Super State Tournament

The Latest 400 or so Topics

Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)

BodyShots
Posts: 1827
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:44 am

Re: Super State Tournament

Post by BodyShots » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:25 am

elliott70 wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:25 pm
Would you pay to see this event?

1 EDINA vs 16 EAGAN
8 HERMANTOWN vs 9 WAYZATA

4 ANDOVER vs 13 DULUTH EAST
5 EDEN PRAIRIE vs 12 MOORHEAD


2 MINNETONKA vs 15 ROSEMOUNT
7 MAPLE GROVE vs 10 ST THOMAS ACADEMY

3 BLAINE vs 14 HILL MURRAY
6 CHASKA vs 11 BENILDE ST MARGARETS
Hell no. The #6 ranked team in the state isn't even listed. [-X

Go with QRF for the rankings. :P

thestickler07
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:00 pm

Re: Super State Tournament

Post by thestickler07 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:26 am

Having STAA as the #10 seed is egregious imo.

Edinahopkins
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:22 pm

Re: Super State Tournament

Post by Edinahopkins » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:33 am

I like the idea of a super state tournament if you ditch class A , have 16 sections and all 16 teams are ranked at state. Start on a Tuesday the first wave of 8 play then Wednesday the next 8 , the 8 wining teams stay at the X and the losers go to the U. Have high school hockey start first and end last . “This is the state of hockey” make it for the kids can play 30-35 games if the school wants to at least give them the opportunity. Go to 20 minute periods, I also think they should have a jv like tournament or scrimmage fest during varsity playoffs to give them players more time for development and possibly for the varsity teams that do not make it to state have a few fun not meaning anything round robin tournaments for more games maybe then we can make it easier for kids to wanna stay and not bail to Juniors.

pekyman
Posts: 540
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:44 pm
Location: Back 40

Re: Super State Tournament

Post by pekyman » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:34 am

thestickler07 wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:26 am
Having STAA as the #10 seed is egregious imo.
Imo it is egregious that 3 private schools are preventing 3 public schools from participating in said tourney.

yesiplayedhockey
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:33 am

Re: Super State Tournament

Post by yesiplayedhockey » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:45 am

16 teams..one class is a great idea...Heck go to 24 I say and have the first one or two rounds at some of the best hockey rinks in the state

Imagine .....Edina vs Duluth East played in Roseau....Or Hermantown versus Moorhead played at the Ralph

Final 8 (or 4) still play at the X....

Doc Holliday
Posts: 577
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:20 pm
Location: SW Suburbs

Re: Super State Tournament

Post by Doc Holliday » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:24 pm

I think most agree that there are a few flaws in the current system. but for the most part, it is not broke.

But IF something was done, and just to have fun with it all, I like the idea of crossing sections or something similar to football after the 1st or 2nd round of sections.

Say you played current sections until you reach the section finals, you'd have 16 teams in both A & AA. At that point, seed both AA & A 1 though 16 for the section finals, whether it be through some computer model like PageStat or a coaches vote among the remaining 16 teams. Say you did PageStat, you'd have the following:

AA
1-Edina (6AA) vs. 16-Lakeville North (1AA)
2-Minnetonka (2AA) vs. 15-Brainerd (8AA)
3-Blaine (5AA) vs. 14-White Bear Lake (4AA)
4-Andover (7AA) vs. 13-Lakeville South (1AA)
5-Eden Prairie (2AA) vs. 12-Rosemount (3AA)
6-Maple Grove (5AA) vs. 11-Hill Murray (4AA)
7-Wayzata (6AA) vs.10-Duluth East (7AA)
8-St Thomas Academy (3AA) vs. 9-Moorhead (8AA)

A
1-Hermantown (7A) vs. 16-Litchfield (3A)
2-St Cloud Cathedral (6A) vs. North Branch (5A)
3-Mahtomedi (4A) vs. Minnesota River (1A)
4-East Grand Forks (8A) vs. Albert Lea (1A)
5-Totino Grace (4A) vs. 12-Marshall (3A)
6-Alexandria (6A) vs. Delano (2A)
7-Orono (2A) vs. Monticello (5A)
8-Greenway (7A) vs. Warroad (8A)

Put them in pods of 4 teams, consisting of a AA matchup & an A matchups. Double headers at Mariucci-Amsoil-Mankato-St. Cloud State over a two-day period, but a higher seed is not penalized (i.e.: the Wayzata-Duluth East game could not be at Amsoil...it would have to be somewhere else).
2nd game of the double header is the one that you'd guess would have more people at it. So, under the above team scenario, something like this:

Amsoil: Wednesday Night
Andover vs. Lakeville South
Hermantown vs. Litchfield

Amsoil: Thursday Night
Maple Grove vs. Hill Murray
Greenway vs. Warroad

Mariucci: Wednesday Night
Mahtomedi vs. Minnesota River
Edina vs. Lakeville North

