Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

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O-townClown
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Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

Post by O-townClown » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:09 am

He has a great record as HC for Edina.

Tom Saterdalen and Willard Ikola are considered legends. Like Giles, they led prominent programs to several state titles with great players. Giles should be viewed in the same light. Lee Smith as well.

So much fawning about Mike Randolph. Why not Giles? He's clearly doing something right. Yet he's never cited as a reason for the Hornets perennial success.
Be kind. Rewind.

kniven
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Re: Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

Post by kniven » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:54 pm

O-townClown wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:09 am
He has a great record as HC for Edina.

Tom Saterdalen and Willard Ikola are considered legends. Like Giles, they led prominent programs to several state titles with great players. Giles should be viewed in the same light. Lee Smith as well.

So much fawning about Mike Randolph. Why not Giles? He's clearly doing something right. Yet he's never cited as a reason for the Hornets perennial success.
You don’t think he does? I wouldn’t know cause I’m way up here in Cloquet/Esko

edgeless2
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Re: Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

Post by edgeless2 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:33 pm

No....my grandma could coach that team

O-townClown
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Re: Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

Post by O-townClown » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:21 pm

kniven wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:54 pm
You don’t think he does? I wouldn’t know cause I’m way up here in Cloquet/Esko
I've never heard him cited as a reason why Edina will be real good, like Randolph.

I've never heard that Edina, "led by Curt Giles with his" whatever his trademark look is, is back at the state tournament, like Ikola.

If his name is mentioned, it's like the one from edgeless. He gets no credit. Yet Saterdalen and Ikola did for running a solid program. A clear double standard.
Be kind. Rewind.

SEC Scotty
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Re: Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

Post by SEC Scotty » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:08 pm

Giles will get his dues. Part of the problem is most high school hockey fans despise Edina.

That said the former Humboldt Bronco, UMD Bulldog, and North Star is an outstanding coach. He runs a good program, has really good assistant coaches, and the players play hard for him.

He also gets to choose his team from one of the biggest, well coached, and talented hockey associations in the state.
I have always liked Giles. Probably the North Star fan still in me.

O-townClown
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Re: Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

Post by O-townClown » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:25 pm

SEC Scotty wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:08 pm
Part of the problem is most high school hockey fans despise Edina.
You are on to something. Possibly a large part?
Be kind. Rewind.

WestMetro
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Re: Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

Post by WestMetro » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:37 pm

OTC

Good conversation thread!

I think it took Giles a decade or so to get his first title , can’t remember how many times he made it to the X during that period .

He has really been on a tear the second decade, with all the titles and appearances

kniven
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Re: Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

Post by kniven » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:44 pm

Is Giles a top 5 or 10 coach in the state of hockey?

cigar
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Re: Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

Post by cigar » Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:25 pm

He loses more players every year than any other coach in MN... I guess this comes with having the best youth program in the US... Had its players stayed he wouldn't have lost a game in the last five years.

Regardless of these facts, he doesn't get the respect from the youth association because he isn't involved enough at the youth level, and he coaches at Edina, which no one outside of Edina likes.

But when the money is on the line, would you bet against him? more than not, you wouldn't....

What I like about him is he lets his kids play the game and forces the other team to adjust to them..... I guess when he has a team that is an underdog he could adjust and play a trap or something similar, but it seems he likes to let his players play and develop.. He could win more games, but I appreciate his teams playing and learning the game over winning at all costs... This will cost him some games this year, but let the kids learn and play...

to rate the best coaches, most look at championships and winning percentages... He is very good in both categories... He could be much better if he adopted to his opponents like Randolph does. I honestly don't know his philosophy or reasoning, and I don't think anyone outside the coaching staff does..

just judging from his results he is one of the best, but the critics would argue he could be better. I agree, he could have won more.. I ask the question: What is more important, to win games or to let your players play the game and develop? He has been able to do both. Who else can claim the same?

a lot of coaches also let the players play and learn, regardless of results. they don't have the talent luxury that Edina has so they don't win like the Mighty Hornet does, but the final result is the same... the kids play, learn and have fun.. the best coaches in my opinion do this. nuff said...

Jeffy95
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Re: Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

Post by Jeffy95 » Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:43 am

O-townClown wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:09 am
He has a great record as HC for Edina.

Tom Saterdalen and Willard Ikola are considered legends. Like Giles, they led prominent programs to several state titles with great players. Giles should be viewed in the same light. Lee Smith as well.

