AAA hockey coming to Minnesota

[markp]

Having had a son that played in both out of state AAA travel and now H.S.Varsity here in Mn, it's going to have to be a joint effort by MN hockey and USA hockey. Both have different birth dates for Midgets and below (Jan1st for USA and July 30th for MN) which would have to be worked out. Remember H.S. is king in Mn and you can bet the H.S. league would have a say in changing it to Jan. 1st. ( which if I'm not mistaken is why we here in Mn are not a part of the new USA hockey birth years) We lived out of state when the "new" birth date came into effect for USA hockey and it really killed certain birth years. Certain PeeWee kids would only get 1 year of PeeWees when they need it most.( Imagine your first year PeeWee that's 5' tall and 100lbs having to play Bantam AAA after only one year of checking) Also,this would also put a kink into Shattuck's automatic berth for Nationals representing Mn. They would have to play to make it to the "show" finally.

[Judgeandjury]

All of you who keep "predicting" AAA will be here - its on its way - within 5 years, etc. are obviously not involved with MN Hockey at the state level. I would suggest that if you really feal strongly about this issue - which your posts suggests, you spend your time volunteering, and running for positions with MN hockey, instead of spending so much time yapping nonesense on this bored.

I suspect the majority of people that yap about AAA hockey, complain about their associations, complain about their hockey boards and complain about Minnesota hockey do little volunteering. Why get involved? It's easier to throw stones from a safe distance.

Breakout- Why is it always the parents fault? I think this is the main reason parents are bailing on association hockey. The topic is AAA hockey coming to Minnesota and you're pointing fingers at the parents. Are you kidding me? So in your hockey world you just labeled every parent at Minnesota made, SSM and Fire programs as stone throwers and complainers
I know many parents at Minnesota made and they have nothing but good things to say. Fire parents are very happy with that program. I'm sure parents have nothing but good things to say about SSM. Why look any deeper into it? If people are happy then let them be. If they leave your program and it doesn't work out they can always come back. It's called choices.

I'll say it again. If you're kind enough to volunteer to your association please make sure you allow enough time to answer questions. If you don't have the time then please do everyone a favor and don't volunteer. Communication is a key part of any community based program. The worst thing anyone volunteer can do is label parents or point fingers. Don't be part of the negativity be part of the solution.

[breakout]

All of you who keep "predicting" AAA will be here - its on its way - within 5 years, etc. are obviously not involved with MN Hockey at the state level. I would suggest that if you really feal strongly about this issue - which your posts suggests, you spend your time volunteering, and running for positions with MN hockey, instead of spending so much time yapping nonesense on this bored.

I suspect the majority of people that yap about AAA hockey, complain about their associations, complain about their hockey boards and complain about Minnesota hockey do little volunteering. Why get involved? It's easier to throw stones from a safe distance.

Breakout- Why is it always the parents fault? I think this is the main reason parents are bailing on association hockey. The topic is AAA hockey coming to Minnesota and you're pointing fingers at the parents. Are you kidding me? So in your hockey world you just labeled every parent at Minnesota made, SSM and Fire programs as stone throwers and complainers
I know many parents at Minnesota made and they have nothing but good things to say. Fire parents are very happy with that program. I'm sure parents have nothing but good things to say about SSM. Why look any deeper into it? If people are happy then let them be. If they leave your program and it doesn't work out they can always come back. It's called choices.

I'll say it again. If you're kind enough to volunteer to your association please make sure you allow enough time to answer questions. If you don't have the time then please do everyone a favor and don't volunteer. Communication is a key part of any community based program. The worst thing anyone volunteer can do is label parents or point fingers. Don't be part of the negativity be part of the solution.

Not every parent, I focused on the whiners and complainers.

[SSMCO]

Having had a son that played in both out of state AAA travel and now H.S.Varsity here in Mn, it's going to have to be a joint effort by MN hockey and USA hockey. Both have different birth dates for Midgets and below (Jan1st for USA and July 30th for MN) which would have to be worked out. Remember H.S. is king in Mn and you can bet the H.S. league would have a say in changing it to Jan. 1st. ( which if I'm not mistaken is why we here in Mn are not a part of the new USA hockey birth years) We lived out of state when the "new" birth date came into effect for USA hockey and it really killed certain birth years. Certain PeeWee kids would only get 1 year of PeeWees when they need it most.( Imagine your first year PeeWee that's 5' tall and 100lbs having to play Bantam AAA after only one year of checking) Also,this would also put a kink into Shattuck's automatic berth for Nationals representing Mn. They would have to play to make it to the "show" finally.

The SSM Tier 1 and Tier 2 Bantam, Midget, and Prep squads will play any team, any time, and any where. Top to bottom. Far from a kink-- we don't need an automatic berth-- the more the merrier. You don't win multiple or back to back National Titles by implied default-- you earn it. Fell free to contact Tom Ward for the opportunity.