Mariucci: Thursday Night
Totino Grace vs. Marshall
Minnetonka vs. Brainerd

Mankato: Friday Night
Orono vs. Monticello
Eden Prairie vs. Rosemount

Mankato: Saturday Night
Alexandria vs. Delano
Wayzata vs. Duluth East

St. Cloud State: Friday Night
East Grand Forks vs. Albert Lea
Blaine vs. White Bear Lake

St. Cloud State: Saturday Night
St. Cloud Cathedral vs. North Branch
St. Thomas Academy vs. Moorhead

I'd put two of the sites as Wednesday/Thursday & the other two Friday/Saturday, with it all worked around the home schedules of the college teams at hand. I'd keep Maruicci as a Wednesday/Thursday pretty much permanent though because Mariucci is also being used the next weekend for the consolation rounds. Even if they're during the day & college games are at night, just avoid any issues all together.

Reasons I like this:
-Keeps AA & A format, so smaller schools still have that chance to play on a tournament stage. Although it's being moved from the X to one of the college sites.....
-Gives loaded sections a chance to see someone else: Greenway, or whoever else from 7A, knows that if they can get past the semis, there's a high probability that they'll see someone other than Hermantown.
-These games are kind of what are already seen on Thursday at the X, just moving them to a college site. Edina vs. Lakeville North...Hermantown vs. Litchfield...

After this Sweet 16 round, then re-seed the final 8 for the Wednesday through Saturday at the X. But if you get to the round of 16, you get credited with a state tournament appearance. This should appease the everyone gets a trophy crowd....

If travel money is an issue, bump up the ticket prices for the games at the X by $1. I don't think anyone would care if prices went up by a dollar since most feel they're already a pretty good deal in the first place.

Like I said, I don't think it's super broke, so I don't see it changing, but always fun to tinker with what you would do if you were immediately made the czar of high school hockey and what you would do.....

zooomx
Posts: 463
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:34 pm

Re: Super State Tournament

Post by zooomx » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:29 pm

The section tournaments pretty much are an extension of the State Tournament. All teams have a chance to go to state as every team participates in sections. I like the current format as is. Section tournaments are a blast. Most sections have tons of geographical rivalries and honestly they often have more drama, nail-biting excitement than the state tournament. Yes, it does suck if you have a top 5 team that does not advance due to having a powerhouse in your section, but I think it is the lesser of the evils. The current set up gives strong outstate teams a good chance to advance.

If I was going to advocate a change, it would be to add the 3rd class. AAA, AA, A. Around 150 total teams. Go top 36 by enrollment, then the next 36 to 48 by enrollment, then all the rest. Clean up the rules and procedures for opting up and down. Sections remain geographical to protect rivalries and transportation costs. All privates are place in AAA and AA and possibly (if numbers make sense) all AA privates get put in one section by themselves. The AA class would be filled with current smaller AA schools and the bigger A schools plus or minus your move ups. Class A would then be left (hopefully) with a large groups of schools who are truly small schools without distinct geographic or monetary advantages. Then to truly balance it all out, institute mandatory move ups based on triggers like: Win 2 state tournaments in 3 years, or attend 5 tournaments in a row and you are bumped up for a 2 or 4 year cycle.

Slap Shot
Posts: 796
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:44 pm

Re: Super State Tournament

Post by Slap Shot » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:46 pm

No. Cap it at 16 teams and include A and AA in the same tournament.

ryguyMN
Posts: 371
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:08 pm
Location: Western WI

Re: Super State Tournament

Post by ryguyMN » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:29 pm

If you go to 16 teams in the AA tourney, you would most certainly have to move the A tourney to Mariucci or something similar.

I wouldn’t mind a 16 team field, you have some stacked sections (2AA and 6AA come to mind) with some very good teams not going to state.
Ryan

That guy for that thing
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:54 pm
Location: Hinckley

Re: Super State Tournament

Post by That guy for that thing » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:50 pm

ryguyMN wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:29 pm
If you go to 16 teams in the AA tourney, you would most certainly have to move the A tourney to Mariucci or something similar.

I wouldn’t mind a 16 team field, you have some stacked sections (2AA and 6AA come to mind) with some very good teams not going to state.
I would move A out of the metro area. You would need Mariucci for and consolation that you might have.