So much fawning about Mike Randolph. Why not Giles? He's clearly doing something right. Yet he's never cited as a reason for the Hornets perennial success.
He has an embarrassment of riches to work with at Edina, Mike Randolph has done pretty well against them hem over the years....

goldy313
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Re: Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

Post by goldy313 » Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:08 am

Hockey people give him his due. Non hockey people don’t. That is not unusual.... See Smith, Schmitz, Grosso, etc.

WarmUpTheBus
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Re: Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

Post by WarmUpTheBus » Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:26 am

He lost me the year he had Everson, Budish and Lee. All through the playoffs he played them every other shift and on every power play for the full 2 minutes if necessary. The team chemistry was ruined and the team burned out at State. Also for a guy who was an NHL defenseman he doesn’t do a particularly good job of developing defensemen. That said he has improved as a coach over the years.

northwoods oldtimer
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Re: Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

Post by northwoods oldtimer » Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:54 am

O-townClown wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:09 am
He has a great record as HC for Edina.

Tom Saterdalen and Willard Ikola are considered legends. Like Giles, they led prominent programs to several state titles with great players. Giles should be viewed in the same light. Lee Smith as well.

So much fawning about Mike Randolph. Why not Giles? He's clearly doing something right. Yet he's never cited as a reason for the Hornets perennial success.
Giles does remarkable job at Edina. I love his old school approach to the game. He can more than handle the parent egos at Edina. Kudos to Giles hope he stays around another 10 years.

yesiplayedhockey
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Re: Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

Post by yesiplayedhockey » Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:07 am

Giles is in a tough spot

If he wins, it's because of his deep pool of talent (and the money behind it)

If he loses he is going to get blamed.

He doesn't seem to want the attention, he doesn't make excuses and you don't find him hanging out at Bunny's with the parents

It's the highest profile, most desired coaching job in High School hockey. I think he's done a very good job of handling that type of pressure

When he steps down there will be over 500 candidates all working the system begging for that job

blueblood
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Re: Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

Post by blueblood » Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:29 am

Giles learned from the ‘09 team the value of depth. Since then he’s gone on to win 4 AA titles (‘10, ‘13, ‘14 and ‘19)

Winning the title requires many things to fall into place. Every team Edina plays, whether it’s regular season or playoffs, is going to bring their best game on that day.
Play Like a Champion Today

SEC Scotty
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Re: Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

Post by SEC Scotty » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:41 am

High School coaches learn early that you can’t be more than cordial to the parents.

Most have seen the torches and pitchforks at some point.

hockey59
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Re: Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

Post by hockey59 » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:59 am

Jeffy95 wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:43 am
O-townClown wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:09 am
He has a great record as HC for Edina.

Tom Saterdalen and Willard Ikola are considered legends. Like Giles, they led prominent programs to several state titles with great players. Giles should be viewed in the same light. Lee Smith as well.

So much fawning about Mike Randolph. Why not Giles? He's clearly doing something right. Yet he's never cited as a reason for the Hornets perennial success.
He has an embarrassment of riches to work with at Edina, Mike Randolph has done pretty well against them hem over the years....
Curt is a darn good coach, no question whatsoever. That said, with the talent Edina has had the past 10-15 years...a dog with a note in its mouth...could get Edina to the Section Finals during these years 😉 :D

kniven
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Re: Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

Post by kniven » Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:56 pm

hockey59 wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:59 am
Jeffy95 wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:43 am
O-townClown wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:09 am
He has a great record as HC for Edina.

Tom Saterdalen and Willard Ikola are considered legends. Like Giles, they led prominent programs to several state titles with great players. Giles should be viewed in the same light. Lee Smith as well.

So much fawning about Mike Randolph. Why not Giles? He's clearly doing something right. Yet he's never cited as a reason for the Hornets perennial success.
He has an embarrassment of riches to work with at Edina, Mike Randolph has done pretty well against them hem over the years....
Curt is a darn good coach, no question whatsoever. That said, with the talent Edina has had the past 10-15 years...a dog with a note in its mouth...could get Edina to the Section Finals during these years 😉 :D
I like it 👍

O-townClown
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Re: Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

Post by O-townClown » Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:40 pm

Jeffy95 wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:43 am
O-townClown wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:09 am
So much fawning about Mike Randolph.
Mike Randolph has done pretty well against them hem over the years....
The fawning continues.

When the planets align Mike Randolph can lead Duluth East to an upset to beat Edina.

