USA National Select teams 14,16,18

[SportsMa]

Thanks for the compliment, MNhockeyfan09. I think my perspective comes from life events in that I have learned things can change in a blink of an eye, having multiple kids with varied interests and at different age levels and learning not to sweat the little things altho that I even started this whole topic makes me think that I still do "sweat" some of the little things.

Sorry for pulling this thread way off track!

Hope the girls have a great time at Phase II of NDP and wish them all well!

[Hux]

I've never understood it. Why does a coach think that his sport is more important than any other activity, be it sports, school, church or family? Because if a coach didn't think his sport was the highest priority, there would be no threat or application of consequences.

There should be understanding on the coach's part that a player has other opportunities, interests and even obligations during a 3 or 4 month long season. Telling a teenager that this isn't allowed is wrong, IMO. That forces priorities upon a young person who should be allowed to explore different avenues, including sports. You can expect some level of commitment for any activity, but you shouldn't demand a student's exclusivity.

In answer to your first question, because as a coach you invest a lot of time and effort, and you expect an equal commitment from your players. Treating it any other way invites mayhem, and as a parent you would be the first to bitch when you see that the team is losing, is in disaray, and the girls are not getting along. Remember, this is high school, not youth sports.

Let's face it, unless they are extremely passionate about their sport, practice is usually not what most players want to do. So there has to be rules in place that specify the consequences of missing practice or games. In hockey this is especially true, as (from what I have seen) ice times can be all over the clock. Again, it comes back to understanding that you, as a player, can't juggle a slew of activities and expect that there aren't going to be conflicts and detrimental effects in some areas.(academics being the most likely)

And again, it comes back to parents needing to set the right tone from the outset. And by your comments, I get the feeling that you would have no problem with your kid blowing off practice to participate in some other school activity. An obligation is one thing, other interests is a whole other matter. Once again, the point is that you don't sign up for something you can't commit to.

Along with that there obviously has to be some leeway. If you have a player that is a multi sport athlete, and they have an opportunity to participate in an advanced level of competition, you send them on their way with best wishes. If a player is involved in some outside activity(student government), and again there is a chance to participate in some higher level (off to the capitol to visit the legislature) you wish them well. If the activity is personal they have to abide by the rules and consequences, if the activity is school related (and not an elective activity like a play) there are no consequences.

The key in all this is that as a coach, you can't take it personally, and you can't take it out on the kid. Too many coaches do take it personally, and punish players in subtle ways well beyond the legitimate punishment. If a kid misses a practice, and the punishment is you miss a period, a game or whatever, then they do their time and it ends there. You don't carry it further by taking them off their line, or reducing their playing time, or making them pick up pucks for a week. And the same goes for the player and parent. You do the "crime" you do the time. You don't bitch that it isn't fair, or that you are the star player and you shouldn't have to sit etc.

[ghshockeyfan]

The key in all this is that as a coach, you can't take it personally, and you can't take it out on the kid. Too many coaches do take it personally, and punish players in subtle ways well beyond the legitimate punishment. If a kid misses a practice, and the punishment is you miss a period, a game or whatever, then they do their time and it ends there. You don't carry it further by taking them off their line, or reducing their playing time, or making them pick up pucks for a week. And the same goes for the player and parent. You do the "crime" you do the time. You don't bitch that it isn't fair, or that you are the star player and you shouldn't have to sit etc.

This is very important. I've also seen it where parents assume you continue to punish their kid in subtle ways even when that is their perception vs. the reality. What I've seen though is when kids punish other kids for not following the rules. Meaning those "subtle" ways that the coach is supposedly punishing the kids is in actuality teammates that are not happy with their teammate.

I also know parents that intentionally create drama with coaches to claim to admin that a coach is taking out things between parent/coach on the player.

Newsflash: the best players play the most, but, if a PLAYER violates the rules they will sit a fair penalty & then we'll all move forward and learn from things...

[Media]

There is another issue that I see as being missed a bit here, I have no hard fact or numbers on this but I guess is just more of an observation. The amount of homework piled on kids now day seem excessive. Some of the same inflexability mentioned among coaches is easily observable in many educators. Many I suspect whom never participated in sports in my observation do not see the intrinsic values offered by being a member of a team,and particularily in the ladies cases the growth of self esteem it produces. Heavy weekend assignments, Heavy holiday assignments, have stressed many of our young people needlessly. I see some kids with so much home work it causes me to wonder what is going on in the class room during the day. So the player with practices and games and homework that is what makes up their winter months, no wonder burnout is so often talked about. I agree that the amount of involvment needs to be managed but I also see our educators as taking a significant amount of time from ourstudents OFF hours. If a student athlelete gets more than a couple of hours per week down time I think its an exception now days . Its too bad for our kids , they deserve better.

