SECoach wrote:
Hatred?...just having a conversation here. . Does that help? As i said, we choose not to play them. When the basketball team becomes an affiliate member of USA Hockey then yes, they would need a waiver. No waiver needed to play at Minnesota Made, as they are not an affiliate member of USA Hockey. People are free to create their own organization, such as Minnesota Made and make their own rules. This does not apply to the Fire as they are, through Wisconsen Hockey, and affiliate member of USA Hockey.
SECoach,
This forum is great, but sometimes individuals just flat out throw something out there that others assume is true.
Since you didn't explain the proper waiver process and the proper channels to follow if some kid wants to play for the Fire, how would you know many if not most of the Minnesota residents have not obtained the proper waivers and gone through the proper channels?
You are right, that happens alot and i try my best to not throw stuff out there. Thanks for the explanation Elliott.
As Elliott said it is left to the District to decide how they handle this. Because of the reasons I stated previously, our district does not approve games played against the Fire. How do I know this? Ummm, because i go to District meetings and listen.
I'll edit this to add so you can tell that i don't hate the Fire or their players. We just don't play them. No problem.
SECoach
What is the proper waiver process and the proper channels to follow if some kid wants to play for the Fire from your district? How would you know many if not most of the Minnesota residents have not obtained the proper waivers and gone through the proper channels? When you say "Thanks for the explanation Elliott", are you referring to his post on Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:22 pm when he states "So in the case of the Fire - no a waiver is not necessary. "
It was a rant and the thoughts were tied together on purpose. Just wanted to throw stuff at the wall to see what would stick.
A different perspective never hurts especially in an area where we seem to have multpile views most of which are the same.
To not want to let the fire into a tournament I totally understand, however to make up rules within the district to prevent a team from making that decision by themselves seems to be more than a district directors duty. (sounds too personal).
As for the Shattuck issue, all I was trying to say was they choose not to be part of the best high school model in the country, WHY. The answer is obvious. Then I here the same people say I can't believe you let your kid go to play for the FIRE yet as the reply above mentions you have no problems with the public school vs private school issue. ANd please don't tell me it's because of the education, believe it or not I am smarter than that.
I like the deabte aspect of this board rather than the personal attacks. The FIRE is an easy target and probably have earned some scrutiny for past issues, but for everyone to say no way your kid wanted to go try-out purely a dad decision is quite frankly wrong. Not in every case but many.
Should an association which has lost multiple kids to the FIRE play the fire, perhaps not, but what right does that association then have to tell others what to do.
All my rant was trying to point out is that too few people have too much control in the state, and only seem to use it for negative issues or issues that benefit them and their kids.
Volunteer - I do and have done and will continue to do so but not because it benefits my kid, only because I do it to help as many kids as possible. Please don't dispute this unless you know me and most if not all of you don't. For those of you volunteering to help here's a tip for you.
Don't coach your kid. Spend the season as coach coaching all the other players and ask your assistant coaches to help with your kid.
Don't try to stop new ideas but embrace them and see what might work.
I look forward to seeing what Minnesota hockey does with it's money.
Basically what I'm hearing is we should just send every associations cut and be done with it, but I bet that isn't what the money is for, wonder why??
sparkles wrote:It was a rant and the thoughts were tied together on purpose. Just wanted to throw stuff at the wall to see what would stick.
A different perspective never hurts especially in an area where we seem to have multpile views most of which are the same.
To not want to let the fire into a tournament I totally understand, however to make up rules within the district to prevent a team from making that decision by themselves seems to be more than a district directors duty. (sounds too personal).
As for the Shattuck issue, all I was trying to say was they choose not to be part of the best high school model in the country, WHY. The answer is obvious. Then I here the same people say I can't believe you let your kid go to play for the FIRE yet as the reply above mentions you have no problems with the public school vs private school issue. ANd please don't tell me it's because of the education, believe it or not I am smarter than that.
I like the deabte aspect of this board rather than the personal attacks. The FIRE is an easy target and probably have earned some scrutiny for past issues, but for everyone to say no way your kid wanted to go try-out purely a dad decision is quite frankly wrong. Not in every case but many.
Should an association which has lost multiple kids to the FIRE play the fire, perhaps not, but what right does that association then have to tell others what to do.
All my rant was trying to point out is that too few people have too much control in the state, and only seem to use it for negative issues or issues that benefit them and their kids.
Volunteer - I do and have done and will continue to do so but not because it benefits my kid, only because I do it to help as many kids as possible. Please don't dispute this unless you know me and most if not all of you don't. For those of you volunteering to help here's a tip for you.
Don't coach your kid. Spend the season as coach coaching all the other players and ask your assistant coaches to help with your kid.
Don't try to stop new ideas but embrace them and see what might work.
