Is Breck the best team in the state?

moose27 · Post by **moose27** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:29 pm

Let me know the next time a HS team plays another 10 times in the course of the season. You only need to beat a team once in playoffs and the state tournament to move on! Since all of you love comparing scores here ya go.
The only comparable games out of the final four in AA and A is Mahtomedi and Hill. I attended one of those games and i believe Hill won with a open netter 5-3 and shots were horse a piece!! A bounce hear or there and the score easily could have went the other way. I believe they played earlier to a one goal game as well. Breck played Mahtomedi twice and won both probably by larger scores than Hill. So does that mean Breck is better than Hill?

mulefarm · Post by **mulefarm** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:44 pm

moose27 wrote:Let me know the next time a HS team plays another 10 times in the course of the season. You only need to beat a team once in playoffs and the state tournament to move on! Since all of you love comparing scores here ya go.
The only comparable games out of the final four in AA and A is Mahtomedi and Hill. I attended one of those games and i believe Hill won with a open netter 5-3 and shots were horse a piece!! A bounce hear or there and the score easily could have went the other way. I believe they played earlier to a one goal game as well. Breck played Mahtomedi twice and won both probably by larger scores than Hill. So does that mean Breck is better than Hill?

Why didn't Breck schedule Hill-Murray so we could find out?

Goldy Gopher · Post by **Goldy Gopher** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:31 pm

mulefarm wrote:
moose27 wrote:Let me know the next time a HS team plays another 10 times in the course of the season. You only need to beat a team once in playoffs and the state tournament to move on! Since all of you love comparing scores here ya go.
The only comparable games out of the final four in AA and A is Mahtomedi and Hill. I attended one of those games and i believe Hill won with a open netter 5-3 and shots were horse a piece!! A bounce hear or there and the score easily could have went the other way. I believe they played earlier to a one goal game as well. Breck played Mahtomedi twice and won both probably by larger scores than Hill. So does that mean Breck is better than Hill?
Why didn't Breck schedule Hill-Murray so we could find out?

How do you know they didn't try?

Pinky · Post by **Pinky** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:31 pm

If you look at their schedule online.....please point out to me a top AA team they played ??? Shattuck does not count in this scenario

hmmm very interesting. Sorta weird since I know for a fact coaches in single A can schedule games agaisnt AA teams.

Are they the best team in state, is that a joke ? Thy will never play a season schedule like Edina, Eden Prairie, Tonka or Hill does.

Further more, if they did indeed move up next year....mise well call it a "points" night against breck with all the seniors they have leaving.

They do and still will get great players. But great players, as we know, doesn't make you have the best team in the state.

Goldy Gopher · Post by **Goldy Gopher** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:35 pm

Pinky wrote:If you look at their schedule online.....please point out to me a top AA team they played ??? Shattuck does not count in this scenario

hmmm very interesting. Sorta weird since I know for a fact coaches in single A can schedule games agaisnt AA teams.

Are they the best team in state, is that a joke ? Thy will never play a season schedule like Edina, Eden Prairie, Tonka or Hill does.

Further more, if they did indeed move up next year....mise well call it a "points" night against breck with all the seniors they have leaving.

They do and still will get great players. But great players, as we know, doesn't you have the best team in the state.

Based on the way everyone on here talks why would any AA teams want to schedule any A teams?

If the AA team wins, *yawn* they should have won. After all they were playing a lowly A team.

If the AA team loses, the team probably won't win another game after such a horrible loss to a lowly A team.

skiumah · Post by **skiumah** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:48 pm

moose27 wrote: Thanks for pointing out the obvious!! The depth in AA is obviously deeper than A. However, I will say it again that the final four in A were as every bit as good as the final four in AA. Hermantown, Breck, Warroad, and Mahtomedi can compete and beat anyone in the state on any given night. If you don't think this is true you obviously didn't watch any of the A tournament this year!!

I agree that these teams could win on any given night. However, I don't think they could win on consecutive nights.

I grew up in the 80s and enjoyed the memories of the state tournament. But I also enjoy having two classes today.

