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We rate teams and players why not rate boys high school coaches.

warmskin wrote:We rate teams and players why not rate boys high school coaches.

Randolph at top

Gotothenetman not so much

I know it is hard to rate coaches because each team is so different. Randolph would have to be up there. But I still maintain that Tom Vannelli gets overlooked in this type of conversation. His teams play very fundamentally sound hockey and an exciting style to watch.Power Play and Penalty kill are always top rate

Players certainly benefit from who they get to play with, but I think it's harder to judge a coach because of that: who are they coaching & what is resources is he provided.

I think Lee Smith & Curt Giles are good coaches. But are they good coaches because they know hockey X's & O's & are better teachers or are they better because of the players that have come through their system? After his first season in '99-00, Giles had a run of zero state tournament appearances from '01-'06. Suddenly, Budish-Everson-Gaarder get to high school, Anders Lee transfers over from STA, and they went from '07-'15. Did he suddenly become a better coach? Or did better players make him a better coach?

Now, I think Giles IS a good coach & I thought that in '99-'00 when he took an inferior team, especially compared to Eden Prairie, and they went all the way to the Friday night semis. But I think the question for rating coaches is difficult. I think all you can do is look at records, resume, and as many factors as possible. In addition to Giles, other coaches that I've generally thought highly of include:

(fans of these coaches, I will fully disclose that I haven't watched as many games as you have, so you may not agree with my impressions)
-Lechner: Perhaps they should have won another title or two, but I've always thought HM has played with good discipline & structure
-Randolph: Especially recently, he seems to have a habit of his teams playing their best at the end of the season. Everything seems to be geared to a process throughout the season of that goal.
-Pauly: Personally, I don't like him, especially after watching how he acts towards officials on the bench. But I think he's a very good teacher of the game and getting kids to do what he wants them to do.
-Kivihalme: I think a lot more people would recognize his coaching if he hadn't had to deal with Edina for 8 years in 2AA.
-Vanelli's
-Lindqist (doesn't have the players like these others)
-Wally Chapman (when he was coaching at Breck)

Obviously you can argue that most of them have resource & player advantages.

Wade Chido does a very good job in Bemidji,

Jon Ammerman in Moorhead is a fine coach.

TRF's Tim Bergland needs a mention.

Vanellis- Not easy to recruit; an additional work load that many coaches don't have to do. That being said, their teams are always fundamentally strong and his actions on the bench help his squad.

Lechner--see above. Calm presence, no non sense. No one is bigger than the program and the past history. Isn't afraid to make un popular decisions.

Kivihalme: See Doc's post- I think a little unappreciated what he has done the past ten years at Bville.

Randolph---has team playing best at end of year. year in year out. Again no nonsense. Its his way or the highway.

Mark Loahr at Totino - First class all the way.

Maybe a little harder to rate or know but how many coaches use video like Moodle to slice and dice game file for players to watch their own individual ice time?
How many coaches do dryland during the season more than just warming up?
How many coaches talk/coach from the bench during games?
How many use the full bench vs short bench?
How many coaches actually skate with players during practice vs just watching?
How many are good communicators?
How many are involved in the community and youth programs they coach in?

In Bobby Orr's autobiography he made a comment that most coaches
should n't be coaching. Especially at the high school level where coaches are essentially unpaid should there be 'term limits' to encourage new blood and to bring in new coaches who might be wanting to climb the coaching ladder?

Tell Mr Orr to come tell the MSHSL and Minnesota hockey that.

Bob Gernander, Pete/Mark Decenzo, Lyn Ellington, Willard Ikola, Tom Saterdalen, Bruce Olson, Larry Ross, Rube Bjorkman, George Perpich, Ted Brill, Dave Esse,
Terry Cullen and Dave Morinville

The list goes on and on .......

I would not say success necessarily equals good coaching. At any level beyond youth sports it is hard to win without the good players.

What are you judging a coach on ? just wins and losses?