[markp]

Yes SSM has won many titles for a very good program, however, can you really say you represent Mn when the majority of your players are from out of state and are activley recruited!!! Don't tell they don't, my son and I were contacted by J.D.Parise prior to our move up here. I do agree the more the merrier would be a good thing and you may have misunderstood my post. What I was implying was it will be a tough sell to get the H.S. side to agree to change the birthdate to make this happen and that a state wide tourney would be a great thing. And as usual, anyone states anything that is the least bit negative about SSM and it's all out war....Just take a breath an relax. Had we not moved up here my son would have been there as well.

[breakout]

Let me get this straight. J.P. coaches in Des Moines, J.D. is the A.D. at SSM.
I am confused

[Blue&Gold]

Let me get this straight. J.P. coaches in Des Moines, J.D. is the A.D. at SSM.
I am confused

JP was at SSM up to the time that he took over in Des Moines.

Keep in mind that it costs a lot of $$$$$ to play at SSM. And I can tell you stories... but for some it's a great place.

[Starbuckmom]

From the Minnesota Hockey site Parents Page:

Parents, did you know that there were 35,324 boys and 8,361 girls registered to play youth hockey in Minnesota last season? Did you kow that there were about 6,200 boys and 3,900 girls playing high school hockey? Did you know that there were about 250 Minnesota boys and about 95 Minnesota girls on D1 college hockey rosters? Did you know there were 20 Minnesota born players in the NHL and that the first professional women's team in Minnesota began only this year?
The chances of your son or daughter getting a D1 college scholarship is minute. The chances of your son or daughter playing professional hockey are miniscule.While children can and should have dreams they, and you, should understand the long odds that exist. They, and you, should also understand the hours and years of hard work involved beyond scheduled practices and games in order to make those dreams come true.
Hockey should be fun for kids, not work! After all, it is a game.

When did we lose sight of the fact that these are kids we are talking about? MN has incredible hockey associations without AAA being a factor and if you are not happy with your home association there are other options out there if you choose. What parents loose sight of is that this time in our kid's life is a blip on a radar! If you can honestly say that you believe that your child has a chance at the age of 10, 11, 12 of making a NHL team (which I am assuming is your ultimate goal?) then more power to you, but for those of us that have tangible dreams for our kids - like trying to balance grades, sports, health and the happiness of our child - how about we just enjoy the ride? Enjoy youth hockey for what it is in any venue AAA or Association - youth hockey.
Have a happy new year!

[Judgeandjury]

From the Minnesota Hockey site Parents Page:

Parents, did you know that there were 35,324 boys and 8,361 girls registered to play youth hockey in Minnesota last season? Did you kow that there were about 6,200 boys and 3,900 girls playing high school hockey? Did you know that there were about 250 Minnesota boys and about 95 Minnesota girls on D1 college hockey rosters? Did you know there were 20 Minnesota born players in the NHL and that the first professional women's team in Minnesota began only this year?
The chances of your son or daughter getting a D1 college scholarship is minute. The chances of your son or daughter playing professional hockey are miniscule.While children can and should have dreams they, and you, should understand the long odds that exist. They, and you, should also understand the hours and years of hard work involved beyond scheduled practices and games in order to make those dreams come true.
Hockey should be fun for kids, not work! After all, it is a game.

When did we lose sight of the fact that these are kids we are talking about? MN has incredible hockey associations without AAA being a factor and if you are not happy with your home association there are other options out there if you choose. What parents loose sight of is that this time in our kid's life is a blip on a radar! If you can honestly say that you believe that your child has a chance at the age of 10, 11, 12 of making a NHL team (which I am assuming is your ultimate goal?) then more power to you, but for those of us that have tangible dreams for our kids - like trying to balance grades, sports, health and the happiness of our child - how about we just enjoy the ride? Enjoy youth hockey for what it is in any venue AAA or Association - youth hockey.
Have a happy new year!

Starbuckmom- Why do people automatically think that by sending your kids to Minnesota made, Fire, SSM that we all have dreams of kids playing DI or Pro hockey? AAA hockey would be a welcomed site for many people.
I've talked to many people in the Minnesota made or Fire programs and they like the development aspect of these programs. It's not about the parents dreams it's all about the kids dream. I guess if your kids could benefit by going to private school then parents have to make that choice. Is this also wrong? We go to church in another city and my son is involved in their Cub scout program. Is this wrong?
As a parents I thought our goal was to develop our kids in family, church, school, community and athletics. I'm sending my son to Minnesota made next year to benefit his hockey skills. As far as I'm concerned our family will meet new kids, parents and coaches. With that said my son has the same amount of friends in our city. In fact many of his buddies played or play hockey at Minnesota made. But please do people a favor and spare them on the DI and Pro parents dream aspect. Sure I'm sure some parents have that dream but please don't be part of the problem and label parents because they send their kids to a different program. You're starting to sound like a board member. If association works for your family then more power to you. With that said keep in mind that all associations are different I don't care what anyone says.

