HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

Calm before the storm? The top eight didn’t move this past week, but with some struggles in the 11-15 range, we may be separating the contenders from the pretenders. Or we’re just warming up for some playoff carnage. Your rankings, with one week to go until sections:

1. Eden Prairie (17-4-2)
-Flattened Blaine and kept it going from there; Benilde kept things interesting for a little while before reality set in. They have now won 11 straight since the start of 2017, and for all the talk of parity this season, it’s worth asking if this team might just run away with things. They’ll look to clinch the Lake this week and hit the playoffs with some serious momentum.
This week: Thurs at Wayzata, Sat vs. #11 Minnetonka

2. Holy Family (19-3-1)
-Delano put up a better fight the second time around, but the Fire kept burning along, and took care of Prior Lake in a game with some section meaning, too. They’re looking very tight defensively, and can erase much of any doubt over this ranking with a win over Stillwater on the season’s final day.
This week: Tues at Mound-Westonka, Sat vs. #7 Stillwater

3. Edina (16-6-1)
-Fought off a stiff challenge from Minnetonka in their only action this past week; they continue to solidify a top-2 seed at a State Tournament they are very likely to make. Things are looking good in Hornet-land, and on paper they look good again this week, though that Wayzata game once again is worth watching for a preview of a possible section rematch.
This week: Thurs at Hopkins, Sat vs. Wayzata

4. Elk River (20-4)
-Marauded past some weaker opponents, and with their chief 7AA rivals also hitting the skids, things are looking up in Elktown as well. They wrap things up against a Maple Grove team that gave them a one-goal game the first time around.
This week: Tues vs. #9 Maple Grove

5. Lakeville North (17-4-2)
-The Panthers made a statement with a convincing win over Lakeville South, and are now in firm control of 1AA. Burnsville bump aside, they’ve been closing well, and face one last quality team this week in Prior Lake.
This week: Thurs at Eagan, Sat vs. Prior Lake

6. St. Thomas Academy (18-4-1)
-Two decisive wins over teams that had beaten them earlier have the Cadets riding high as they move toward sections. The offense is rolling, and as long as they don’t make mistakes on the back end, they’re sitting very pretty in 3AA; that early Lakeville North loss is really the only thing holding them out of the top 5. Shouldn’t have any trouble against a couple of fellow private schools this coming week.
This week: Tues vs. Benilde-St. Margaret’s, Thurs at Holy Angels

7. Stillwater (19-3)
-Continue to plug along against weaker competition. They have a pretty big final week, though: Cretin isn’t a pushover, revenge against White Bear is critical if they want the top seed in 4AA, and they pretty much need to beat Holy Family to get a top 3 seed.
This week: Tues vs. Cretin-Derham Hall, Thurs vs. White Bear Lake, Sat at #2 Holy Family

8. Centennial (18-4-1)
-The White Bear tie continued a string of results that weighed the Cougars down a little, but they got back in the saddle against the weaker Northwest Suburban teams. It should be more of that this coming week.
This week: Thurs at Totino-Grace, Sat vs. Spring Lake Park

9. Maple Grove (16-5)
-Flashed some finishing skill against Duluth East, and have a decent formula going to knock someone off in sections so long as they don’t get too pinned down in their own zone. Have a chance to make one final regular season statement against Elk River.
This week: Tues at #4 Elk River, Thurs at Spring Lake Park, Sat vs. Irondale

10. Moorhead (17-3-3)
-The Taters had a pretty good week with, 4-0 shutouts of East Grand Forks and shorthanded Grand Rapids sandwiching a narrow escape against Cloquet that raised an eyebrow or two. This team remains a bit of a question mark, but they could leave no doubt about their top 10 standing with wins over surging Bemidji and Hill-Murray this week.
This week: Tues at #12 Bemidji, Sat vs. #14 Hill-Murray

11. Minnetonka (13-10)
-With a win over Wayzata and a loss to Edina the week went more or less as expected, but the Skippers move up as some of the other teams vying for this spot moved down. A finale against Eden Prairie could yet create some 2AA intrigue.
This week: Thurs vs. Orono, Sat at #1 Eden Prairie

