CEC HS Boys- Move to A?
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:13 pm
Matter being discussed again/ input gathered ?
Can Jacks forum members clarify?
Can Jacks forum members clarify?
Do you mean move to Class A ?
Confused they are in 7AA now
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CEC HS Boys- Move to A?
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Re: CEC HS Boys- Move to AA?
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:16 pm
Re: CEC HS Boys- Move to AA?
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:44 pm
I believe nothing is set in stone. They put out a questionnaire on the topic to all HS and youth hockey families (last week?). My understanding is that the board will look at those and make a decision before the deadline.
Re: CEC HS Boys- Move to AA?
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:21 pm
Re: CEC HS Boys- Move to AA?
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:40 pm
I changed the topic name, just to alleviate any residual confusion.
Lee
Re: CEC HS Boys- Move to AA?
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:50 pm
Re: CEC HS Boys- Move to A?
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:58 am
I’m surprised Hermantown doesn’t just play jr gold… they’d win state every year and not just participate in it.
Re: CEC HS Boys- Move to A?
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 6:01 am
Nice! Cloquet be a good add for Class A Maybe even push Hermantown a bit. I would expect Duluth Marshall to come down as well with a new coach and just really struggling with numbers. Elk River back over to 7AA maybe even Brainerd like the old days?
Rogers then back to 8AA...
Re: CEC HS Boys- Move to A?
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:10 am
What does CEC really gain by this move? As long as Hermantown is in 7A, that means if you are good enough to win 7A, you are good enough to win 7AA. Hermantown regularly beats the eventual AA champion. So instead of losing in the 7AA semis, CEC will get smoked in the 7A title game. Is that worth giving up the pride that comes with being one of the few public schools that opt up to AA?
The article states that 90% of families polled were in favor of the move to A, yet the coaches were not enthusiastic about it. I think the parents see that since moving to A at youth, CEC teams are higher in the A rankings, win a lot of games, and even made it to state. These are all great things, but the error the parents are likely making is that they believe success at A in youth translates to success at A in HS. It doesn't. I've made this error, Denfeld fans had their illusions shattered the last two years, and Warroad felt it last year.
No matter how much butt you kick in A at the youth levels, the only criteria for determining your chances of going to state from 7A in HS are: How did we do vs Hermantown AA youth teams? Sure, CEC bantams made it to state last year, but they lost to Hermantown AA 6-2; the pee wees lost 8-2. How's that going to shake out at HS when those two age groups come together and Hermantown adds at least two stud transfers along the way? Ask Denfeld, whose state-bound bantam team finished ranked #3 after a 44-10 season in which they lost to Hermantown AA 3-2, only to meet three years later in the 7A title game, where Hermantown won 11-1!
Unlike the parents, the coaches see clearly how the Class A landscape transforms from youth to HS. They know there isn't much to gain by going to A. At least in the article the CEC AD said that going to A is only a two year option that can be periodically revisited, so perhaps those CEC squirts who are currently ranked #1 will one day get a chance to show what they can do on the biggest stage.
If CEC parents are clamoring to opt down holding on to the hope that Hermantown will eventually opt up to AA, well, they'll fit right in in 7A.
The article states that 90% of families polled were in favor of the move to A, yet the coaches were not enthusiastic about it. I think the parents see that since moving to A at youth, CEC teams are higher in the A rankings, win a lot of games, and even made it to state. These are all great things, but the error the parents are likely making is that they believe success at A in youth translates to success at A in HS. It doesn't. I've made this error, Denfeld fans had their illusions shattered the last two years, and Warroad felt it last year.
No matter how much butt you kick in A at the youth levels, the only criteria for determining your chances of going to state from 7A in HS are: How did we do vs Hermantown AA youth teams? Sure, CEC bantams made it to state last year, but they lost to Hermantown AA 6-2; the pee wees lost 8-2. How's that going to shake out at HS when those two age groups come together and Hermantown adds at least two stud transfers along the way? Ask Denfeld, whose state-bound bantam team finished ranked #3 after a 44-10 season in which they lost to Hermantown AA 3-2, only to meet three years later in the 7A title game, where Hermantown won 11-1!
