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This has been quite a day for those who believe that high school hockey should be a positive community activity, and not a meat market where the squad that collects the most “all-stars” wins.

First, the marvelous piece in the Pioneer Press about Gopher recruit Laura May and her decision to stay at Mahtomedi, spurning offers to transfer to any of a number of so-called hockey powers.

Please, please, please….every parent of a talented player, please read and understand the following quote from Laura:

“I became a believer in the idea that if you are good enough, (college scouts) will find you," May said.

YES. That is it in a nutshell, and what some of us have been saying for years. With so many spring, summer and fall elite teams and opportunities, quality players will be noticed regardless of how prominent their HS team is.

Secondly, comes the wonderful report posted elsewhere about the proposed MSHSL transfer rules. These MUST be adopted to return some sanity to the sport.

Especially effective is the provision that all those, regardless of year, who have competed on varsity at one school will lose a year of eligibility when transferring to another. This negates the common practice, especially among privates, of snatching the best young players from surrounding schools.

I would add one provision – that the MSHSL fully fund and operate an investigative/enforcement apparatus, to flush out those who will try to skirt these rules. For instance, perhaps a “big roller” from Lake Minnetonka would think nothing of renting an apartment in St. Louis Park and claim a family move, for Susie to be able to play penalty-free at BSM.

Finally, coaches will be forced to actually work with and develop the players they have, rather than merely troll the surrounding area for those interested in transferring.

Really enjoyed the article. Class act for sure.

OldCoachDS,

I agree that the Laura May piece in the PP was nice. Good for her for having and sticking to her convictions. The problem is that what is good for and works for one kid, doesn't necessarily work for another.

Your point seems to contradict itself. We all know that off-season opportunities are endless. If your point about off-season opportunities allowing kids to get noticed regardless of their HS situation is valid (largely accepted), then is it only open enrollees who don't subscribe to it? I doubt it.

And if your point is not valid, and off-season opportunities don't provide enough exposure, then maybe kids need to open enroll for exposure. I just don't think that's the case. The truth of the matter is that people make many decisions, about many things, for many reasons, and generalizations, whether they are on this forum or in the PP, don't cut it.

One last thing. It's my opinion that most HS coaches are honorable. Maybe I'm naive, but I doubt many are out there "trolling" for transfers. There are many, many schools with transfers. Are the coaches of all those schools recruiting? Again, I doubt it.

The only good thing about not changing the rules/penalties about transfers is that it could possibly create a David v Goliath scenario. Who in their right mind would ever root for EP against anyone. It's kind of like it used to be many years ago when Edina was dominant in hockey. At the State Tournament, most everyone rooted for the uderdog when they played Edina. So, maybe in sections or at State, an uderdog could upset a team like EP. Not likey but possible.

xwildfan wrote:The only good thing about not changing the rules/penalties about transfers is that it could possibly create a David v Goliath scenario. Who in their right mind would ever root for EP against anyone. It's kind of like it used to be many years ago when Edina was dominant in hockey. At the State Tournament, most everyone rooted for the uderdog when they played Edina. So, maybe in sections or at State, an uderdog could upset a team like EP. Not likey but possible.

I would be cheering on any public school playing a private. Some public schools have 1, 2, 3 or even 4 transfers....Privates have 30-35 transfers!

I think privates are a different issue, switching to a private school is not the same as transferring to another HS, for starters, you pay and are entitled to all the activities that school provides, it's not payed for by the school district. As a result some privates may have an unfair advantage. If you feel that is a serious problem, then bring that up with the MSHSL as a separate matter to deal with.

xk1 wrote:I think privates are a different issue, switching to a private school is not the same as transferring to another HS, for starters, you pay and are entitled to all the activities that school provides, it's not payed for by the school district. As a result some privates may have an unfair advantage. If you feel that is a serious problem, then bring that up with the MSHSL as a separate matter to deal with.

Private Schools should all be put into 1 section and only make it to state each year!

People that think athletes don't leave their public districts to play on All Star private schools are just kidding themselves.

Once HA, CDH, BSM entered section 5AA and 6AA respectfully they joined the same ranks of the public schools. I cannot blame teams in their section for having open enrolled players. How else can they compete?

Privates need to have the same rules as the public schools. Otherwise start their own league and their own state tourney!

Also, privates do get some state funding! Textbooks (Secular materials), transportation, food services, special education support, etc... It's not all paid for by tuition...

Lastly, it is my belief that all the turmoil spreading about open enrollment now has been a smoke screen for what has been going on with private schools the last 10 years. Open forums are great! Everybody has an opinion and it's great to hear what people think.


Game to watch tonight.... Edina vs. Burnsville... Should be good...

Sleeper Team to watch.... Hopkins: Young team with a lot of team speed

What I do find intersting is the punishment for transferring is greater than that for substance abuse, poor grades and probably even committing a felony (as long as you aren't doing time).