12. Bemidji (13-9-1)
-This is one of those cases where you throw out the record and believe the recent results: Bemidji has rattled off convincing wins against two 8AA rivals plus Grand Rapids, and took an elite Hermantown team to overtime. Now, their most meaningful test: can they beat Moorhead and make a play for the top seed in the section?
This week: Tues vs. #10 Moorhead, Fri at Thief River Falls

13. Duluth East (16-7-1)
-Rolled against teams they should beat, but crumbled against Maple Grove, and continue to hover on the lower fringes of the top 15. They wrap things up against Lakeville South on Tuesday; while small in the grand scheme of things, they could use a good result against a respectable Metro opponent as they head toward sections.
This week: Tues at Lakeville South

14. Hill-Murray (15-4-4)
-We have a collection of teams toward the bottom of the top 15 that just aren’t playing especially well right now, and the Pioneers are one of them, with just two wins in their past six. The week ahead will be telling; they should beat Marshall, but stranger things have happened, and Moorhead remains a bit of a mystery given their lack of recent Metro competition and very scattered results.
This week: Wed vs. Duluth Marshall, Sat at #10 Moorhead

15. Grand Rapids (16-6-1)
-Ugly week for the Thunderhawks, who got pounded by Bemidji and Moorhead. As long as they finish off Cloquet this week, though, they should still be the 3-seed in 7AA, and we know what the talent here is capable of. Can it all come together?
This week: Tues at Cloquet, Thurs vs. Duluth Denfeld

The Next Ten

White Bear Lake (13-6-4)
-After a little lull recently, the Bears are trending up again, with a tie against Centennial and a convincing win over a Woodbury team that had beaten them the first time around. A second win over Stillwater could allow them to poach a higher seed in 4AA.

Prior Lake (14-9)
-Put up a respectable fight against Holy Family before falling; in another section they might be a nice semifinal upset threat, but in 2AA they’ll face a steep hill. Have one last chance to do a little damage when they visit Lakeville North on Saturday.

St. Michael-Albertville (17-4-2)
-This team has shown a remarkable steadiness in the rankings all season long; I don’t think they’ve gone higher than 16 or lower than 18. Should be able to take care of business in Farmington and Rogers to wrap things up.

Lakeville South (13-8-1)
-Got dumped by Lakeville North, leaving them as a 2-seed and looking more like an outside upset shot than a contender running neck-and-neck. Still, they basically have three weeks to build up to another rematch. Duluth East this week gives them one last chance to prove something.

Burnsville (14-8-1)
-Did the Blaze peak too soon? A loss to Eastview muddies 3AA some, and they’re looking less and less like a serious threat to St. Thomas. Should get back on the winning side of things with finales against Rosemount and Shakopee.

Blaine (12-10-1)
-Lost a lopsided decision to Eden Prairie, and took care of everyone else, which doesn’t change much here. Should roll on through their final week and into the 5AA playoffs.

Cretin-Derham Hall (16-6)
-The Raiders continue to beat teams they should beat. One last difficult game this week against Stillwater.

Wayzata (7-15-1)
-Couldn’t really build on their recent progress in a loss to Minnetonka. They have a golden opportunity to prove something in this final week, with Eden Prairie and Edina on the schedule.

Cloquet (13-8-2)
-Got run over by Duluth East, but bounced back with a solid losing effort against Moorhead and a narrow win over Roseau, which shows they belong in this 20-25 range. Will need to find another level to run with 7AA’s big three, though, and have a chance at it when they host Grand Rapids on Tuesday.

Roseau (15-9)
-Lost to East Grand Forks and Cloquet; both were competitive and that Bemidji doesn’t look nearly as bad in retrospect, but they’re still sliding back some. They close against Crookston.

1AA
5 Lakeville North
19 Lakeville South
Rochester Century
Owatonna
-Lakeville North erased any lingering doubt over the top seed here. Century probably claimed the 3-seed with a win over Owatonna last week, dropping the Huskies to the 4-spot. The computers would tell you Farmington has an argument to be top-4, but with a weak record and a loss to Owatonna, they’ll probably have a difficult case at the seeding meeting.