Unlike the parents, the coaches see clearly how the Class A landscape transforms from youth to HS. They know there isn't much to gain by going to A. At least in the article the CEC AD said that going to A is only a two year option that can be periodically revisited, so perhaps those CEC squirts who are currently ranked #1 will one day get a chance to show what they can do on the biggest stage.
If CEC parents are clamoring to opt down holding on to the hope that Hermantown will eventually opt up to AA, well, they'll fit right in in 7A.
Re: CEC HS Boys- Move to A?
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:19 am
Love it rainier and my apologies I didn't mean to turn this into a Hermantown hate thread there is a separate one for that haha.rainier2 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:10 am What does CEC really gain by this move? As long as Hermantown is in 7A, that means if you are good enough to win 7A, you are good enough to win 7AA. Hermantown regularly beats the eventual AA champion. So instead of losing in the 7AA semis, CEC will get smoked in the 7A title game. Is that worth giving up the pride that comes with being one of the few public schools that opt up to AA?
The article states that 90% of families polled were in favor of the move to A, yet the coaches were not enthusiastic about it. I think the parents see that since moving to A at youth, CEC teams are higher in the A rankings, win a lot of games, and even made it to state. These are all great things, but the error the parents are likely making is that they believe success at A in youth translates to success at A in HS. It doesn't. I've made this error, Denfeld fans had their illusions shattered the last two years, and Warroad felt it last year.
No matter how much butt you kick in A at the youth levels, the only criteria for determining your chances of going to state from 7A in HS are: How did we do vs Hermantown AA youth teams? Sure, CEC bantams made it to state last year, but they lost to Hermantown AA 6-2; the pee wees lost 8-2. How's that going to shake out at HS when those two age groups come together and Hermantown adds at least two stud transfers along the way? Ask Denfeld, whose state-bound bantam team finished ranked #3 after a 44-10 season in which they lost to Hermantown AA 3-2, only to meet three years later in the 7A title game, where Hermantown won 11-1!
Unlike the parents, the coaches see clearly how the Class A landscape transforms from youth to HS. They know there isn't much to gain by going to A. At least in the article the CEC AD said that going to A is only a two year option that can be periodically revisited, so perhaps those CEC squirts who are currently ranked #1 will one day get a chance to show what they can do on the biggest stage.
If CEC parents are clamoring to opt down holding on to the hope that Hermantown will eventually opt up to AA, well, they'll fit right in 7A.
Bigger implications I think are for AA with 7AA losing CEC and Duluth Marshall... Would that lead to 7AA grabbing Elk River again which in turn could lead to 8AA grabbing Rogers.
Meaning Andover wins 7AA and Rogers in 8AA could be a threat to knock off Moorhead, especially if the trend of massive early Departures becomes a trend, then could we see what the north has been fearing a AA tournament with Andover and Rogers representing the "North" ....
Re: CEC HS Boys- Move to A?
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:28 am
No hating on Hermantown here; just stating facts that anyone can look up. And this thread is about CEC program deciding whether to go to A, not what the future of 7AA or 8AA looks like.ClassAGuy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:19 amLove it rainier and my apologies I didn't mean to turn this into a Hermantown hate thread there is a separate one for that haha.rainier2 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:10 am What does CEC really gain by this move? As long as Hermantown is in 7A, that means if you are good enough to win 7A, you are good enough to win 7AA. Hermantown regularly beats the eventual AA champion. So instead of losing in the 7AA semis, CEC will get smoked in the 7A title game. Is that worth giving up the pride that comes with being one of the few public schools that opt up to AA?
The article states that 90% of families polled were in favor of the move to A, yet the coaches were not enthusiastic about it. I think the parents see that since moving to A at youth, CEC teams are higher in the A rankings, win a lot of games, and even made it to state. These are all great things, but the error the parents are likely making is that they believe success at A in youth translates to success at A in HS. It doesn't. I've made this error, Denfeld fans had their illusions shattered the last two years, and Warroad felt it last year.
