HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

There were lots of games over the holidays but unfortunately not a lot of games between ranked teams and of the ones that happened Totino over Luverne by 1 goal was the only upset, so there's not a lot of moving around. With all the hockey that's been played, there's still 7 teams who haven't lost a game to a Class A opponent, so there's still a lot to figure out with many teams would could move many spots still. We have many teams with some key games in the next two weeks.

Enjoy!

1. [2] Hermantown (10-1-1)
The Hawks beat another top team in Delano and handled some good AA teams as well, while avoiding the WI teams they could've played. Their next 4 will be their longest stretch of quality opponents for the rest of the regular season.
Tues 1/5 @ Grand Rapids, Fri 1/8 vs Cathedral, Tues 1/12 @ Greenway, Sat 1/16 vs Bemidji

2. [1] Breck (11-2)
The Mustangs lost a close one with a Rosemount team who has played a few good teams close, but they still haven't lost to a Class A team. It's really anyone's guess how the order of the top 3 should go, although we will get a much better idea in 4 days after Breck travels to St Cloud.
Thurs 1/7 @ St Cloud Apollo, Sat 1/9 @ Moorhead, Thurs 1/14 @ Holy Angels

3. [3] St Cloud Apollo (10-1)
The Eagles played 4 games over the last two weeks and allowed one goal. They haven't played that many quality opponents, but they are handling the ones they've had. Their best opportunity for a top seeding at state comes when they host Breck on Thursday.
Mon 1/4 @ Willmar, Tues 1/5 @ Brainerd, Thurs 1/7 vs Breck, Tues 1/12 vs River Lakes

4. [4] Mahtomedi (9-3)
The Zephyrs lost in OT to a team who beat Breck in regulation, and while they have 3 losses, they still have no Class A losses. With 3 conferences games in the next two weeks, they probably won't add any Class A losses but can they beat St Thomas on the road?
Thurs 1/7 @ St Thomas Academy, Sat 1/9 @ Tartan, Thurs 1/14 vs South St Paul

5. [6] St Paul Academy (9-3)
The Spartans won their holiday tournament beating a top 10 WI team as well as a good St Louis Park team. SPA has one game left on their schedule where they should be challenged, which is their away game at Breck. They're going to need to beat Breck if they want to top their 21-4 regular season record from last season.
Thurs 1/7 vs Minnehaha Academy, Sat 1/9 vs Mankato West, Thurs 1/14 vs Blake, Sat 1/16 @ Lourdes

6. [5] Delano (8-4)
The Tigers lost to Hermantown and Bemidji in a span of 3 days. They are clearly not a top 2 team in the state, but that's all we know at this point. With mainly Wright County games left on their schedule, they play Holy Family twice and if they lose to anywhere else the only place they'll go is down.
Tues 1/5 vs Holy Family, Thurs 1/7 @ Waconia, Sat 1/9 vs Lourdes, Tues 1/12 vs New Prague, Sat 1/16 vs Orono

7. [7] Hibbing (11-0)
The Bluejackets won in Greenway then shut out two opponents at home. Of their remaining 14 games, 9 of them are at home. Every game over the next two weeks is against an opponent they cannot overlook. Will they still be undefeated for the next rankings?
Tues 1/5 vs Cloquet, Thurs 1/7 @ Virginia, Tues 1/12 @ Superior, Thurs 1/14 vs Grand Rapids

8. [8] East Grand Forks (8-4-1)
The Green Wave opted to not play in a holiday tournament and lost their one game over the last 2 weeks across the border. With two 8A games and two 8AA games over the next two weeks, they should be expected to win at least 2 of the 4, maybe more.
Tues 1/5 @ Warroad, Sat 1/9 vs Lake of the Woods, Tues 1/12 @ Roseau, Thurs 1/14 @ Bemidji

9. [9] Thief River Falls (9-3)
The Prowlers could very well be deserving of a higher rank as their only Class A losses have been to Breck and Hermantown, both 4-1, on the road, but it's really hard to say as their notable wins are over Warroad, Totino and Blake. They are favored in their four games over the next two weeks; can they beat Moorhead at home?
Tues 1/5 @ Park Rapids, Thurs 1/7 vs Moorhead, Tues 1/12 @ Kittson Central, Thurs 1/14 vs Warroad