Let me ask why do you suppose that the same associatons annually develop stronger teams each and every year? It's not the drinking water its called being organized on the front end and coaching. Association hockey has to cater to the parents. At Minnesota made the kids have to tryout to play in the Choice league. Each team will have kids that can skate versus weaker skaters.

You wrote: MN has incredible hockey associations without AAA being a factor and if you are not happy with your home association there are other options out there if you choose.

Please share what other options are available if I'm not happy with our association? I can tell you that our association will NOT sign off on moving a player to a new program.

Happy New Years!

[DMom]

From the Minnesota Hockey site Parents Page:

Parents, did you know that there were 35,324 boys and 8,361 girls registered to play youth hockey in Minnesota last season? Did you kow that there were about 6,200 boys and 3,900 girls playing high school hockey? Did you know that there were about 250 Minnesota boys and about 95 Minnesota girls on D1 college hockey rosters? Did you know there were 20 Minnesota born players in the NHL and that the first professional women's team in Minnesota began only this year?
The chances of your son or daughter getting a D1 college scholarship is minute. The chances of your son or daughter playing professional hockey are miniscule.While children can and should have dreams they, and you, should understand the long odds that exist. They, and you, should also understand the hours and years of hard work involved beyond scheduled practices and games in order to make those dreams come true.
Hockey should be fun for kids, not work! After all, it is a game.

When did we lose sight of the fact that these are kids we are talking about? MN has incredible hockey associations without AAA being a factor and if you are not happy with your home association there are other options out there if you choose. What parents loose sight of is that this time in our kid's life is a blip on a radar! If you can honestly say that you believe that your child has a chance at the age of 10, 11, 12 of making a NHL team (which I am assuming is your ultimate goal?) then more power to you, but for those of us that have tangible dreams for our kids - like trying to balance grades, sports, health and the happiness of our child - how about we just enjoy the ride? Enjoy youth hockey for what it is in any venue AAA or Association - youth hockey.
Have a happy new year!

Starbuckmom- Why do people automatically think that by sending your kids to Minnesota made, Fire, SSM that we all have dreams of kids playing DI or Pro hockey? AAA hockey would be a welcomed site for many people.
I've talked to many people in the Minnesota made or Fire programs and they like the development aspect of these programs. It's not about the parents dreams it's all about the kids dream. I guess if your kids could benefit by going to private school then parents have to make that choice. Is this also wrong? We go to church in another city and my son is involved in their Cub scout program. Is this wrong?
As a parents I thought our goal was to develop our kids in family, church, school, community and athletics. I'm sending my son to Minnesota made next year to benefit his hockey skills. As far as I'm concerned our family will meet new kids, parents and coaches. With that said my son has the same amount of friends in our city. In fact many of his buddies played or play hockey at Minnesota made. But please do people a favor and spare them on the DI and Pro parents dream aspect. Sure I'm sure some parents have that dream but please don't be part of the problem and label parents because they send their kids to a different program. You're starting to sound like a board member. If association works for your family then more power to you. With that said keep in mind that all associations are different I don't care what anyone says.

Let me ask why do you suppose that the same associatons annually develop stronger teams each and every year? It's not the drinking water its called being organized on the front end and coaching. Association hockey has to cater to the parents. At Minnesota made the kids have to tryout to play in the Choice league. Each team will have kids that can skate versus weaker skaters.

You wrote: MN has incredible hockey associations without AAA being a factor and if you are not happy with your home association there are other options out there if you choose.

Please share what other options are available if I'm not happy with our association? I can tell you that our association will NOT sign off on moving a player to a new program.

Happy New Years!

Didn't you just list all of the options?

[Starbuckmom]

It is unfortunate that your association will not sign off on your child moving to a different venue. I do believe that it is the families decision as to where your child attends school, social gatherings, church, sports, etc. And if there is something that is not working for you then you should have the choice to choose something different.
I am not against AAA coming to Minnesota but we have been doing pretty good up until now without them. Your right, some associations have their act together and some don't. But as a majority I believe that they are doing the best that they can. I have seen many A, B, and C teams play and honestly there are kids with strengths and weaknesses in all levels. I believe that children can actually learn from being on a team of kids that may not have the same skill level as their own - be it stronger or weaker. In the end it is your choice to put your child in the place that you feel would best benefit them - but the question we need to ask is why we are putting them there in the first place.
Like DMom indicated I believe that you are well aware of the different options that I was talking about because you listed most of them.
You indicated that you will be sending your son to MM next year to "Benefit his hockey skills", and then tell me to spare you on the D1 and Pro Parents dream aspect - so let me ask you - what is the end result that you are looking for by improving his skills?