No matter how much butt you kick in A at the youth levels, the only criteria for determining your chances of going to state from 7A in HS are: How did we do vs Hermantown AA youth teams? Sure, CEC bantams made it to state last year, but they lost to Hermantown AA 6-2; the pee wees lost 8-2. How's that going to shake out at HS when those two age groups come together and Hermantown adds at least two stud transfers along the way? Ask Denfeld, whose state-bound bantam team finished ranked #3 after a 44-10 season in which they lost to Hermantown AA 3-2, only to meet three years later in the 7A title game, where Hermantown won 11-1!
Unlike the parents, the coaches see clearly how the Class A landscape transforms from youth to HS. They know there isn't much to gain by going to A. At least in the article the CEC AD said that going to A is only a two year option that can be periodically revisited, so perhaps those CEC squirts who are currently ranked #1 will one day get a chance to show what they can do on the biggest stage.
If CEC parents are clamoring to opt down holding on to the hope that Hermantown will eventually opt up to AA, well, they'll fit right in 7A.
Bigger implications I think are for AA with 7AA losing CEC and Duluth Marshall... Would that lead to 7AA grabbing Elk River again which in turn could lead to 8AA grabbing Rogers.
Meaning Andover wins 7AA and Rogers in 8AA could be a threat to knock off Moorhead, especially if the trend of massive early Departures becomes a trend, then could we see what the north has been fearing a AA tournament with Andover and Rogers representing the "North" ....
Re: CEC HS Boys- Move to A?
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:00 am
Haha good point rainier.... Back on track CEC to Class A would be good for Class A. Hoping it happens!rainier2 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:28 amNo hating on Hermantown here; just stating facts that anyone can look up. And this thread is about CEC program deciding whether to go to A, not what the future of 7AA or 8AA looks like.ClassAGuy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:19 amLove it rainier and my apologies I didn't mean to turn this into a Hermantown hate thread there is a separate one for that haha.rainier2 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:10 am What does CEC really gain by this move? As long as Hermantown is in 7A, that means if you are good enough to win 7A, you are good enough to win 7AA. Hermantown regularly beats the eventual AA champion. So instead of losing in the 7AA semis, CEC will get smoked in the 7A title game. Is that worth giving up the pride that comes with being one of the few public schools that opt up to AA?
The article states that 90% of families polled were in favor of the move to A, yet the coaches were not enthusiastic about it. I think the parents see that since moving to A at youth, CEC teams are higher in the A rankings, win a lot of games, and even made it to state. These are all great things, but the error the parents are likely making is that they believe success at A in youth translates to success at A in HS. It doesn't. I've made this error, Denfeld fans had their illusions shattered the last two years, and Warroad felt it last year.
No matter how much butt you kick in A at the youth levels, the only criteria for determining your chances of going to state from 7A in HS are: How did we do vs Hermantown AA youth teams? Sure, CEC bantams made it to state last year, but they lost to Hermantown AA 6-2; the pee wees lost 8-2. How's that going to shake out at HS when those two age groups come together and Hermantown adds at least two stud transfers along the way? Ask Denfeld, whose state-bound bantam team finished ranked #3 after a 44-10 season in which they lost to Hermantown AA 3-2, only to meet three years later in the 7A title game, where Hermantown won 11-1!
Unlike the parents, the coaches see clearly how the Class A landscape transforms from youth to HS. They know there isn't much to gain by going to A. At least in the article the CEC AD said that going to A is only a two year option that can be periodically revisited, so perhaps those CEC squirts who are currently ranked #1 will one day get a chance to show what they can do on the biggest stage.
If CEC parents are clamoring to opt down holding on to the hope that Hermantown will eventually opt up to AA, well, they'll fit right in 7A.
Bigger implications I think are for AA with 7AA losing CEC and Duluth Marshall... Would that lead to 7AA grabbing Elk River again which in turn could lead to 8AA grabbing Rogers.