10. [10] St Cloud Cathedral (10-4)
The Crusaders have losses to the #2, #3, #5 and #8 teams and have taken care of business otherwise. With their first 22 games against Class A teams, many of them quality teams, Cathedral will be battle tested come sections.
Tues 1/5 vs Prairie Centre, Fri 1/8 @ Hermantown

11. [12] Duluth Denfeld (6-6-1)
The Hunters have lost 5-1 to Hermantown and 3-1 to Cathedral and the rest of their losses are to AA teams. They played these teams close, all but one of their other losses was close and they have a 1 goal win over a Greenway team that's having a solid season.
Mon 1/4 @ Duluth East, Thurs 1/7 vs Proctor, Sat 1/9 vs North St Paul, Thurs 1/14 @ Cloquet, Sat 1/16 @ Blake

12. [13] Greenway (12-2)
They Raiders lost a close game to Hibbing where all the goals they gave up were on the power play and followed that up by winning their holiday tournament. Penalties seem to be a big issue for this team; can they stay out of the box at stay with Hermantown at home?
Tues 1/5 @ North Shore, Thurs 1/7 vs International Falls, Tues 1/12 vs Hermantown, Fri 1/15 vs St Cloud Tech

13. [-] Totino-Grace (5-6)
Thurs 1/7 @ Spring Lake Park, Sat 1/9 @ Coon Rapids, Tues 1/12 vs Elk River, Thurs 1/14 vs Osseo, Sat 1/16 @ Champlin Park

14. [11] Sartell-St Stephen (9-4)
The Sabres got crushed by both Cathedral and Apollo last week and while 3 of their 4 losses are to ranked St Cloud teams, their other loss is to Brainerd and they have no notable wins.
Tues 1/5 vs Fergus Falls, Fri 1/8 vs Alexandria, Tues 1/12 @ Northern Lakes, Thurs 1/14 @ River Lakes

15. [14] Orono (10-3-1)
The Spartans played 4 AA teams over the last two weeks and went 3-1, included a 5-4 win over a team that Hermantown tied. With their tie and 5-4 win over New Prague, we see they aren't amazing, but they still don't have any Class A losses. Entering the Wright County part of their schedule, they are in a similar boat as Delano. With two meets with Delano and Holy Family remaining, they will be ready come sections.
Tues 1/5 vs Mound Westonka, Tues 1/12 vs Waconia, Sat 1/16 @ Delano




Blake (4-7)
Tues 1/5 vs Chanhassen, Thurs 1/7 vs Bloomington Kennedy, Sat 1/9 @ Minnetonka, Thurs 1/14 @ St Paul Academy, Sat 1/16 vs Denfeld

[15] Luverne (10-3)
The Cardinals
Tues 1/5 @ Fairmont, Fri 1/8 @ New Ulm, Sat 1/9 vs Willmar, Thurs 1/14 vs Redwood Valley, Sat 1/16 @ Waseca

Little Falls (11-2)
Tues 1/5 @ Princeton, Fri 1/8 @ Monticello, Tues 1/12 @ Wadena-Deer Creek, Thurs 1/14 @ St Cloud Tech

North Shore (11-1)
Tues 1/5 vs Greenway, Thurs 1/7 @ Eveleth-Gilbert, Tues 1/12 @ Virginia, Thurs 1/14 @ International Falls

It seems as if this year Hermantown isn't quite living up to the expectations some had for them going into this year. Clearly they're a top team, but they aren't as dominant as i thought they were going to be.

Breck vs Apollo this week should be a great game. Breck will certainly be looking for revenge after last years heartbreaking OT loss to them in the Tourney. Breck beat Cathedral 9-1, Apollo beat them 4-1. It should be a close game. Apollo isn't as battle tested as Breck is and it might turn out to hurt them as Breck plays a much more difficult schedule. If Apollo pulls out a win can the pass up Hermantown for the number one spot?