My daughter had the opportunitty to play on the same team as Laura May in spring hockey, she was by far the best player on the ice and could have rung up huge goal totals but she made sure that every girl on the team got there chances at goals, It was amazing to see Laura dishing the puck off to girls at every opportunity....She is truely a class act.

OldCoachDS wrote: Especially effective is the provision that all those, regardless of year, who have competed on varsity at one school will lose a year of eligibility when transferring to another. This negates the common practice, especially among privates, of snatching the best young players from surrounding schools.

Please WAKE UP to the fact that transfers among public schools are more common than between privates.

Two high profile cases in point:

Christina Lee , who was one of the top forwards in the state and is now playing for Mankato, moved from Orono to play at Wayzata HS.

Even more disturbing: Melissa Feste and Maria Stoa moving to Eden Prairie last year from Kennedy. Both are bonafide D1 players. Is there any doubt EP would not have gone undefeated without them! EP may not lose a game again this year - because these two players transferred.

Please do not throw stones at private schools when public schools have been inviting these transfers for years. There are many more examples.

I invite these new rules, as I believe transferring to a private school has always been much more difficult than transferring from one public high school to another. These rules will further enhance the advantage privates enjoy as they, in my opinion, offer a better education in a more enjoyable environment.

There are more public schools than privates. So, we need to look at % not #.

Bottom line: There is no perfect solution.

Question: Is it wrong to transfer for athletics?

Consideration: What if athletics are what keep a child on the right track in life? Does this have an impact on answering the above question?

I'm not entirely being sarcastic about my "modest proposal" of just doing community based HS athletics and letting kids go to whatever HS they want for school. But does this solve the problem of the kids that want a better athletic experience than their community can provide? No.

I think GHS is on to something here !!! Let kids open enroll for academic reasons as the statute had originally intended, but make them play athletics in the school district in which they reside. The logistics of this could be an issue, but in theory it sort of makes everybody happy if there is such a thing.

I also think that Private Schools are a totally seperate issue. If parents are willing to spend big $$$ (between $8K - $20K/year) to send their kids to private school chances are they are doing it for more than just sports.

Rube

Brian,

I do think going to a particular high school because they have a stronger athletic program is a great idea, just as going to a particular HS for an academic program is also justified. You and I are in complete agreement here.

I think the current transfer rules are better than the new proposed rules however. Some kids do find themselves in crummy situations, either they don't like the HS in which they enrolled, or the program is not what they had envisioned. Currently they get one free transfer with no penalty. That seems fair to me.

The new rules will require someone make the right choice before they enter high school, or their parents must move into the district to which they want to transfer. If they don't they sit out one whole year. That seems pretty harsh.

My earlier post is in response to the tired old Private School bashing we see so often on this site and the boys' site.
The bottom line is Private Schools play by the same rules the Publics do. If you run a good program, be it hockey or band, you are going to attract the better hockey or band players. And on top of that, if your school offers other advantages over some other HS, public or private, you are likely to attract more better players and band members as well.

The question I would be asking is if I were a pro-Public school guy is;

Given the fact it costs between $8500 and $20,000 per year to attend private high schools (and they are packed to the brim), and it is free to attend Public High Schools, what do Publics need to do differently to be more competitive in all of these different areas, athletics, scholastics, extracurriculars, etc...????

Its that whole Capitalistic thing. Start competing and stop complaining.

I used to be real guilty of bashing the privates too! I've backed-off a bit now though.

hey, watch that bashing of private schools...I send my family to Hill- Murray. They go there because it offers the best education I can afford, My son (who's 11) is a pretty good hockey player, most likely he would be at the end of a long bench on Hills team Is it right to penilize him if he transfers someplace rather than sitting on the bench at Hill? If this is what he wants to do and I feel the education he would be getting was good I would encourage him to do it. We have conditioned the kids to strive for the best they can be, maybe we need an elete high school league where the best can goplay. but to penilize kids that are marginal atheletes that need a better situation is not fair to them and from what I see there are more marginal atheletes transfering than superstars.

hockeynut99 wrote:

OldCoachDS wrote: Especially effective is the provision that all those, regardless of year, who have competed on varsity at one school will lose a year of eligibility when transferring to another. This negates the common practice, especially among privates, of snatching the best young players from surrounding schools.

Please WAKE UP to the fact that transfers among public schools are more common than between privates.

Two high profile cases in point:

Christina Lee , who was one of the top forwards in the state and is now playing for Mankato, moved from Orono to play at Wayzata HS.

Even more disturbing: Melissa Feste and Maria Stoa moving to Eden Prairie last year from Kennedy. Both are bonafide D1 players. Is there any doubt EP would not have gone undefeated without them! EP may not lose a game again this year - because these two players transferred.

Please do not throw stones at private schools when public schools have been inviting these transfers for years. There are many more examples.