2AA
1 Eden Prairie
2 Holy Family
11 Minnetonka
17 Prior Lake
-I think this is final regardless of what happens in the second Eden Prairie-Minnetonka game, but if the Skippers win, Holy Family will at least have an argument for the top seed. Tonka won’t go higher than #3, even with a win over Eden Prairie. It’s all pretty clear from there.

3AA
6 St. Thomas Academy
20 Burnsville
Eastview
-Eastview did beat Burnsville this past week, but with no other section blemishes for the Blaze and the Lightning losing to Apple Valley just a week ago, I don’t think that changes anything. Either way, a rematch is probably on tap in the section semis. With a split against Eastview and wins over everyone below them, Eagan makes the most sense for #4; Jefferson could conceivably make a case since they’ve lost to the top three but beaten everyone they’ve played below, but their overall record counts against them. Either way, those two probably set up for the 4/5 game.

4AA
7 Stillwater
14 Hill-Murray
16 White Bear Lake
Tartan/Woodbury
-With Hill losing and Stillwater looking less-than-great, this one has gotten a little more interesting. If the Ponies win their rematch with White Bear this week, the top seed is theirs, and the order listed here holds. If the Bears beat Stillwater again, though, White Bear could have a viable case for the top seed; an interesting argument then ensues over whether Hill’s tie with White Bear should get more weight than Stillwater’s better overall season. That scenario is complicated, to say the least. Woodbury and Tartan play this coming Saturday, and will likely turn around and play again in the 4/5 game the following week, with the winner of this week’s tilt getting the home jerseys.

5AA
8 Centennial
9 Maple Grove
21 Blaine
Champlin Park
-Seeding here was settled a while ago, and remains unchanged. Still, it has a habit of delivering surprises in the playoffs, which may feed in to its awful record at State over the past decade. Anoka has a mild argument for #4 after tying Champlin this past week, but I’d still give it to the Rebels based on their record.

6AA
3 Edina
22 Cretin-Derham Hall
Benilde-St. Margaret’s
23 Wayzata
-Despite the Wayzata loss, I think Cretin has done enough to be the 2-seed, unless the Trojans somehow top Edina this week, in which case the Raiders slide to #3. This week’s St. Louis Park-Benilde game actually has some real implications; if Benilde wins, they can make a decent claim to the 3-seed; if the Orioles pull it out, Benilde will drop to #5, and St. Louis Park could conceivably have a case for #3. No matter what, it’s a mess.

7AA
4 Elk River
13 Duluth East
15 Grand Rapids
24 Cloquet
-Elk River clinched the top seed with a win over East, and is looking pretty good right now with East and Rapids hitting bumps late in the season. The only way this could change is if Cloquet beats Grand Rapids; they’d have the later win and a better record in the section if they did. Recent play suggests the Jacks have a shot, but the first meeting between the two would suggest otherwise.

8AA
10 Moorhead
12 Bemidji
18 St. Michael-Albertville
25 Roseau
-Moorhead’s record in the section has enough blemishes that if Bemidji wins on Tuesday, I’d argue the suddenly surging Lumberjacks deserve the top seed. The Spuds can go no lower than #2, with STMA and Roseau next in line. If Bemidji loses this one, it gets complicated, as they have those two recent wins over the Knights and Rams, but two losses in three games against Brainerd. My instinct is still to go with Bemidji at #2, but I don’t object to them being much lower, either. No matter what, this still has the makings of a 1-8 slugfest.

If EP reaches State for the 3rd year in a row...chances are they win it - end of story. However, Holy Family, with an outstanding goalie, and IMO the best top 4 D (top 2 pairings ) of any team in the State, playing on the bandysized rink known as Mariucci, and being a strong puck possession team, has a more than decent chance of pulling off the upset in a low scoring game. If HF takes down Stillwater next Saturday, EP & HF will finish the regular season ranked 1 & 2, which adds even more spice to this pending clash!

hockey59 wrote:If EP reaches State for the 3rd year in a row...chances are they win it - end of story. However, Holy Family, with an outstanding goalie, and IMO the best top 4 D (top 2 pairings ) of any team in the State, playing on the bandysized rink known as Mariucci, and being a strong puck possession team, has a more than decent chance of pulling off the upset in a low scoring game. If HF takes down Stillwater next Saturday, EP & HF will finish the regular season ranked 1 & 2, which adds even more spice to this pending clash!