I'm not 100% sure how I feel about Hibbing. They're undefeated and shouldn't be taken lightly, yet they don't have any notable victories. Brainerd is maybe their best win, which isn't much. We won't get to see them play Hermantown until their very last game of the season so it's hard to project where they'll be. They've got a very good freshman goaltender in Ullan but are his numbers only good because of the teams they've played?

Greenway is off to a great start this year. No wins against quality opponents, with close games against Hibbing and Denfeld. They'll get a real tough test when they take on Hermantown coming up.

Duluth Denfeld is too high IMO. They have a great goaltender in Alander, but outside of him they have little. Although they have only lost 2 games to Class A opponents, they still need to get more wins vs the AA teams they play, which they haven't done.

1. Hermantown
2. Breck
3. Mahtomedi
4. Hibbing
5. Apollo
6. SPA
7. Delano
8. EGF
9. TRF
10. Cathedral

I don't think it's a travesty to have Hibbing ranked worse than #4, but I would put them there based on their overall resume compared to Apollo, SPA, and Delano.

Both Delano and Apollo's best win is against Cathedral, who you have ranked #10, and Hibbing's 2nd best win is against EGF, who you have ranked #8. As far as SPA, they have a bad loss (Kennedy), something Hibbing doesn't have. I would put Hibbing's best wins (Brainerd, EGF, Greenway, Roseau) above the best wins of these three other teams.

And as far as Ullan, I agree the weaker schedule has helped his numbers, but he did shut out one of the highest scoring teams in the state in Brainerd, a team that put 4 goals up on Bemidji and 5 on Grand Rapids. He gave up 7 goals total in the games to Brainerd, EGF, Greenway, and Roseau, so his GAA is still below 2 against the best teams Hibbing has played. This is Class A hockey, so very few teams are going to have the ridiculous schedules that Hermantown and Breck have, so to set that as the standard is a bit misleading.

Either way, I think Hibbing is in the top 7 mix no matter what, and they have some tough games coming up which will give them a chance to make a statement.

CornerBar wrote:I'm not 100% sure how I feel about Hibbing. They're undefeated and shouldn't be taken lightly, yet they don't have any notable victories. Brainerd is maybe their best win, which isn't much. We won't get to see them play Hermantown until their very last game of the season so it's hard to project where they'll be. They've got a very good freshman goaltender in Ullan but are his numbers only good because of the teams they've played?

Duluth Denfeld is too high IMO. They have a great goaltender in Alander, but outside of him they have little. Although they have only lost 2 games to Class A opponents, they still need to get more wins vs the AA teams they play, which they haven't done.

Hibbing was fine where they were at #7 two weeks ago and since then their only notable win is against someone outside of the top 10 and no one ahead of them has done anything [in my opinion] to warrant being dropped, which was an unfortunate part of some of the holiday tournaments. Hibbing has done nothing yet to prove they are better than anyone ahead of them. I would love to see them undefeated two weeks from now.

Where would you put Denfeld? They beat Greenway 4-3 and have no real terrible losses.

HShockeywatcher wrote:

CornerBar wrote:I'm not 100% sure how I feel about Hibbing. They're undefeated and shouldn't be taken lightly, yet they don't have any notable victories. Brainerd is maybe their best win, which isn't much. We won't get to see them play Hermantown until their very last game of the season so it's hard to project where they'll be. They've got a very good freshman goaltender in Ullan but are his numbers only good because of the teams they've played?

Duluth Denfeld is too high IMO. They have a great goaltender in Alander, but outside of him they have little. Although they have only lost 2 games to Class A opponents, they still need to get more wins vs the AA teams they play, which they haven't done.

Hibbing was fine where they were at #7 two weeks ago and since then their only notable win is against someone outside of the top 10 and no one ahead of them has done anything [in my opinion] to warrant being dropped, which was an unfortunate part of some of the holiday tournaments. Hibbing has done nothing yet to prove they are better than anyone ahead of them. I would love to see them undefeated two weeks from now.


Where would you put Denfeld? They beat Greenway 4-3 and have no real terrible losses.

Do you think Delanos resume is better than Hibbing's so far? If so, why?

rainier wrote:Do you think Delanos resume is better than Hibbing's so far? If so, why?

