Just watched the last game of the State tourney and could not believe the team of Green & White shortened their bench to win in 3 OTs? Is this acceptable at this level? What would other associations do? I was under the impression we are trying to develop our young girls to know and understand how to play in all situations so when they are older they are better developed and know the game of hockey and the situations they will face.
I guess you can play a certain 6 girls and have the same unit play all their power plays sacrificing the rest of the team as long as you win?
A great game by both teams, but I was shocked at the level of the bench shortening by their coaches, Eagan rolled all their lines. Great job by their coaching staff. I wonder if this association allows for this bench shortening and win at all cost attitude. I know if our coaches implored this concept they would be removed from coaching for this behavior. I guess Championships are more important than a girl's self-esteem and feeling part of a team and the win. Really feel sorry for all those girls who were benched for almost two periods of hockey.
Good luck to the Green & White Team your team should be proud the way you win
Going up to glass tugging on your jersey to the WBL parents and shakopee girls watching after you score a lucky goal with a min left in the game.
Completely classless! No surprise you see this character from this Edina team and their coaches. Another example why no one can stand the smug attitude of Edina.
WBL coaches had a lot to say after the game and they should. Why the refs did not throw these girls in the box for this poor sportsmanship, they must have been completely caught of guard.
Go get um Sabres!!!!!!!!! Kick some Green A........
You couldn't be any further from the truth about the Edina coaching staff. The head coach is all about development and sportsmanship. Our girl played for him a couple years back and learned as much or more from him and his staff as in any of her 10 years in hockey.
That is a very good insight on development. 80% of their goals were scored by a player who played the majority of all their tourny games and does not even live in Edina They go to school in Edina so she can play for this team and people complain about the privates?
You are correct when you say how we'll they are developed and balanced. If true why not play all three lines equally and not this player in every situation?
Peter's right. My kids have competed against Edina at this level in the recent past and while the girls do get good coaching and have scheduled practices more often than probably any team in the state at their level, the coach consistently shortens the bench or gives the better players significantly more ice time in close/important games. I've seen it happen many, many times in league and tournament games. That said, Edina is not the only association that does this. Chan/Chaska does it too, even at the younger ages. I've been to U10 games where certain less skilled players might see only a few shifts in a game if things are close and the outcome is important. This practice doesn't seem to bother anybody in these associations enough to make changes, and I guess it's no one's business but theirs how they run things.
I was at the Edina vs White Bear Lake game. I was hoping to see a great hockey game........which it was until the Edina players went to the opposing teams fan section and snapped their jerseys, not just once, but twice! It was not only the most disgusting display of sportsmanship but also whatever respect any spectator may have had for Edina as a great hockey program, will now surely be overshadowed by the pampas display of elitism! Shame, shame!
Unfortunately, I will not remember the game as it was played but for the unbelievable display put on by Edina.
As a side note, apparently there was some bad blood because Shakopee was cheering for White Bear Lake. I was sitting near the Shakopee team and they never once booed or cheered negatively toward Edina, they simply were supporting WBL.
Now that great coaching staff from Edina, the head coach may be about development, but what kind. Word is that he told his player to "show your Edina green" to the Shakopee team be tween the 2nd and 3rd period. Shame shame once again.
I was also lucky enough to hear that he mentioned at both last years banquet and this years banquet that he knows most of the opponents hate him.....one coach said so honestly, "We don't hate you, we hate Edina". But now that this situation has played out, it could possibly be both for most people in the arena that night!
If anyone would like to see this for yourself it's on mnsportsnetwork.com, under the full archive section.
I'm hoping the Edina girls hockey program will issue an appology to all spectators, I'm so sad to see this in youth hockey. But it definitely needs to be addressed with the coaching staff, players and parents.
I'm hoping the other teams watching that night have learned from what they witnessed as well.
That is exactly the right time to shorten the bench. Once you get to the final game of the final tournament of the year you should reward the kids that have been working the hardest.