[muckandgrind]

It is unfortunate that your association will not sign off on your child moving to a different venue. I do believe that it is the families decision as to where your child attends school, social gatherings, church, sports, etc. And if there is something that is not working for you then you should have the choice to choose something different.
I am not against AAA coming to Minnesota but we have been doing pretty good up until now without them. Your right, some associations have their act together and some don't. But as a majority I believe that they are doing the best that they can. I have seen many A, B, and C teams play and honestly there are kids with strengths and weaknesses in all levels. I believe that children can actually learn from being on a team of kids that may not have the same skill level as their own - be it stronger or weaker. In the end it is your choice to put your child in the place that you feel would best benefit them - but the question we need to ask is why we are putting them there in the first place.
Like DMom indicated I believe that you are well aware of the different options that I was talking about because you listed most of them.
You indicated that you will be sending your son to MM next year to "Benefit his hockey skills", and then tell me to spare you on the D1 and Pro Parents dream aspect - so let me ask you - what is the end result that you are looking for by improving his skills?

Should a parent who wants to send their child to a better piano instructor be accused of developing their child with the hopes of them one day playing at Carnegie Hall? Of course not!!

It's all about the experience, and yes development. You're assuming D1 or NHL is the goal, but how about the Varsity team in High School? There is nothing wrong with parents wanting to provide the best possible experience for their kids whether that be in sports, academics, music, or any other hobby. Is this so wrong???

[Judgeandjury]

It is unfortunate that your association will not sign off on your child moving to a different venue. I do believe that it is the families decision as to where your child attends school, social gatherings, church, sports, etc. And if there is something that is not working for you then you should have the choice to choose something different.
I am not against AAA coming to Minnesota but we have been doing pretty good up until now without them. Your right, some associations have their act together and some don't. But as a majority I believe that they are doing the best that they can. I have seen many A, B, and C teams play and honestly there are kids with strengths and weaknesses in all levels. I believe that children can actually learn from being on a team of kids that may not have the same skill level as their own - be it stronger or weaker. In the end it is your choice to put your child in the place that you feel would best benefit them - but the question we need to ask is why we are putting them there in the first place.
Like DMom indicated I believe that you are well aware of the different options that I was talking about because you listed most of them.
You indicated that you will be sending your son to MM next year to "Benefit his hockey skills", and then tell me to spare you on the D1 and Pro Parents dream aspect - so let me ask you - what is the end result that you are looking for by improving his skills?

Should a parent who wants to send their child to a better piano instructor be accused of developing their child with the hopes of them one day playing at Carnegie Hall? Of course not!!

It's all about the experience, and yes development. You're assuming D1 or NHL is the goal, but how about the Varsity team in High School? There is nothing wrong with parents wanting to provide the best possible experience for their kids whether that be in sports, academics, music, or any other hobby. Is this so wrong???

Completely agree! My son dreams to play hockey for either Minnesota or Notre Dame some day. I want him to have fun playing hockey. My goal is to make it fun and give him the tools to succeed. My outlook is for him to play on the best teams he can all the way through. I'll be proud on what ever team he makes.
AAA hockey coming to Minnesota won't change a thing.

Associations- There's a reason why kids are leaving your association. I suggest contacting the families who chose to bail on your program.

A) Ask them why they left?
B) Ask them what changes they feel would help the association so more kids don't leave in the future. Work with the parents versus labeling the parents.

[Marty McSorely]

What about Midget AAA being the MSHSL transfer rules? Kids with crappy teams or coaches could play U18 Midgets and further their careers.

[Starbuckmom]

Muckandgrind: I was seriously interested in the response to what the end result is that people are looking for when sending their child to another venue. Like I said earlier "if there is something that is not working for you then you should have the choice to choose something different." My fear is that a lot of parents don't set realistic goals for their childs future or to put in to perspective what is really important. I think that sometimes we get so wrapped up in trying to be the best that we don't take a look at what we are doing to our children. I have on numerous occasions watched a child cry when having to go to yet another practice or yet another game and their parents still shove them in the car to head to the rink. That said, I have also seen the child that is constantly in his drive way working on his stick handeling when he is not on the ice because he has the drive and determination. Children are all different, and different venues will work differently for different kids.

As far as our children hoping to play for a D1 school or go pro, again look at the numbers! The odds of this happening is slim and none. In fact, in a lot of cities the odds of your child making the Varsity team are extrememly limited. What happens after all of the time, energy and effort put in and your child does not make the Varsity team? What will you tell them? And what if your child decides that at 15 or 16 they don't want to play anymore? That is when you have to look in the mirror and figure out whose goal this has been in the first place - you or your child. If you ask any college or pro hockey player what they remember most about their experience in youth hockey most likely it would be their first away tournament, playing with their friends, the fun they had.

I am all for parents wanting to provide the best possible experience for their kids but believe that children would learn more and get more out of the experience of not always having the best team, the best skaters, or the best coaching. That is my opinion and it is not right or wrong. As yours is not either.