Your question doesn't really address how my rankings are made. I do not reevaluate the entire schedule of every team every week. It's mostly about what they've done recently, where they were before and how they're playing. Was Team A ahead of Team B last week? Yes. Did they do anything to show they are likely worse than Team B or did Team B do anything to show they are likely better than Team A? No, Team A is going to still be ahead of Team B.

Yes.

Hibbing has won 9 games you'd expect a top 10 Class A team to win and they have beaten EGF 3-2 on the road and Greenway 4-2 on the road.

Delano has scored 7 on Breck, beat a good St Louis Park team 5-2 on the road (SPA won 1-0), destroyed a Kennedy team who upset SPA, beat Cathedral on the road while scoring 9, and kept it within 3 with Hermantown on the road.

SPA beat EGF 7-3, Luverne 5-4, got upset by Kennedy, lost to Mahtomedi close and got crushed by Breck.

Hmmm, I think I just convinced myself Delano should be ahead of SPA...

Hibbing is in a similar situation to Hermantown's virtually every year; they start off ranked #1, don't play top teams, don't dominate their opponents but still win and don't have a lot of common opponents with others, but as the season goes on they prove they should be ranked high.
#18 Houston crushed #9 Florida State the other day. Why, at 12-1, were they ranked 11 spots below the next lowest ranked team with only 1 loss? Unfortunately, their schedule. Period, end of story.


It's entirely possible Hibbing is the best team in Class A. They have the schedule to be ranked #1 going into sections and state. They also have the schedule to prove the EGF game was a fluke. It's difficult to know at this point because of who they've played.

Personally, I'm hoping they win their next 9 games, tie Apollo, win out, and we have a Hibbing/Apollo state final. But there's a lot of games not played on paper between now and then...

HShockeywatcher wrote:

CornerBar wrote:I'm not 100% sure how I feel about Hibbing. They're undefeated and shouldn't be taken lightly, yet they don't have any notable victories. Brainerd is maybe their best win, which isn't much. We won't get to see them play Hermantown until their very last game of the season so it's hard to project where they'll be. They've got a very good freshman goaltender in Ullan but are his numbers only good because of the teams they've played?

Duluth Denfeld is too high IMO. They have a great goaltender in Alander, but outside of him they have little. Although they have only lost 2 games to Class A opponents, they still need to get more wins vs the AA teams they play, which they haven't done.

Hibbing was fine where they were at #7 two weeks ago and since then their only notable win is against someone outside of the top 10 and no one ahead of them has done anything [in my opinion] to warrant being dropped, which was an unfortunate part of some of the holiday tournaments. Hibbing has done nothing yet to prove they are better than anyone ahead of them. I would love to see them undefeated two weeks from now.

Where would you put Denfeld? They beat Greenway 4-3 and have no real terrible losses.

I disagree with the bolded statement above.

Hibbing has wins vs your #8 and #12 teams, and against an AA team in Brainerd that Karl has in his top 20.

Delano's only win against a team you have ranked is #10 Cathedral, and they also lost to a team that a top 10 A team shouldn't lose to (Buffalo). And their losses to Hermantown and Bemidji were a combined score of 11-5 while being outshot 78-41. Not exactly competitive.

I think there are also arguments that Hibbing should be ahead of Apollo (their best win was also against Cathedral), and SPA (terrible loss to Kennedy), but I think Hibbing has an obviously better resume than Delano.

Of course you rank them according to your opinion, but I don't think the evidence supports having Delano ahead of Hibbing.

Rankings are subjective and not a predictor of future results.

Hshockeywatcher brings up an interesting point, Iowa was ranked #3 in the country, Michigan St., #5, Ohio State was lower following thier loss to Michigan State. Houston was #19, yet by all evidence Houston would have favored over both Iowa and Michigan State but not Ohio State, (with Gary Ward Jr) hypothetical odds showed as much. All that shows polls are based on what has happend, not what will happen.

Hibbing may be a top 5 or top 3 team but based on what has happend it is hard to put them there now. In high school hockey Hibbing and Lakeville North are probably the hardest teams to rank in their respective classes, both may be better and likely are than their rankings but it is hard to justify putting them higher than they are now.

