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STA is a private school in a major metro area. They can draw from the affluent , big suburbs. The are an established school with decades of history and tradition.

They shouldn't be allowed to play in Class A. Neither should a number of other schools who have opted up and a couple who haven't.

Enrollment means nothing. Was anybody paying attention when the Class AA champ had less of an enrollment than the Class A champ last year? Why do we keep talking about enrollment as the sole criteria for Class placement?

Class A should be for Worthington, Albert Lea , and Crookston. Not for STA and Duluth Marshall.

I dont care whether STA was any good 10 years ago. There are many AA sized schools who have zero chance of making it. Should we create a tournament for them?

packerboy wrote:STA is a private school in a major metro area. They can draw from the affluent , big suburbs. The are an established school with decades of history and tradition.

They shouldn't be allowed to play in Class A. Neither should a number of other schools who have opted up and a couple who haven't.

Enrollment means nothing. Was anybody paying attention when the Class AA champ had less of an enrollment than the Class A champ last year? Why do we keep talking about enrollment as the sole criteria for Class placement?

Class A should be for Worthington, Albert Lea , and Crookston. Not for STA and Duluth Marshall.

I dont care whether STA was any good 10 years ago. There are many AA sized schools who have zero chance of making it. Should we create a tournament for them?

Can we just make this singular post a sticky?

I'm all for it, as we all are, make Marshall and St Thomas opt up. End of discussion?

packerboy wrote:
Enrollment means nothing. Was anybody paying attention when the Class AA champ had less of an enrollment than the Class A champ last year? Why do we keep talking about enrollment as the sole criteria for Class placement?

Class A should be for Worthington, Albert Lea , and Crookston. Not for STA and Duluth Marshall.

Sounds more like Tier 1/2 than class A/AA. I'm not old enough to remember, did people like the Tier 1/2 thing?

It wont even be close to the old Tier II thing. Besides, as this thing progresses, the opt ups will continue.

STA etc will get tired of being dissed for their Bsquad mentality. As this happens more teams will opt up and there will be no one for the "last dogs" to play.

If Hermantown, , STA and Marshall would opt up then whats left for Warroad and Breck ? BSM was a big opt up a couple of years ago. If that trend continues, Class A will resemble what a lot of people think it ought to be.

packerboy wrote:It wont even be close to the old Tier II thing. Besides, as this thing progresses, the opt ups will continue.

STA etc will get tired of being dissed for their Bsquad mentality. As this happens more teams will opt up and there will be no one for the "last dogs" to play.

If Hermantown, , STA and Marshall would opt up then whats left for Warroad and Breck ? BSM was a big opt up a couple of years ago. If that trend continues, Class A will resemble what a lot of people think it ought to be.

And that's exactly what I meant earlier in this thread "why wouldn't they want to"? and that goes for the others as well.

That is what could happen, and it may go back to a single class all by itself?

The thing that doesn't work here is the "hockey's different" attitude so many people on this board have. In just about all sports/activities there are multiple classes. Usually 8 sections, 8 teams per section before opting up. I can't think of it being conceivable the MSHSL would have a sport with 150+ teams and one class. Scheduling the post season would change dramatically as well.

What I think they should do is drop the bottom teams of AA after opts so there are only 64 teams in AA. It wouldn't be great, but that could do a good job of making up for opts.

heybuddy

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Yes they should!

Put it this way. They have 800 people at their school. How many girls go to their school? 0. If you double 800 you have 1600 which puts them in a big populated school. I understand they don't have girls at their school but if they did they would for sure be with the big schools.


Actually - STA has about 540 students. The MSHSL then doubles that number since they only have boys, giving them an enrollment on the MSHSL website of 1082.

Actually are in enrollment is exectly 525 on this day (grades 9-12) and if you tie 7th and 8th grade in there, that brings our numbers to 665. And you're right, we don't have any girls here! But like someone said earlier....what's in the numbers they're irrelevant I guess!!

STA is a good squad and has strung together a few good years. It is a little premature to start calling STA cowards for not moving up. I agree that if their success continues it would make sense for them to move up, but to get all bent out of shape because they had 3 or 4 good years is ridiculous. It is an obvious possibility that a talented class of '08 seniors have contributed to their success over the past 3 to 4 years. When the success begins to transcend individual classes of players and actually begins to resemble a dynasty, only then will talk of opting up will be relevant. STA has been around for decades and has never enjoyed success like they have of late. People can make arguements about recruiting and open enrollment all they want, but the fact of the matter is STA attracts talented and driven individuals because of facts such as they sent 100% of the '07 graduating class on to post secondary education. 9 times out of 10 I pull for the public school over private school myself, but it is just silly to expect STA to opt up after a couple good seasons.

packerboy wrote:There are many AA sized schools who have zero chance of making it. Should we create a tournament for them?

Be careful what you wish for... I hope STA never opts up... I love calling them cowards (plus the no girls thing is always good for a few laughs).

Quick question: How do you separate 2 kids at STA? Answer...with a crowbar! . Just a little humor before the game tomorrow night. Should be a fun one.

Neutron 14 wrote:St. Thomas skates at the lowest level possible. It would only take an ounce of character to opt up. It won't happen. They, like their fans will continue with thier lame rationalizations.

character has nothing to do with it you moron.