Associations need to work together to determine what works and what does not work. I agree with Judgeandjury that those that are struggling and losing numbers need to ask themselves why and improve on it.

[muckandgrind]

Muckandgrind: I was seriously interested in the response to what the end result is that people are looking for when sending their child to another venue. Like I said earlier "if there is something that is not working for you then you should have the choice to choose something different." My fear is that a lot of parents don't set realistic goals for their childs future or to put in to perspective what is really important. I think that sometimes we get so wrapped up in trying to be the best that we don't take a look at what we are doing to our children. I have on numerous occasions watched a child cry when having to go to yet another practice or yet another game and their parents still shove them in the car to head to the rink. That said, I have also seen the child that is constantly in his drive way working on his stick handeling when he is not on the ice because he has the drive and determination. Children are all different, and different venues will work differently for different kids.

As far as our children hoping to play for a D1 school or go pro, again look at the numbers! The odds of this happening is slim and none. In fact, in a lot of cities the odds of your child making the Varsity team are extrememly limited. What happens after all of the time, energy and effort put in and your child does not make the Varsity team? What will you tell them? And what if your child decides that at 15 or 16 they don't want to play anymore? That is when you have to look in the mirror and figure out whose goal this has been in the first place - you or your child. If you ask any college or pro hockey player what they remember most about their experience in youth hockey most likely it would be their first away tournament, playing with their friends, the fun they had.

I am all for parents wanting to provide the best possible experience for their kids but believe that children would learn more and get more out of the experience of not always having the best team, the best skaters, or the best coaching. That is my opinion and it is not right or wrong. As yours is not either.

Associations need to work together to determine what works and what does not work. I agree with Judgeandjury that those that are struggling and losing numbers need to ask themselves why and improve on it.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I and other parents who look for better opportunities for our kids get awfully tired of being preached to by other "well meaning" hockey parents....

Everyone is EXTREMELY aware of how slim the odds are of a kid making it to D1 or the NHL (or even HS in some areas). I'm not a new hockey parent and have been around the game all my life. But there is nothing wrong with kids having the hope or dream of playing for the Gophers or in the NHL someday...that is completely healthy and we should encourage them to follow their dreams. I don't believe we SHOULD tell them to be "realistic" in their hopes and dreams...how fun would that be for the kids? Should they instead dream about getting their degree and working a 9-5 job at 3M? Aren't dreams and hopes SUPPOSED to be about things that are high reaching and difficult to achieve?

When I was a kid, I wanted to be a Yankee like Mickey Mantle. My dad never sat me down and told me: "Son, you need to be more realistic in your dreams. Instead of Mickey Mantle, how about you dream about being a Sr Systems Analyst for some corporation, instead?" No, he just patted my on the head and said "Son, with hard work and determination, you can be who ever you want to be." As I got older I found out for myself that I probably wasn't going to be Mickey Mantle and I would have to make my own way in life. This is part of the learning and growing process that kids have to deal with on their own.

You have your opinions, which are fine and I'll never preach to you and say you are doing wrong by your child, just don't try and do the same with me and others who choose to go a different route.

Like you say, every child is different....I think WE ALL KNOW THAT!!! Some kids have more drive and desire to succeed and some don't. It's up to each parent to read their child. There is no "right way" or "wrong way".

My older son has more fun playing AAA than he does playing association hockey and I'm OK with that. My younger son feels differently, and I'm OK with that also. What bothers me is the fact that just because we choose to allow our kids to play AAA or wish for more options for our kids, we get all these "do-gooders" who feel the need to preach to us about "what's really important in life".

For the record, I have never dragged any of my boys crying to hockey practice and I don't think my son will play D1 or the NHL in the future and I have met very few parents who think differently. But both my boys have hopes and dreams of playing for the Gophers or Wild and I think it's great that they have those dreams and I would never do anything to discourage them from dreaming. One day, soon enough, they'll come to realize ON THEIR OWN that they probably won't play for the Gophers or Wild.

Again, don't take this the wrong way, it's just that me and other like-minded parents just get sick of being preached to about things we already understand.

[Judgeandjury]

Muckandgrind: I was seriously interested in the response to what the end result is that people are looking for when sending their child to another venue. Like I said earlier "if there is something that is not working for you then you should have the choice to choose something different." My fear is that a lot of parents don't set realistic goals for their childs future or to put in to perspective what is really important. I think that sometimes we get so wrapped up in trying to be the best that we don't take a look at what we are doing to our children. I have on numerous occasions watched a child cry when having to go to yet another practice or yet another game and their parents still shove them in the car to head to the rink. That said, I have also seen the child that is constantly in his drive way working on his stick handeling when he is not on the ice because he has the drive and determination. Children are all different, and different venues will work differently for different kids.