Personally I would take in consideration things like

1. Do kids leave his program early (bantam's or in HS)
2 # of Penalties team typically has (lack of discipline)
3. Does he get involved in the youth program
4. Is he out passively or actively "recruiting"
5. Do the kid come back to the program (Move back, help coach, etc)

To me it's simple to rank the top coaches from top to bottom based on wins and championships. The tougher job is to rank what ones are really doing their jobs in the form of role model, teacher, psychiatrist, friend, etc etc

I would also add how many seniors are cut to make room for underclassmen.

Tim Sager, WBL, best coach ever!

inthetwine wrote:Tim Sager, WBL, best coach ever!

What qualities make Tim Sager a good coach? How long has he been at WBL?

warmskin wrote:

inthetwine wrote:Tim Sager, WBL, best coach ever!

What qualities make Tim Sager a good coach? How long has he been at WBL?

Been there way too long, being sarcastic.

warmskin wrote:I would also add how many seniors are cut to make room for underclassmen.

Why would this be important? The coach should pick the players he thinks will make the best team.

mulefarm wrote:

warmskin wrote:I would also add how many seniors are cut to make room for underclassmen.

Why would this be important? The coach should pick the players he thinks will make the best team.

This is high school sports not college or pro. For most of the players high school is the end of the road for competitive sports. Is high school sports intended for students to have lasting memories or for coaches ego? If players are of equal ability the older players should be put on the team. I have heard it numerous times from college players that were the best player but were sat because the coach was building for the future which is pretty common out of UofM football and it worked well (not).
I think there are too many coaches who coach to stroke their own ego and forget they are coaching children who are truly student/athletes.

Equal ability is very subjective and each person see things differently. Don't think comparing a D 1 college football program to high school hockey coaches is a good comparison. Coaches do have egos and are competitive people for the most part. That is probably one of the reasons they are coaching.

mulefarm wrote:Equal ability is very subjective and each person see things differently. Don't think comparing a D 1 college football program to high school hockey coaches is a good comparison. Coaches do have egos and are competitive people for the most part. That is probably one of the reasons they are coaching.

Esse and Randolph from the north are classic coaches IMO. I'm not here to convince anybody of that. Especially in the southern and metro part of the state. Just putting it down here for respect of these 2 coaches.

kniven wrote:

mulefarm wrote:Equal ability is very subjective and each person see things differently. Don't think comparing a D 1 college football program to high school hockey coaches is a good comparison. Coaches do have egos and are competitive people for the most part. That is probably one of the reasons they are coaching.

Esse and Randolph from the north are classic coaches IMO. I'm not here to convince anybody of that. Especially in the southern and metro part of the state. Just putting it down here for respect of these 2 coaches.

You are 100% correct!! I highly doubt that we will see coaches stay in it as long as these guys in the future.

What are you judging a coach on ? just wins and losses?

Personally I would take in consideration things like

1. Do kids leave his program early (bantam's or in HS)
2 # of Penalties team typically has (lack of discipline)
3. Does he get involved in the youth program
4. Is he out passively or actively "recruiting"
5. Do the kid come back to the program (Move back, help coach, etc)

To me it's simple to rank the top coaches from top to bottom based on wins and championships. The tougher job is to rank what ones are really doing their jobs in the form of role model, teacher, psychiatrist, friend, etc etc

Like to add did the senior ask the coach to their graduation party and after graduating does the player keep in contact with the coach or avoid them.

inthetwine wrote:Tim Sager, WBL, best coach ever!

Another point of discussion on the flip side of this thread: would be several underperforming teams, who each have D1 players and for much of the preseason/early season were ranked in Top 10/Top 5, but ended up ranked below Top 10 or even Below Top 15, and between 3rd seed to 4th seed in their own section. The question is: what happened?

The obvious pic is Grand Rapids. Top 3 team in the preseason is out of the top ten now and a fourth seed in Sections. However, I would not fault the coach at all.

Any word on what's going on down in Farmington? Leading scorer dismissed from team, and Coach not on the bench for final game of season.