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Man ..you gotta lighten up a little..

Do you ever smile?? ..

The weather report says oppressive heat with unbearable humidity for as far the eye can see and no decent hockey within miles. Do you wonder why?

So since this thread is about the Fire does anyone know if they are fielding teams this year or not? They were removed from the warrior invite list for some reason.

Back on subject please. Take the development discussion elsewhere.

The Fire has teams listed (97s, 99s and 00s) in the Bauer Invite in Chicago the first week of November.

http://www.invitebauer.com/_boys/Home.htm

Scroll down on the right hand side to get to a box with this years info. Impressive Tourney

Thank you Night Train - I was tired of asking...

Lee, when does this thread go into the Hall of Shame er I mean Fame?
It's basically a combination of the last 4 years of AAA conversation thrown into one month, epic.

Any movement on these teams coming together? For as much attention as this had it sure fizzled out.

Task Force 34 wrote:Any movement on these teams coming together? For as much attention as this had it sure fizzled out.

I’ll try to answer your question. I have no inside knowledge, I am not associated with anyone, I just did a little basic research. Here are the results.

The 97 Fire has 20 players on their current roster. They break down as follows.

MN Machine 5
MN Blades 4
MN Icemen 2
Team Torspo 2
Reebok Nat. 2
MN Edge 1

And 4 listed as Fire only. I expect these are the Wisconsin players…

As you can see the Fire only exists as a way for the Tier 1 players in Minnesota summer hockey to continue to play at a tier 1 level in the winter.

It seems to me that WAHA has decided to quit supporting the Minnesota summer hockey tier 1 farm system.

Minnesota hockey doesn’t seem to be willing to even explore the possibility of tier 1 hockey.

So .. It looks like next year the 16 kids from Minnesota will have to go back to their
respective associations (If they will let them), Sit out one year of winter hockey, or move
out of the state.

Itnteresting summer team break-down. Did they list this or did you look this stuff up? [Thanks]

quote]
So .. It looks like next year the 16 kids from Minnesota will have to go back to their
respective associations (If they will let them), Sit out one year of winter hockey, or move
out of the state.[/quote]

Would associations really not take back the players? I have never heard of such a thing, it's not high school. Just curious.

old goalie85 wrote:Itnteresting summer team break-down. Did they list this or did you look this stuff up? [Thanks]

I have a data base I'm building on 97's. So I just keep adding to it from web site and tournament rosters.

HeShootsHeScores wrote:quote]
So .. It looks like next year the 16 kids from Minnesota will have to go back to their
respective associations (If they will let them), Sit out one year of winter hockey, or move
out of the state.
Would associations really not take back the players? I have never heard of such a thing, it's not high school. Just curious.

I think they would take them back.. But, I think according to the recent rule they could make them sit out a year.

I could be wrong on this point...

I just re-read the rule. I was mistaken about a player sitting out a year. Sorry ...My bad!

Two years ago Kohls came back to the F.L. Bantams and was welcomed back. The next year he led the high school team in scoring as a soph. Why would a problem exist?

old goalie85 wrote:Two years ago Kohls came back to the F.L. Bantams and was welcomed back. The next year he led the high school team in scoring as a soph. Why would a problem exist?

Your correct. There is no problem.

Fuzzy thinking on my part !!

old goalie85 wrote:Two years ago Kohls came back to the F.L. Bantams and was welcomed back. The next year he led the high school team in scoring as a soph. Why would a problem exist?

Two years ago the situation was different.

It shouldn't be!!!!!!!

TriedThat2 wrote:From the MN Hockey website.

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/docu ... e_Form.pdf

According to the transfer protocol listed on the same page, the Fire needs to classify as a Tier 1 program or MN Hockey will not approve the waiver??

Shouldn't be, but it is.

hockeyover40 wrote:

TriedThat2 wrote:From the MN Hockey website.

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/docu ... e_Form.pdf

According to the transfer protocol listed on the same page, the Fire needs to classify as a Tier 1 program or MN Hockey will not approve the waiver??

Shouldn't be, but it is.

Thanks for the link...

I knew I read about the 12 month thing somewhere. The way I read the waiver form is that if a player chooses to play on the Fire, which is not classified as tier 1, they could be banned from Minnesota hockey for 12 months.

Do I have this wrong ?

Quasar wrote:

hockeyover40 wrote: Shouldn't be, but it is.

Thanks for the link...

I knew I read about the 12 month thing somewhere. The way I read the waiver form is that if a player chooses to play on the Fire, which is not classified as tier 1, they could be banned from Minnesota hockey for 12 months.

Do I have this wrong ?