Yep. It's not too crazy to think that the biggest challenge EP will face on its road to a potential title could come in the 2AA final. That Holy Family D corps is awfully good, and also pretty mobile; EP, meanwhile, has succeeded by becoming a more grinding team. Most of the time that's a good thing, but at Mariucci? We'll see. On the flip side, giving Casey more space can only be a good thing. That matchup, if it happens, should be a great one...especially given the history there.

The bigger sheet at Mariucci does give Mittelstadt an advantage. In the 2AA final last year vs. Prior Lake, he had two goals to lead EP to a 4-2 victory. Granted, this year's Holy Family team is not Prior Lake from last year, but if Casey is given space, he'll be productive.

Cart before the horse but I will play along

EP versus HF

Offense - EP big advantage
Defense - Slight edge to EP (#4)
Special Teams - EP big advantage
Coaching - EP big advantage
Goaltending - Slight edge to HF

On paper EP should win but anything can happen in one game...I say 5-1 EP

Offense--edge EP
Defense: edge HF
Goaltending: edge HF
Coaching: toss up. Saying a Lee Smith coached team has a big coaching advantage is a joke--Lee smith wouldn't have advantage over any of Karl's top eight teams. Only a toss up because significant risk that Rahn gets bench penalty

Special Teams EP. But goalie can easily neutralize so not a big one

GB


EP has a huge advantage over HF in terms of offense and special teams. Not just an "edge" I hope you'll agree on that

I've only watched a few HF games this year. Their defense is good and may be a tad thicker than EP but in 1 game I'll take #4 for EP to make a big play or two

Special teams...Not a big one? You can't be serious? The game is all about special teams today. Huge part of the game. And the depth EP has over HF is big. They can roll 3 lines.

As far as coaching here was my logic

If you follow the adjustments EP has made this year you have to give Smith credit. Experience is and will be an advantage for EP.

The only "big" game the HF family coach has ever been in was last years sectional final and look back at his actions if you don't think it comes into play.

With that, it's HS hockey and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if HF made it a game and even won. But if I was a betting man, my money is on the group of kids from EP.

YIPH,

We will probably agree to disagree. "Huge" means EP vs Waconia in skill. Edge means one team is better than other. I will agree EP's offense has an edge over HF's (CM). I've seen HF play good AA teams (top teams--Edina, L North) and have seen how many scoring chances they are getting and their offense isn't chopped liver. I should put in "slight edge" for offense. As to Special Teams, Special teams are five or four guys---not three lines. I think you mean special teams as pp and pk. Again, slight edge to EP (CM). Although HF's pp and pk numbers are damn good.

As far as coaching, I've seen Smith be outcoached in the biggest game of all--State Championship. I've seen him be out coached in section games and Lake Conference games. Again, his talent (CM) may solve for this like Leddy and Rau did. He's not a Bill Belichek. Trust me I've seen probably 30 of his games over the past five years and he does some goofy things when the game is on the line. That being said, I do like the adjustments he has made as the season has gone on, however I think we are talking one game and that is where I don't see an edge from Smith. Yes, Rahn hasn't won a big game so just on that, I can see how you would give edge to Smith. I just can't do that after seeing so many dumb in game decisions he has made in big games in the past. All said, the real "proof in the pudding" if betting was allowed on this game, I would take EP straight up. If I could get any type of odds I would take HF. GB

GoldenBear wrote:YIPH,

We will probably agree to disagree. "Huge" means EP vs Waconia in skill. Edge means one team is better than other. I will agree EP's offense has an edge over HF's (CM). I've seen HF play good AA teams (top teams--Edina, L North) and have seen how many scoring chances they are getting and their offense isn't chopped liver. I should put in "slight edge" for offense. As to Special Teams, Special teams are five or four guys---not three lines. I think you mean special teams as pp and pk. Again, slight edge to EP (CM). Although HF's pp and pk numbers are damn good.