I look forward to seeing what Minnesota hockey does with it's money.
Basically what I'm hearing is we should just send every associations cut and be done with it, but I bet that isn't what the money is for, wonder why??
I don't, and never have attacked the Fire. We just don't play them. Are you ok with that?
High School Hockey is governed by a different organization than youth hockey. It makes sense to me they would have different rules.
i believe Minnesota Hockey does a pretty good job legislating the big picture and leaving many decisions up to the individual districts, and the districts leave many decisions up to the local affiliates. What works well in District 1 may not work well in District 16, what works well in Forest Lake may not work well in White Bear Lake.
Do you really believe that the Minnesota Hockey board makes their decisions to benefit their own kids? Or that your District Board makes their decisions to benefit their own kids? I don't think mine does. Perhaps i just landed in a District where they think like i do and you landed in one where they dont think like you do. Thats the great part about how things are set up. If you don't like something you work to change it or pack up and move.
This forum is great, but sometimes individuals just flat out throw something out there that others assume is true.
Since you didn't explain the proper waiver process and the proper channels to follow if some kid wants to play for the Fire, how would you know many if not most of the Minnesota residents have not obtained the proper waivers and gone through the proper channels?
You are right, that happens alot and i try my best to not throw stuff out there. Thanks for the explanation Elliott.
As Elliott said it is left to the District to decide how they handle this. Because of the reasons I stated previously, our district does not approve games played against the Fire. How do I know this? Ummm, because i go to District meetings and listen.
I'll edit this to add so you can tell that i don't hate the Fire or their players. We just don't play them. No problem.
SECoach
What is the proper waiver process and the proper channels to follow if some kid wants to play for the Fire from your district? How would you know many if not most of the Minnesota residents have not obtained the proper waivers and gone through the proper channels? When you say "Thanks for the explanation Elliott", are you referring to his post on Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:22 pm when he states "So in the case of the Fire - no a waiver is not necessary. "
I guess i know because i'm one of the bad guys. No, i was not referring to Elliott's post from October 14th. I can't figure out why you have such a problem that we don't play the Fire. Go play them if you like and it conforms with the rules of your District and Association. If you are with the Fire, go play someone that can or is willing to play you. No problem. I have my personal stand on this. You are entitled to yours and i believe i am entitled to mine. (just in case you think i'm angry or hate someone)
SECoach - Thanks, you don't play the FIRE no problem but the issue isn't who does and who doesn't play any team, it's that one director feels it appropriate to tell everyone they cannot.
Do I believe that minnesota hockey makes decisions for the benefit of their own kids. Not at all. Do I believe some district directors make decisions that appear to be personal - You bet.
As for yeahyeahyeah - your response regarding Edina DOING WHAT IS RIGHT and playing two A teams. That sums up the whole system. It is great to provide multiple levels for kids to play at, but when one starts to do better than others rather than look at what that association is doing well (other than just having big numbers) we say they should do whatever they can to to come back to the pack.
We all agree that providing something for everyone is a wonderful model, but once a team starts to dominate bring them back to the pack.
Is that the best thing for the top players on that team, probably not but at least all the kids losing to this team won't feel bad.
Yes Minnesota does a good job but to constantly tell the best they need to stop and play nice seems to be counterproductive to some. Whatever happened to playing at the rink with the big kids and learning from chasing them around while they killed the little guys. You know what happened, too many parents got involved so little johnny doesn't feel bad.
someone mentioned life lessons in an earlier post, the truth is our generation is doing everything possilble to protect billy and johnny from having their feelings hurt rather than allowing them to learn what they need to do to no longer get beat by the bigger kids.
Oh yeah those same parents who complain about EDINA's wealth of talent forget all about it when their son plays with a team full of EDINA kids with one of the select teams.
It isn't the kids who can't handle losing!!!
sparkles wrote:SECoach - Thanks, you don't play the FIRE no problem but the issue isn't who does and who doesn't play any team, it's that one director feels it appropriate to tell everyone they cannot.
Do I believe that minnesota hockey makes decisions for the benefit of their own kids. Not at all. Do I believe some district directors make decisions that appear to be personal - You bet.
As for yeahyeahyeah - your response regarding Edina DOING WHAT IS RIGHT and playing two A teams. That sums up the whole system. It is great to provide multiple levels for kids to play at, but when one starts to do better than others rather than look at what that association is doing well (other than just having big numbers) we say they should do whatever they can to to come back to the pack.
We all agree that providing something for everyone is a wonderful model, but once a team starts to dominate bring them back to the pack.
Is that the best thing for the top players on that team, probably not but at least all the kids losing to this team won't feel bad.
