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Money doesn't save your program if the numbers aren't there.headsupsticksdown wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:57 pm Can someone start a GoFundMe or whatever the platform of choice is to save the St. Paul Johnson program? With dwindling numbers each year due to demographics, kids opting elsewhere, etc., it'd be a damn shame to see such a storied program fold.
Totally agree. Not insisting raising money, but a platform that would allow and show support for this program. Whether that’s educating kids on the benefit of attending Johnson, playing varsity vs. Jr. Gold, etc. Wish there was something that could be done to help that program out…BSUBeaver wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:13 pmMoney doesn't save your program if the numbers aren't there.headsupsticksdown wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:57 pm Can someone start a GoFundMe or whatever the platform of choice is to save the St. Paul Johnson program? With dwindling numbers each year due to demographics, kids opting elsewhere, etc., it'd be a damn shame to see such a storied program fold.
You bring up a good point(s).. The demographics are certainly changing and unfortunately, more and more communities will be faced with what some have, some are and will face here in the future. Heck, look what's happening to Richfield/Bloomington/Jefferson and is slowly trickling into the more "prominent" burbs of say Eden Prairie. It's real, no doubt. The families and kids that are moving into these communities traditionally don't see hockey as an option whether that's due to costs, no relation to the game (friends, family, etc.) or whatever. And believe it or not, there are and have been a strong push for targeting these communities with various events--Try hockey for free, Dinomites, etc. Another side of the discussion is to keep_kids_playing because the fact is there is a huge drop off at the Bantam level where kids are just flat out choosing not to play hockey any longer for one reason or another. In fact, it's not just hockey---there are tons of kids that just aren't doing anything now, it's not just the issue of kids focusing on a single sport year round, they're just sitting at home playing games, Neflix'ing and chilling, etc.East Side Pioneer Guy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:45 pm If your Dad grew up in a place that didn't have snow and ice, you're very, very unlikely to play hockey or learn to skate.
Hockey is a great game. And we need to spread the word that hockey is for everyone. And we need to keep costs low, and lower and eliminate barriers to participation.
Back about 20 years ago, the West Side program folded, and they became part of Johnson Area. I said it would have better served those families to play with West St Paul. "Oh, well, that's a different district," I was told. So because adults drew a arbitrary line on a map, we couldn't do what was best for the game, which is making it easier for players and families to get in the game. Which is more important? Kids playing hockey? Or adults' arbitrary rules?
If you don't know about the Minnesota Rec Hockey League, you should. It's very well run, low-key, and only $385/season in fees. It's a great way to grow the game; keeping some families in the game, and introducing it to other families.
One thing we can do to keep hockey alive, at Johnson and similar communities, is to keep hammering on the theme that Hockey Is For Everyone. Most of the kids at Johnson don't look like me or my kids. And we need more hockey players who look like the kids at Johnson. And they need to know they're welcome in our hockey community. No kid should look in the mirror and think, "That kid doesn't look like a hockey player."
But, I can guarantee that once they've actually gotten acclimated with how much bonding, community and the overwhelming will to help out everyone in that small circle---they'd be hooked!The same thing happened to Burnsville. That's probably why they combined with Apple Valley for their program.headsupsticksdown wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:42 pmYou bring up a good point(s).. The demographics are certainly changing and unfortunately, more and more communities will be faced with what some have, some are and will face here in the future. Heck, look what's happening to Richfield/Bloomington/Jefferson and is slowly trickling into the more "prominent" burbs of say Eden Prairie. It's real, no doubt. The families and kids that are moving into these communities traditionally don't see hockey as an option whether that's due to costs, no relation to the game (friends, family, etc.) or whatever. And believe it or not, there are and have been a strong push for targeting these communities with various events--Try hockey for free, Dinomites, etc. Another side of the discussion is to keep_kids_playing because the fact is there is a huge drop off at the Bantam level where kids are just flat out choosing not to play hockey any longer for one reason or another. In fact, it's not just hockey---there are tons of kids that just aren't doing anything now, it's not just the issue of kids focusing on a single sport year round, they're just sitting at home playing games, Neflix'ing and chilling, etc.East Side Pioneer Guy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:45 pm If your Dad grew up in a place that didn't have snow and ice, you're very, very unlikely to play hockey or learn to skate.
Hockey is a great game. And we need to spread the word that hockey is for everyone. And we need to keep costs low, and lower and eliminate barriers to participation.
Back about 20 years ago, the West Side program folded, and they became part of Johnson Area. I said it would have better served those families to play with West St Paul. "Oh, well, that's a different district," I was told. So because adults drew a arbitrary line on a map, we couldn't do what was best for the game, which is making it easier for players and families to get in the game. Which is more important? Kids playing hockey? Or adults' arbitrary rules?
If you don't know about the Minnesota Rec Hockey League, you should. It's very well run, low-key, and only $385/season in fees. It's a great way to grow the game; keeping some families in the game, and introducing it to other families.
One thing we can do to keep hockey alive, at Johnson and similar communities, is to keep hammering on the theme that Hockey Is For Everyone. Most of the kids at Johnson don't look like me or my kids. And we need more hockey players who look like the kids at Johnson. And they need to know they're welcome in our hockey community. No kid should look in the mirror and think, "That kid doesn't look like a hockey player."
Without getting into too much detail, my kid does not come from a traditional hockey background, nor did he grow up around ice. He just found a love for the game and he honestly could care less whether or not there is a kid that looks like him on the team. There still is a dark side to getting into hockey from a minority's perspective. Just this season, my kids team has had two instances where race was a major factor both during and after the game due to comments, chirps, etc. And it's not like we were up in central or the outskirts of the state--we were right smack dab in the metro. MN Hockey and the associations on both sides have been great in attempting to eliminating these things from happening and assuring that appropriate action will be taken when it does, but believe it or not, it's still alive and well. Another sorta funny side of this is that some of these cultures just don't connect with the safety meetings, infatuation with Fireball shots or constant need to put together goodie bags and door signs for out of town tournaments.