There are plenty of reasons to dislike Edina. This one seems pretty weak.
really... wrote:Just watched the last game of the State tourney and could not believe the team of Green & White shortened their bench to win in 3 OTs? Is this acceptable at this level? What would other associations do? I was under the impression we are trying to develop our young girls to know and understand how to play in all situations so when they are older they are better developed and know the game of hockey and the situations they will face.
I guess you can play a certain 6 girls and have the same unit play all their power plays sacrificing the rest of the team as long as you win?
A great game by both teams, but I was shocked at the level of the bench shortening by their coaches, Eagan rolled all their lines. Great job by their coaching staff. I wonder if this association allows for this bench shortening and win at all cost attitude. I know if our coaches implored this concept they would be removed from coaching for this behavior. I guess Championships are more important than a girl's self-esteem and feeling part of a team and the win. Really feel sorry for all those girls who were benched for almost two periods of hockey.
Good luck to the Green & White Team your team should be proud the way you win
Really...unfortunately, shorting the bench happens more often than not, especially in a playoff game. I cannot comment on the poor sport like behavior by Edina, but I can say, there are a number of coaches that have shortened their bench during crunch time. Like it or not, it is the nature of the beast! My guess, your association has a fair play policy for all players as Edina does. The question is; do all coaches follow their policy? No, they don’t! I do admire though the coach who refuses to short shift their bench in order to win the game. Run all lines. Win or lose, to utilize the whole team, yes that would be development. They have the right stuff!
IT's Hockey.. So they shouldn't play to win. Why have a tournament then. Just give everybody a ribbon and send them home for the feel good times. I don't have anybody in this tournament , but I do have a 14u girl on another team and I strongly believe you should try to win in the last minutes or ot. My problem is my daughter practices hockey all the time while most girls on her team just practice at practice, no off ice ect. So my daughter should sit and watch another less skilled kid skate just so we all feel bubbly inside? Grow up your probably a parent that thinks if you pay the same you should play the same.... If the other want to be on the ice at the critical times them start practicing, because that is where the development is not the games..........
I bet Eagan didn't split goalie time. Shortening a bench for the State Championship is a great reward for those that put extra effort in, and a lesson for those that didn't. Parity in sports has it's place, but all equal in all circumstances? Nah. Not a good lesson IMO...
Doing the right thing is always harder. Roll baby roll! After several years of coaching and getting lots of good advice from very good coaches, I am of the opinion that one should not shorten the bench at youth level at any time. Shortening means you are coaching only some of the kids in the most mportant moments. By sitting a kid, you are saying "I can't count on you in a key moment" even though you (the coach) didn't say a word. They will never get better with coaching like that and you burn into them a negative feeling for life. Re the hard work thing, I know of many kids that are not very talented but are the hardest workers. The good kids will always be good. Now with that being said, if your association is inconsistent from U8 to U14...then it will blow up in your face. If you adopt an association policy that you roll the bench no matter what all the way up through an age group's development, you will get MORE quality kids, MORE kids liking hockey longer and a DEEPER ROSTER as the age group gets older. E.g. I know that Minnetonka has a policy that lines roll all the way through and the coaches live and die by the full roll. Maybe just a coincidence, but it seems to have worked out ok for them in the long run: A few 14 state champ teams (including last year) and a few high school state champ teams (last three years) shows it pays off with deeper teams that can throw out three solid lines against another team's two lines of the chosen few from over the years. It takes patience and an acceptance of loosing games in the younger years (yes...12's), but it pays off for EVERYONE in the end...and makes for some pretty special moments when the kid least expected to score an important goal, does (which I saw three times last year during a playoff run).
I think top shelf blue has a really great example with Minnetonka. The reasoning behind it makes sense, and I'm not an everybody gets a trophy kind of person. In the young years while not concentrating solely on winning and more on player development, players also learn a very valuable lesson. How to lose and still hold your chin up.
It's great to be able to hear different people's opinions. Very valuable information to hold on to.
