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State tourny Placement question
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:39 am
by inthetwine
I attended the Tartan/ Hill game last night. I noticed that Tartan has a banner that reads" State Tournament 2004 7th place and 2005 4th place". I'm pretty sure there is no award for 4th place, and I know the is no 7th/8th place game. I think the MSHSL only awards 1st,2nd,3rd, and Cons. awards. Other schools that don't win one of these have a banner that reads "State Tournament Particement."(sp?) Is it just me, or is Tartans banner kind of odd?
Re: State tourny Placement question
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:40 am
by Sats81
inthetwine wrote:I attended the Tartan/ Hill game last night. I noticed that Tartan has a banner that reads" State Tournament 2004 7th place and 2005 4th place". I'm pretty sure there is no award for 4th place, and I know the is no 7th/8th place game. I think the MSHSL only awards 1st,2nd,3rd, and Cons. awards. Other schools that don't win one of these have a banner that reads "State Tournament Particement." Is it just me, or is Tartans banner kind of odd?
4th place would be the team that loses 3rd place game...but yeah, other should say "participant"
Re: State tourny Placement question
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:40 pm
by mnmouth
Sats81 wrote:inthetwine wrote:I attended the Tartan/ Hill game last night. I noticed that Tartan has a banner that reads" State Tournament 2004 7th place and 2005 4th place". I'm pretty sure there is no award for 4th place, and I know the is no 7th/8th place game. I think the MSHSL only awards 1st,2nd,3rd, and Cons. awards. Other schools that don't win one of these have a banner that reads "State Tournament Particement." Is it just me, or is Tartans banner kind of odd?
4th place would be the team that loses 3rd place game...but yeah, other should say "participant"
To just take this in a little bit different direction. Why is the Consolation winner considered the 5th place team at State, yet they win one more game than the team that lost the 3rd place game but that team finishes 4th??
Re: State tourny Placement question
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:51 pm
by Sats81
mnmouth wrote:Sats81 wrote:inthetwine wrote:I attended the Tartan/ Hill game last night. I noticed that Tartan has a banner that reads" State Tournament 2004 7th place and 2005 4th place". I'm pretty sure there is no award for 4th place, and I know the is no 7th/8th place game. I think the MSHSL only awards 1st,2nd,3rd, and Cons. awards. Other schools that don't win one of these have a banner that reads "State Tournament Particement." Is it just me, or is Tartans banner kind of odd?
4th place would be the team that loses 3rd place game...but yeah, other should say "participant"
To just take this in a little bit different direction. Why is the Consolation winner considered the 5th place team at State, yet they win one more game than the team that lost the 3rd place game but that team finishes 4th??
Something I have never understood either...all depends on WHEN u lose..
Re: State tourny Placement question
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:52 pm
by HShockeywatcher
mnmouth wrote:Sats81 wrote:inthetwine wrote:I attended the Tartan/ Hill game last night. I noticed that Tartan has a banner that reads" State Tournament 2004 7th place and 2005 4th place". I'm pretty sure there is no award for 4th place, and I know the is no 7th/8th place game. I think the MSHSL only awards 1st,2nd,3rd, and Cons. awards. Other schools that don't win one of these have a banner that reads "State Tournament Particement." Is it just me, or is Tartans banner kind of odd?
4th place would be the team that loses 3rd place game...but yeah, other should say "participant"
To just take this in a little bit different direction. Why is the Consolation winner considered the 5th place team at State, yet they win one more game than the team that lost the 3rd place game but that team finishes 4th??
It's how a bracket works, especially one that is actually seeded. In theory, 4th place team lost to better teams than the 5th place team beat (there's a 25% chance the 4th beat the 5th in the first round).
A better question is why the 2nd place is a higher place than 3rd if they didn't beat the 3rd place team to get there.
I know that in some places where 2nd place matters, if 2nd didn't beat 3rd in the semi's, they can then play for 2nd place.
Re: State tourny Placement question
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:58 pm
by HShockeywatcher
Sats81 wrote:Something I have never understood either...all depends on WHEN u lose..
Ultimately it depends on if the bracket was seeded or not. If you have a tournament like a holiday tournament, "2nd," "3rd," and "5th" all have a 2-1 record (and theoretically could all have a loss to the same team), so it's really about WHO you lose to in that case.
Otherwise, in a seeded tournament, it's again about WHO you beat/lose to.