I invite these new rules, as I believe transferring to a private school has always been much more difficult than transferring from one public high school to another. These rules will further enhance the advantage privates enjoy as they, in my opinion, offer a better education in a more enjoyable environment.

Good call... I think open enrollment is a bad thing... For all Public and Private!

What I'm trying to point out about privates is... If open enrollment is stopped (which it should be)... And the new rules don't apply to privates (which some feel they shouldn't)... Then you can just skip the section 6AA playoff, section 5AA playoffs, and 2AA playoffs and just write in BSM(6AA) HA or CDH(5AA) and HM(2AA)...

Because eventually all the top AAA players will be leaving for these schools...

Let's not mention that it isn't always difficult for parents to pay for a private education (many don't have to). Some (not mentioned) privates have athletic scholarships. They might not call them that, but they are provided by alumni and other deep pocket supporters.

No, there is no perfect solution to this problem. I do believe the High School League is making some big strides. Even the playing field and make sports fun for all.

Lastly, if a good education is what you're looking for, great then get it. Some of the best private schools (most expensive) don't have great hockey teams. Blake is probably the only exception.

Couldn't agree more! Problem is and GHS has mentioned many times, there are too many ego's out there, and they will never allow this to happen. They will just move elsewhere to put their groups "Above it all". If you do away with open enrollment, there will be another form of AAA that sweeps in and takes it all over, it is already happening.

Let's not mention that it isn't always difficult for parents to pay for a private education (many don't have to). Some (not mentioned) privates have athletic scholarships. They might not call them that, but they are provided by alumni and other deep pocket supporters.

I have heard these innuendos, as you state above, about private high shools providing athletic scholarships. I have never seen any evidence of this whatsoever. If you know of any violations in this regard, please run to the MSHSL and report it. Otherwise, it is just another baseless rant and your complaint falls into the another-reason-why-we-can't-compete whining category.

The only financial aid allowed by the MSHSL is need based, and for no other reason. If a student, who happens to be a good athlete, receives financial assistance from a school, it is because he/she needs it to attend there. There is a rigorous process to qualify for such.

As far as recruiting violations are concerned, two investigations of alleged recruiting violations were conducted by MSHSL about 7 years ago. The MSHSL investigated the boys hockey program at AHA and the boys hockey program at Eastview. AHA was completely exonerated of any alleged recruiting violations, but the Eastview program was cited for violations and some of their players and coaches were reprimanded and suspensions were handed out.

who are some of these boosters handing out scholarships to private school kids? I pay roughly 10 grand a year per kid to send them to private schools and have never seen any hint of scholarship money flowing into the athletes direction. I do know there is financial aide available through the arch diocese, but that is all need based and I think about a third of the kids get a taste of that. but anything That I seen that looks like a scholarship is all based on a parent's income.

In some privates (I believe CDH is the poster child) you can;t even get into the school in 9th grade unless you are a legacy. Other schools (such as Edina) don't start HS until 10th grade. There are many people that don't want to sent their child to private until 10th because of this. They don't deserve to sit a year for that.
There are counless reasons why people wait until after 9th grade, the current system is the best compromise in my opinion.

The current situation at EP is due 100% to the complete incompetence of the BK principal, not OE.

xk1 is right.

Also - I have to say that if bashing schools (privates specifically) isn't right, we certainly shouldn't be "naming names" and bashing 16 year-old kids.

I think free speech is great, but let's not name names here in a negative light. We may all know who we're talking about, but I have to ask a personal favor of everyone not to speak so harshly about some kids that I personally know quite well and hate to see them named as they have been.

This is a very emotion charged discussion, but let's stick the generalities. Lots of transfers yes, but naming names isn't right I don't think when it's kids. Teams? Coaches? Adults? I guess go after them if you want. But please not the kids.

Speaking of naming names, it's kind of late, recently the St Paul paper list all of the girls that transferred in BB in print. Also I don't the reference to the BK kids was really negative toward them, they are just the most visible, at least they wern't accused of being traitorous vermon for once.

Good point. I'm just biased! I'[m off to practice! Two new (never played hockey) players signed up this week - both foreign exchange students - should be neat - I meet with them today...

Sorry Brian,

Those players mentioned in my previous post were so mentioned because their transfers proved so many of my points. Their names were not mentioned in a negative vein, not in my estimation.

Why did they leave BK? Don't know. Don't care. However, I fully support their right to do so. I am glad the system allowed it.

Why did they go to Eden Prairie? Two reasons; It has a very good girls program and the tuition is free. I know that one of the players wanted to go to a private school with a good hockey program, but money was the issue. This proves two more of my contentions; that it is easier to transfer among public schools and athletic scholarships are not available at private schools.

I never have nor intend to demean high school players.

Their transfers may be one of the reasons the MSHSL is changing the rules, as they are high profile players playing on a high profile team. And being high profile players, being mentioned on a chatboard such as this goes with the territory.

I misinterpreted this as a shot at the kids and it obvioulsy wasn't.