No, you're right. The 12 month ban will also be enforced by MN Hockey when rosters are submitted and validated and not by the district or association at registration time, so invalid rosters would mean a ban from post season play for not only the team with the invalid player, but could mean the association as a whole would face sanctions.

I don't see the wording a kid can't play upon return to Minnesota. This waiver seems like the waiver if a MN kid is leaving to play for LA Selects or another Tier 1 team. My understanding when reading it is, a kid can come back and play MN Hockey at tier 2 or lower. Tier 2 is what association hockey is considered I believe.

Also I don't think this waiver applies to the Fire program as they are not Tier 1. With that nothing would be signed would it?

wording pasted
By affixing my/our signatures below, we attest:
1. The player named herein is duly registered with USA Hockey and Minnesota Hockey and is currently in good standing with both organizations and their respective affiliates.
2. The player named herein is a resident of the state of Minnesota and, even though playing hockey in another state, has no plan to change this residency status within the next twelve (12) months.
3. The sole purpose for this request is to enable the player named herein to participate in the sport of ice hockey at the Tier I level. To the best of my/our knowledge, there are no age appropriate programs in Minnesota currently competing at this level for which the player may be an eligible participant.
4. In the event the player named herein does not qualify for a Tier I team, or in the event the player opts not to participate in a Tier I program, the player shall return to Minnesota to participate at the Tier II level (or lower) or, if remaining outside Minnesota, refrain from hockey participation in any other non-Tier I program for the next twelve (12) months.
5. We understand that this Release automatically expires at the end of the current season, which operates from September 1 through August 31 of the current calendar year. If the player wishes to continue participation in a Tier I hockey program outside of Minnesota beyond the season stipulated herein, while retaining Minnesota residency, a new application for Release must be submitted.
Player’s Signature: __________________________________________________ Date: __________

4. In the event the player named herein does not qualify for a Tier I team, or in the event the player opts not to participate in a Tier I program, the player shall return to Minnesota to participate at the Tier II level (or lower) or, if remaining outside Minnesota, refrain from hockey participation in any other non-Tier I program for the next twelve (12) months.

I think this says .. If the player does not play for a tier 1 team (The Fire is not Tier 1) and remains outside the State of Minnesota, (playing for the Fire) that player would have to refrain from hockey in any other non tier 1 program for the next12 months.

It seems pretty clear to me that a kid playing for the Fire this winter could be made to sit out a year if he tried to return to association hockey next winter.

[quote="Quasar"][quote]4. In the event the player named herein does not qualify for a Tier I team, or in the event the player opts not to participate in a Tier I program, the player shall return to Minnesota to participate at the Tier II level (or lower) or, [b]if remaining outside Minnesota, refrain from hockey participation in any other non-Tier I program for the next twelve (12) months.[/b]
[/quote]

I think this says .. If the player does not play for a tier 1 team[b] (The Fire is not Tier 1[/b]) and remains outside the State of Minnesota,[b] (playing for the Fire)[/b] that player would have to refrain from hockey [b]in any other non tier 1 program for the next12 months.[/b]

It seems pretty clear to me that a kid playing for the Fire this winter could be made to sit out a year if he tried to return to association hockey next winter.[/quote]

Thanks Quasar, what if they don't get it signed by MN Hockey? Can they still play for the Fire this year?

It seems pretty clear to me that a kid playing for the Fire this winter could be made to sit out a year if he tried to return to association hockey next winter.

Thanks Quasar, what if they don't get it signed by MN Hockey? Can they still play for the Fire this year

I think they cannot get a waiver to play for the Fire, because the Fire is unclassified. Ie: not tier 1.

If you play outside the state without a waiver, you are still playing something other than tier 1.

The big question is ... does the rule still apply. I think it does.
Otherwise why write it in the first place? In my opinion it was written to address the Fire situation, and to keep anyone else from having the same idea.

I also think Minnesota Hockey is pretty short sighted on the whole Tier 1 argument. Too bad... They can be a part of the next generation of hockey in Minnesota, or they can fight progress..

If, as they say, Minnesota hockey is about the kids, how can they justify the "my way or the highway attitude ?? for the 10 % that want something more ??

Fire is a go

One of the parents told me they were granted Tier I status.

Don't know whether the Fire was granted Tier I status but will be watching
closely to see where the 97 kids go after this season if Minnesota Hockey does force them to wait out a year.
Seems to me alot of them could maybe make an easy jump to another Minnesota Tier I team. . . Shattuck St. Mary's! Why not? Then they could play and not have to wait out a year.
I hope it happens, it would be what Minnesota Hockey deserves after trying to force these kids back to association hockey.

The kids would be first year Bantams some may go to J.V.? [if left w/no other options]