams.

So, if a team plays a lot of Class A opponents, then, the team's strength-of-schedule (SOS) is likely weaker - and this subsequently hinders the team's ability to rank as highly as a team that is playing a stronger SOS (likely with games against more AA opponents).

...But, you still have to win games either way - so just playing a tough SOS doesn't mean you'll rank high if you lose, but that's not the point of this response...

Hill Murray had this problem for years in the Classic Suburban conference - where they had to play many (theoretically) weaker Class A teams based on their commitment to the conference schedule (even though they won almost all their games each year it seemed).

My understanding is that the new Metro East has addressed this to some degree by having certain conference teams play only once, thus allowing the top teams to play stronger non-conference opponents as opposed to two games against a weaker conference opponent.

The Classic Suburban addressed this too some seasons through a "powerized" schedule doing essentially the same as what the Metro East is doing now - but that was only for a few years in the mid-2000s. I remember this as I coached one of those Class A teams that only got to play a then-Class-AA SSP powerhouse 1x per season as opposed to the standard home and home 2x/year setup in a conference.

Sparlimb wrote:

ghshockeyfan wrote:

Sparlimb wrote:I thought you've said in previous years it DOES take class into consideration and penalizes an AA team for playing an A team. I only remember because I never agreed with it.

Indirectly - but not by intentionally saying that games against Class A teams should be down-weighted.

How so?

Well, unfortunately, Class A teams are usually weaker than Class AA teams.

So, if a team plays a lot of Class A opponents, then, the team's strength-of-schedule (SOS) is likely weaker - and this subsequently hinders the team's ability to rank as highly as a team that is playing a stronger SOS (likely with games against more AA opponents).

...But, you still have to win games either way - so just playing a tough SOS doesn't mean you'll rank high if you lose, but that's not the point of this response...

Hill Murray had this problem for years in the Classic Suburban conference - where they had to play many (theoretically) weaker Class A teams based on their commitment to the conference schedule (even though they won almost all their games each year it seemed).

My understanding is that the new Metro East has addressed this to some degree by having certain conference teams play only once, thus allowing the top teams to play stronger non-conference opponents as opposed to two games against a weaker conference opponent.

The Classic Suburban addressed this too some seasons through a "powerized" schedule doing essentially the same as what the Metro East is doing now - but that was only for a few years in the mid-2000s. I remember this as I coached one of those Class A teams that only got to play a then-Class-AA SSP powerhouse 1x per season as opposed to the standard home and home 2x/year setup in a conference.

I still disagree with the thought. Since the high school league makes no distinction in class during the regular season, I'm not sure why computer rankings need to. I'd consider all teams the same and just let it work itself out. Blake very well may be one of the top 5 teams in state this year. Anyone that can beat them shouldn't be penalized because their enrollment is small, instead they should get credit for beating a top 5 team. Anyway, just another opinion. Your system, your rules. I do believe Lee and Mitch's computer rankings both take all teams as one during the regular season.

LZ94 wrote:

Sparlimb wrote:

ghshockeyfan wrote: Indirectly - but not by intentionally saying that games against Class A teams should be down-weighted.

How so?

Well, unfortunately, Class A teams are usually weaker than Class AA teams.

So, if a team plays a lot of Class A opponents, then, the team's strength-of-schedule (SOS) is likely weaker - and this subsequently hinders the team's ability to rank as highly as a team that is playing a stronger SOS (likely with games against more AA opponents).

...But, you still have to win games either way - so just playing a tough SOS doesn't mean you'll rank high if you lose, but that's not the point of this response...

Hill Murray had this problem for years in the Classic Suburban conference - where they had to play many (theoretically) weaker Class A teams based on their commitment to the conference schedule (even though they won almost all their games each year it seemed).

My understanding is that the new Metro East has addressed this to some degree by having certain conference teams play only once, thus allowing the top teams to play stronger non-conference opponents as opposed to two games against a weaker conference opponent.

The Classic Suburban addressed this too some seasons through a "powerized" schedule doing essentially the same as what the Metro East is doing now - but that was only for a few years in the mid-2000s. I remember this as I coached one of those Class A teams that only got to play a then-Class-AA SSP powerhouse 1x per season as opposed to the standard home and home 2x/year setup in a conference.

I still disagree with the thought. Since the high school league makes no distinction in class during the regular season, I'm not sure why computer rankings need to. I'd consider all teams the same and just let it work itself out. Blake very well may be one of the top 5 teams in state this year. Anyone that can beat them shouldn't be penalized because their enrollment is small, instead they should get credit for beating a top 5 team. Anyway, just another opinion. Your system, your rules. I do believe Lee and Mitch's computer rankings both take all teams as one during the regular season.

Spar - if you read his explanation again, I think you will see that there is no down grading of a team for being class A or playing class A teams. How I read his explanation is that you end up getting penalized for playing class A teams strictly because more often than not they are weaker teams. Just like other systems, a team is a team, and a win is a win, but if you are playing weaker teams, your SOS will take a hit, regardless of class, it just so happens that there are more class A teams that are weaker.

ghshockeyfan wrote:

LZ94 wrote:

Sparlimb wrote: I still disagree with the thought. Since the high school league makes no distinction in class during the regular season, I'm not sure why computer rankings need to. I'd consider all teams the same and just let it work itself out. Blake very well may be one of the top 5 teams in state this year. Anyone that can beat them shouldn't be penalized because their enrollment is small, instead they should get credit for beating a top 5 team. Anyway, just another opinion. Your system, your rules. I do believe Lee and Mitch's computer rankings both take all teams as one during the regular season.

Spar - if you read his explanation again, I think you will see that there is no down grading of a team for being class A or playing class A teams. How I read his explanation is that you end up getting penalized for playing class A teams strictly because more often than not they are weaker teams. Just like other systems, a team is a team, and a win is a win, but if you are playing weaker teams, your SOS will take a hit, regardless of class, it just so happens that there are more class A teams that are weaker.

Yes, that is what I was trying to say. KRACH treats all teams the same.

alcloseshaver wrote:Appreciate the hard work, but computer rankings are not relevant until at least halfway through the schedule. We end up with a team like Moose Lake ranked higher than some AA powers.

ghshockeyfan wrote:

alcloseshaver wrote:Appreciate the hard work, but computer rankings are not relevant until at least halfway through the schedule. We end up with a team like Moose Lake ranked higher than some AA powers.

Agreed, and that's why it won't go up until then on MGHCA site.

ghshockeyfan wrote:Probably won't post these for a while on MGHCA site as KRACH needs more data (games) to be of value, but for those that want to see how the first games work with KRACH, I'll post this here.

Looking at this early helped me initially understand how KRACH works, that it doesn't look at score or class, and that it only considers W/L/T & the strength of the schedule a team plays.

nu2hockey wrote:I do like the KRACH later in the year. I think it is a better guide than LPH.

Will the MGHCA site be fully running this season or will it be more of a zombie site like last year?

wolfman wrote:Is there any way B-E could get added into the KRACH ranking system? I just don't think it's fair not to include them in some way. I know they don't play Mn HS teams but they are unfairly being left out. The Wolfman thinks he is funny..