HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

elliott70 wrote:Just checking to see how many are laughing and how many are fuming.

Neither, but for me:

Breck
Hermantown
EGF
Warroad



Why ? 'cause that's what I think is all.

Another way to look at the Class A field and Rankings

From: http://minnesotahockeymag.com/2014/01/1 ... n-1152014/

MHM Class A Top Ten 1/15/2014
By Tim Kolehmainen

Updated: January 15, 2014

For the most part, the rich got richer in Class 1A last week.

It was a big stretch of victories for the top 10 teams, as the programs combined to go 15-2-0 in 17 games (those that weren’t postponed due to the arctic blast early last week, of course). One of those losses, however, was handed to our No. 1 team, Breck, in a 4-3 overtime decision at Class 2A Moorhead. So was that enough to knock the Mustangs from the top spot?

Not quite.

Comparing results, losses and other factors, coach Les Larson’s club hangs onto the top spot by the narrowest of margins.

Class A rankings

1. Breck (9-3-1)

Last week: vs. Minneapolis (postponed), at St. Paul Academy (3-2 W), at Moorhead (4-3 L)

This week: vs. St. Cloud Cathedral (1/14), vs. Duluth Marshall (1/17)

One of the few losses suffered by our top 10 teams last week was by Breck, which fell in a 4-3 overtime game at Moorhead Saturday night. But looking at the body of the Mustangs’ work helps them retain the top spot in the rankings. All three of their losses have come to perennially strong Class 2A programs (4-1 to Edina, 2-1 to Duluth East and 4-3 at Moorhead), whereas they are a perfect 7-0-0 against Class 1A teams, outscoring them by a combined 46-9. That said, Breck is just 2-3-0 in its last five games and edged St. Paul Academy by a single goal in its other game last week — the same team Duluth Marshall beat 9-1 later in the week. It’s up to the top scorers such as Michael Orke (11-13-24), Chase Ellingson (6-18-24) and Mark Sharp (10-8-18) to power the offense after a slow week.



2. East Grand Forks (11-2-1)

Last week: at Grand Forks Central (3-1 W)

This week: at Roseau (1/14), at Bemidji (1/16), at Lake of the Woods (1/18)

East Grand Forks is another team that is being pressured for its No. 2 ranking by the two teams immediately below it. The Green Wave are winning and doing it with a dominant defensive effort. They’ve allowed more than two goals just once this year, already have 10 games in which they’ve allowed one or none, and average only 1.36 allowed per game. It’s a tribute to the fine veteran defensive corps led by Colton Poolman (2-7-9), Eddie Eades (2-2-4), Taylor Brierley (2-5-7) and Tye Ausmus (2-1-3). But the East Siders just aren’t getting much offense, either. They average 3.14 goals per game and no one has more than Tanner Tweten’s eight goals. A game this Tuesday night at Roseau will be an interesting measuring stick, as rival Warroad just beat the Rams 6-4.



3. Hermantown (11-2-0)

Last week: at Grand Rapids (postponed), vs. St. Cloud Cathedral (6-0 W)

This week: vs. Bemidji (1/18)

Since losing to Eagan in the South St. Paul Premier Tournament final over the holidays, the Hawks have been on a roll. Three straight victories by a combined 22-2 score over three perennially strong programs (Duluth Marshall, International Falls and St. Cloud Cathedral) have shown that Hermantown may deserve to jump into the top spot in the rankings. Like top-ranked Breck, the Hawks only losses have been to Class 2A powers (6-1 to Wayzata and 4-1 to Eagan). Scott Wasbotten (10-11-21) has also gotten hot, with four goals and five assists in the three blowout victories. Another thing to keep an eye on is the goaltending battle, senior Jace Thomas (6-0-0, 1.12, .953) got the nod in all three victories over All-State Adam Smith (5-2-0, 2.79, .875) and he’s responded well.


4. Warroad (13-2-1)

Last week: at Roseau (6-4 W), vs. Crookston (10-3 W)

This week: at Thief River Falls (1/16), vs. Moorhead (1/18)

It was a good week to be a Warroad fan. It was a better week to be Kobe Roth (31-30-61). After giving his verbal commitment to Minnesota-Duluth along with teammate Jared Bethune (24-35-59), the shifty junior rocked the northwest with seven goals in two victories over Roseau and Crookston last week. He started with four goals against Roseau, scoring at least once in each period, then had a hat trick against Crookston, as did Bethune. Meanwhile, all linemate Kyle Sylvester (20-35-55) did was pick up a goal and six assists in the two games. Fire wagon hockey reigns supreme with that top Warroad line, which features the top three point-getters in the entire state.



