Tough Schedule vs. Easy Schedule

[bringiton22]

A lot has been said about teams that choose to stay local for the most part and play a "weaker" schedule, then to travel around the state in search of the best competition. Just wondering what everybody thinks.

Last year Duluth East traveled a lot to play the best teams in the state to better prepare them for the section tournament and eventually the state tournament. That backfired as they were bounced in the semi's by Cloquet, who stays local, and also plays several class A schools.

Hermantown has also been highly criticized for their "softer" schedule, especially last year when many said Hibbing had a much bigger advantage going into playoffs with a much worse record, because they took their lumps and played several of the states best. Hermantown defeated Hibbing in the section final to head to state.

Personally I think there needs to be some balance in a teams schedule, but I really think it benefits a team so much more going into playoffs on a hot streak with a record of 22-2-1 then something like 14-12 regardless of who they have played. One needs to remember these kids are 16-18 years old and confidence can weigh much higher than experience alone.

I am not saying that playing a tough schedule is a recipe for disaster, because I am sure there are several examples opposite of what I just said, but I want to know anybodys thoughts on this.

[wisconsinprephockey]

As far as preparing for the State Tournament, or Sectionals either would can work. Over the course of a season if your team is good enough they are gonna be ready regardless of a tough/weak schedule. The only downside to a tough schedule is if you schedule them all down the stretch leading to the state tournament and your team is beat up and tired.

However if you want to team to get respect during the season you gotta play some tough teams. (However you can get that respect by succeeding at state...)

[bringiton22]

I should mention that I am not saying an easy schedule like Moose Lake or Ely's schedule either. I understand they need to have an easier schedule or it would be pointless to even have a team.

What people consider an easy schedule for Duluth Marshall and Hermantown would result in many 10-0 games for teams like Moose Lake or Ely. I just wanted to clarify what I meant by "easy" to everyone.

[Can't Never Tried]

There are arguments for both... a new program may want to start out lighter and develop some confidence rather then just get thrashed so badly that the team gets a bad reputation right out of the shute, and then gradually increase the SOS as the confidence in the program grows.
Keep in mind that coaches pick their non-conf. games and both have to agree so you may only get just so good of an opponent.
Also the strength of your conference has an unavoidable effect on your SOS.

Another way to look at it is this, if you are an established metro team you have a great deal of choice of how difficult you want your schedule with non-conf. games while still staying local.

I still say in most cases better competition will better the team in the long haul.

[Govs93]

A lot has been said about teams that choose to stay local for the most part and play a "weaker" schedule, then to travel around the state in search of the best competition. Just wondering what everybody thinks.

Last year Duluth East traveled a lot to play the best teams in the state to better prepare them for the section tournament and eventually the state tournament. That backfired as they were bounced in the semi's by Cloquet, who stays local, and also plays several class A schools.

Hermantown has also been highly criticized for their "softer" schedule, especially last year when many said Hibbing had a much bigger advantage going into playoffs with a much worse record, because they took their lumps and played several of the states best. Hermantown defeated Hibbing in the section final to head to state.

Personally I think there needs to be some balance in a teams schedule, but I really think it benefits a team so much more going into playoffs on a hot streak with a record of 22-2-1 then something like 14-12 regardless of who they have played. One needs to remember these kids are 16-18 years old and confidence can weigh much higher than experience alone.

I am not saying that playing a tough schedule is a recipe for disaster, because I am sure there are several examples opposite of what I just said, but I want to know anybodys thoughts on this.

I don't think you'd be able to answer this with one or the other.

Obviously schedules are put together long before teams are fully assembled , so it will always be tough to know exactly how tough or easy your schedule will really be (look at Jefferson and WBL this season as examples), but if you have a reasonable assumption that your team is going to struggle for a long period of time (say 2 or 3 years), I would prefer to have a "soft" schedule to pick up as many wins as you can in attempt to built confidence in your high school team, and give the kids in your feeder program something to look forward to.

If you have reason to believe that your team can compete for a berth in the tournament, I'd try to schedule as much solid competition as possible - especially if you're in a weaker seaction... just look what it did for CDH last season.

But the "X Factor" here is always going to be money... does your team have the budget to travel around and play tougher teams? In the case of Hermantown (and believe me, I know nothing about them), I would guess that they don't have the budget to travel south too often to play some of the bigger metro schools, so they're going to appear to have a soft schedule as a result.

[Goldy Gopher]

I would argue that it isn't needed to schedule the top teams in state during the regular season in order to prepare you for state. Depending on what section you're in you'll have to play at least one good team in the section tourney in order to get to state and I would say that one win over the good opponent is going to do more for your team heading into state than a .500 record against good teams during the regular season will.