Meaning Andover wins 7AA and Rogers in 8AA could be a threat to knock off Moorhead, especially if the trend of massive early Departures becomes a trend, then could we see what the north has been fearing a AA tournament with Andover and Rogers representing the "North" ....
Re: CEC HS Boys- Move to A?
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:00 am
Had a nice long post written supporting Cloquet as AA but somehow did not get posted.
I blame Lee as he wants CEC out of AA to give the DEast an easier rode to finishing third in 7AA.
Anyway, stay AA Cloquet.
And Hibbing, Rock Ridge and even IFalls (if the new industry p there takes off) can join in.
Wouldn't that be nice 7AA mostly north.
I blame Lee as he wants CEC out of AA to give the DEast an easier rode to finishing third in 7AA.
Anyway, stay AA Cloquet.
And Hibbing, Rock Ridge and even IFalls (if the new industry p there takes off) can join in.
Wouldn't that be nice 7AA mostly north.
Re: CEC HS Boys- Move to A?
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:00 am
Almost disappeared again.
Re: CEC HS Boys- Move to A?
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:06 pm
Nah, Cloquet can stay. I want East in Class A so they can take their annual shot at Hermanclownelliott70 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:00 am Had a nice long post written supporting Cloquet as AA but somehow did not get posted.
I blame Lee as he wants CEC out of AA to give the DEast an easier rode to finishing third in 7AA.
Anyway, stay AA Cloquet.
And Hibbing, Rock Ridge and even IFalls (if the new industry p there takes off) can join in.
Wouldn't that be nice 7AA mostly north.
Lee
Re: CEC HS Boys- Move to A?
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:37 pm
I thought DEast disbanded.east hockey wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:06 pmNah, Cloquet can stay. I want East in Class A so they can take their annual shot at Hermanclownelliott70 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:00 am Had a nice long post written supporting Cloquet as AA but somehow did not get posted.
I blame Lee as he wants CEC out of AA to give the DEast an easier rode to finishing third in 7AA.
Anyway, stay AA Cloquet.
And Hibbing, Rock Ridge and even IFalls (if the new industry p there takes off) can join in.
Wouldn't that be nice 7AA mostly north.
Lee
Saw them play and it sure looked like it.
Re: CEC HS Boys- Move to A?
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:11 pm
Should have watched them play Brrrrmidjielliott70 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:37 pmI thought DEast disbanded.east hockey wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:06 pmNah, Cloquet can stay. I want East in Class A so they can take their annual shot at Hermanclownelliott70 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:00 am Had a nice long post written supporting Cloquet as AA but somehow did not get posted.
I blame Lee as he wants CEC out of AA to give the DEast an easier rode to finishing third in 7AA.
Anyway, stay AA Cloquet.
And Hibbing, Rock Ridge and even IFalls (if the new industry p there takes off) can join in.
Wouldn't that be nice 7AA mostly north.
Lee
Saw them play and it sure looked like it.
Lee
Re: CEC HS Boys- Move to A?
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2022 4:48 pm
Or maybe the parents just want their kids to have fun playing a game that will stop for most at 18? Not everyone subscribes to the idea that you have to develop kids to be the best hockey players they can possibly be, some just want to have fun. I don't think I've seen it mentioned in this thread but what are the numbers like in Cloquet? Are they fielding a nearly full Varsity and JV team every year?rainier2 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:10 am What does CEC really gain by this move? As long as Hermantown is in 7A, that means if you are good enough to win 7A, you are good enough to win 7AA. Hermantown regularly beats the eventual AA champion. So instead of losing in the 7AA semis, CEC will get smoked in the 7A title game. Is that worth giving up the pride that comes with being one of the few public schools that opt up to AA?
The article states that 90% of families polled were in favor of the move to A, yet the coaches were not enthusiastic about it. I think the parents see that since moving to A at youth, CEC teams are higher in the A rankings, win a lot of games, and even made it to state. These are all great things, but the error the parents are likely making is that they believe success at A in youth translates to success at A in HS. It doesn't. I've made this error, Denfeld fans had their illusions shattered the last two years, and Warroad felt it last year.