I've never understood how shortening the bench to win a game rewards anyone's hard work. All I've ever seen it do is ruin team chemistry and cast a pall over the season. Repeat season after season and you end up with a handful of skilled players who feel no allegience to their association or the HS team it feeds into.
Minnetonka does not win because they have great players. Even without their studs they are very hard to beat. Minnetonka wins because they know how to play as a team. Last year's U14 team used that formula to become state champs. Nobody on that team was a standout, but they never gave up and they made you work hard to beat them.
Should the "roll everyone" mentality pertain to goalies too, or just skaters? If not goalies, why? Some of these teams have to roll their lines- 10 skaters and a goalie. Some teams have full rosters and two goalies. Wayzata had two goalies at the 14UA level. I wonder if they let both goalies play in the championship. Regardless, lots of variables come into play when making a decision like that. Generalizations and unbending policies are often bad. Some of you worry about the way a kid feels when left on the bench for the last minute of OT in favor of a stronger, faster skater. What if that slower D player trips and lets the opposing winger blow by him setting up the un-assisted goal in OT? What does that do to his fragile ego? How does his team treat him, despite being taught by the coaches to be kind to everyone? Absolutes are always dangerous...
I truly believe win at all cost is front and center and player development is no longer important. As was mentioned in previous posts, Minnetonka has a fair play policy, which I believe is great. Let ALL the kids experience all the phases in a game. If we don't allow them to do so, they will never learn. I also have a problem with some associations only keeping 10 skaters on an A team but then have 2+ B teams. Again, player development is out the window. At the end of the day it's the association board and level Directors that are accountable. They hire these coaches and are allowing this type of behavior to take place. If you don't set an expectation with the coaches and hold them accountable from the time they are selected, they will do what they believe is the right thing and for some, it's shortening the bench and win at all cost. If we want to keep girls playing hockey and see the numbers go up, the shortening of the bench needs to stop. These are 12 year old kids, it needs to be about the kids and not a coach showing how many games he or she can win.
I also have a problem with some associations only keeping 10 skaters on an A team but then have 2+ B teams. Again, player development is out the window.
Not if you have 10 A players and 20 B players. Why would you put 5 of those B players in a position where they are set up to fail? (To an extreme: I've also seen 10B teams, with 15 skaters on the bench, rest their best center on defense, so she never has to come off the ice.)
I agree with HWF about unbending policies. The same roll-the-lines advocates that say the 3rd line should be killing the penalty in OT of the state championship game (or draw your shootout kids from a hat), are the first ones to moan about 'why is the first line still going out there in the 3rd period when we're up by 7 goals?' A good coach puts his kids in a situation where they have an opportunity to succeed. I would guess that a 12 year old girl playing on a team that has made it to state wants to win, and she knows which girls give her team the best chance to do that.
Which is more important, to win a championship at a youth level or at the High School level? If you have the talent and want to build that baseline, let the kids play at youth and your HS program will be better for it. I'm still waiting for that HS team to win a state championship while playing only one line.
sinbin wrote:Which is more important, to win a championship at a youth level or at the High School level? If you have the talent and want to build that baseline, let the kids play at youth and your HS program will be better for it. I'm still waiting for that HS team to win a state championship while playing only one line.
If this association continues to say player development versus championships would be a joke. Their U14s that won the 12A State Championship last year could not even compete in state this year. Lost both games, and U14 is typically weaker as girls move on to HS. Is the reason they could not compete at 14s is the fact they shortened the bench last year too to ensure they won a U12A championship? And the same head coach did the same thing this year? With all the skaters they have in their program and the parent support and money to train these girls year-round they should have won a HS girls State Championship by now. If you continue to let youth coaches bully the system you end up with a lot of girls who are not developed. This association clearly needs to examine itself and the "real" motives for the people in charge, the buddy system does not win HS championships.
