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Never expect MUCH development, or ice time out of games and tournaments it's a total waste of resources summer or winter. Teams could get more development playing an older team in house without all of the delays...... No 10 hour drives NEEDED.

I have to disagree a little. I think the scrimmages, games and tournaments are an important part of development. It may not be line drills and stick handling type development, but one of the reasons for the hard work in practice is to be able to compete against other teams. Plus the kids love going to these tournaments.

HockeyDad41 wrote:

Never expect MUCH development, or ice time out of games and tournaments it's a total waste of resources summer or winter. Teams could get more development playing an older team in house without all of the delays...... No 10 hour drives NEEDED.

I have to disagree a little. I think the scrimmages, games and tournaments are an important part of development. It may not be line drills and stick handling type development, but one of the reasons for the hard work in practice is to be able to compete against other teams. Plus the kids love going to these tournaments.

Sure when you are good enough to play in games. But when you play for a coach who doesn’t play you in games where’s the learning? Why spend the big bucks when you can get practice without games at your local STP. Our AAA experience is over, at least with the invite teams. Our son is dispirited and disappointed from his experience and I am shocked with the behaviors. Granted this was only one coach and coordinator but they sure showed their true colors. However, good for everyone else who has good experiences! Some teams are great!

Exnorthstar wrote:

HockeyDad41 wrote:

Never expect MUCH development, or ice time out of games and tournaments it's a total waste of resources summer or winter. Teams could get more development playing an older team in house without all of the delays...... No 10 hour drives NEEDED.

I have to disagree a little. I think the scrimmages, games and tournaments are an important part of development. It may not be line drills and stick handling type development, but one of the reasons for the hard work in practice is to be able to compete against other teams. Plus the kids love going to these tournaments.

Sure when you are good enough to play in games. But when you play for a coach who doesn’t play you in games where’s the learning? Why spend the big bucks when you can get practice without games at your local STP. Our AAA experience is over, at least with the invite teams. Our son is dispirited and disappointed from his experience and I am shocked with the behaviors. Granted this was only one coach and coordinator but they sure showed their true colors. However, good for everyone else who has good experiences! Some teams are great!

What organization was this ? may be good for the rest of us to know. Word of mouth is powerful and one of the few things we can do to keep organizations honest.

silentbutdeadly3139 wrote:

Exnorthstar wrote:

HockeyDad41 wrote: I have to disagree a little. I think the scrimmages, games and tournaments are an important part of development. It may not be line drills and stick handling type development, but one of the reasons for the hard work in practice is to be able to compete against other teams. Plus the kids love going to these tournaments.

Sure when you are good enough to play in games. But when you play for a coach who doesn’t play you in games where’s the learning? Why spend the big bucks when you can get practice without games at your local STP. Our AAA experience is over, at least with the invite teams. Our son is dispirited and disappointed from his experience and I am shocked with the behaviors. Granted this was only one coach and coordinator but they sure showed their true colors. However, good for everyone else who has good experiences! Some teams are great!

What organization was this ? may be good for the rest of us to know. Word of mouth is powerful and one of the few things we can do to keep organizations honest.

The organization itself was good to us, more the coach. When we talked to the president they were unaware and disagreed with what happened and refunded us some money. The coach/coordinator paint a much different picture saying it was the parents (us) who caused all the problems. Its a he said she said deal, but I am sure if I told you who it was, you would say...AH...makes sense now.

Exnorthstar wrote:

silentbutdeadly3139 wrote:

Exnorthstar wrote: Sure when you are good enough to play in games. But when you play for a coach who doesn’t play you in games where’s the learning? Why spend the big bucks when you can get practice without games at your local STP. Our AAA experience is over, at least with the invite teams. Our son is dispirited and disappointed from his experience and I am shocked with the behaviors. Granted this was only one coach and coordinator but they sure showed their true colors. However, good for everyone else who has good experiences! Some teams are great!

What organization was this ? may be good for the rest of us to know. Word of mouth is powerful and one of the few things we can do to keep organizations honest.

The organization itself was good to us, more the coach. When we talked to the president they were unaware and disagreed with what happened and refunded us some money. The coach/coordinator paint a much different picture saying it was the parents (us) who caused all the problems. Its a he said she said deal, but I am sure if I told you who it was, you would say...AH...makes sense now.