Yes Minnesota does a good job but to constantly tell the best they need to stop and play nice seems to be counterproductive to some. Whatever happened to playing at the rink with the big kids and learning from chasing them around while they killed the little guys. You know what happened, too many parents got involved so little johnny doesn't feel bad.
someone mentioned life lessons in an earlier post, the truth is our generation is doing everything possilble to protect billy and johnny from having their feelings hurt rather than allowing them to learn what they need to do to no longer get beat by the bigger kids.
Oh yeah those same parents who complain about EDINA's wealth of talent forget all about it when their son plays with a team full of EDINA kids with one of the select teams.
It isn't the kids who can't handle losing!!!
I appreciate you clearing up what you disagree with. If are in a District that does not play the Fire, and you want to (I'm assuming by this you have a role other than parent or you would not care so much whether you are or are not allowed to play the Fire) go to a District meeting and share your feelings, open a discussion on the topic. I know this has not happened in our District as no one (inside the district) seems to have a problem with it.
SECoach wrote:
You are right, that happens alot and i try my best to not throw stuff out there. Thanks for the explanation Elliott.
As Elliott said it is left to the District to decide how they handle this. Because of the reasons I stated previously, our district does not approve games played against the Fire. How do I know this? Ummm, because i go to District meetings and listen.
I'll edit this to add so you can tell that i don't hate the Fire or their players. We just don't play them. No problem.
SECoach
What is the proper waiver process and the proper channels to follow if some kid wants to play for the Fire from your district? How would you know many if not most of the Minnesota residents have not obtained the proper waivers and gone through the proper channels? When you say "Thanks for the explanation Elliott", are you referring to his post on Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:22 pm when he states "So in the case of the Fire - no a waiver is not necessary. "
I guess i know because i'm one of the bad guys. No, i was not referring to Elliott's post from October 14th. I can't figure out why you have such a problem that we don't play the Fire. Go play them if you like and it conforms with the rules of your District and Association. If you are with the Fire, go play someone that can or is willing to play you. No problem. I have my personal stand on this. You are entitled to yours and i believe i am entitled to mine. (just in case you think i'm angry or hate someone)
SECoach,
Sloooooooow doooooooown and read my questions again. Either answer them or say I am not going to answer. Please, please, please tell me where I said I have such a problem that you don't play the Fire? I don't know who "YOU" are? Are you speaking from an association level or are you speaking from a district level?
SECoach wrote:I answered the ones i care to answer.
SECoach,
Allow me to recap.
SECoach doesn't imply that there is a MH rule preventing teams from playing the Fire. (That's OK because the District 6 Director did a great job in doing that.)
The District or Association that SECoach is with chooses not to play the Fire.
SECoach refuses to explain the proper waiver process and the proper channels to follow if some kid wants to play for the Fire from his district, but knows that many if not most of the MN residents have not obtained the proper waivers and gone through the proper channels.
SECoach believes the Fire teams are built on disgruntled parents who think they have found a way around MH's "member supported" community based program.
SECoach, please return the Nobel Peace Prize you are not worthy
This forum is great, but sometimes individuals just flat out throw something out there that others assume is true.
Since you didn't explain the proper waiver process and the proper channels to follow if some kid wants to play for the Fire, how would you know many if not most of the Minnesota residents have not obtained the proper waivers and gone through the proper channels?
You are right, that happens alot and i try my best to not throw stuff out there. Thanks for the explanation Elliott.
As Elliott said it is left to the District to decide how they handle this. Because of the reasons I stated previously, our district does not approve games played against the Fire. How do I know this? Ummm, because i go to District meetings and listen.
I'll edit this to add so you can tell that i don't hate the Fire or their players. We just don't play them. No problem.
SECoach
What is the proper waiver process and the proper channels to follow if some kid wants to play for the Fire from your district? How would you know many if not most of the Minnesota residents have not obtained the proper waivers and gone through the proper channels? When you say "Thanks for the explanation Elliott", are you referring to his post on Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:22 pm when he states "So in the case of the Fire - no a waiver is not necessary. "
I misspoke apparently.
I had not read the WI rules - it appears a waiver is needed based on their rules and interpretting the USAH rule.
However, I still may be wrong as the defining individual(s) is the Central District USAH associate registrar (or designees).
SECoach wrote:I answered the ones i care to answer.
SECoach,
Allow me to recap.
SECoach doesn't imply that there is a MH rule preventing teams from playing the Fire. (That's OK because the District 6 Director did a great job in doing that.)
The District or Association that SECoach is with chooses not to play the Fire.
SECoach refuses to explain the proper waiver process and the proper channels to follow if some kid wants to play for the Fire from his district, but knows that many if not most of the MN residents have not obtained the proper waivers and gone through the proper channels.
SECoach believes the Fire teams are built on disgruntled parents who think they have found a way around MH's "member supported" community based program.
SECoach, please return the Nobel Peace Prize you are not worthy
Thanks for the recap . Some of it is accurate and some of it is not, but thanks.
