NAHA

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j4241
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NAHA

Post by j4241 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:01 am

Pretty spectacular performance by Minnesota teams this weekend at the NAHA Labor Day tournament. My understanding is OS teams have won twice - ever, at any level - in the history of this event prior to this weekend. OS teams won at the U19, U16 and U14 levels for a clean sweep!

Unpaidscout
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Re: NAHA

Post by Unpaidscout » Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:28 pm

That is totally awesome 👏! Especially from teams that just roll the lines. Way to go Winny you are a class act! =D>

Funtimes1991
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Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:07 pm

Re: NAHA

Post by Funtimes1991 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:07 am

j4241 wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:01 am
Pretty spectacular performance by Minnesota teams this weekend at the NAHA Labor Day tournament. My understanding is OS teams have won twice - ever, at any level - in the history of this event prior to this weekend. OS teams won at the U19, U16 and U14 levels for a clean sweep!

Congratulations to the girls. However wouldn’t it have been more appropriate for the MN OS u14 teams to play in the u16 division as they had most 2004 birth year girls on their teams? Seems more appropriate age and skill level than to play teams that are all comprised of 2005/2006 birth year girls. Was this done by design? Seem odd that as good as these players are they would want to play down. Takes a bit of the shine off.

Mnnstar
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Re: NAHA

Post by Mnnstar » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:38 am

Heard that at the u19 level it was all business. That a lot of the girls played with a little bit of a chip on their shoulder. How about the black team 3 straight shutouts in the championship round.https://www.winter-hawks.org/page/show/ ... ament-2019

NORTHWOODS HOCKEY
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Re: NAHA

Post by NORTHWOODS HOCKEY » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:01 pm

Funtimes1991 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:07 am
j4241 wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:01 am
Pretty spectacular performance by Minnesota teams this weekend at the NAHA Labor Day tournament. My understanding is OS teams have won twice - ever, at any level - in the history of this event prior to this weekend. OS teams won at the U19, U16 and U14 levels for a clean sweep!

Congratulations to the girls. However wouldn’t it have been more appropriate for the MN OS u14 teams to play in the u16 division as they had most 2004 birth year girls on their teams? Seems more appropriate age and skill level than to play teams that are all comprised of 2005/2006 birth year girls. Was this done by design? Seem odd that as good as these players are they would want to play down. Takes a bit of the shine off.
Probably should just place them at the 19U level next year.

Funtimes1991
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:07 pm

Re: NAHA

Post by Funtimes1991 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:05 pm

NORTHWOODS HOCKEY wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:01 pm
Funtimes1991 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:07 am
j4241 wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:01 am
Pretty spectacular performance by Minnesota teams this weekend at the NAHA Labor Day tournament. My understanding is OS teams have won twice - ever, at any level - in the history of this event prior to this weekend. OS teams won at the U19, U16 and U14 levels for a clean sweep!

Congratulations to the girls. However wouldn’t it have been more appropriate for the MN OS u14 teams to play in the u16 division as they had most 2004 birth year girls on their teams? Seems more appropriate age and skill level than to play teams that are all comprised of 2005/2006 birth year girls. Was this done by design? Seem odd that as good as these players are they would want to play down. Takes a bit of the shine off.


Probably should just place them at the 19U level next year.
Haha. I like the sarcasm. Probably better than sandbagging.

massalsa
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Re: NAHA

Post by massalsa » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:23 pm

Birth year stuff is ONLY relevant imo with USA hockey. Look at the rosters of the teams in each division. Not one mention of birth year ONLY graduation years. That is what matters to coaches from every D1 school in the country along with nearly all relevant D3 schools from the northeast and many Canadian universities.

The MN teams and also their competition all have grad years in the same range. OS could have sent at least 1 more team that would have been a middle of the pack team at the 19's and probably 2 at the 16 age level. It is a great trip with great hockey and there is no other time and place in the country to be seen by every college program.

j4241
Posts: 114
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Re: NAHA

Post by j4241 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:25 pm

There's no question an asterisk is probably warranted at the 14 level (top 6 scorers on Black team that won are '04s, goalie is an '04). But the original post was about Minnesota overall. Had the 14s not been there, point would have stood.