What about North Sore? 11-1. Not a bad season start. Kids don't make the schedule they just show up and play the other team on the ice. Another fact in this is you cannot hold 1 game as a benchmark but a body of work. Very similar to the NCAA football rankings. It is not a ranking of week over week because you have nothing to go on early ib the year. In fact it makes no sense to even put out a ranking until jan 1. I challenge all of you to put away all preconceived notions and do a ranking today that is not tied to preseason or where you thought they stood before Christmas and actually look at body of work, strength of schedule is not nearly as important as how a team is playing.

Tuesday, Jan 5 relevant scores

3 East Grand Forks
0 Warroad


3 Hibbing
2 Cloquet


5 Hermantown
0 Grand Rapids


3 Fergus Falls
2 Sartell-St Stephen


3 Little Falls
0 Princeton

Little Falls has allowed 7 goals in the last 10 games.
They lost in Virginia but they are getting it done with their schedule.

4 Holy Family
3 Delano


6 Greenway
0 North Shore


7 Mound Westonka
2 Orono


2 Apollo
0 Brainerd
The competition hasn't been great but Apollo has allowed 1 goal in the last 6 games. They host Breck on Thursday...

Hockey Hub has EGF putting 35 shots on goal in the first period. Yikes!

Grand Rapids seems to be over rated is my take. Hermantown is good and nobody will dispute that but to nearly put running time on GR says more about GR.

To rainier......ok Hibbing deserves a top 3

Is that Orono score correct? Mound is not a good team at all; losing 7-2 to them is crazy for a team some considered to be top ten material.

goldy313 wrote:Grand Rapids seems to be over rated is my take. Hermantown is good and nobody will dispute that but to nearly put running time on GR says more about GR.

To rainier......ok Hibbing deserves a top 3

Whoa, whoa, whoa,

I have Hibbing at #4 in my rankings.

I'll hold off on any #3 talk until I see how they fare vs Rapids next Thursday.

I expect your Hibbing to beat Rapids. Rapids continues on their downward spiral. If East takes them to the woodshed on Thusday, their season is pretty much over.

greenway1969 wrote:I expect your Hibbing to beat Rapids. Rapids continues on their downward spiral. If East takes them to the woodshed on Thusday, their season is pretty much over.

What spiral? Looks to me like they're having a good season. They have 4 losses before tonight, all to top 10 AA teams, and then got beaten by a good Hermantown team.

rainier wrote:

goldy313 wrote:Grand Rapids seems to be over rated is my take. Hermantown is good and nobody will dispute that but to nearly put running time on GR says more about GR.

To rainier......ok Hibbing deserves a top 3

Whoa, whoa, whoa,

I have Hibbing at #4 in my rankings.

I'll hold off on any #3 talk until I see how they fare vs Rapids next Thursday.

I would agree to keep them at #4 for now... HErmantown and Breck are #1 and #2 but for those who haven't seen Apollo play yet, they are the real deal..

HShockeywatcher wrote:Tuesday, Jan 5 relevant scores

3 East Grand Forks
0 Warroad


3 Hibbing
2 Cloquet


5 Hermantown
0 Grand Rapids


3 Fergus Falls
2 Sartell-St Stephen


3 Little Falls
2 Princeton

Little Falls has allowed 7 goals in the last 10 games.
They lost in Virginia but they are getting it done with their schedule.

4 Holy Family
3 Delano


6 Greenway
0 North Shore


7 Mound Westonka
2 Orono


2 Apollo
0 Brainerd
The competition hasn't been great but Apollo has allowed 1 goal in the last 6 games. They host Breck on Thursday...

LF won 3 - 0 over Princeton. LF did not have their best D-man playing the first 4 or 5 games of the year. Since his return, they have been solid defensively and have been getting good goalie play. Their schedule has been weak, but will stiffen significantly (beginning with Princeton last night) and we will see their true colors soon.

