Anders Lee

[HShockeywatcher]

You have that now. You don't have as many teams from lower classes, but with your example of football the top teams in 4A could easily compete with the top teams in 5A usually year in and year out, 3A with 4A and the same with basketball and probably many other sports.

Are classes supposed to be different levels of competition? For the most part, the MSHSL seems to like to see an "equal" representation of the state. What you're saying is a tier system. Making classes based on size has nothing to do with talent, it has to do with probable depth. Letting teams opt up basically says you're not confident in your system and turns it into a tier system.

Hockey is however the only sport where people try to take credit away from KIDS because their school is a certain size inside of giving them credit for their accomplishments.

And no, if teams weren't allowed to opt up, how many of the smaller teams do you think would make it? Maybe an Albert Lea, but Holy Angels and Orono would likely be in the same section.

[Neutron 14]

Hockey is however the only sport where people try to take credit away from KIDS because their school is a certain size inside of giving them credit for their accomplishments.

ZAP! Admin dusts and cleans on a whim again.

When all other arguments fail, HS plays the KID card!

Listen HS. Nobody has taken anything away from these kids. Nobody has said in any way these are not some of the most talented kids in the state. Nobody has mentioned STA is not one of the premier schools in the state. As a matter of fact the argument is the opposite. Therein lies the rub.

Want to compare hockey to other sports? You of anyone should know that size doesn't matter. "Why", is apparent if you've ever played the game(but you haven't), and worth another thread. But hockey IS different. Small school? The MSHSL put us here? Lame at best.

I congratulate Anders on setting his sights on higher goals.

p.s. The MSHSL did not dictate two classes as you have suggested. It was petitioned for by the coaches. Why we do or do not have two classes rests with them, not some fictional bad guy called the MSHSL. We've always had geographical not "equal" representation. Except for that "back door" era. Probably shouldn't mention that to an STA guy...

[breakout]

Hockey is however the only sport where people try to take credit away from KIDS because their school is a certain size inside of giving them credit for their accomplishments.

You of anyone should know that size doesn't matter.

[Neutron 14]

Hockey is however the only sport where people try to take credit away from KIDS because their school is a certain size inside of giving them credit for their accomplishments.

You of anyone should know that size doesn't matter.

Obviously a guess, but I don't expect much dissent...

[breakout]

You of anyone should know that size doesn't matter.

Obviously a guess, but I don't expect much dissent...

I consider you a knowledgeable hockey person. I will not question your assertion.

[thestickler07]

Neutron, packerboy, why argue with HS? Honestly? Everyone already knows he is wrong, and you look stupid stooping to his level to try and address him. Its essentially beating up/outthinking a retarded person, you don't look tough or smart doing it. He thinks A and AA are equal in skill, and that is obviously not true. AA is more prestigious, more competitive top to bottom, and overall more of what the tournament should be.

They SHOULD goto a 16 team state tournament, eliminate opt ups, and have 1A play 1AA etc. That would be fun to watch. Is the A title and accomplishment? Yes, but it doesn't come with the same glamour of the AA title, but why not just have ONE Minnesota State High School Hockey Champion?

That being said, I have already put forward the best reasons for why STA doesn't opt up, I honestly don't care what you think about them not opting up, because we have heard those opinions plenty of times and they are terribly cliche. I personally think they should opt up, and I think they soon will. So lets just leave it at that huh?

[packerboy]

OK, fine stickler. We will argue with you then.

1. A 16 team tournament probably wont happen because it wold take too long unless they can play 4 games in 4 days. In addition,AA schools are never going to agree to play A schools in the same tournament and I dont blame them.
Why would White Bear Lake agree to play STA in the same tournament when STA got there by beating Lacresent and Red Wing and WBL got there by beatng HM and Roseville.

2. Neither Neut nor I give a flyng flip what level STA plays at. He has kids at Centennial and I have kids at CDH. We dont care. But when STA fans such as HS wonder why a kid would leave to play at the hgher levels of his sports, we are nice enough to try and explain it to him. BTW, HS is not a retard and his thinking process is shared by many STA fans.

3. Your reasons for STA not opting up are limp at best. CDH doesnt have a football field. They play at the Highland rink and they don't have any more baseball fields than STA does. Facilities arent the reason.

The reason is because they want to win and win consistently. Staying in the lower classes allows them to do that. Why not just admit that?

[Can't Never Tried]

Crap! I missed all the fun

[Neutron 14]

Crap! I missed all the fun

packerboy just served one up.

[Can't Never Tried]

Crap! I missed all the fun

packerboy just served one up.