[SEhockeyDAD]

...because as a coach you invest a lot of time and effort, and you expect an equal commitment from your players. Treating it any other way invites mayhem, and as a parent you would be the first to bitch when you see that the team is losing, is in disaray, and the girls are not getting along. Remember, this is high school, not youth sports..

We may agree to disagree on some points. My point was that a coach might expect too much in the way of commitment. While there is a difference between HS and youth sports, there is very little difference between a 13 year-old and a 14 year-old. I wouldn't exact 100% commitment from a girl based on this age difference. Also, mayhem can occur despite commitment from every girl. It might even be avoided by easing up on the demand for their time and attention to the sport. In fact, the story I heard of Jack Gravel's season with the North Metro Stars is that he gave the girls a week off at Christmas and cut off or greatly reduced dry-land training at that time also. Seemed to have worked well for them.

And again, it comes back to parents needing to set the right tone from the outset. And by your comments, I get the feeling that you would have no problem with your kid blowing off practice to participate in some other school activity. An obligation is one thing, other interests is a whole other matter. Once again, the point is that you don't sign up for something you can't commit to.

Level of commitment is at issue. No, I wouldn't allow my daughter to "blow off practice" for any reason. I would, however, allow her to rarely miss one because of an activity or event that would otherwise mean missing something very important to her. We instill the importance of commitment upon our children, and make them aware of it before signing them up for something like a sports activity.

Like almost all athletes and parents, we go to great lengths to ensure that our children are at all games and practices if its at all possible. There is a huge level of commitment there. I don't believe that its too much to ask a coach to understand that an athlete can miss 1 or 2 practices out of 50 for another important interest, and still be committed to that team.

[SEhockeyDAD]

Funny how these things turn to new subjects...

I was thinking the same thing. I'm looking forward to hearing some accounts of the games this weekend.

[xwildfan]

It seems like the common theme in this thread is that the significance / importance of all youth / HS activities has been ratcheted up to ridiculous levels. My kids have been involved in sports, music, drama, and extra-curricular academic activities. You sit by the parents during a hockey game and they are talking about D1 scholarships; you talk with parents after a music competition / concert and the parents talk about their violinist child prodigy playing in some philharmonic orchestra; you attend a National Honor Society banquet and the talk turns to Peabody Awards. It is crazy how parents attatch such significance to this stuff. Every once in a while I will suggest that they, the parents turned out ok, and they never played college hockey or were in high level orchestras, etc. This is usually met with a stare or response that essentially says, "you just don't get it." I probably don't.

And the teachers and coaches are no better. Coaches treat their sport with such seriousness and some play ridiculous "mind-games" with their players. Teachers, as mentioned in a previous post pile on excessive amounts of homework and projects.

I am not quite sure how this all came about. Every poster on this forum over forty or so had a totally different experience as a kid. I personally don't remember my parents ever saying much of anything after a game; and they certainly did not attend every game.

Just a few observations on a snowy day, waiting for the Wild game.

[rwb1351]

And the teachers and coaches are no better. Coaches treat their sport with such seriousness and some play ridiculous "mind-games" with their players. Teachers, as mentioned in a previous post pile on excessive amounts of homework and projects.

I don't wholly disagree with you here, but as far as teachers go, is it really their job to ensure that little Jenny has enough free-time? As stated many times in this thread as well as many others, these girls are student-athletes. Students first. Their job first and foremost is to do well in school. Teachers shouldn't be expected to plan around that weeks hockey game. Thats unreasonable.

Now as a student-athlete, I have addressed teachers one-on-one and worked out a plan when conflicts are critical, but if a teacher was unwilling i didn't protest. Yes, i was dedicated to my hockey team, but part of that dedication was getting my school work done and staying on track at school.

Many parents and students lose track of this mindset. We all have to remember these are high school students who enjoy the game of hockey, not AAA Hockey players that hit the books 9 months out of the year.