Regarding the 14s, my understanding is Winny has a strong group of young '04s (class of '23), wanted to showcase them against their recruiting peer group ('23s), and got NAHA approval to bring them to play at the 14 level. I don't know if that was a good idea or not. I predict that they would have been fine at the 16 level (and a single team made from those two 14 teams would have contended at 16s), but I think Winny has two spots at each age level. The 16 white team probably could have used some of the scoring of the younger '04s.

Note also that both the 16 teams Winny brought were mostly '04s. White had three '03 skaters and a goalie, black had two '03 skaters and a goalie - rest were '04s. The force is strong with that age group in Minnesota.

Funtimes1991
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Re: NAHA

Post by Funtimes1991 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:17 pm

massalsa wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:23 pm
Birth year stuff is ONLY relevant imo with USA hockey. Look at the rosters of the teams in each division. Not one mention of birth year ONLY graduation years. That is what matters to coaches from every D1 school in the country along with nearly all relevant D3 schools from the northeast and many Canadian universities.

The MN teams and also their competition all have grad years in the same range. OS could have sent at least 1 more team that would have been a middle of the pack team at the 19's and probably 2 at the 16 age level. It is a great trip with great hockey and there is no other time and place in the country to be seen by every college program.
While I agree with the birth year not being as relevant to college scouts, understand that every other teams roster would look very different if they were based off of grad year not age. College scout also want to see competitive games. They can’t tell how good a girl is if the games are lopsided either way. The reason USA hockey uses age classification is to put everyone on an even playing field. In today’s day and age of gap year between high school and college, every team could just change their kids grad year on a whim. The difference in maturity and level of play from a 2004 to a 2006 is huge at 14u, but the same gap at 19u is not that big of a deal. East coast wizards could certainly fill a team with 2023 grad year - 2004 players if they wanted. The difference is they aren’t allowed. The other issue is NAHA doesn’t tell anyone that the are letting in older players either. In the past it has been 1 or two players per team. This year it was 10-12. The 04 birth year is strong, but it seems like the 05 girls aren’t getting a chance to showcase their skills either. They should just make this tournament a non USA hockey sanctioned event, charge people money for insurance and set it up by grad year. Seems like that would make sense.

j4241
Posts: 114
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Re: NAHA

Post by j4241 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:22 pm

You seem intent on hijacking a thread about Minnesota kids succeeding at NAHA, and have dialed in either on '05s being unfairly exclued from NAHA, or on the EC Wizards being treated unfairly by having to play '04s. Do you have a connection with that team? If you do - they are really good! They beat a stacked OS white team, and gave a stacked OS black team two phenomenal games. I hope your kid(s) had fun playing them!

If you have an '05, your kid has a lot of time to showcase their skills - good luck at HP this spring!

If you're Kathy Pippy, I don't think you would have won even with Laney and Ava. :-)

NORTHWOODS HOCKEY
Posts: 179
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Re: NAHA

Post by NORTHWOODS HOCKEY » Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:29 pm

Funtimes1991 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:17 pm
massalsa wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:23 pm
Birth year stuff is ONLY relevant imo with USA hockey. Look at the rosters of the teams in each division. Not one mention of birth year ONLY graduation years. That is what matters to coaches from every D1 school in the country along with nearly all relevant D3 schools from the northeast and many Canadian universities.

The MN teams and also their competition all have grad years in the same range. OS could have sent at least 1 more team that would have been a middle of the pack team at the 19's and probably 2 at the 16 age level. It is a great trip with great hockey and there is no other time and place in the country to be seen by every college program.
While I agree with the birth year not being as relevant to college scouts, understand that every other teams roster would look very different if they were based off of grad year not age. College scout also want to see competitive games. They can’t tell how good a girl is if the games are lopsided either way. The reason USA hockey uses age classification is to put everyone on an even playing field. In today’s day and age of gap year between high school and college, every team could just change their kids grad year on a whim. The difference in maturity and level of play from a 2004 to a 2006 is huge at 14u, but the same gap at 19u is not that big of a deal. East coast wizards could certainly fill a team with 2023 grad year - 2004 players if they wanted. The difference is they aren’t allowed. The other issue is NAHA doesn’t tell anyone that the are letting in older players either. In the past it has been 1 or two players per team. This year it was 10-12. The 04 birth year is strong, but it seems like the 05 girls aren’t getting a chance to showcase their skills either. They should just make this tournament a non USA hockey sanctioned event, charge people money for insurance and set it up by grad year. Seems like that would make sense.
There is very little that is accurate or correct in Funtimes post.