I suppose you can't name names ... maybe ? but it would be good to know as a buyer beware because you are signing up with the coach more than an organization. Sounds like the organization is VERY classy and kudos to them. Thats a selling point for them

Good for that organization for refunding some of your money. Unfortunately not all teams in all the organizations have the right people representing their teams.
I for one will be bringing my son back to spring hockey. My situation is very similar to another posters where the calbre of players he plays with and against aren't really near his level and having him play on a team like his and play against the great competition that we did this winter really helped his game improve especially as a team player. Everything he did this spring was done at a high level plus every kid on his team is very competitive and they really pushed each other in everything they did, especially in practice.
I know that he has become better friends with his spring teammates than he is with his winter teammates. He always looked forward to whatever team function was on whether it was practice or a team meal. He cried when it was over and asked me to make another team for him to play on. lol
I realize not all experiences are the same but for us we definitely found it to be a great return on investment plus a ton of fun for parents and child!!

silentbutdeadly3139 wrote:

Exnorthstar wrote:

silentbutdeadly3139 wrote: What organization was this ? may be good for the rest of us to know. Word of mouth is powerful and one of the few things we can do to keep organizations honest.

The organization itself was good to us, more the coach. When we talked to the president they were unaware and disagreed with what happened and refunded us some money. The coach/coordinator paint a much different picture saying it was the parents (us) who caused all the problems. Its a he said she said deal, but I am sure if I told you who it was, you would say...AH...makes sense now.

I suppose you can't name names ... maybe ? but it would be good to know as a buyer beware because you are signing up with the coach more than an organization. Sounds like the organization is VERY classy and kudos to them. Thats a selling point for them

I sent you a private message through this forum. Look for it.

Having just completed the boys side AAA run with a 94' son...I have posted this before but as a parent you need to ask the coach or organization leader one question: Is there equal icetime for everyone?

At no time should a coach shorten the bench during the summer. PERIOD !! If your kids was accepted on the team, he or she is there because the coach think they belong.

The whole AAA experience can be great !! Creating Friends that cross city borders but there's a period where it becomes fanatical for parents and the coach's...it typically from the end of the squirt year through peewee's.

Ask that question and you'll get what you want...icetime.

Pens4 wrote:Having just completed the boys side AAA run with a 94' son...I have posted this before but as a parent you need to ask the coach or organization leader one question: Is there equal icetime for everyone?

At no time should a coach shorten the bench during the summer. PERIOD !! If your kids was accepted on the team, he or she is there because the coach think they belong.

The whole AAA experience can be great !! Creating Friends that cross city borders but there's a period where it becomes fanatical for parents and the coach's...it typically from the end of the squirt year through peewee's.
Ask that question and you'll get what you want...icetime.

You're not kidding.....it's hilarious watching and listening to those parents....typically they all mellow out by the time their kids are Bantam age.

[quote="Pens4"]Having just completed the boys side AAA run with a 94' son...I have posted this before but as a parent you need to ask the coach or organization leader one question: Is there equal icetime for everyone?

At no time should a coach shorten the bench during the summer. PERIOD !! If your kids was accepted on the team, he or she is there because the coach think they belong.

The whole AAA experience can be great !! Creating Friends that cross city borders but there's a period where it becomes fanatical for parents and the coach's...it typically from the end of the squirt year through peewee's.

Ask that question and you'll get what you want...icetime.[/quote]

That's funny! We did ask the coach, through email because he wouldn't talk with us, and he got kicked off the team without warning and without communication. Ruthless eh?

That is unacceptable to have a kid kicked off mid-season. The summer can be competitive and affordable and flexible with a little common sense and planning.

We do a girls AAA team at the 14U level and for the spring we play in a non-profit league called the Two Nations Female Hockey league. We play in 4 tournaments (Fargo, Winnepeg, (2) Blaine) and it costs the girls about $200 in tournament costs. There are four teams from Canada & four from Minnesota. It is done for 14's; 16's and college girls. Think about it...25 games for $200...in the for profit era that is $6400 minimum.