Breck is a good team. IMO, I don't think they could rip off 6 wins in 2AA or 6AA and be AA state champions. It takes more than 1.5 lines and a good goalie. Edina provided that this year.

bulldog14411 · Post by **bulldog14411** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:13 pm

Copy BSM and move to AA that's where, IMO, all private schools should be playing and if they want to argue they're the top team they should be playing in the tournament with the top teams. Evey year this question is asked and every year I'll return the same response. NO they didn't play AA, so they're not the best team. AA teams (no matter how bad they are) don't have a chance to move to A but the opposite is possible so if you want to be considered a top team move on up and play with the big boys. Especially if you're a private school and can bring in talent from an area larger than a restricted attendance area.

BBB · Post by **BBB** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:14 pm

How do you know they didn't try?

If they do try to schedule good AA teams or better competition in their area their not trying very hard.
Benilde, Holy Angels, and even Blake squeezed some decent opponents in their non-conf schedule.
You got me on the STA/Hill comparison. I totally forgot about the anomaly in STA's section (2 good teams). Everyone knows other than the STA/Mahtomedi winner, you knew the final 4 in class A and those were the only games in doubt as far as class A. Basically if you had a good team, you were in the final 4 and you would have to beat one decent team and one good team and you're state champs. Easy as that.

Goldy Gopher · Post by **Goldy Gopher** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:19 pm

BBB wrote:
How do you know they didn't try?
If they do try to schedule good AA teams or better competition in their area their not trying very hard.
Benilde, Holy Angels, and even Blake squeezed some decent opponents in their non-conf schedule.
You got me on the STA/Hill comparison. I totally forgot about the anomaly in STA's section (2 good teams). Everyone knows other than the STA/Mahtomedi winner, you knew the final 4 in class A and those were the only games in doubt as far as class A. Basically if you had a good team, you were in the final 4 and you would have to beat one decent team and one good team and you're state champs. Easy as that.

I must have missed TRF in the final four.

BBB · Post by **BBB** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:39 pm

The same TRF that tied East Grand Forks a month ago, lost to crookston, and lost to H-Town (a good class A team) 7-0 at TR? Sorry. They don't deserve to be in St. Paul or in the final 4 and I wouldn't consider them that 'good.'

Goldy Gopher · Post by **Goldy Gopher** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:47 pm

BBB wrote:The same TRF that tied East Grand Forks a month ago, lost to crookston, and lost to H-Town (a good class A team) 7-0 at TR? Sorry. They don't deserve to be in St. Paul or in the final 4 and I wouldn't consider them that 'good.'

Why don't you talk about their wins over Totino-Grace, Blake and Denfeld? Or their one goal losses to teams like Roseau and Warroad?

Not every team can go 26-2 every year. Most teams have some bumps in the road but just because they had a couple of off nights that doesn't make them not a good team.

Lucia4President · Post by **Lucia4President** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:52 pm

Goldy Gopher wrote:
BBB wrote:The same TRF that tied East Grand Forks a month ago, lost to crookston, and lost to H-Town (a good class A team) 7-0 at TR? Sorry. They don't deserve to be in St. Paul or in the final 4 and I wouldn't consider them that 'good.'
Why don't you talk about their wins over Totino-Grace, Blake and Denfeld? Or their one goal losses to teams like Roseau and Warroad?

Not every team can go 26-2 every year. Most teams have some bumps in the road but just because they had a couple of off nights that doesn't make them not a good team.

VIRUS

BBB · Post by **BBB** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:04 pm

Why don't you talk about their wins over Totino-Grace, Blake and Denfeld?

Because those teams combined for 32 losses this year and didn't play 30 good teams.
I'm done. Breck is #1. no question.
VIRUS

Pinky · Post by **Pinky** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:41 pm

BBB wrote:
Why don't you talk about their wins over Totino-Grace, Blake and Denfeld?

Because those teams combined for 32 losses this year and didn't play 30 good teams.
I'm done. Breck is #1. no question.
VIRUS

For class A

slapshot445 · Post by **slapshot445** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:26 pm

let's be honest, the minnesota high school hockey state champion this year was Edina, not Breck, Edina. Don't kid yourself AA is better than A, A is still good hockey, but that doesn't mean they are the best, and they're not. And if the attendance doesn't convince you look at the TV ratings. EDINA IS THE BEST TEAM IN STATE END OF DISCUSSION.