As far as coaching, I've seen Smith be outcoached in the biggest game of all--State Championship. I've seen him be out coached in section games and Lake Conference games. Again, his talent (CM) may solve for this like Leddy and Rau did. He's not a Bill Belichek. Trust me I've seen probably 30 of his games over the past five years and he does some goofy things when the game is on the line. That being said, I do like the adjustments he has made as the season has gone on, however I think we are talking one game and that is where I don't see an edge from Smith. Yes, Rahn hasn't won a big game so just on that, I can see how you would give edge to Smith. I just can't do that after seeing so many dumb in game decisions he has made in big games in the past. All said, the real "proof in the pudding" if betting was allowed on this game, I would take EP straight up. If I could get any type of odds I would take HF. GB

I agree with GoldenBear. Smith is nothing but a glorified cheerleader. The brains behind the operation is Steve Olinger. Period. End of argument. There are so many intangibles - but EP wins more so on the hearts and drive of the kids - not so much from the Coaching from Smith. They have the ability to roll three lines and be smart about it. But if push comes to shove - Smith's answer will be to overwork Casey and gamble that he will have enough gas in the tank to finish....

Putting to rest Holy Family's lack of strength of schedule.

The Fire are currently 10-3-1 against all the team's Karl mentions and could add another win against Stillwater Saturday.

Eden Prairie is currently 11-4-2 and has Tonka and Wayzata still. Not sure what the other teams records are against the team's Karl mentions but I'm pretty sure the rest aren't as good as these two. Nuff said.

Offense - edge to Ep
Defense - edge to HF
Goaltending - even
Special Teams - even
Coaching - edge to Ep; Coach Smith has 2 state titles, 3 championship game appearances and several section final appearances vs. Coach Rahn with a few section semifinal appearances (2?)

If I had to pick, I would go Ep by a goal on the big sheet. Would I be surprised if HF beats Ep, not al all.

HockeyonFire wrote:Putting to rest Holy Family's lack of strength of schedule.

The Fire are currently 10-3-1 against all the team's Karl mentions and could add another win against Stillwater Saturday.

Eden Prairie is currently 11-4-2 and has Tonka and Wayzata still. Not sure what the other teams records are against the team's Karl mentions but I'm pretty sure the rest aren't as good as these two. Nuff said.

Strength of schedule doesn't refer to a team's wins and losses but the teams they play day in and day out. HF plays in a class A conference and EP plays in the Lake.

SquirtC'00 wrote:

HockeyonFire wrote:Putting to rest Holy Family's lack of strength of schedule.

The Fire are currently 10-3-1 against all the team's Karl mentions and could add another win against Stillwater Saturday.

Eden Prairie is currently 11-4-2 and has Tonka and Wayzata still. Not sure what the other teams records are against the team's Karl mentions but I'm pretty sure the rest aren't as good as these two. Nuff said.

Strength of schedule doesn't refer to a team's wins and losses but the teams they play day in and day out. HF plays in a class A conference and EP plays in the Lake.

Wright County is 6-1 this year head-to-head against the MIGHTY LAKE
Orono win at Tonka thursday makes this 7-1

Puck Daddy

Your response calling Smith a glorified cheerleader is insulting to anyone who's ever coached the game and you should be embarrassed for making such a stupid comment

I don't have the time nor the energy to explain to someone like yourself on what goes on behind the scenes with coaching at that level. Hats off to Smith for 20+ years and over 400 wins.

I'm thinking your kid was either cut by him or isn't get the playing time you think he deserves. Either way, Smith deserves kudos from everyone in the Minnesota hockey community for the countless hours he has dedicated to high school hockey.

Oh and one more thing. I don't know Olinger at all but from what I heard he's as good as they come and I'll pretty sure he would get a good laugh at your comments.

yesiplayedhockey wrote:Puck Daddy

Your response calling Smith a glorified cheerleader is insulting to anyone who's ever coached the game and you should be embarrassed for making such a stupid comment

I don't have the time nor the energy to explain to someone like yourself on what goes on behind the scenes with coaching at that level. Hats off to Smith for 20+ years and over 400 wins.