5. New Prague (10-2-2)

Last week: vs. Holy Angels (3-2 W), at Chaska (2-1 W)

This week: at Red Wing (1/14), vs. Northfield (1/16)

We said last week that New Prague wasn’t going to blow any teams out, but that the tough Trojans just know how to grind out victories this year. They proved it again last week, beating both opponents by a single goal. That’s actually four straight one-goal wins for New Prague, which is 6-2-2 in games decided by one goal or fewer. Augie Isaacson (11-15-26) scored twice in the win over Holy Angels, including the game-winner with just under four minutes remaining and had one of the team’s two goals against Chaska. He’s tied for the team lead in goals with Austin Kilian (11-8-19) and in points with Seth Kriha (5-21-26).



6. Mankato West (13-2-0)

Last week: vs. Rochester Lourdes (postponed), at Rochester Mayo (2-1 W), at Rochester Century (4-1 W)

This week: vs. Northfield (1/18)

West continued its unbeaten run through the Big 9 Conference last week, but it wasn’t easy as both Rochester Mayo and Century slowed down the Scarlets’ potent offense. In beating Mayo 2-1, West needed a goal from leading scorer Derek Frentz (15-23-38) with 27 seconds left to earn the win, despite outshooting the Spartans 35-17. They also outshot Century 46-15 but held a slim lead until Frentz again scored late in the third period to stretch it out comfortably. But as good teams do when snakebitten, coach Curtis Doell’s squad tightened up defensively. Jake Spiess (7-1-0, 1.36, .902) stopped 16 of 17 shots against Mayo and Conor Wollenzien (6-1-0, 1.29, .936) made 14 saves on 15 shots against Century.



7. Duluth Marshall (9-5-1)

Last week: at Superior, WI (4-2 W), vs. St. Paul Academy (9-1 W)

This week: at Breck (1/17), at Roseville (1/18)

Duluth Marshall avenged a loss in its holiday tournament to Superior (WI), beating the Spartans 4-2 to open last week, then posted an impressive 9-1 rout of St. Paul Academy, which had just played a one-goal game with top-ranked Breck. The Hilltoppers hope the transitive property works in their favor, as they travel to Breck this Thursday. Against Superior, Lane Krenzen (4-6-10), Jack Dodd (6-9-15) and Peter Lenz (6-4-10) scored to erase a 2-1 deficit as Marshall outshot the Spartans, 33-21. That scoring punch continued against SPA, as Lenz scored twice more and Luke Dow (6-12-18) had two goals and two assists. That kind of scoring balance is key, as the ‘Toppers have a strong overall lineup led by Luke Pavelich (12-11-23), but no true superstars.



8. Luverne (16-0-1)

Last week: at Fairmont (13-2 W), vs. Willmar (4-0 W)

This week: vs. Redwood Valley (1/17)

All right, it’s fair to admit that Luverne doesn’t have as strong a schedule as the teams above it in the rankings. That said, there’s something to be said for passing every test along the way. The Cardinals remained the lone unbeaten team in the state last week, including winning 4-0 against Willmar, a game many pointed at as a possible stumbling block for Luverne. But Logan Norman (14-27-41) scored twice and Kendall Meyer (11-0-1, 1.27, .954) stopped all 31 shots for the shutout as the Cardinals kept on rolling. While the offense of youngsters Chaz Smedsrud (23-30-53) and Jaxon Nelson (20-22-42) and seniors Norman and Gunnar Olson (16-17-33) gets most of the attention, Meyer has been outstanding in goal as a calm veteran presence.



9. Orono (10-4-0)

Last week: vs. Delano (postponed), at Bloomington Kennedy (3-1 W), at Litchfield/Dassel-Cokato (5-2 W)

This week: vs. Holy Family Catholic (1/14), vs. Delano (1/16), vs. Hopkins (1/18)

Orono hit the road last week and managed a pair of victories to keep pace with the rest of the top 10. Joey Luedtke (5-10-15) more than doubled his goal total on the season with three in the two victories. Getting offensive contributions from both top lines is key for the Spartans, as Jake Flemmer (9-7-16) leads the team in both goals and points. Goaltender Jonathon Flakne (9-3-0, 1.25, .941) continued to stymie opponents, as he made 13 saves on 14 shots against Kennedy and 27 of 25 against the Dragons. Much like New Prague, Orono doesn’t jump out at you with big point totals, but the Spartans know how to win.



10. St. Cloud Cathedral (9-5-0)

Last week: at Hermantown (6-0 L)

This week: at Breck (1/14), at Becker/Big Lake (1/16), vs. Mora/Hinckley-Finlayson (1/16)

That’s three straight losses and five in six games for St. Cloud Cathedral after being shut out at Hermantown last Friday. So whey are the Crusaders still ranked in the top 10? Look at the competition. The last three games have been on the road against the No. 2 (East Grand Forks), No. 4 (Warroad) and No. 3 (Hermantown) teams in Class 1A. The losing streak very well might hit four Tuesday night, as Cathedral travels to No. 1 Breck. The recent win-loss record doesn’t show it, but Cathedral is a good team hitting a very tough stretch of its schedule. Getting its offense going is key to a resurgence, as in those three losses, Cathedral has just one total goal — from Brady Johnston (7-2-9).