Earlier in the year Rapids beat Minnetonka and lost to BSM and Lakeville North in overtime. Their last five games include bad losses to Eden Prairie, Elk River and Hermantown (at home). They were luck to escape with a win against Brainerd. This to me is a downward spiral. Have you seen Rapids play lately? Even Rapids fans admit this team is in trouble. They need a visit to the Wizard of Oz for a heart, a brain and some courage.

Looks like Hibbing is the class of the range this year!!! Maybe Rapids is not as talented as all the hype had them. I still believe that even with all the superstars that GR has on there roster they are over hyped as players and as a team. Obviously the people picking the Elite team have way to much Rapids bias. Peruni is the best player on the Range A or AA and its not close. Another Rapids debacle. Maybe they should come back to reality and realize they are just good players and not great. Hibbing just may walk in the GR game and give them another smack down. Then the Blue Jackets will hopefully get the respect they deserve.

hockey9011 wrote:

rainier wrote:

goldy313 wrote:Grand Rapids seems to be over rated is my take. Hermantown is good and nobody will dispute that but to nearly put running time on GR says more about GR.

To rainier......ok Hibbing deserves a top 3

Whoa, whoa, whoa,

I have Hibbing at #4 in my rankings.

I'll hold off on any #3 talk until I see how they fare vs Rapids next Thursday.

I would agree to keep them at #4 for now... HErmantown and Breck are #1 and #2 but for those who haven't seen Apollo play yet, they are the real deal..

What's funny is that I have Mahtomedi at #3, and Apollo at #5. No disrespect to Apollo, but I still think Hibbing has a better overall resume this season. Apollo's best wins are Brainerd and Cathedral, and they played Bemidji tough in a loss.

Hibbing beat EGF, Brainerd (3-0 win), Cloquet (who beat Bemidji), Greenway, and Roseau.

Apollo may very well beat Hibbing handily when these teams meet in three weeks, but looking at their respective bodies of work, I put Hibbing ahead for now.

Apollo's game vs Breck tomorrow and Hibbing's game vs Rapids next week should tell us a lot more.

Here are some recent A rankings from today and two days ago.

LPH-01/06
1 HERMANTOWN (10)
2 Breck
3 St. Cloud Apollo
4 Hibbing/Chisholm
5 Mahtomedi
6 Delano/Rockford
7 St. Paul Academy
8 Thief River Falls
9 St. Cloud Cathedral
10 East Grand Forks
11 Greenway
12 St. Paul Johnson
13 Luverne
14 Orono
15 Sartell-St. Stephen
16 Totino-Grace
17 Blake
18 Duluth Denfeld
19 Princeton
20 Bloomington Kennedy

MN Hockey Mag-01/04
1. Hermantown
2. Apollo
3. Hibbing
4. Breck
5. Mahtomedi
6. SPA
7. Delano
8. TRF
9. EGF
10. Greenway
Receiving votes: Cathedral, Sartell, Orono, Little Falls, SP Johnson, North Shore, Princeton

Myhockeyrankings-01/06
1. Breck
2. Hermantown
3. Hibbing
4. Delano
5. Apollo
6. TRF
7. Greenway
8. Mahtomedi
9. EGF
10. SPA
11. Cathedral
12. Blake
13. Totino
14. Orono
15. Crookston
16. Sartell
17. SP Johnson
18. Kennedy
19. LDC
20. Little Falls

1. Hermantown
2. Apollo
3. Hibbing
4. Breck
5. Mahtomedi
6. TRF
7. EGF
8. SPA
9. Greenway
10. St Cloud Cathedral

oh no!!!! Rainer will be bummed and disagree. It appears Greenway is ranked above his beloved denfeld hunters in every poll. I will stand by my sec rankings and keep Greenway at 3 and Denfeld at 4

howardst wrote:oh no!!!! Rainer will be bummed and disagree. It appears Greenway is ranked above his beloved denfeld hunters in every poll. I will stand by my sec rankings and keep Greenway at 3 and Denfeld at 4

Maybe you had one too many margaritas in Mexico, but if you remember the last 7A rankings I did, I put your favorite team at #3 and Denfeld at #4.

Sure was nice seeing the 3rd line get a big goal last night against a AA team that beat both East and Bemidji. Did you see it, or were you in Two Harbors?