They do have a hell of a badminton program.East Side Pioneer Guy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:45 pm If your Dad grew up in a place that didn't have snow and ice, you're very, very unlikely to play hockey or learn to skate.
Hockey is a great game. And we need to spread the word that hockey is for everyone. And we need to keep costs low, and lower and eliminate barriers to participation.
Back about 20 years ago, the West Side program folded, and they became part of Johnson Area. I said it would have better served those families to play with West St Paul. "Oh, well, that's a different district," I was told. So because adults drew a arbitrary line on a map, we couldn't do what was best for the game, which is making it easier for players and families to get in the game. Which is more important? Kids playing hockey? Or adults' arbitrary rules?
If you don't know about the Minnesota Rec Hockey League, you should. It's very well run, low-key, and only $385/season in fees. It's a great way to grow the game; keeping some families in the game, and introducing it to other families.
One thing we can do to keep hockey alive, at Johnson and similar communities, is to keep hammering on the theme that Hockey Is For Everyone. Most of the kids at Johnson don't look like me or my kids. And we need more hockey players who look like the kids at Johnson. And they need to know they're welcome in our hockey community. No kid should look in the mirror and think, "That kid doesn't look like a hockey player."
Rooting for you all!!Gov78 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 4:53 pm As a 3rd generation JHS graduate with a strong interest in the hockey history there, my father was on the '53, '54' & '55 teams, the end of hockey seems to be just a matter of time as the numbers continue to dwindle and Steve "Moose" Younghans gets closer to hanging it up.
Moose has kept this program alive for the past 20+ years at HS and much longer at the youth level. Moose is in his later 60s and he knows this is an uphill battle and while he has the full support of the school administration I have a feeling time will eventually win this battle.
Thanks for showing your concern and bringing this up as it will be a sad day for MN hockey when the Govies are no longer lacing them up and hitting the ice.
This is spot on.Last Tuesday I saw a Ref report from one of the districts that the ref had thrown 2 fans and a coach out of the same game. Last line in the report.............I quit officiating after tonight. This was not a young official, he was 30+ years old. It's happening more than anyone thinks.goldy313 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 10:52 pm If the MSHSL (they are the problem) and the schools themselves can’t figure out the obvious…..most high school sports will be done in ~10 years. You are going to run out of officials.
While bad decisions by local youth hockey associations, changing demographics, and cost are all factors. There is a much bigger issue lurking. Without officials there are not games.
As long as the MSHSL and schools keep lowering expectations and acceptable conduct from coaches and players they will have less and less officials. Very few people want to get sworn at for 48 or 54 minutes by coaches, let alone a 16 year old.
This is from a 25+ year official who is done officiating.
On topic…..to lose Johnson and John Marshall in the same year is almost sacrilegious.
So you tell him to shut his pie hole or his team will be short handed. This isn’t rocket science.Delayedoffsides wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 11:26 pmThis is spot on.Last Tuesday I saw a Ref report from one of the districts that the ref had thrown 2 fans and a coach out of the same game. Last line in the report.............I quit officiating after tonight. This was not a young official, he was 30+ years old. It's happening more than anyone thinks.goldy313 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 10:52 pm If the MSHSL (they are the problem) and the schools themselves can’t figure out the obvious…..most high school sports will be done in ~10 years. You are going to run out of officials.
While bad decisions by local youth hockey associations, changing demographics, and cost are all factors. There is a much bigger issue lurking. Without officials there are not games.
As long as the MSHSL and schools keep lowering expectations and acceptable conduct from coaches and players they will have less and less officials. Very few people want to get sworn at for 48 or 54 minutes by coaches, let alone a 16 year old.
This is from a 25+ year official who is done officiating.
On topic…..to lose Johnson and John Marshall in the same year is almost sacrilegious.
Watched a JV game two weeks ago, game started with 1 ref, half way thru another joined. Only going to get worse unless it is addressed. Saw a tweet from the Hermantown vs Benilde game. "Death, taxes and Ken Pauley screaming at refs". Pretty much sums it up with Pauly, one of the worst at screaming and shows absolutely no respect towards the officials. He's been that way for years.
My tourney seats are right next to the Visitors bench.....have had them now for 15 years. In all the games that I've sat there, no coach screamed at the officials more than Pauly.
Wow, that's just pathetic. Especially in light of the messages we've all seen from the MSHSL about respecting refs, and getting more people to ref. The inmates are running the asylum.goldy313 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:24 pm SEC Scotty, you have a great idea but we as officials can’t do that anymore. The coach, AD, and school have all the power. We officials overreacted. Until we get body cams we are almost always on the losing side.
The Superintendent who oversees the AD who oversees the coach can’t be wrong.
Kevin Merkle started officiating down a dark road, Jason Nickleby is accelerating it. They were/are the guys at the MSHSL in charge of officiating. If they don’t defend us who will?
A few years ago I had a guy on my football crew intentionally hit by a player 30 yards away from the ball. He suffered a significant ankle injury. The MSHSL did nothing. It was clear on video available to all through huddle (a video sharing app) it was intentional. Yet Merkle,who was a spineless idiot, the MSHSL, the coach, and AD did nothing. The school board did, thankfully. The MSHSL won’t defend their own officials. Yet they make us as football officials pay 1/8 of our season pay for the “privilege” of being an MSHSL official.