Funtimes1991
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:07 pm

Re: NAHA

Post by Funtimes1991 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:19 pm

NORTHWOODS HOCKEY wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:29 pm
Funtimes1991 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:17 pm
massalsa wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:23 pm
Birth year stuff is ONLY relevant imo with USA hockey. Look at the rosters of the teams in each division. Not one mention of birth year ONLY graduation years. That is what matters to coaches from every D1 school in the country along with nearly all relevant D3 schools from the northeast and many Canadian universities.

The MN teams and also their competition all have grad years in the same range. OS could have sent at least 1 more team that would have been a middle of the pack team at the 19's and probably 2 at the 16 age level. It is a great trip with great hockey and there is no other time and place in the country to be seen by every college program.
While I agree with the birth year not being as relevant to college scouts, understand that every other teams roster would look very different if they were based off of grad year not age. College scout also want to see competitive games. They can’t tell how good a girl is if the games are lopsided either way. The reason USA hockey uses age classification is to put everyone on an even playing field. In today’s day and age of gap year between high school and college, every team could just change their kids grad year on a whim. The difference in maturity and level of play from a 2004 to a 2006 is huge at 14u, but the same gap at 19u is not that big of a deal. East coast wizards could certainly fill a team with 2023 grad year - 2004 players if they wanted. The difference is they aren’t allowed. The other issue is NAHA doesn’t tell anyone that the are letting in older players either. In the past it has been 1 or two players per team. This year it was 10-12. The 04 birth year is strong, but it seems like the 05 girls aren’t getting a chance to showcase their skills either. They should just make this tournament a non USA hockey sanctioned event, charge people money for insurance and set it up by grad year. Seems like that would make sense.
There is very little that is accurate or correct in Funtimes post.
Not trying to take anything away from these girls accomplishments. Everyone knows a lot of the best girls hockey players reside in Minnesota . Those are some really awesome teams. The OS teams especially are really fun to watch. NORTHWOODS - please explain to me what is inaccurate about my post? I have lived and had daughters play hockey in several different hockey markets, and what I am talking about is from experience. Not sure what your experience is to say that? Don’t get so defensive. Would love to go over my post point by point if you want to. But for you to wave your magic wand and say nothing is true is disingenuous.

NORTHWOODS HOCKEY
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:13 am

Re: NAHA

Post by NORTHWOODS HOCKEY » Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:27 pm

Funtimes1991 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:19 pm
NORTHWOODS HOCKEY wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:29 pm
Funtimes1991 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:17 pm


While I agree with the birth year not being as relevant to college scouts, understand that every other teams roster would look very different if they were based off of grad year not age. College scout also want to see competitive games. They can’t tell how good a girl is if the games are lopsided either way. The reason USA hockey uses age classification is to put everyone on an even playing field. In today’s day and age of gap year between high school and college, every team could just change their kids grad year on a whim. The difference in maturity and level of play from a 2004 to a 2006 is huge at 14u, but the same gap at 19u is not that big of a deal. East coast wizards could certainly fill a team with 2023 grad year - 2004 players if they wanted. The difference is they aren’t allowed. The other issue is NAHA doesn’t tell anyone that the are letting in older players either. In the past it has been 1 or two players per team. This year it was 10-12. The 04 birth year is strong, but it seems like the 05 girls aren’t getting a chance to showcase their skills either. They should just make this tournament a non USA hockey sanctioned event, charge people money for insurance and set it up by grad year. Seems like that would make sense.
There is very little that is accurate or correct in Funtimes post.
Not trying to take anything away from these girls accomplishments. Everyone knows a lot of the best girls hockey players reside in Minnesota . Those are some really awesome teams. The OS teams especially are really fun to watch. NORTHWOODS - please explain to me what is inaccurate about my post? I have lived and had daughters play hockey in several different hockey markets, and what I am talking about is from experience. Not sure what your experience is to say that? Don’t get so defensive. Would love to go over my post point by point if you want to. But for you to wave your magic wand and say nothing is true is disingenuous.
Again your post is inaccurate. I didn't say nothing was true, just very little that was accurate. I don't have a magic wand.