I'm thinking your kid was either cut by him or isn't get the playing time you think he deserves. Either way, Smith deserves kudos from everyone in the Minnesota hockey community for the countless hours he has dedicated to high school hockey.

Oh and one more thing. I don't know Olinger at all but from what I heard he's as good as they come and I'll pretty sure he would get a good laugh at your comments.

I'm not weighing in here one way or the other, but I do have a question. Is Smith a teacher protected by contract? I'm aware the wording of my question is loaded, but many Twin Cities schools have the this issue.

He is a teacher, so he is covered by the contract, for the teaching part. Extracurricular contacts are only year to year and you can be dismissed with no due process, I believe.

mulefarm wrote:He is a teacher, so he is covered by the contract, for the teaching part. Extracurricular contacts are only year to year and you can be dismissed with no due process, I believe.

But, by contract, another teacher would have preference for the coaching job over a non-teacher. That seems to be standard in the cities anyway. It's not a level playing field. Again, I have no idea how good of a coach he is or isn't. It's one of the magnets to private schools. They can hire hockey coaches.

Geezuz, how long have they biatched about Sager in WB?

Goldyismoldy wrote:

mulefarm wrote:He is a teacher, so he is covered by the contract, for the teaching part. Extracurricular contacts are only year to year and you can be dismissed with no due process, I believe.

But, by contract, another teacher would have preference for the coaching job over a non-teacher. That seems to be standard in the cities anyway. It's not a level playing field. Again, I have no idea how good of a coach he is or isn't. It's one of the magnets to private schools. They can hire hockey coaches.

Geezuz, how long have they biatched about Sager in WB?

Each district may have slight variations in their contract, depending what was negotiated. In the past most districts would prefer a district teacher as a head coach, but I would say the last 10-15 yrs that has changed dramatically. I would say former players who want to get into coaching, will go the Junior route instead of the HS path. My guess is there are more non district teachers as head hockey coaches, than district teachers.

Maybe it's my 6th beer but I feel the need to opine. Association hockey relys on knowledgable dads to succeed. The most knowledgeable dads are asked to keep coaching after their kids have moved on. NPC's? I forget. It certainly wasn't me. Anyway, it's a paid position but certainly not lucrative. The longer these Non-Player Coaches hang on increases their influence on the local program. But the English teacher et al coaches the high school kids. Friction is inevitable no matter how good he is.

I apologize if I wasn't clear. I admire Smith a ton for the time he puts it to teach our kids life lessons. He is significantly underpaid for being a parent to hundreds of kids. Coaches that devote their time ---many hours -- to be with our kids our an asset to our society. My point was about his coaching ability--- which isn't bad. But I have concerns about how he will
Do in a big game. One game winner take all. Even if he loses that game I wrestle the him a ton for what he does for our kids. GB

Horsesh&'$. Grammar. Sorry

You'd have to be from Proctor to think the motives of the coaches aren't in what they think aren't in the best interest of the kids. Who else would be that cynical?

GISMoldy. Huh? Is your last point directed at my response? If so have two more beers and go to bed and read this thread tomorrow. I hope you make it home safely
GB

yesiplayedhockey wrote:Puck Daddy

Your response calling Smith a glorified cheerleader is insulting to anyone who's ever coached the game and you should be embarrassed for making such a stupid comment

I don't have the time nor the energy to explain to someone like yourself on what goes on behind the scenes with coaching at that level. Hats off to Smith for 20+ years and over 400 wins.

I'm thinking your kid was either cut by him or isn't get the playing time you think he deserves. Either way, Smith deserves kudos from everyone in the Minnesota hockey community for the countless hours he has dedicated to high school hockey.

Oh and one more thing. I don't know Olinger at all but from what I heard he's as good as they come and I'll pretty sure he would get a good laugh at your comments.

Yesiplayedhockey

Perhaps the sarcastic nature did not come across and I was too harsh. I formed an opinion based on what I have seen in the past and what I have heard from others.

I do not have a horse in the race here. I am just a huge MN Hockey Fan. I am sure Smith is a fine teacher and coach to a degree. Just that in comparison - there are better coaches of the game and life - just my humble opinion.