Others receiving votes:

Delano, Alexandria, Totino-Grace, Thief River Falls, Mahtomedi, St. Paul Academy, Chisago Lakes, Virginia/Mt. Iron-Buhl

pekyman wrote:At this point, I agree with the Let’s Play Hockey Rankings for the top 4.

Well of course you do; you agree with anything that has "your team" higher than other teams regardless of reason and don't give any feedback or respond to questions about your comments.

When I said it proves little, I'm saying in reference to the other 3 top teams. They're a top 4 team and I doubt even a loss or 2 would change that in anyone's mind.
Do you really consider a 6-0 win "better" than a 3-0 win? And enough to say that the team scoring the extra goals is the better team? Or even enough to say they are better than a team winning 3-1 just by that alone?

It's interesting that you conveniently didn't compare how Hermantown, Breck and Warroad did against Thief River Falls. Or bring up that Hermantown beat Denfeld in OT while Virginia shut them out. Or that New Prague lost "better" to Eagan than Hermantown did.
It's easy to cherry pick a team's schedule to make it say whatever you want, but ultimately it's about the schedule as a whole (with more weight on recent games), and mainly the results of games, not how they happen individually, but the trend of games throughout the season.

ted2you wrote:If anyone thinks they can find any real differences between those top four teams I'd be interested in hearing their logic.

There have been two games between the 4, both involved EGF, and Hermantown doesn't play any of the other 3. One of the games is a tie between Warroad and EGF and the other is an EGF loss to Breck less than 24 hours after they destroyed Blaine.
It is hard to know how much weight to give that game. Breck had 4 days rest and was at home, EGF had less than 24 hours rest and was on the road. I was tempted to put EGF at 2 and drop Breck to 3, but with that game, it's really hard.

-Breck has done nothing wrong and two of their 3 losses are to ranked AA teams. They have a win over Cathedral and shut out EGF.
-Warroad lost two close games with both Bemidji and Rapids, tied EGF on the road and has won the rest of their games handily, including 6 shut outs, and recently beat Roseau on the road.
-EGF beat Blaine, lost to Breck the next day, shut out Totino, beat Bemidji, tied Warroad, lost to the best team in WI and beat Cathedral.
-Hermantown has played four ranked A teams (Orono, TRF, Marshall and Cathedral) and beat them all and their two losses are to AA teams, Wayzata and Eagan.
They are doing what they do every year; playing close games on paper with lesser teams and beating some quality teams on their schedule.

For me, I look at the consistency of how teams are winning their games. Does it matter that Hermantown got killed by Wayzata in their first game or that Warroad lost to Bemidji? No. What does matter is that all of the wins on the schedules of 3 of the 4 teams are quite lop sided, while Hermantown has multiple close games with lesser teams.
Then with the top 3 I look at where they have won. Warroad stumbled in the beginning but hasn't lost in their last 10 games. EGF has been very consistent all season but lost to a good team "worse" than West and got shut out by Breck. Breck started the year really strong and in a batch of quality teams, they have stumbled as of late.
My guess from the outside looking in is that Hermantown is doing what they should be early in the season and figuring things out. They have a great program and great coaches who know what they're doing. Granted they're a month apart, but when you beat both Princeton and Marshall by the same score, there's more to that.
In the last 7 years, all the way back to their undefeated season, Hermantown has never come out and just decimated their opponents the way West is this year and other similar quality teams are. Which ultimately makes them hard to compare to other teams on paper, especially in a year like this where they don't play any of the other top 4 teams.

Anyway, that's just how I see it at the moment. All of the opinions I've gotten with substance to them support Hermantown not being in the top spot, but they always play the top teams tough, so it'll definitely be interesting to see how the top 3 get ranked at state. As many often point out, there's one ranking that really matters and it's the one at the end of the year.

Throw another monkey wrench in......

Duluth Marshall 3
Breck. 2

1 Hermantown
2 Duluth Marshall
3 Breck
4 East Grand Forks

And even before this win there's no way New Prague or Mankato West should be above Marshall in any ranking. Who have they beat to deserve it?

And I also like the comment about no true superstars on this DM team.
Maybe that Tim Kolehmainen guy needs to get out of the Twin Cities more.

I'm sure he bases it on the fact that there were no Elite League players from DM. They got snubbed for all the EGF and Hermantown players that were placed and didn't even try out.