Goldy Gopher · Post by **Goldy Gopher** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:34 pm

slapshot445 wrote:let's be honest, the minnesota high school hockey state champion this year was Edina, not Breck, Edina. Don't kid yourself AA is better than A, A is still good hockey, but that doesn't mean they are the best, and they're not. And if the attendance doesn't convince you look at the TV ratings. EDINA IS THE BEST TEAM IN STATE END OF DISCUSSION.

Might attendance and TV ratings having something to do with the size of the schools and communities involved? Hmmm......

Rookie19 · Post by **Rookie19** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:56 pm

This is a joke right, there is no way breck would even compete day in day out with AA teams. The reason they are A is that they know they would not even make the AA tournament. A Class hockey is a joke one or two good teams, the rest would not make the top 40 in AA. So you beat #39 and # 38 in state, and you are in the championship of Class A. WOW!!!

STEP UP OR SHUT UP BRECK

MNSportsRube · Post by **MNSportsRube** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:27 pm

Rookie19 wrote:This is a joke right, there is no way breck would even compete day in day out with AA teams. The reason they are A is that they know they would not even make the AA tournament. A Class hockey is a joke one or two good teams, the rest would not make the top 40 in AA. So you beat #39 and # 38 in state, and you are in the championship of Class A. WOW!!!

STEP UP OR SHUT UP BRECK

STOP YELLING!! HAHA

Goldy23 · Post by **Goldy23** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:43 pm

Rookie19 wrote:This is a joke right, there is no way breck would even compete day in day out with AA teams. The reason they are A is that they know they would not even make the AA tournament. A Class hockey is a joke one or two good teams, the rest would not make the top 40 in AA. So you beat #39 and # 38 in state, and you are in the championship of Class A. WOW!!!

STEP UP OR SHUT UP BRECK

OK. Over the past 3 years the Breck team (the team has been virtually the same all three years) has Scrimmage Victories in 2008 over Minnetonka, Apple Valley, Moorhead twice and Burnsville. They lost to Hill. In 2009 they had 2 victories over Moorhead, Champlin Park and tied Benilde. They also beat Wayzata, Duluth East, Stillwater and Lakeville South in the Scwann's Cup the past two years. So I would say that their record against elite AA schools is pretty good. Throw in victories against an undeafeted Little Falls team and Warroad at State last year and Warroad and Hermantown this year and I think a logical person could conclude that they are a top team in the State these past couple of years.

As for are they the best? No way of really telling.

And for those of you that say they or any class A team can't be the top team because they don't play in AA is ridiculous. That stupid line of thought would mean that whoever you think is the best team in the State this year, be it Edina, Minnetoka, Hill or Shattuck, if they played in Class A they then would be disqualified.

The bottom line is the best team in the state is the best team regardless of what class they play in. My vote is that Shattuck is the best and Edina, Minnetonka, Hill and Breck are the next best in some order.

Oh, and Mule, They did try to schedule Hill this year but Hill either didn't have an opening or they chose not to. They also tried to get a game with Eden Prairie.

warriors41 · Post by **warriors41** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:58 pm

Goldy23 wrote:
Rookie19 wrote:This is a joke right, there is no way breck would even compete day in day out with AA teams. The reason they are A is that they know they would not even make the AA tournament. A Class hockey is a joke one or two good teams, the rest would not make the top 40 in AA. So you beat #39 and # 38 in state, and you are in the championship of Class A. WOW!!!

STEP UP OR SHUT UP BRECK
OK. Over the past 3 years the Breck team (the team has been virtually the same all three years) has Scrimmage Victories in 2008 over Minnetonka, Apple Valley, Moorhead twice and Burnsville. They lost to Hill. In 2009 they had 2 victories over Moorhead, Champlin Park and tied Benilde. They also beat Wayzata, Duluth East, Stillwater and Lakeville South in the Scwann's Cup the past two years. So I would say that their record against elite AA schools is pretty good. Throw in victories against an undeafeted Little Falls team and Warroad at State last year and Warroad and Hermantown this year and I think a logical person could conclude that they are a top team in the State these past couple of years.