[grindiangrad-80]

I think tougher schedules help out in the long run.
Playing high profile teams becomes more routine, right on down through your program.
However, I think it's not so much who you play, but when you play them.
Being on a roll at the end is usually the best.
If you had a State Tourny in December, you would probably end up with a different champ than the one in March most of the time.

Just my thoughts.

[HShockeywatcher]

This is a complex question that has many different approaches.
First, you have to think of what class the team is in.
Second, you have to consider common opponents from conference to section.
Third, are you trying to be looked at as the "better" team, or are you trying to do well at the end of the year?

1. As much as I myself have commented on Hermantown's soft schedule, they are a Class A school. With Cloquet and Hopkins being their only AA opponents, if you just consider Class A opponents, they probably have the hardest schedule. Cloquet is an A school in their conference who opted up, and Hopkins, beats me, but it was a home game.
2. Cloquet is a AA team who is there because they opted up, but they have a mediocre AA schedule. 11 of their opponents are AA and 14 A.
3. Hibbing has the luxury of having all their section competition in their conference, outside of Hermantown. So that leaves much room for other games, since they have already played conference opponents and prepared for sections. Hermantown, on the other hand, does not have many in the conference from their section. So to play those teams, they have to use up games. By the time they play their conference, section and dabble in the 2A and 8A teams, there's no room left. Nothing wrong with that.
4. Holy Angels, ah yes, the one we all love to talk about. Their conference is 14 their 25 games, which are all either A or bad AA teams. BUT for the other 11 games they play in the schwan cup, 7 other top AA teams and Shattuck.
5. St Thomas Academy is the top A city school. They are in a consistently pretty good conference. They have 16 conference games, 3 of whom they play twice and are in their section. Then they play two other top dogs from their section, a couple top A schools, a top AA school, and a Christmas tournament.
6. Lake Conference teams every year have top competition for 20 of their game. As in an 11 team conference, if you play everyone twice, you are only left with 5 other games, and if you play a Christmas tournament, that's 2 of your choosing.

St Thomas' schedule vs Hermantown's schedule
With a 25-0 season Hermantown would be the top team in Class A
With a 25-0 season St Thomas would be a top 2 team in state

Holy Angels' schedule vs Cloquets' schedule
Both teams similarly have weaker opponents and top notch opponents

So, on paper if a team's good, they're good and their schedule shouldn't matter. What's the correct answer? One may never know.

[gitter]

It is a simple answer with not a very simple solution. Yes, you get better by playing better teams. Just because East lost to Cloquet in the semis last year doesn't mean it "backfired" on them. I would say East progressed as a team much more by playing its tough schedule, than they would have if they didn't.

Now the solution is much harder because we have this fun thing called "conferences". Unfortunately coaches can't get around the fact thye need to schedule conference games, which invariably include poorer teams.

[boblee]

They say there is no such thing as a stupid question. They were wrong. This was stupid. A difficult schedule is much more beneficial.

[Can't Never Tried]

Right on Gitter .....for example take a team like STA they are a young team and playing a tough schedule, it is going to show up in the next 2 years as the players will be very well adjusted to the high level of competition.

[Irishmans Shanty]

Either you're great or you're not. Putting 25 juggernauts on a shedule will not make a team any better than if they played 12 cupcakes along the way instead. Rubbing elbows with great teams inside the boards doesn't make you one simply by playing more of them.

If you play enough great teams to be able to adapt to the pace, speed, and strength of what the best can do, that's all that is needed. If you play Moorhead on Monday and follow that up with Redwood, Fairmont, and Sleepy Eye and then go back to an AHA, it will take all of the pregame warmups to be back at the gear you need to be.

[Can't Never Tried]

So a consistant tough schedule keeps you at a higher playing level....IMO

[bringiton22]

boblee,

Seriously do you need to post a stupid responce like that. It is worthless to see something like that on a discussion that everyone else seems to enjoy discussing. Maybe my poll question was not worded how it needed to be, which is evident with the results. Everyone seems to be able to see both sides, and has been able to discuss this topic in a mature manor. Do you feel the need to throw your two cents in on EVERYTHING. If you do thats fine, and I usually enjoy reading what you have to say, and would have liked your input. But I don't think its necessary to tell someone their discussion question is stupid.