When things break his way Curt Giles beats everybody.
Be kind. Rewind.

elliott70
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Re: Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

Post by elliott70 » Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:46 pm

Giles is arguably the best high school coach today.

O-townClown
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Re: Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

Post by O-townClown » Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:51 pm

elliott70 wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:46 pm
Giles is arguably the best high school coach today.
Thanks, Mark. It's obvious he's had a lot to work with at Edina, but it hasn't made sense to me that Saterdalen & Ikola were revered and this guy seldom gets mentioned.

Several comments above recognize that he's doing something right. 2019-20 will test his coaching abilities!
Be kind. Rewind.

green4
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Re: Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

Post by green4 » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:07 pm

I have always been a Giles guy, I think if you listen to his interviews he shows that he really cares for the kids. I always felt like that going to his camps and during tryouts. He remembered me as a squirt and pee wee even when I was not one of the highly skilled kids.

He has won 4 titles in 10 years, even if you think anyone could go to state with Edina, I don't think you would say anyone could win. We keep talking about how there has been more parity and depth the last few years so if we truly believe that, he must be doing something right.

I think the comment about how he hasn't done well developing defenseman is odd. I don't know if that has to do with Brinkman and thinking he should have gotten more out of him or what, but Brinkman played college hockey at 18 so Giles I think did a fine job getting him ready.
He got a lot out of guys like Joe Gleason, Parker Reno, Matt Nelson, Luke Johnson, David Jarret and Max Everson. He helped a bunch of guys who were not as skilled as the previous named guys by developing them and getting them ready for College and Junior hockey. Hayden Anderson was a walk on at Princeton, Ben Ostile, Luke Perunovich, Sam Fuss, Ben Foley. He maybe never developed a true superstar D man, like he did with Malmquist, but there is a laundry list of D men who he definitely helped get to the next level.

The last thing, everyone likes to bring up the Mike Randolph record against Edina, and thats true, East has had plenty of success against Edina. But there is four things Giles can do that Randolph can't, and its win championships this century.

edgeless2
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Re: Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

Post by edgeless2 » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:33 pm

I guess we’ll see how good he is the next couple years when he will only have 2-3 D1 players on each team. Coach em up Curt!

WestMetro
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Re: Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

Post by WestMetro » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:38 pm

looking over likely roster and watching Borst and Williams this weekend, im wondering if giles should pull a hermantown joey pierce type move, and switch Nick Williams to forward for this season.....

karl(east)
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Re: Will Curt Giles ever get his due?

Post by karl(east) » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:11 pm

This thread got me thinking more broadly over how we measure coaches' success. One way to go at this is to pose a bunch of questions over traits that some people might equate with coaching success. Obviously we can look at won-lost records but that isn't always reflective of what coaches do with what they have to work with. Here's an attempt to do this with the four long-tenured coaches who are arguably the most consistently successful in AA hockey in Curt Giles, Mike Randolph, Bill Lechner, and Lee Smith). These are my takes but I'd certainly invite partisans of each team (and observers to all of them) to share.

Has he stayed in one place for a long time and maintained a high standard?

I'd say this is true for all four and it's why I chose them, but it's a big part of what separates them from so many others.

Did he build his program up from obscurity into what it is today?

Giles: Not really; Edina was great for decades before he came on board. He's certainly overseen a resurgence over the past decade. He enjoys riches of talent and that can make it hard to isolate and assess the affects of coaching on performance. It may be huge, it may be small, it's just harder to say.
Randolph: The cupboard wasn't bare, but East only went to one Tourney in the 24 years preceding his arrival. It certainly turned a corner in the early years.
Lechner: No, he inherited a program with a long, strong track record. Also didn't do much with his early stint in Stillwater.
Smith: Like Randolph, he took a program with a good foundation and but little success and brought it to the next level.

Has he learned from past mistakes?

Giles: Yes, and it's a strong point in his favor. As blueblood said, he seemed to learn the value of depth after the 07-09 losses and hasn't made that mistake again.
Randolph: At times, yes; I'd say his handling of players improved over the past decade and results followed, though this can ebb and flow.
Lechner: Seems to stick to his guns.
Smith: I'd say his teams have evolved somewhat over the years; you could tell there was a more physical turn after the 2016 championship game loss, though I don't know if that helped them or not.

Can we point to creative tactics or buttons he's pushed within games as a reason why they've won some big games?