As for are they the best? No way of really telling.

And for those of you that say they or any class A team can't be the top team because they don't play in AA is ridiculous. That stupid line of thought would mean that whoever you think is the best team in the State this year, be it Edina, Minnetoka, Hill or Shattuck, if they played in Class A they then would be disqualified.

The bottom line is the best team in the state is the best team regardless of what class they play in. My vote is that Shattuck is the best and Edina, Minnetonka, Hill and Breck are the next best in some order.

Oh, and Mule, They did try to schedule Hill this year but Hill either didn't have an opening or they chose not to. They also tried to get a game with Eden Prairie.

One thing I've been wondering is what if Edina's school enrollment was only 700 kids but had the same team. If they played class A would people still consider them the top team? What if they would have still beat Minnetonka in the regular season? Do you think they would bother opting up to AA? I for one think it's ridiculous to judge a team by the number of A's by their tourny instead of their product on the ice.

Let me throw out another hypothetical scenario. Let's say in one year both Roseau and Warroad won their respective state tournaments. Even if during the regular season Warroad would beat Roseau both times they played people would still say Roseau is the best team in state even though they got beat by the top A team simply because of the tournament they play in. That makes no sense at all.

Finally, Breck had one hell of a team this year, but I don't think they were the best in the state. Call me crazy but I thought they played better last year although I'll admit I only get to see their state games.

BBB · Post by **BBB** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:16 am

I thought I was done but I forgot to add scrimmage wins to list of reasons. Along with the 4-1 loss to SSM (the most lopsided compared to SSM wins over Holy Angels and BSM) and the boothockey loss H-Town had to EP.

If they (Edina) played class A would people still consider them the top team?

Yes, they appeared to have more depth/skill in their 2-4th lines than any Class A games I watched. They played what was considered the toughest schedule in MN and ended up 23-6-2.
Edinas last 5 games were wins over Holy Angels, Jefferson, Roseau, AV, Tonka. Only one of those was a one goal game and the others were 2-3-4 goal margins.
They beat teams like BSM and elk river easily. Also beat EP, Blaine, Tonka, and shut out Grand Rapids, East, Blaine, and Burnsville (all in dec. and many by 3-4 goals).
Based on their regular season and the 5 games they put together in the playoffs most people would still consider them a top team even if they played A.

StayAtHomeD · Post by **StayAtHomeD** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:27 am

Rookie19 wrote:This is a joke right, there is no way breck would even compete day in day out with AA teams. The reason they are A is that they know they would not even make the AA tournament. A Class hockey is a joke one or two good teams, the rest would not make the top 40 in AA. So you beat #39 and # 38 in state, and you are in the championship of Class A. WOW!!!

STEP UP OR SHUT UP BRECK

It's always nice to get input from the clueless section.

Breck is loaded with kids that any AA team would love to have.

StayAtHomeD · Post by **StayAtHomeD** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:28 am

What's the enrollment at Shattuck? Maybe they should jump into the Class A tourney if their numbers are right?

Same logic for Breck right?

Pinky · Post by **Pinky** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:09 am

StayAtHomeD wrote:What's the enrollment at Shattuck? Maybe they should jump into the Class A tourney if their numbers are right?

Same logic for Breck right?

SSM - 435 students, their prep team has 2 kids from MN.

You wanna talk about logic ?????

Breck - recruits from MN

Shattuck - recruits from 50 states.

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:45 am

Why are we even discussing SSM? They aren't part of the MSHSL and don't have the option of the playing in the Tournament. They are a Tier 1 Prep team that is shooting for a National Title, not a State Title.

Who cares if they "only" beat Breck 4-1? Was that a tournament game? Doubtful, if it was, my guess is that SSM would've probably beat them by a few more than three goals. It's likely they go into "scrimmage" mode when playing teams like Breck and work on new things or give more of an oppotunity for their 3rd and 4th lines to see some ice time.