[boblee]

boblee,

Seriously do you need to post a stupid responce like that. It is worthless to see something like that on a discussion that everyone else seems to enjoy discussing. Maybe my poll question was not worded how it needed to be, which is evident with the results. Everyone seems to be able to see both sides, and has been able to discuss this topic in a mature manor. Do you feel the need to throw your two cents in on EVERYTHING. If you do thats fine, and I usually enjoy reading what you have to say, and would have liked your input. But I don't think its necessary to tell someone their discussion question is stupid.

What is the benefit of a weak schedule? I'd love to know. Cuz I will put in some real input here. Playing a tough schedule makes you a more prestigious team. It will help you in seedings, no doubt. It also helps you prepare for top level competition. You don't get ready for the big guns by playing Ely. You get ready for the big guns by playing the big guns. It helps this year, and it helps down the road. It makes you come to play your best night in and night out.

[bringiton22]

Ok boblee, I couldn't agree with you more. Playing the big guns will get you prepared to play either them, or another top class team. That we agree on. But to be honest I don't think you've read anything I've said besides my poll question.

You ask what the benefit of a weak schedule is. Then you talk about how you don't get ready for the "big guns" by playing Ely. Well no kidding boblee. I don't think I said anything even remotley close to that though. Now if I would have said....

Do you think a team like Hermantown or Marshall would benefit from playing Ely's schedule instead of their own? Then I could see what you are saying, and yes that would not benefit them one bit. But because everybody else seems to have read my earlier posts they understand what I'm saying.

I am also not saying that a complete cupcake schedule is going to be the secret ingrediant to making it to the state tournament. I am saying though that take for instance Hermantown and STA. Hermantowns schedule is not easy, they play some very good teams. But when compared with STA, Hermantowns schedule now looks very easy. I thought I was pretty clear in my previous posts about this, but I hope you understand what I was getting at.

Now for the discussion on this. What is better to have, a very tough schedule which can beat a team up mentally and physically but doesnt leave any question to the players of what its going to be like to face a team in the state tournament or section final when they get there. Or, does a lighter schedule which some teams choose to have benefit them, as they (again I'll use Hermantown for example) have also played state tournament caliber teams in Duluth Marshall, Hibbing, Cloquet, and Virginia.

[Irishmans Shanty]

The next time prestige wins a game it will be the first time. It may be important to a fan base and for Mom and Dad or a few grandparents, but prestige is as important to a result as where the bus is stopping for chow after the game.

You're right bob, there may not be advantages to playing Ely, but I don't think there are any disadvantges. Everyone needs a break sometimes, four months in the crosshairs every night the scoreboard is plugged in is asking a lot. For every kid that can do it, there are 2 that can't.

As far as seeding, when I've been at a table, I don't care what the W-L record is. My evaluation is on what they've done to me and what common opponents have done. Prestige never get my seed. You are what you are.

[HShockeywatcher]

As far as the "Ely" comments, look at Cloquet. They played Minnetonka on a Friday. But instead of just going back right after they scheduled a game the following day. After playing a team like Minnetonka, scheduling another top team less than 24 hours later would not be smart. They scheduled South St Paul. And they didn't win with the ease many better teams have. So there also needs to be some balance. Geography plays a role too. In MSHSL school comes first. So teams can't always be traveling and such. Sure a lake conference schedule is easily the best for teams that can play it, but would it be best for the development of Ely's players to play a Lake Conference schedule?

[gatzke]

I know people rip on the Rams for playing an easy schedule, and I would like to see them play more quality opponents. But when you are 5 hours from Duluth and 7 hours from the cities you can't afford to make a trip down there every weekend to play top notch teams. And it is equally as difficult to convice them to come up to the top of the state. I would like to see a more quality schedule, but its not gonna happen any time soon

[quickgym guy]

I know people rip on the Rams for playing an easy schedule, and I would like to see them play more quality opponents. But when you are 5 hours from Duluth and 7 hours from the cities you can't afford to make a trip down there every weekend to play top notch teams. And it is equally as difficult to convice them to come up to the top of the state. I would like to see a more quality schedule, but its not gonna happen any time soon

Agreed... School budgets are very tight nowdays.

[cu@darink]

They say there is no such thing as a stupid question. They were wrong. This was stupid. A difficult schedule is much more beneficial.

I agree to a point, however you need some easier games mixed in to work on things and try new things. Playing on the edge all the time doesn't alwasy help you do this. Younger players are helped the most in games where you are better. Blowouts do nothing for you however.

[Irishmans Shanty]

In terms of reaching their potential, I wonder how far TR's 2-0 victory over Hallock the other night will set them back this season? I'm sure driving across the state to get a date with Chaska, Hastings, or Stillwater instead would be the difference maker come Febrero.