No matter how much butt you kick in A at the youth levels, the only criteria for determining your chances of going to state from 7A in HS are: How did we do vs Hermantown AA youth teams? Sure, CEC bantams made it to state last year, but they lost to Hermantown AA 6-2; the pee wees lost 8-2. How's that going to shake out at HS when those two age groups come together and Hermantown adds at least two stud transfers along the way? Ask Denfeld, whose state-bound bantam team finished ranked #3 after a 44-10 season in which they lost to Hermantown AA 3-2, only to meet three years later in the 7A title game, where Hermantown won 11-1!
Unlike the parents, the coaches see clearly how the Class A landscape transforms from youth to HS. They know there isn't much to gain by going to A. At least in the article the CEC AD said that going to A is only a two year option that can be periodically revisited, so perhaps those CEC squirts who are currently ranked #1 will one day get a chance to show what they can do on the biggest stage.
If CEC parents are clamoring to opt down holding on to the hope that Hermantown will eventually opt up to AA, well, they'll fit right in in 7A.
Re: CEC HS Boys- Move to A?
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:40 pm
Wheels in motion CEC moving to Class A next winter!
Breaking News
https://twitter.com/pinejournal/status/ ... 1853517824
https://www.pinejournal.com/sports/prep ... to-class-a
Breaking News
https://twitter.com/pinejournal/status/ ... 1853517824
https://www.pinejournal.com/sports/prep ... to-class-a
Re: CEC HS Boys- Move to A?
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:56 pm
With Stella Maris Academy adding Hockey and CEC moving down for sure that adds 2 teams to an already loaded 7A (10 teams)
Best guess is the two/three furthest south get to go to 5A like Proctor, Moose Lake and Hermantown for years.
Logical to think that this is a genius move by the Lumberjacks as they will be placed in 5A not 7A next year
Them and Moose Lake seem most Likely to go to 5A
Lumberjacks become instant favorite for State in that Section!
Best guess is the two/three furthest south get to go to 5A like Proctor, Moose Lake and Hermantown for years.
Logical to think that this is a genius move by the Lumberjacks as they will be placed in 5A not 7A next year
Them and Moose Lake seem most Likely to go to 5A
Lumberjacks become instant favorite for State in that Section!
Re: CEC HS Boys- Move to A?
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:44 pm
Is Duluth Marshall also going to Class A?ClassAGuy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:56 pm With Stella Maris Academy adding Hockey and CEC moving down for sure that adds 2 teams to an already loaded 7A (10 teams)
Best guess is the two/three furthest south get to go to 5A like Proctor, Moose Lake and Hermantown for years.
Logical to think that this is a genius move by the Lumberjacks as they will be placed in 5A not 7A next year
Them and Moose Lake seem most Likely to go to 5A
Lumberjacks become instant favorite for State in that Section!
Re: CEC HS Boys- Move to A?
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:49 pm
I thought Stella Maris folded it's attempt for hockey. Rumor I heard was they couldn't get enough kids for a team.
Re: CEC HS Boys- Move to A?
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:26 pm
Re: CEC HS Boys- Move to A?
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:34 pm
Good Question I would think yes they are really struggling but also didnt the last time when they were struggling as well.rainier2 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:44 pmIs Duluth Marshall also going to Class A?ClassAGuy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:56 pm With Stella Maris Academy adding Hockey and CEC moving down for sure that adds 2 teams to an already loaded 7A (10 teams)
Best guess is the two/three furthest south get to go to 5A like Proctor, Moose Lake and Hermantown for years.
Logical to think that this is a genius move by the Lumberjacks as they will be placed in 5A not 7A next year
Them and Moose Lake seem most Likely to go to 5A
Lumberjacks become instant favorite for State in that Section!
If DM and CEC go A that would create a 7A with 12 teams and would bump a few south.
Seems very likely CEC could be in 5A and not 7A