As far as our children hoping to play for a D1 school or go pro, again look at the numbers! The odds of this happening is slim and none. In fact, in a lot of cities the odds of your child making the Varsity team are extrememly limited. What happens after all of the time, energy and effort put in and your child does not make the Varsity team? What will you tell them? And what if your child decides that at 15 or 16 they don't want to play anymore? That is when you have to look in the mirror and figure out whose goal this has been in the first place - you or your child. If you ask any college or pro hockey player what they remember most about their experience in youth hockey most likely it would be their first away tournament, playing with their friends, the fun they had.

I am all for parents wanting to provide the best possible experience for their kids but believe that children would learn more and get more out of the experience of not always having the best team, the best skaters, or the best coaching. That is my opinion and it is not right or wrong. As yours is not either.

Associations need to work together to determine what works and what does not work. I agree with Judgeandjury that those that are struggling and losing numbers need to ask themselves why and improve on it.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I and other parents who look for better opportunities for our kids get awfully tired of being preached to by other "well meaning" hockey parents....

Everyone is EXTREMELY aware of how slim the odds are of a kid making it to D1 or the NHL (or even HS in some areas). I'm not a new hockey parent and have been around the game all my life. But there is nothing wrong with kids having the hope or dream of playing for the Gophers or in the NHL someday...that is completely healthy and we should encourage them to follow their dreams. I don't believe we SHOULD tell them to be "realistic" in their hopes and dreams...how fun would that be for the kids? Should they instead dream about getting their degree and working a 9-5 job at 3M? Aren't dreams and hopes SUPPOSED to be about things that are high reaching and difficult to achieve?

When I was a kid, I wanted to be a Yankee like Mickey Mantle. My dad never sat me down and told me: "Son, you need to be more realistic in your dreams. Instead of Mickey Mantle, how about you dream about being a Sr Systems Analyst for some corporation, instead?" No, he just patted my on the head and said "Son, with hard work and determination, you can be who ever you want to be." As I got older I found out for myself that I probably wasn't going to be Mickey Mantle and I would have to make my own way in life. This is part of the learning and growing process that kids have to deal with on their own.

You have your opinions, which are fine and I'll never preach to you and say you are doing wrong by your child, just don't try and do the same with me and others who choose to go a different route.

Like you say, every child is different....I think WE ALL KNOW THAT!!! Some kids have more drive and desire to succeed and some don't. It's up to each parent to read their child. There is no "right way" or "wrong way".

My older son has more fun playing AAA than he does playing association hockey and I'm OK with that. My younger son feels differently, and I'm OK with that also. What bothers me is the fact that just because we choose to allow our kids to play AAA or wish for more options for our kids, we get all these "do-gooders" who feel the need to preach to us about "what's really important in life".

For the record, I have never dragged any of my boys crying to hockey practice and I don't think my son will play D1 or the NHL in the future and I have met very few parents who think differently. But both my boys have hopes and dreams of playing for the Gophers or Wild and I think it's great that they have those dreams and I would never do anything to discourage them from dreaming. One day, soon enough, they'll come to realize ON THEIR OWN that they probably won't play for the Gophers or Wild.

Again, don't take this the wrong way, it's just that me and other like-minded parents just get sick of being preached to about things we already understand.

[YBNOFUN]

muckandgrind, greatest post I have seen so far. Kudos

[itsmorefun]

muckandgrind...

Impressive Post! You read my mind! It's so interesting how Pro AAA people NEVER tell Pro Association people that the choices they make are wrong, but Pro Associationers are always trying to preach...


It's all about choice and families should have it. Period.

[hockeygirl2]

This is a lively topic and I couldn't resist throwing in my two cents worth. I think the point Starbuckmom is trying to make is that please don't tell us that your children made the decision to play elsewhere because of the development. I am not trying to insult the parents who do have their kids play elsewhere because I think the parents can make the choice. But please do not insult the rest of us and try and convince us that this is your kid's choice. In saying this, I am not talking about the older kids, I am talking about the younger kids playing mites and squirts (8, 9, 10 year olds). The point is the final decision was made by the parents because they want their kids to develop, and there's nothing wrong with that. What is forgotten by the parents trying to convince us all that the kids made the choice is that the kids mental make-up at this stage in their life is, essentially, unable to make a well thought out and rational decision. They may play elsewhere because a friend goes somewhere else, or something. Virtually every kid will have no idea how an association is run, whether it be good or bad, and what development truly means when comparing "ice time." Sorry to say this, but kids are unable to have a thought process, at this age, that tells them in order to play for Minnesota or in the NHL, they must choose a program with 100 plus hourws of ice over a program with less then 100 hours. If a child says things like this it is information being provided to them by the parents along with the deciusion the parent has made. Before all of you presume this is bashing the parents who have decided to do something else, it is not. One must assume the choice you have made is what you believe to be best for your child. But please do not try and claim the decision being made is anyones but yours. Thats it.