Giles: I can think of a few instances of line-matching, especially back with the 2010 team, which was probably his most impressive work as a tactician; tell me if you think I'm wrong, Hornet faithful, but I can't think of much since. Edina teams are usually at their best when they're finely tuned, deep machines steamrolling everyone in their way.
Randolph: Definitely. The 2-3 forecheck that was instrumental in pulling four straight upsets in 2015 is probably the most obvious example. East has also come from behind in the 3rd period to win a section final 5 times in the past 9 seasons. I could walk through those games, and some other games, and say when he pushed certain buttons tactically to swing momentum. This, I think, is where Randolph distinguishes himself most.
Lechner: Not his big thing, but physical play was certainly the key to the 2008 title. On the flip side his trap in the 2014 section final loss to Stillwater baffled me.
Smith: I'd give him credit for their puck possession game in the near-upset in this past year's title game, but mostly he just builds up a system and then relies on his stars to do their thing. Of course if I had Leddy and Rau and Mittelstadt to work with I'd probably do the same thing.

Does he deliver when he does have elite talent?

Giles: Obviously he did in 13 and 14; on the flip side one could point to 07-09 and 15 and 18 as teams that fell short. Of those, 09 and 15 were huge upsets; 07 was pretty big, though that Edina team was young and facing a battle-tested Rapids. In 08 and especially 18 they had overwhelming talent, but also lost to a very good opponent. At the end of the day, though, 4 titles is 4 titles, and that's hard to argue with.
Randolph: The knock is that he's never won the third title. 1997 and 2012 stand out as the glaring ones they probably should have won but didn't. 2009 wasn't quite on that level but was a bad upset loss. At other times I think he's done everything right but been unlucky (1996, 2011) or just somewhat outgunned by a better team (91, 94, 00, 18). For all of the good teams East has had they have only had a handful of clear favorites, most of those in the mid-90s.
Lechner: No, most of his highest-seeded or ranked teams have not managed to finish the deal. 2006, 2011, and 2013 are the most glaring ones.
Smith: Did so in 09 and 11; couldn't do so in the Casey Mittelstadt era, though those teams weren't quite on the same elite level. This coming year will be a test of this.

Conclusion from that section: all coaches, no matter how "great," will have a bunch of seasons that got away if they keep at it for long enough.

Does he win even when he doesn't have great talent?

Giles: Hard to measure since this is such a rare occurrence. It's ancient history now, but the Hornets didn't do much under him when they were down in 01-06. Even the "surprise" state title team in 2010 still had 8 D-I players, the same number as the Minnetonka team they upset in the title game. I'd give him some credit for giving this past season's team, which was not as talented as the 2018 group, playing at a very high level by the end. I'll be curious to see what Edina does this coming season here.
Randolph: Yes, in the scattered years when he hasn't (2003, 2015), they've been right there anyway, and we could certainly point to a number of other seasons that were mild upset runs (1991, 2005, 2014, 2019); kind of like 2019 Edina, 1998 East was still very good but on paper down from the highs of preceding years, but still won it all. As with Giles, this coming season will be a major test of his abilities here.
Lechner: I'd say he does well with teams that are just a step below truly elite, as in 08 or 2010 or the upset of Stillwater in 2017. Hill's lack of wins at state in recent years does correspond to a mild decline in talent from where they were a decade ago. Like Giles, didn't do much in the early 00s when his team was down.
Smith: Historically I would've said no (Robbinsdale Armstrong in the section quarters, anyone?), but I do think Smith deserves credit for how consistently this team comes out of a very difficult section and for pushing Edina to the brink this past season.

Personality/intangibles

Giles: I think being as reserved as he is keeps him from sometimes getting as much attention as he could. He could probably have a more iconic status if Edina played on Hockey Day every time they were invited or if he gave long interviews at every opportunity. I suspect Curt is perfectly content not to do any of that, but I also think it is a factor in how much attention his reputation, in turn, gets.
Randolph: Has made a few more enemies than some for his intense style, though he's also willing to hold court on high school hockey for hours on end to anyone who will listen (and often says punchy and/or insightful things when doing so), which I think contributes to his reputation. He certainly tries to be an ambassador for the high school game.
Lechner: Gets a lot of credit, deserved in my opinion, for his high standards of conduct and class.
Smith: Not someone who jumps out in any obvious way. He does have a remarkable track record of keeping his elite players in high school, though, which probably says something about how he's perceived in the locker room.

I'll cut myself off...hopefully that's a useful starting point for how we think about what allows some coaches to stand out.

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