I will just go over two obvious things. The first is that USA hockey levels the playing field with age classification. A January birthdate has a distinct advantage over a December birthdate. USA hockey will be the first to admit it. Not indicating their age classification is wrong, just your statement that it was done to level the playing field, is not accurate. The 2nd is that a two year age gap does not make that much of a difference at 19U. It makes a tremendous difference. Even a year makes a difference. NAHA is one small example. The top 6 teams at 19U were predominately filled with 02 birth years and/or 2020 graduates, which includes OS Black at 19U, which my daughter was on. Yes, they each had some 2021s on the roster, but a majority of those were back end 02 birth years. The top 6 were distinctly faster, stronger and due to age, more experienced than the teams that had or were made up of mostly younger players. I believe OS Black had 4 of the top 19U teams in their division and played 5 of the top 6 on their way to the Chip. The speed of the game and strength of the older athletes, was evident in each and every game. There are a few exceptions, but those are few and far between.

I would NOT love to go over your post point by point - that would bore me and the readers immensely. I just thought it sad that you felt it necessary to try and diminish the success of a 14U team and it's players.

moosepaw
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Re: NAHA

Post by moosepaw » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:46 pm

I think there is some valid points about birthdates and grad years. I have friends from east coast that play freshman year go to prep school and go back and redo high school so they gain a year. Ultimately you can see U19,U16, U14, U12 means nothing .. comes down to grad year it is the only thing that matters. There are kids that are born in April and May that are held back.. Girks that are born in August that are moved ahead because they are nature enough. Much at stake and people will do what they need to do to gain the edge... when kids get older and go thru puberty it will tell how skilled they are....Girls hockey is in a tough situation....if I was a college coach I would put more emphasis on grad year and not bother with birth year it means nothing... hence why the 05 Minnesota feel slighted...

NORTHWOODS HOCKEY
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Re: NAHA

Post by NORTHWOODS HOCKEY » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:54 am

There are two different subjects that are being conflated.

The first is USA Hockey and youth hockey tournaments, such as NAHA, Beantown and all the many others. Birthdate and age does make a difference and at every age classification level. There are exceptions, yes, but they are called exceptions for a reason.

The second is a post HS hockey career, what matters and what coaches are looking for. If academics are removed, I would put character, maturity, work ethic, speed, ice awareness/ability to process information quickly and skill level, ahead of graduation year. If a player doesn't have the aforementioned qualities, it really doesn't matter what year they graduate. If a player has all or most of the qualities, well then, graduation year plays a roll.

As far as college coaches, as with any profession, I am sure there are many different approaches to recruiting and analyzing talent. I am pretty confident they don't base decisions on one game or one tournament. I would also venture to guess, that every program's needs change year by year. So 05s should not feel slighted or be overly concerned with where they are at in the recruiting process.

slowD
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Re: NAHA

Post by slowD » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:48 am

I am not postitve but I count roughly 15-16 girls on the 2 OS teams that are 05's. That is about half. So the teams were not mostly made up of 04 players. And either way they are all 2023 grads...which I am pretty sure is all that will matter when a college scout is picking his or her replacement players due to graduation. But I am just on the outside looking in. :-k

NORTHWOODS HOCKEY
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Re: NAHA

Post by NORTHWOODS HOCKEY » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:40 am

I think "Funtimes" opinions and points warrant a conversation. However, probably would have been better received and produced a better discussion, if it was brought up under a new thread. This post was a positive post, about the success of 3 OS teams, at one particular tournament. A tournament that means different things to different programs. I don't believe any rules were violated in anyway. The term "Sandbagging" and the phrases, "takes the shine off" and "seems odd that as good as the players are, they would want to play down." appears like whining and conveys a somewhat disgruntled position on the matter. Probably should have been directed at NAHA and not a program or 14U level team.

If the ECWs would have had a clean sweep, posted a congrats to the program's teams and an OS parent came on and tried to diminish the success, by listing reasons it was unfair that the ECW's 14U team won, I would think that very sad as well.

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