Can I get a shooter with that?

[HShockeywatcher]

I love it how when I say certain things I am put down but yet my opinions are shared by many and when others say the same things they are agreed with. Or I pose questions and people jump down my throat.

1. A and AA are probably close to even in skill if you go by the schools that would be there based on size, which has been my point for some time now. I started a thread a while ago where numerous people agreed not allowing opt ups would make for two good tournaments. Yes, the AA tourney is competitive from start to finish and you have to make it to the semi's for it to be in A.

2. I agree that with continued success St Thomas should take one for the team and opt up, but they have one title under their belt with only a third place finish last year AND in the last yearish have lost 6 top players that have kept them from probably being a top team in all of state. If none of these players had left I would even argue for them to opt up next year.

3. Why not Hermantown? They just won state, have been good consistently for the last many, many years. Why shouldn't they opt up? Some have suggested Warroad to, but if all the good teams are to opt up we are left with a tier system.

4. A 16 team tournament doesn't make sense. It does in idea, but we are in a system where there are 8 sections, 16 would never happen, or mixing sections from different classes; if they play in the same tourney by definition they wouldn't be in different classes.

5. As much as you want to completely ignore everything I've said, I can completely understand moving from a Class A powerhouse to a Class AA powerhouse if hockey was your only sport. But, whether their football team is in a higher class or not, the other two sports the kid plays are better at the school he is leaving.

I'm fine seeing people put me down with no specifics and ramble and ramble about things that aren't even in what I've written; really just gives me a laugh.

[mnhockey22]

I'm fine seeing people put me down with no specifics and ramble and ramble about things that aren't even in what I've written; really just gives me a laugh.

If it doesn't bother you then why do you complain about it so much?

[Can't Never Tried]

I agree most people are fine with it too!

[HShockeywatcher]

I complain because this is a hockey forum and instead of talking about hockey you waste you posts putting me down. Fine, do it, but also comment on the things I've said.

[Neutron 14]

I complain because this is a hockey forum and instead of talking about hockey you waste you posts putting me down. Fine, do it, but also comment on the things I've said.

We ALWAYS comment on things you say.

Like Lee says, "get off the cross, we need the wood".

[scoreboard33]

I'm responding to many things.

First of all, everone thinks AA is better tthan A. In football everyone know E.P. is the champion, same with Cretin in baseball. The only reason people try to "take away" from the A champion is that they feel the A champion is trying to claim to be equal to the AA state champion and they are not. They may even be equally skilled teams, I'm not saying that has happened, but the AA team competed against the best the state had to offer and beat them all. They won the championship. A is no less a champion, they just didn't compete against the best the state could offer.

No opt ups is not fair. You should no punish a school for being small if they want to compete with the best the state has.

S.T.A. is very good at all sports, but Edina's Class of 2009 wins just about every thing. They will be able to compete in football and baseball. No other class has had near the success the 2009 class has had.

Also, Edina's hockey team has a chance to be classified with one of the best of all time. This may be a little pre-emptive, but if they do well this year and next, they could end up being a great team. With Anders and Friedman they are just more likely to do it. The 2009 class is amazing.

[Can't Never Tried]

Good luck to Anders!

And what the______is a wasted post?

Just have one class and a larger tournament ....that's it !

It's getting like the little kids soccer tournaments I'm hearing about, everyone gets a trophy before the thing starts Even the little kids are asking what the heck are we playing for if we all get a trophy?? the answer: you kids are all winners??? that's just great Huh!

That's the class system, can't just have one best, got to have 2 or three or 5 champs...i think if Roseau can win it with being a small "A" size town and all that, anyone can do it...it's about old fashion training, hard work and desire to be the best!
#'s say that those small schools can't compete because of the talent pool, BS take a small group that will work hard, be true to the goal, and work as a team and you can do amazing things.
I think even STA wishes you would pick another school to cry for

[Hockeyguy_27]

Good luck to Anders!

And what the______is a wasted post?

Just have one class and a larger tournament ....that's it !

It's getting like the little kids soccer tournaments I'm hearing about, everyone gets a trophy before the thing starts Even the little kids are asking what the heck are we playing for if we all get a trophy?? the answer: you kids are all winners??? that's just great Huh!

That's the class system, can't just have one best, got to have 2 or three or 5 champs...i think if Roseau can win it with being a small "A" size town and all that, anyone can do it...it's about old fashion training, hard work and desire to be the best!
#'s say that those small schools can't compete because of the talent pool, BS take a small group that will work hard, be true to the goal, and work as a team and you can do amazing things.
I think even STA wishes you would pick another school to cry for

Clapping hands and cheering. I'm glad someone finally said it.