Slap Shot
Posts: 796
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:44 pm

Re: Super State Tournament

Post by Slap Shot » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:55 pm

Part of the beauty of the tournament is there are only 8 teams, that the Friday semifinals are sometimes the best hockey you're ever going to witness locally at any level, and the section tournaments are full of angst because it's so difficult in many sections to put it altogether for 3 wins and make the X. 16 team in each class imho would just dilute the tournament further.

kniven
Posts: 2979
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:40 pm
Location: Duluth area

Re: Super State Tournament

Post by kniven » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:27 pm

Edinahopkins wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:33 am
I like the idea of a super state tournament if you ditch class A , have 16 sections and all 16 teams are ranked at state. Start on a Tuesday the first wave of 8 play then Wednesday the next 8 , the 8 wining teams stay at the X and the losers go to the U. Have high school hockey start first and end last . “This is the state of hockey” make it for the kids can play 30-35 games if the school wants to at least give them the opportunity. Go to 20 minute periods, I also think they should have a jv like tournament or scrimmage fest during varsity playoffs to give them players more time for development and possibly for the varsity teams that do not make it to state have a few fun not meaning anything round robin tournaments for more games maybe then we can make it easier for kids to wanna stay and not bail to Juniors.

. I love this idea. And the Junior Varsity Festval 👍
“218 hockey” Boys of the NOrth ❤️

thestickler07
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:00 pm

Re: Super State Tournament

Post by thestickler07 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:33 pm

pekyman wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:34 am
thestickler07 wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:26 am
Having STAA as the #10 seed is egregious imo.
Imo it is egregious that 3 private schools are preventing 3 public schools from participating in said tourney.
Nobody's paying money to see Maple Grove of all places play, sorry bud - every postseason needs a villain.

Stang5280
Posts: 1225
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:12 pm

Re: Super State Tournament

Post by Stang5280 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:53 pm

FWIW, this idea is pretty similar to the Super 8 tournament in Massachusetts, which has been in place since 1991. The current format has ten teams chosen and seeded by a selection committee. The last four seeds then participate in a play-in round (7 vs 10 and 8 vs 9) that is a best of three series. The winners move on, and the losers return to their respective regional tournaments. The remaining eight teams then play a double-elimination tournament to determine the Super 8 champion.

All other teams not selected for the Super 8 play in regional tournaments for each classification, based on school size and skill level, and then state tournaments are held for each of those classifications.

It seems to work well, and most participants and fans are satisfied with the format, but obviously the primary focus is on the Super 8, and it has way higher attendance and fan interest. The other tournaments feel somewhat anticlimactic or watered down in comparison.

jdh
Posts: 144
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:10 am

Re: Super State Tournament too much travel. Edina going up to Roseau??? Get real!

Post by jdh » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:12 pm

yesiplayedhockey wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:45 am
16 teams..one class is a great idea...Heck go to 24 I say and have the first one or two rounds at some of the best hockey rinks in the state

Imagine .....Edina vs Duluth East played in Roseau....Or Hermantown versus Moorhead played at the Ralph

Final 8 (or 4) still play at the X....

jdh
Posts: 144
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:10 am

Re: Super State Tournament

Post by jdh » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:14 pm

Edina and East going to Roseau? A 350 mile trip. Get real!

That guy for that thing
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:54 pm
Location: Hinckley

Re: Super State Tournament

Post by That guy for that thing » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:44 pm

jdh wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:14 pm
Edina and East going to Roseau? A 350 mile trip. Get real!
I thought the same thing, but he was using it as an example. More realistically they would be in Bemidji, but it was just an example. Maybe GR and Moorhead or something.

Sparlimb
Posts: 1781
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 7:11 am

Re: Super State Tournament

Post by Sparlimb » Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:33 pm

elliott70 wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:25 pm
Would you pay to see this event?

1 EDINA vs 16 EAGAN
8 HERMANTOWN vs 9 WAYZATA

4 ANDOVER vs 13 DULUTH EAST
5 EDEN PRAIRIE vs 12 MOORHEAD


2 MINNETONKA vs 15 ROSEMOUNT
7 MAPLE GROVE vs 10 ST THOMAS ACADEMY

3 BLAINE vs 14 HILL MURRAY
6 CHASKA vs 11 BENILDE ST MARGARETS
Yes. I'd pay to see that. But I don't like the quarterfinal matchup with my squad and Benilde...

muckandgrinder65
Posts: 241
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:06 pm

Re: Super State Tournament

Post by muckandgrinder65 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:19 pm

It’s weird seeing Duluth East at lucky 🍀 130

gopherpuck516
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:59 am

Re: Super State Tournament

Post by gopherpuck516 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:47 pm

Slap Shot wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:55 pm
Part of the beauty of the tournament is there are only 8 teams, that the Friday semifinals are sometimes the best hockey you're ever going to witness locally at any level, and the section tournaments are full of angst because it's so difficult in many sections to put it altogether for 3 wins and make the X. 16 team in each class imho would just dilute the tournament further.
Agree 100% with this statement.

Post Reply