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I still think Blyleven with those strikeout totals. Andre Dawson as well.

I also think that Blyleven should be in. I don't think he will get it this year but at some time he will finally get in. I believe Andre Dawson will get in this year. With this whole Mark McGwire thing this is how I look at it. If I could vote I would vote him in this year. It was never proven he took the juice! However, he won't get in this year but will the next year. Get use to this whole steroid thing for HOF voting because other players will be up for who got caught (Rafael Palmeiro) and suspected of it(Sammy Sosa). So this won't go away for a while.

Bert may end up being one of the best players not in the Hall of Fame. Considering his votes dropped from 277-261 this year, his only hope may be the veterans committee.

BB. Do you think staying around the game has helped or hurt Blyleven's chances of induction?

State Champ 97 wrote:BB. Do you think staying around the game has helped or hurt Blyleven's chances of induction?

That's a good question, and I honestly have no idea. On the one hand, his stint as a broadcaster in baseball may help his cause as he has continued to contribute after his playing days are over. On the other hand, some of his antics on-air may put off some voters. It's really hard to tell, but I would think overall it would probably help his chances considering he has stayed somewhat in the spotlight and continues to get public support as Hall of Fame worthy.

I am confused about Bert too and the HOF better start thinking about whats going to happen when all of these guys who now only start every 5th day are up and what their stats are going to look like.

Are we just going to induct closers from here on after guys like Clements are done?

After Clemens, Maddux, and Randy Johnson, there are really no sure-fire Hall Of Famers among starters in the bigs.

With the way pitchers are handled these days, I think the Hall of Fame benchmarks of 300 wins and 3,000 strikeouts are going to need to be reconsidered.

You look at a guy like Santana, and he has 3 of the more dominant years by a pitcher in recent memory. Yet he turns 28 before the season starts and has only 78 career wins. Say he pitches 10 more years, he would need to average 22 wins a season to get to the 300 win benchmark. That would be nearly unheard of on 4 days rest.

Exactly what I was talkin about.

There is no way Sanatana is ever going to win 300.

Are they going to start letting guys with 250 wins in ahead of Bert?

But how can a guy who is the top (whatever) in Ks not be in the HOF?

Glavine is a sure fire Hall of Famer, possibly Mussina will get to 300 wins as well. After that it's a buch of guys with less strikeouts and less wins than Bert; Schilling, Martinez, etc. They'll probably get in on name recognition but even then there are a few guys with more wins like Moyer and Wells who won't get in.

McGwyer only got 23% of the vote, including Pat Reusse's. If he doesn't get significantly better next year his hopes for the Hall may be just that hopes. I agree he's not a first ballot guy, but I was suprised at just how little support he received.

Blyleven once again did not make it. McGwire and Dawson also din't make the cut.

The all-time hits leader isn't in the "Hall of Lame",......why would the leader in Home Runs get voted in?

Pete didnt 'cheat' to get his hits. But he did gamble on baseball while he was still in the game. That was against the rules and he knew it. He also knew the seriousness of the offense.

Anybody who has been caught taking steroids or other banned enhancements after MLB banned them, should be ineligible for HOF.

Whats to argue?

There is no argument, just threw out a fact. The vote speaks for itself, doesn't it.

Its just a little bit interesting and ironic that a bunch of sportswriter are deciding, who is worthy of the BASEBALL "Hall of Lame", based on criteria off the field.

I wonder if the players, would vote any sportswriters in the Sportwriters "Hall of Lame",......or if any of the sportswriters ever used any unethical practice in their writings/reporting?

That's a good point Knowlzee. I am sure there are plenty of writers who have thrown ethics out the door when trying to get ahead in their profession. Very few, guys like Peter Gammons, seem to be unanimously respected within the sport.

I have issues with just about every Hall of Fame out there, but baseball has to be one of the biggest. The "baseball purists" that vote for this stuff really refuse to acknowledge a changing of the times and the fact that baseball is not going to be the same as it once was.

Pete didnt 'cheat' to get his hits.

No I don't think he did. If memory serves, he gambled when he was a manager not a player, but I could be wrong on that.

If baseball was serious about keeping people out that were using "little helpers" how do Gaylord Perry and Phil Neikro get in?

Its a good point Champ97.

It seems that some stuff is OK and other stuff is not. But I also think the lines are prety clear on what is and isnt "acceptable" cheating.

Do we keep Sosa out because of his corked bat incident?

We could go on and on.

As far as the writers judging the players, it is rather odd but what else can you do? Vote online?

HOFs are weird but I think football's is the worst. My reason in a nutshell? Dan Dierdorf ahead of Eller and Marshall?

Canseco got 1.1% hey. Just 73.9% short.

Champ97 may be confusing Phil with his brother Joe, who was caught redhanded on the mound with his "little helper" as aTwin in 1987,....but he makes a good point.

Baseball (sports) has many examples of "little helpers". What about the batter that scratches out the back line of the batter's box to see the pitch longer,......or Preacher Roe who admitted he got batters out with his spitball,......Gaylord and his vaseline,......Joe Niekro and his emery board,.....coaches' that steal signs,.....manager's that "work" the umpire,......I've heard of little league coaches that instruct kids, especially in single umpire games, to "cut the corner" on the base because the umpire can't see it,.....etc. I do not condone any of this, but I also have played, coached, and watched enough games, to know that unfortunately, it is part of the game, always has been, probably always will.

It just may be a little pompous and arrogant of a baseball commissioner and many sportswriters to use their power in futal attempts to dictate morality in athletes. And PB,....the sportswriters are the most qualified to do the "Hall of Lame" voting. It just would be refreshing if more would not take themselves so seriously. May be too much too expect,.....but I think Reusse gets it.

Champ97 may be confusing Phil with his brother Joe

I remember the infamous emery board incident. I also read about it in the Niekro Brother's biography. Phil wasn't exactly an angel. Knuckleballers have all kinds of tricks they use. Anyway, scratching the batter's box lines angeling your route around 1st or 3rd are all a part of the game. But technically they are cheating.