I'm having a hard time understanding the dollar figures being thrown out here. I've always had a hard time understanding the new math, so feel free to help me out.

50 hour of ice X $200/hour = $10,000
4 tournaments X $2,000 = $8,000
(10,000 + 8,000) = $18,000
$18,000/15 kids = $1,200/kid

Many programs practice fewer than 50 hours.
Many programs get ice time for less than $200/hour.
Many programs play in fewer than 4 tournaments.
Many programs play in tournaments that cost less than $2,000.
Many programs have more than 15 kids.

35 hours of practice @ $180/hour plus 3 tourneys @ $1,700 with 20 kids equates to $570/kid.

Granted, there are programs that get much more than 50 hours of ice, play in more than 4 tourney that cost more than $2,000, but there are also programs that carry practice players that shoud reduce the per kid amount. I also don't begrudge any coach from being reimbursed his expenses, or in many cases making a couple bucks for his time and effort, and there are administrative costs that accompany any organization. That still doesn't explain the giant numbers mentioned on a couple posts.

You need to add the salaries for the coaches, jerseys/socks. Plus, it's a business, so they want to make some money too. I'm not saying that I agree with the cost, but it's not just ice & tournaments either. Hopefully you end up in a good program that makes the money worth it and your kid has fun, makes some new friends and learns along the way.

Goalie Dude wrote:You need to add the salaries for the coaches, jerseys/socks. Plus, it's a business, so they want to make some money too. I'm not saying that I agree with the cost, but it's not just ice & tournaments either. Hopefully you end up in a good program that makes the money worth it and your kid has fun, makes some new friends and learns along the way.

$810/hour equates to some pretty nice socks.

My kid is a goalie, he doesn't even wear the socks. However, his goalie coach is great, I know he doesn't work for free. If you don't want to pay, do have your kid play. It's pretty simple.

My bad.
My kid is a goalie, he doesn't even wear the socks. However, his goalie coach is great, I know he doesn't work for free. If you don't want to pay, don't have your kid play. It's pretty simple.[/quote]

Pens4 wrote:Having just completed the boys side AAA run with a 94' son...I have posted this before but as a parent you need to ask the coach or organization leader one question: Is there equal icetime for everyone?

At no time should a coach shorten the bench during the summer. PERIOD !! If your kids was accepted on the team, he or she is there because the coach think they belong.

The whole AAA experience can be great !! Creating Friends that cross city borders but there's a period where it becomes fanatical for parents and the coach's...it typically from the end of the squirt year through peewee's.

Ask that question and you'll get what you want...icetime.

I totally and respectfully disagree. In no way shape or form are all the selected players equal or are they playing equal in each game. If by shortening the bench in a do or die semi final game in the last period means another game of hockey for the whole team then, I will do so! If one players play is way off for a particular game or if one player is taking alot of selfish penalties I will most definitely give that boy a seat and some time to think about his actions! It is not fair to the rest of the team to have a player or players hurt the rest of their team for selfish reasons. Why do they deserve the same amount of ice time in that particular instance as the rest of the team?
I dont believe in doing it at the beginning of the game or anything stupid like that. THere is a time and a place for bench shortening. I very seldom do it but if it is for the better of the team then I will do it with in reason.

Goalie Dude wrote:My bad.
My kid is a goalie, he doesn't even wear the socks. However, his goalie coach is great, I know he doesn't work for free. If you don't want to pay, don't have your kid play. It's pretty simple.

[/quote]

If I was asked to pay $810/hour, you're right, simple.

CoachMan wrote: If by shortening the bench in a do or die semi final game

Hmmm....do or die

I think this is the edge that comes off by 2nd year bantams and 100 tournaments later. Benching a kid for poor behavior is one thing but picking a kid to be on a summer team then going all Herb Brooks on him and skipping his shift, your priorities are a bit out of whack.