[muckandgrind]

This is a lively topic and I couldn't resist throwing in my two cents worth. I think the point Starbuckmom is trying to make is that please don't tell us that your children made the decision to play elsewhere because of the development. I am not trying to insult the parents who do have their kids play elsewhere because I think the parents can make the choice. But please do not insult the rest of us and try and convince us that this is your kid's choice. In saying this, I am not talking about the older kids, I am talking about the younger kids playing mites and squirts (8, 9, 10 year olds). The point is the final decision was made by the parents because they want their kids to develop, and there's nothing wrong with that. What is forgotten by the parents trying to convince us all that the kids made the choice is that the kids mental make-up at this stage in their life is, essentially, unable to make a well thought out and rational decision. They may play elsewhere because a friend goes somewhere else, or something. Virtually every kid will have no idea how an association is run, whether it be good or bad, and what development truly means when comparing "ice time." Sorry to say this, but kids are unable to have a thought process, at this age, that tells them in order to play for Minnesota or in the NHL, they must choose a program with 100 plus hourws of ice over a program with less then 100 hours. If a child says things like this it is information being provided to them by the parents along with the deciusion the parent has made. Before all of you presume this is bashing the parents who have decided to do something else, it is not. One must assume the choice you have made is what you believe to be best for your child. But please do not try and claim the decision being made is anyones but yours. Thats it.

That's true, but kids can understand which route is more fun for them if they are exposed to different situations. I exposed my older son to offseason AAA and he enjoys that more than playing association hockey...my younger son, liked it but prefers playing with his association team. So he doesn't play AAA in the summer, but instead plays spring and fall leagues with his association friends. I give them the opportunity and they tell me what they think of it and we move forward from there, it ain't rocket science.

People need to realize that kids are more perceptive than some believe, they're not some drooling little idiots...mine aren't, anyways.

[hockeygirl2]

Muckandgrind, I am primarily talking about the kids in the 8, 9, 10 year old range. Kids of this age group are perceptive. But perception comes from learning. They are perceptive because they hear parents or other adults (or older kids) talk about experiences. Perception comes from life experience. I have no doubt that your older son has fun playing with his team. But if your son is in this age range, he does not have the mental capacity to sift through whether he should play for his association or elsewhere. He does not know whether the association is run poorly or is run well without hearing it from most likely a parent. They have no life experience to base an opinion on. They also are unable to process the whole thought of development versus recreational. They have no idea whether you need more then 100 hours of ice or less then 100 hours of ice. For those who claim their children know, it is because they have been told this, most likely again by a parent. They then echo the opinion of the authority from which they heard the information. An 8, 9, or 10 year old may enjoy playing on a non-association team, but the initial decision to play somewhere else is made by the parent. The children of this age do not have sufficient life experiences to make this decision on their own. I am not complaining about decisions you and your children made because parents should be free to do this. But the decisions being made for kids in this age group are being made by the parents, and there is nothing wrong with this.

My own opinion is that kids in this age group are really missing out by not playing with their friends in their own association at this young age. I have heard that at Minnesota Made the squirts and mites play 30 games and 3 or so tournaments against their other 3 in house teams. You can say what you will, but the overwhelming majority of the kids playing with their associations at the squirt age are having more fun traveling and playing with friends from school then the kids who play the same 3 teams day in and day out. Right or wrong, this is what others are saying when they state what experience kids are missing out on when they don't play for their associations. I have seen it first hand, and in the end there will be little or no difference between the squirt age kids who stayed with their associations versus those who did their own thing, when they get to bantams and high school. What I think fools some parents is that because they think their child looks more advanced at this young age, that it will continue as they get older. As many of you know with older kids, it won't. The kids who are athletically talented will be there regardless of where they played growing up. The only difference is how each child got there. To each his own when it comes to that.

[muckandgrind]

Muckandgrind, I am primarily talking about the kids in the 8, 9, 10 year old range. Kids of this age group are perceptive. But perception comes from learning. They are perceptive because they hear parents or other adults (or older kids) talk about experiences. Perception comes from life experience. I have no doubt that your older son has fun playing with his team. But if your son is in this age range, he does not have the mental capacity to sift through whether he should play for his association or elsewhere. He does not know whether the association is run poorly or is run well without hearing it from most likely a parent. They have no life experience to base an opinion on. They also are unable to process the whole thought of development versus recreational. They have no idea whether you need more then 100 hours of ice or less then 100 hours of ice. For those who claim their children know, it is because they have been told this, most likely again by a parent. They then echo the opinion of the authority from which they heard the information. An 8, 9, or 10 year old may enjoy playing on a non-association team, but the initial decision to play somewhere else is made by the parent. The children of this age do not have sufficient life experiences to make this decision on their own. I am not complaining about decisions you and your children made because parents should be free to do this. But the decisions being made for kids in this age group are being made by the parents, and there is nothing wrong with this.