Neutron. If you can't speak with a little intelligence. Find a new hobby would ya please.. Or a girlfriend maybe??

droppin'gloves wrote:STA is a good squad and has strung together a few good years. It is a little premature to start calling STA cowards for not moving up. I agree that if their success continues it would make sense for them to move up, but to get all bent out of shape because they had 3 or 4 good years is ridiculous. It is an obvious possibility that a talented class of '08 seniors have contributed to their success over the past 3 to 4 years. When the success begins to transcend individual classes of players and actually begins to resemble a dynasty, only then will talk of opting up will be relevant. STA has been around for decades and has never enjoyed success like they have of late. People can make arguements about recruiting and open enrollment all they want, but the fact of the matter is STA attracts talented and driven individuals because of facts such as they sent 100% of the '07 graduating class on to post secondary education. 9 times out of 10 I pull for the public school over private school myself, but it is just silly to expect STA to opt up after a couple good seasons.

The Bsquad mentality in one paragraph.

CDH opts up and always has and they have been to a total of 2 state tournamnets, one time winning the championship. Everybody there would take that over 1,000 Class A trophies.

Everybody likes to win but most people, when they do win want it to be something meaningful...not something they have to explain with a lot of drivel.

The "hockey is different" attitude you're explaining is what's sad about hockey. In no other sport is winning the trophy not at the top a bad thing. You think GSL and TG have explaining to do because they "only" won the AAA and AAAA titles in football? You think everyone didn't know how good Braham was just because they were a AA school? You think there was any doubt in anyone's mind that Hopkins was the best team in state in basketball last year despite missing the tournament? The list can go on and the answer is always no.

So Hawkfan you are trying to tell me that public schools do not recruit for hockey that a bunch of B.S.

Oh and STA happens to have one of the easiest sections ever to get to the state tourney.

mnhockey30 wrote:So Hawkfan you are trying to tell me that public schools do not recruit for hockey that a bunch of B.S.

Oh and STA happens to have one of the easiest sections ever to get to the state tourney.

Which class A section has a better top 4 this year than STA's section? 5A? Maybe. 2A? Doubtful.....

They've been at the top of class A for 3 years now, but lets let them win more than 1 title before we call them a dynasty and force them up to AA.

HShockeywatcher wrote:The "hockey is different" attitude you're explaining is what's sad about hockey. In no other sport is winning the trophy not at the top a bad thing. You think GSL and TG have explaining to do because they "only" won the AAA and AAAA titles in football? You think everyone didn't know how good Braham was just because they were a AA school? You think there was any doubt in anyone's mind that Hopkins was the best team in state in basketball last year despite missing the tournament? The list can go on and the answer is always no.

The hockey is different argument is sad, but it is true. Instead of dividing the 150 something programs into 4-5 classes, you only have 2. Which, in my mind would make the AA title more prestigious. There are plenty of AA schools that would get killed in the A tournament.
Maybe the 2 teir tourny, with no opt ups would be more competitve.

Diclaimer: If I in any way have agreed with Circletalker in any way, I apologize.

In no sport are 150 kids divided into 4-5 classes. For football, basketball, and all other team sports, they take the top 64 in the top class, then the next 64, and so on. You'd need a minimum of 192 teams to start a third class.

If we had classes on the "bored" that would put you roughly at the bottom of...Single A

and the highest class would be...
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with 64 posters in a class.

Don't you people ever get tired of the St. Thomas Academy subject? I personally have no connection what so ever to St Thomas, but from everything i've heard it's a fabulous institution that turns out alot of great kids. So they have good run for a few year's and everbody cry's foul. This year's team has lot's of seniors. I would be willing to bet after this year things will even out again. I personally think it goes back to the same old thing. Jealosy & Envy. No one likes a winner..

ROOK EYE wrote:Don't you people ever get tired of the St. Thomas Academy subject? I personally have no connection what so ever to St Thomas, but from everything i've heard it's a fabulous institution that turns out alot of great kids. So they have good run for a few year's and everbody cry's foul. This year's team has lot's of seniors. I would be willing to bet after this year things will even out again. I personally think it goes back to the same old thing. Jealosy & Envy. No one likes a winner..

ROOK,

#1 We aren't just talking about STA.

#2 The only people who would be jealous woud be others with the Bsqaud mentality.

Warroad is a public school in a northern rural area. They can draw from a huge number of great hockey playing families with extra months of great outdoor and indoor ice. They are an established school with decades of history and tradition. They have won 4 class A state championships. That's four times as many at St. Thomas Academy.

They shouldn't be allowed to play in Class A. Neither should a number of other schools who have opted up and a couple who haven't.

Enrollment means nothing. Was anybody paying attention when the Class AA champ had less of an enrollment than the Class A champ last year? Why do we keep talking about enrollment as the sole criteria for Class placement?

Class A should be for Worthington, Albert Lea , and Crookston. Not for Warroad.

I dont care whether Warroad was any good 60 years ago. There are many AA sized schools who have zero chance of making it. Should we create a tournament for them?

stpaul wrote:Warroad is a public school in a northern rural area. They can draw from a huge number of great hockey playing families with extra months of great outdoor and indoor ice. They are an established school with decades of history and tradition. They have won 4 class A state championships. That's four times as many at St. Thomas Academy.

They shouldn't be allowed to play in Class A. Neither should a number of other schools who have opted up and a couple who haven't.

Enrollment means nothing. Was anybody paying attention when the Class AA champ had less of an enrollment than the Class A champ last year? Why do we keep talking about enrollment as the sole criteria for Class placement?

Class A should be for Worthington, Albert Lea , and Crookston. Not for Warroad.

I dont care whether Warroad was any good 60 years ago. There are many AA sized schools who have zero chance of making it. Should we create a tournament for them?

Hmmmm, interesting point of view.