Nobel Peace Prize? Will i get the notice by mail or by phone? If i were to win it i would keep it because i could use the cash.
"If you stand for nothing you will fall for anything"
SECoach wrote:I answered the ones i care to answer.
SECoach,
Allow me to recap.
SECoach doesn't imply that there is a MH rule preventing teams from playing the Fire. (That's OK because the District 6 Director did a great job in doing that.)
The District or Association that SECoach is with chooses not to play the Fire.
SECoach refuses to explain the proper waiver process and the proper channels to follow if some kid wants to play for the Fire from his district, but knows that many if not most of the MN residents have not obtained the proper waivers and gone through the proper channels.
SECoach believes the Fire teams are built on disgruntled parents who think they have found a way around MH's "member supported" community based program.
SECoach, please return the Nobel Peace Prize you are not worthy
Thanks for the recap . Some of it is accurate and some of it is not, but thanks.
Nobel Peace Prize? Will i get the notice by mail or by phone? If i were to win it i would keep it because i could use the cash.
"If you stand for nothing you will fall for anything"
sparkles wrote:SECoach - Thanks, you don't play the FIRE no problem but the issue isn't who does and who doesn't play any team, it's that one director feels it appropriate to tell everyone they cannot.
Do I believe that minnesota hockey makes decisions for the benefit of their own kids. Not at all. Do I believe some district directors make decisions that appear to be personal - You bet.
As for yeahyeahyeah - your response regarding Edina DOING WHAT IS RIGHT and playing two A teams. That sums up the whole system. It is great to provide multiple levels for kids to play at, but when one starts to do better than others rather than look at what that association is doing well (other than just having big numbers) we say they should do whatever they can to to come back to the pack.
We all agree that providing something for everyone is a wonderful model, but once a team starts to dominate bring them back to the pack.
Is that the best thing for the top players on that team, probably not but at least all the kids losing to this team won't feel bad.
Yes Minnesota does a good job but to constantly tell the best they need to stop and play nice seems to be counterproductive to some. Whatever happened to playing at the rink with the big kids and learning from chasing them around while they killed the little guys. You know what happened, too many parents got involved so little johnny doesn't feel bad.
someone mentioned life lessons in an earlier post, the truth is our generation is doing everything possilble to protect billy and johnny from having their feelings hurt rather than allowing them to learn what they need to do to no longer get beat by the bigger kids.
Oh yeah those same parents who complain about EDINA's wealth of talent forget all about it when their son plays with a team full of EDINA kids with one of the select teams.
It isn't the kids who can't handle losing!!!
I appreciate you clearing up what you disagree with. If are in a District that does not play the Fire, and you want to (I'm assuming by this you have a role other than parent or you would not care so much whether you are or are not allowed to play the Fire) go to a District meeting and share your feelings, open a discussion on the topic. I know this has not happened in our District as no one (inside the district) seems to have a problem with it.
So again my issue isn't the rules or regulations, it is that certain people want to take it upon themselves to pass rules over others purely for personal reasons.
Perhaps someone can clear up the rule that states distict directors have the right to tell the members who each association can play and where they can play.
Oholene - Rather than tell you what district I am in all I will tell you is I am not from either of the two districts which I am questioning.
sparkles wrote:So again my issue isn't the rules or regulations, it is that certain people want to take it upon themselves to pass rules over others purely for personal reasons.
Perhaps someone can clear up the rule that states distict directors have the right to tell the members who each association can play and where they can play.
Oholene - Rather than tell you what district I am in all I will tell you is I am not from either of the two districts which I am questioning.
Sparkles clears this up for us, why the deep interest in this? Are you dissapointed your Fire player will not be able to play against his old association?
Oyea I love the moniker "sparkles" I think we met at gentlemens club in New York last year, I'm still waiting for my change
Follow up on Muck's comment: why all the hullabaloo? D6 restricts teams that can play in D6 hosted tournaments. Those spots will not go unfilled. D6 teams will still get to play those teams at tournaments hosted in other districts or in scheduled games/scrimmages.
Follow up on oholene's comment: SEC, what district are you in. Unaware of a district imposing a rule against playing these teams, which district is?
sparkles wrote:So again my issue isn't the rules or regulations, it is that certain people want to take it upon themselves to pass rules over others purely for personal reasons.
Perhaps someone can clear up the rule that states distict directors have the right to tell the members who each association can play and where they can play.
Oholene - Rather than tell you what district I am in all I will tell you is I am not from either of the two districts which I am questioning.
The district director is the ultimate authority over associations within his/her district. Based on various parts of MH rule and distinctly from USAH rules.
Most if not all districts ahve some sort of baord or representation to the district but their authority is limited to what is granted to them by the district director.