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:07 pm
by inthetwine
At the State tourny, there is a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and consolation. each team has at least 2 wins. There is no 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, or 8th. Consolation is not 5th place, it is the "Consolation champion."
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:14 pm
by boblee
inthetwine wrote:At the State tourny, there is a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and consolation. each team has at least 2 wins. There is no 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, or 8th. Consolation is not 5th place, it is the "Consolation champion."
I would imagine teams that lose the third place game put 4th on their banners and those that lose the consolation game put 6th. If you go 2 and out, you put participant. Not sure it is anything to get worked up about?
Re: State tourny Placement question
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:18 pm
by mnmouth
HShockeywatcher wrote:mnmouth wrote:Sats81 wrote:
4th place would be the team that loses 3rd place game...but yeah, other should say "participant"
To just take this in a little bit different direction. Why is the Consolation winner considered the 5th place team at State, yet they win one more game than the team that lost the 3rd place game but that team finishes 4th??
It's how a bracket works, especially one that is actually seeded. In theory, 4th place team lost to better teams than the 5th place team beat (there's a 25% chance the 4th beat the 5th in the first round).
A better question is why the 2nd place is a higher place than 3rd if they didn't beat the 3rd place team to get there.
I know that in some places where 2nd place matters, if 2nd didn't beat 3rd in the semi's, they can then play for 2nd place.
Exactly. This happens in wrestling all the time.
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:21 pm
by EliteHockeyMind
Why does this even matter? It is a tournament for a reason, the best team in state wins the championship. 3rd place and consolation are just pride games anyways.
Its like the College Football BCS Playoff now. No one gives a hoot about the other 3 teams besides Ohio State winning it all.
If you want to hang a banner for anything less than that it is kind of embarrassing. Hang one for a section championship rather than a state participant...
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:13 pm
by HShockeywatcher
EliteHockeyMind wrote:If you want to hang a banner for anything less than that it is kind of embarrassing. Hang one for a section championship rather than a state participant...
Definitely agree here. It's always amusing to see a "section champion" banner next to a "state participant" banner
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:23 pm
by elliott70
inthetwine wrote:At the State tourny, there is a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and consolation. each team has at least 2 wins. There is no 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, or 8th. Consolation is not 5th place, it is the "Consolation champion."
Agreed. This is what it is because that is what it says on the trophy.
Moving on....
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:24 pm
by mnmouth
EliteHockeyMind wrote:Why does this even matter? It is a tournament for a reason, the best team in state wins the championship. 3rd place and consolation are just pride games anyways.
Its like the College Football BCS Playoff now. No one gives a hoot about the other 3 teams besides Ohio State winning it all.
If you want to hang a banner for anything less than that it is kind of embarrassing. Hang one for a section championship rather than a state participant...
It doesn't. But this is Nitpick Central. Haven't you noticed??
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:39 pm
by elliott70
mnmouth wrote:EliteHockeyMind wrote:Why does this even matter? It is a tournament for a reason, the best team in state wins the championship. 3rd place and consolation are just pride games anyways.
Its like the College Football BCS Playoff now. No one gives a hoot about the other 3 teams besides Ohio State winning it all.
If you want to hang a banner for anything less than that it is kind of embarrassing. Hang one for a section championship rather than a state participant...
It doesn't. But this is
Nitpick Central. Haven't you noticed??
That's good...
Re: State tourny Placement question
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:34 pm
by gitter
inthetwine wrote:I attended the Tartan/ Hill game last night. I noticed that Tartan has a banner that reads" State Tournament 2004 7th place and 2005 4th place". I'm pretty sure there is no award for 4th place, and I know the is no 7th/8th place game. I think the MSHSL only awards 1st,2nd,3rd, and Cons. awards. Other schools that don't win one of these have a banner that reads "State Tournament Particement."(sp?) Is it just me, or is Tartans banner kind of odd?
Maybe in 2004 they rented a barn in Lake Placid the following Saturday and duked it out with Elk River to win the 7th place "game".
http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2011/12/2/2 ... ake-placid
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:11 pm
by alcloseshaver
mnmouth wrote:EliteHockeyMind wrote:Why does this even matter? It is a tournament for a reason, the best team in state wins the championship. 3rd place and consolation are just pride games anyways.
Its like the College Football BCS Playoff now. No one gives a hoot about the other 3 teams besides Ohio State winning it all.
If you want to hang a banner for anything less than that it is kind of embarrassing. Hang one for a section championship rather than a state participant...
It doesn't. But this is Nitpick Central. Haven't you noticed??
Lol