My own opinion is that kids in this age group are really missing out by not playing with their friends in their own association at this young age. I have heard that at Minnesota Made the squirts and mites play 30 games and 3 or so tournaments against their other 3 in house teams. You can say what you will, but the overwhelming majority of the kids playing with their associations at the squirt age are having more fun traveling and playing with friends from school then the kids who play the same 3 teams day in and day out. Right or wrong, this is what others are saying when they state what experience kids are missing out on when they don't play for their associations. I have seen it first hand, and in the end there will be little or no difference between the squirt age kids who stayed with their associations versus those who did their own thing, when they get to bantams and high school. What I think fools some parents is that because they think their child looks more advanced at this young age, that it will continue as they get older. As many of you know with older kids, it won't. The kids who are athletically talented will be there regardless of where they played growing up. The only difference is how each child got there. To each his own when it comes to that.

That's your opinion and you are certainly entitiled to it, but what if your kids went to a private school outside of your local association boundaries and all your kid's friends played for a different association than the one you were forced to play for....would your opinion change then?

[AimHigh]

My own opinion is that kids in this age group are really missing out by not playing with their friends in their own association at this young age. I have heard that at Minnesota Made the squirts and mites play 30 games and 3 or so tournaments against their other 3 in house teams. You can say what you will, but the overwhelming majority of the kids playing with their associations at the squirt age are having more fun traveling and playing with friends from school then the kids who play the same 3 teams day in and day out. Right or wrong, this is what others are saying when they state what experience kids are missing out on when they don't play for their associations. I have seen it first hand, and in the end there will be little or no difference between the squirt age kids who stayed with their associations versus those who did their own thing, when they get to bantams and high school. What I think fools some parents is that because they think their child looks more advanced at this young age, that it will continue as they get older. As many of you know with older kids, it won't. The kids who are athletically talented will be there regardless of where they played growing up. The only difference is how each child got there. To each his own when it comes to that.

That's your opinion and you are certainly entitiled to it, but what if your kids went to a private school outside of your local association boundaries and all your kid's friends played for a different association than the one you were forced to play for....would your opinion change then?

Muckandgrind - in that case, wouldn't the kid benefit from the many varied friendships and experiences he and his parents would develop with kids from all over, not just his school? At least that's the argument for AAA that's been advanced on the board in the past.

Now that we all know that you "get it", why don't you answer the question - why are you doing it? Starbuckmom asked that several times, respectfully, not preaching, and you still haven't answered.

Many of us, myself included, would like the answer. Judgeandjury answered it, why not you?

My son's team just played a Tier I team from outstate. One of the parents told us that they spend upward to $30k a year with fees, travel, etc., not to mention the time involved and impact on the families. The siblings in the stands did not look so thrilled that they were there. Also, they start their season in August, so no fall sports for those kids.

Why?

When Sally's mom spends exorbitant fees for piano lessons for Sally's hopes to reach Carnegie Hall or to be the next Lorie Line, or just to say she's an accomplished pianist, that doesn't effect Sally's other piano playing friends.

When the AAA proponents push Minnesota Hockey to allow Tier I during winter season, it effects all the kids playing winter hockey. The fees/time/travel involved preclude the great majority of kids in Minnesota from participation. It also takes away the opportunities and development from those kids that are good enough to play at that level but can't participate because of cost, time and travel.

What would you do if your kid didn't make the cut for the Tier I MN Team? Would you stoop so low as to have him return to Association hockey in the winter or push for more Tier I teams?

You may be tired of the preaching so-called do-gooders, but I can tell you there are just as many hockey parents who are tired of the arrogance of the parents sending the message that "my kid (and me) are better than to have to put up with association hockey (and the rest of you).

So rather than dodge the question, why not answer it. Maybe then you and your like-minded friends won't be so misunderstood.

[hockeygirl2]

Muck and grind
I respect the decision that you have made with respect to hockey and the kids. The piano example is like comparing apples to oranges. piano is done individually and is not something a person would do with others. My daughter plays piano and she would have no idea who to get lessons from. In your example it would still be the parents who are making the decision to send their child to the specific instructor.

My opinion wouldn't change in your example, but I do respect yours.

What is interesting for the parents who do claim there children have made the choice at this young age is to ask the question how? Judgeand Jury asks questions and claims his son or daughter made the choice to play for a different team on there own. If J&J son or daughter is playing for the Minnesota Made squirt teams, they would have absolutely no idea what it is like playing for there own association and traveling with their team. The child would have nothing to compare playing somewhere else and playing for there own association. This is my only point. Please do not claim that children of this age are making these decisions on where to play. It is the parents.

Why parents are making this decision is a whole other topic. Some do it for good reasons, some do it for selfish reasons, and some do it because they just don't know any better. Because the association hockey is the program set up in Minnesota, it unfortunately falls upon those who do something different to have to defend themselves for decisions they have made. Good luck Muckandgrind and I really hope you and your kids well in their hockey pursuits!!