[packerboy]

Classes are fine in some sports and not in others.

A state tournamnet with a number of classes is fne so long as the lower classes are willing to allow the hgher classes center stage.

Whats wrong with the nine man footbal teams coming to the Metrodome and playing for a trophy at 9:00 AM?

Who cares if Class A hockey starts on Wednesday and the championship is on Saturday afternoon?

What bugs me is when the tournamnets get ruined because they want to be inclusive. A few years back, the basketball tournament was a complete clusterfluke. The highest class quaterfinal games were played at remote locations outside of downtown. The highest class semifinals were on Friday afternoon.

That was BS.That wasnt being in the state tournamnet , it was just an extension of the season. I dont know if they fixed that or not.

Anyway, so long as 9man plays at sunrise and Class A plays in the afternoons on Friday and Saturday, let them hand out trophys like Halloween candy.

[HShockeywatcher]

What gets me is how everyone associates size with talent. Which is my big backing for my idea of no opting. It's not to say there isn't more talent, obviously there is, because the talent pool is that much bigger. It is very possible the Warroad team of 2005 was the best team in state that year. It is very possible this part year's St Thomas team, if someone hadn't left, could've been one of the top teams in state. But if they were no one would give them that kind of credit because they play in the lower class. Which is what I think is really sad. But it is simply because of what people have been saying about the level of competition.

For example, something close to home for me, St Thomas and Hill Murray. To get to state semi's St Thomas has maybe one tough game. To get to the section semi's Hill Murray will probably have a tough game. There were 3 teams people were giving a shot to win the "other" tourney and there were probably more than twice that that had a shot of the main tourney. If teams didn't opt up you'd have a tourney based solely on size and you couldn't try to contribute talent to the class. Which is how it has come to in (just about) all sports. You'd see much more competition.

The teams of St Norbert and Wisconsin Superior the last handful of years could probably easily step out on the ice with your average D1 team and not get dominated. In fact, they'd probably have the upper hand on some of the teams.

I think track, cross country, and swimming are perfect examples of showing this. The depth is inarguably deeper in AA in all three, but many years teams and individuals from A dominate the times and distances of kids from AA. Braham basketball is also a great example about how the size of your school shouldn't put you in this category of how good you could possibly be.

[power92]

The teams of St Norbert and Wisconsin Superior the last handful of years could probably easily step out on the ice with your average D1 team and not get dominated. In fact, they'd probably have the upper hand on some of the teams.

.

[Neutron 14]

What gets me is how everyone associates size with talent.

Umm... You might want to actually read some responses to your posts in this thread.

The teams of St Norbert and Wisconsin Superior the last handful of years could probably easily step out on the ice with your average D1 team and not get dominated. In fact, they'd probably have the upper hand on some of the teams.

BTW, HS is not a retard...

CALL THE RETRACTION POLICE!

[breakout]

I'm responding to many things.

First of all, everone thinks AA is better tthan A. In football everyone know E.P. is the champion, same with Cretin in baseball. The only reason people try to "take away" from the A champion is that they feel the A champion is trying to claim to be equal to the AA state champion and they are not. They may even be equally skilled teams, I'm not saying that has happened, but the AA team competed against the best the state had to offer and beat them all. They won the championship. A is no less a champion, they just didn't compete against the best the state could offer.

No opt ups is not fair. You should no punish a school for being small if they want to compete with the best the state has.

S.T.A. is very good at all sports, but Edina's Class of 2009 wins just about every thing. They will be able to compete in football and baseball. No other class has had near the success the 2009 class has had.

Also, Edina's hockey team has a chance to be classified with one of the best of all time. This may be a little pre-emptive, but if they do well this year and next, they could end up being a great team. With Anders and Friedman they are just more likely to do it. The 2009 class is amazing.

When was the last time Edina had a football team or baseball team that competed at a high level? The class of 2009 won't be any different. Hockey yes, anything else will be run of the mill as usual. Take it to the bank.

[topshelf10]

I'm sure this has already been said a lot but as an STA student and hockey player...

HShockeywatcher get off this forum, you are a horrible representation of what St. Thomas and its community is all about.

You've done enough damage to destory any type of credibility STA had on here.

[Pucknutz69]

It is this simple.

Crandall = Gone to Green Bay
Walters = Mom says if he gets the invite to NTDP he is gone, and by the results of the Nationals I would say that isn't far from happening.

Mr Lee saw the writing on the wall. Go win 2 State Championships with Edina.