New Prague and West don't have losses to teams like Apollo either. There is also that pesky Appleton United team Marshall tied that West put running time on. Pretty easy to forget that little tidbit isn't it?

Breck has been strange, they play well then they have games where they struggle; they beat Holy Angels by 1, same as a 3 win Red Wing team that has lost by double digits more than once this season.

Hockey North wrote: Maybe that Tim Kolehmainen guy needs to get out of the Twin Cities more.

Ummm, HockeyNorth...a slight correction to your unresearched statement. I've lived in Moorhead the past six years and I grew up in the Duluth area. Not sure anyone's ever called me a Twin Cities shill before.

Hockey North wrote:1 Hermantown
2 Duluth Marshall
3 Breck
4 East Grand Forks

And even before this win there's no way New Prague or Mankato West should be above Marshall in any ranking. Who have they beat to deserve it?

And I also like the comment about no true superstars on this DM team.
Maybe that Tim Kolehmainen guy needs to get out of the Twin Cities more.

I'm sure he bases it on the fact that there were no Elite League players from DM. They got snubbed for all the EGF and Hermantown players that were placed and didn't even try out.

You forgot Warroad...oh well they should change a couple doubters minds next Friday at Marshall

Marshall lost to Roseville, Mahtomedi beat Roseville.

Marshall lost to Apollo, Apollo lost to Acheivet, Luverne beat Acheiver, Marshall is lucky they're a top 10 team.

Closed circut to Sterfry

goldy313 wrote:Marshall lost to Roseville, Mahtomedi beat Roseville.

Marshall lost to Apollo, Apollo lost to Acheivet, Luverne beat Acheiver, Marshall is lucky they're a top 10 team.

Closed circut to Sterfry

Your analogy is really lacking in proving anything. We will see in February where it all shakes out. DM has proved it can play with anyone in A and who cares if they are ranked 20th.

And none of those teams you mention above could beat Breck, Grand Rapids, or Totino except DM.

dueling21 wrote:

Hockey North wrote: Maybe that Tim Kolehmainen guy needs to get out of the Twin Cities more.

Ummm, HockeyNorth...a slight correction to your unresearched statement. I've lived in Moorhead the past six years and I grew up in the Duluth area. Not sure anyone's ever called me a Twin Cities shill before.

Ummm, Oh I see because you grew up here but haven't lived here for six years your really in tune with hockey up here. Okay got it.
Maybe you do need to get out and watch a game up here. DM vs Warroad this Friday for starters.

Hockey North wrote:

dueling21 wrote:

Hockey North wrote: Maybe that Tim Kolehmainen guy needs to get out of the Twin Cities more.

Ummm, HockeyNorth...a slight correction to your unresearched statement. I've lived in Moorhead the past six years and I grew up in the Duluth area. Not sure anyone's ever called me a Twin Cities shill before.

Ummm, Oh I see because you grew up here but haven't lived here for six years your really in tune with hockey up here. Okay got it.
Maybe you do need to get out and watch a game up here. DM vs Warroad this Friday for starters.

Tim does an outstanding job covering north/northwest hs hockey, has for years.

In many ways, he's a voice in the wilderness; who else does it ?

Just because he didn't pick your team for something doesn't diminish that.

Hockey North wrote:

goldy313 wrote:Marshall lost to Roseville, Mahtomedi beat Roseville.

Marshall lost to Apollo, Apollo lost to Acheivet, Luverne beat Acheiver, Marshall is lucky they're a top 10 team.

Closed circut to Sterfry

Your analogy is really lacking in proving anything. We will see in February where it all shakes out. DM has proved it can play with anyone in A and who cares if they are ranked 20th.

And none of those teams you mention above could beat Breck, Grand Rapids, or Totino except DM.

Who cares? You care. You keep whining about it.

Lee

dueling21 wrote:

Hockey North wrote: Maybe that Tim Kolehmainen guy needs to get out of the Twin Cities more.

Ummm, HockeyNorth...a slight correction to your unresearched statement. I've lived in Moorhead the past six years and I grew up in the Duluth area. Not sure anyone's ever called me a Twin Cities shill before.

Ever been called a North Dakota shill?

Lee

Hockey North wrote:

goldy313 wrote:Marshall lost to Roseville, Mahtomedi beat Roseville.

Marshall lost to Apollo, Apollo lost to Acheivet, Luverne beat Acheiver, Marshall is lucky they're a top 10 team.

Closed circut to Sterfry

Your analogy is really lacking in proving anything. We will see in February where it all shakes out. DM has proved it can play with anyone in A and who cares if they are ranked 20th.

And none of those teams you mention above could beat Breck, Grand Rapids, or Totino except DM.

Mahtomedi beat Totino 4-3 this season.