Peter...Peter You hooked me in. Please check your facts before throwing the 14's into this. I love discussions about youth hockey and coaching and try to see both sides. I will never excuse consistent bench shorting but the last 4-5 minutes and BIG games does not bother me. The "Empire" has a pretty good rule, 15 skaters on EVERY "A" team. Undoubtedly there have been a few instances where this was not possible due to injury etc... I use Myhockeyrankings.com as the pure ranking system because the actually include strength of schedule and goal differential. Edina 14 A was ranked 3rd consistently throughout the year behind Wayzata and Osseo MG. Edina went 33-11-3 And of the 11 loses 8 were against Wayzata and OMG Including the overtime loss to OMG at State. Edina was split with 8 first year and 8 second year players. Wayzata had all but 2 second year (almost positive).
I just happened to check roster size and found the following:
Farmington 12A 13 Eagan 12A 14 WBL 12A 13
Shakopee 12A 10
So would you be cool if said Empire just simply decided to "develop" only 10 girls on the 12A team?
The problem in Edina is NOT lack of "development" It really is lack of a security system at Braemar to keep the Benilde, Breck, and Blake dealers out! If you can send tips and tricks to do that ...It would be appreciated! We may even invite you to the 1st of many Banner Raisings.
I'd like to thank the privates personally for each girl they "poach" from our program. Each EP girl playing hockey for a private provides an additional opportunity for an EP girl to play HS hockey. How could that possibly be a bad thing?
I cheer our "deserters" whenever I see them play (not quite so loud when they are playing EP), and I feel happy for their success (not so much when it is against EP). It was a lot of fun watching the EP KCarlys (Lund and Bullock) play such a big part in Blake winning the state tournament.
SS729 wrote:IT's Hockey.. So they shouldn't play to win. Why have a tournament then. Just give everybody a ribbon and send them home for the feel good times. I don't have anybody in this tournament , but I do have a 14u girl on another team and I strongly believe you should try to win in the last minutes or ot. My problem is my daughter practices hockey all the time while most girls on her team just practice at practice, no off ice ect. So my daughter should sit and watch another less skilled kid skate just so we all feel bubbly inside? Grow up your probably a parent that thinks if you pay the same you should play the same.... If the other want to be on the ice at the critical times them start practicing, because that is where the development is not the games..........
So glad my kid doesn't play on your team...You have to keep in mind...this is YOUTH HOCKEY, its about development. There will be plenty of time to shorten the bench when it comes to high school...if they ever make it that far...especially the 6 players you develop in your area.
Development! Development! Development! Do you people who preach development really have any idea what you are talking about? Seriously? Development is about teaching kids the game from skating, stickhandling, puck protection, ice vision, individual battles, passing and teamwork, time and space, etc....It is also about putting kids in situations that they can succeed!
Peterthepuck, Hansonbrother and all the others that cry about shortening the bench are jealous and most likely have learned how to be happy with mediocrity. What's wrong with the motto: "If you don't like it do something about it!"???? Hansonbrother, my guess is your kid could never play on the team SS729 is referring to...they play to win!
If you want development, work hard to get better. Learn how to skate better, shoot better, stickhandle better...the coaches & teachers develop players and from the looks of it Edina seems to have a lot of good players. Where were they developed???? Get off the development bandwagon because the word is a joke. Development is about getting better and sitting out for three or four shifts here and there through a season is NOT going to hinder that one bit!
RealisticRonnie wrote:
If you want development, work hard to get better. Learn how to skate better, shoot better, stickhandle better...the coaches & teachers develop players and from the looks of it Edina seems to have a lot of good players. Where were they developed???? Get off the development bandwagon because the word is a joke. Development is about getting better and sitting out for three or four shifts here and there through a season is NOT going to hinder that one bit!
I think you'd find that kids don't like playing hockey if they never actually get to play hockey. Kids who don't like hockey have no interest in getting better at hockey and quickly drop out. Kids who don't play hockey grow up to be adults who don't play hockey, don't watch hockey, and have no interest in hockey. They have children who will never play hockey, watch hockey, or have any interest in hockey. It doesn't take long before the number of hockey players dwindles to where programs are no longer viable. Ice rinks stay dry all winter long and are used by lacross and soccer players. Eventually Minnesota becomes the "State of Lacrosse".