P.S. if your 40ish and coaching pre-teens you will never get your name on Lord Stanley's Cup, get over it. Your job/role/passion is for all the kids on the roster to make them better players, better people, and let them have some fun. They are not mutually exclusive.

going all Herb Brooks on him and skipping his shift, your priorities are a bit out of whack.

so your saying its a better lesson for the youngster to learn that he can take shifts off and play with less effort than his team mates and still get equal ice time?

royals dad wrote:

CoachMan wrote: If by shortening the bench in a do or die semi final game

Hmmm....do or die

I think this is the edge that comes off by 2nd year bantams and 100 tournaments later. Benching a kid for poor behavior is one thing but picking a kid to be on a summer team then going all Herb Brooks on him and skipping his shift, your priorities are a bit out of whack.

P.S. if your 40ish and coaching pre-teens you will never get your name on Lord Stanley's Cup, get over it. Your job/role/passion is for all the kids on the roster to make them better players, better people, and let them have some fun. They are not mutually exclusive.

Finally a statement on this board that actually makes sense, I couldn't agree with you more.

There are alot of idiots coaching AAA hockey that have no right to behind the bench other than their relationships they have with the King Pins collecting the money!!

InigoMontoya wrote:
If I was asked to pay $810/hour, you're right, simple.

Sorry fo the confusion on the math InigoMontoya.
The team fees are 550.00, 5 tournaments, Zero practice hours.
The 700.00 is my traveling expense/ per tournament.

Total rough cost for me is 4050.00 for 20 games.(5 hrs of ice time)

For me it works out to be 810/per hour of ice. Others on the team that live at the tournament sights it is much cheaper.
So like i said in my situation, not enough bang for the buck, simple

i went through alot of summer hockey with my oldest two and looking back the one thing they got out of it from a hockey stand point would be playing out of thier comfort zone. as for everything else weight room shooting pucks and some dry land (all you can do yourself is probley better and waaaaaaaaaaaay cheaper.)

CoachMan wrote:

Pens4 wrote:Having just completed the boys side AAA run with a 94' son...I have posted this before but as a parent you need to ask the coach or organization leader one question: Is there equal icetime for everyone?

At no time should a coach shorten the bench during the summer. PERIOD !! If your kids was accepted on the team, he or she is there because the coach think they belong.

The whole AAA experience can be great !! Creating Friends that cross city borders but there's a period where it becomes fanatical for parents and the coach's...it typically from the end of the squirt year through peewee's.

Ask that question and you'll get what you want...icetime.

I totally and respectfully disagree. In no way shape or form are all the selected players equal or are they playing equal in each game. If by shortening the bench in a do or die semi final game in the last period means another game of hockey for the whole team then, I will do so! If one players play is way off for a particular game or if one player is taking alot of selfish penalties I will most definitely give that boy a seat and some time to think about his actions! It is not fair to the rest of the team to have a player or players hurt the rest of their team for selfish reasons. Why do they deserve the same amount of ice time in that particular instance as the rest of the team?
I dont believe in doing it at the beginning of the game or anything stupid like that. THere is a time and a place for bench shortening. I very seldom do it but if it is for the better of the team then I will do it with in reason.

I can certainly understand shortening the bench once in awhile. Our son was recruited by this coach and repeatedly told us he wanted him, he would play one shift (1st period) and then be pulled for the rest of the game for making mistakes, (what we were told.) As parents, who gave up a spot on an open level team, to play for this guy, we were upset. No communication no return phone calls and no return emails just took him off the roster without telling us. This is why our invite level experience is DONE. I don't disagree with shortening the bench, but this was ridiculous.

black sheep wrote:

going all Herb Brooks on him and skipping his shift, your priorities are a bit out of whack.

so your saying its a better lesson for the youngster to learn that he can take shifts off and play with less effort than his team mates and still get equal ice time?

If that is what you take from reading my post, I doubt there is much I can write that will make sense to you. Huge generalization I know but so many times "lack of effort" is used by parents and coaches after a bad shift or a loss. Maybe they were just a bit better that time out. God forbid a 9 year old coasts through a shift and gets away with it before you know it they are hot wiring cars and living under an overpass.

Can't say what is right for everyone else but we through some money in a hat bought some once a week ice this summer, the kids play cross ice shinny style. No one sits until they are to tired to move. No coaching. They are getting zero benefits that I can see other than sweating like dogs and having fun. We ended up turning kids away because there was no room for more.

Do what ever works best for your family just keep it all in perspective.