[Twinnesota]

It seems like the common theme in this thread is that the significance / importance of all youth / HS activities has been ratcheted up to ridiculous levels. My kids have been involved in sports, music, drama, and extra-curricular academic activities. You sit by the parents during a hockey game and they are talking about D1 scholarships; you talk with parents after a music competition / concert and the parents talk about their violinist child prodigy playing in some philharmonic orchestra; you attend a National Honor Society banquet and the talk turns to Peabody Awards. It is crazy how parents attatch such significance to this stuff. Every once in a while I will suggest that they, the parents turned out ok, and they never played college hockey or were in high level orchestras, etc. This is usually met with a stare or response that essentially says, "you just don't get it." I probably don't.

And the teachers and coaches are no better. Coaches treat their sport with such seriousness and some play ridiculous "mind-games" with their players. Teachers, as mentioned in a previous post pile on excessive amounts of homework and projects.

I am not quite sure how this all came about. Every poster on this forum over forty or so had a totally different experience as a kid. I personally don't remember my parents ever saying much of anything after a game; and they certainly did not attend every game.

Just a few observations on a snowy day, waiting for the Wild game.

You have a very healthy attitude...if you truly practice what you preach !!
Great post !!
T

[boblee]

Just want to say good luck to Molly Arola in Phase II.

[Bensonmum]

xwildfan, you've nailed it again. The only thing I can add is that the 'inflated importance' phenomenon starts at a very young age now. My daughter is super-competitive and gets sucked into this mind-set by other players, who get sucked into it by the parents you're talking about. I had to have the 'put the hockey experience into perspective' talk with her for the first time this spring, and I get the feeling it won't be the last. I can't imagine how horrible it would be for her if I got sucked into it also and reinforced that mind-set with her instead of reigning it in. I guess then we'd both lose all sense of reality. Oh, by the way, she's 10 years old.

[Hux]

A very good point Ben' and one that is lost on many parents. On the plus side, it is nice when the kids are the ones driving the bus, and their competitiveness and passion for the game push them forward, rather than parents.

[ghshockeyfan]

Best of luck to all the NDP Phase 2 participants this weekend!

[boblee]

Anyone watch any ice times last night?

[GopherFanARM]

Anyone watch any ice times last night?

I attended both the Friday night and Saturday morning sessions. I'd never seen these evaluations before, and I know less about the HS players and hockey in general than most of the people on this board. Mostly I watch D-I hockey, but I was very impressed by everything that I saw.

I'm not sure how much the teams are able to practice before these games -- I assume, not much. However, they played together very well for the most part. The hockey IQs on display looked to be pretty high. The communication was good, with players talking to each other on the ice. And the overall depth was impressive. I liked the competition -- impressions of who was the "best" team in a bracket could change dramatically from one game/day to the next. I would think that you could assemble a team from those who are not picked, send them to Lake Placid, and they would be competitive. I'd say "job well done" to both the players and their coaches.

Some comments on individual performances. I'd heard a lot about players like Alyssa Grogan and Gina McDonald, but had never seen them play -- they did not disappoint. Lauren Zrust was somebody that I'd never heard of and wasn't watching in particular, but she just grabbed my attention; definitely a player to watch. It was fun to watch the two Erickson's play on a line together and see what they can do when paired with a teammate of the same caliber. Watching their North team play the SW team with Smith, Feste, et al was like watching an NHL All Star game -- tough to be a goalie. There are a few stars, particularly in the 15s, who proved that they can score in an event like this, but it would be nice if they showed a little more interest in defending their own net as well. I believe that will come with experience. There were also a few players who impressed me when I watched them on their HS teams who seemed largely invisible amid so much talent in this event.

There were a lot of college coaches in attendance, from as far away as UConn and Harvard. A very nice event, and the organizers and participants should be proud.

[boblee]

Thanks for the report! If anyone else has one, don't be afraid to post.

[MNHockeyFan]

I was able to see 3 of the 1991 games. The North team did themselves proud by going 4-0 and did it mostly by playing more as a team than the other teams. It was almost like they did have a chance to practice together beforehand (and to the best of my knowledge they did not) whereas the other teams played more as individuals, except in spurts. When you get to this level, it is only the truly gifted player that can stand out and more or less dominate a game by themselves, and the fact that none did in the games I saw is a testament to the overall quality and balance of all of the players who participated. I'm sure you don't have to go back too many years when you could see just a handful of players that could take control the game and do almost all of the scoring.

I would also add that in the '91's the North's goaltending was very solid, and their 'tenders won some games that were otherwise pretty even in terms of territorial play and scoring opportunities.

[ghshockeyfan]

In that I "coached" the 91 East, I can't say too much, but I was impressed with the overall depth of the 91 and 92 single birth year age classifications. I didn't get to see too much of the other ages as I was usually assigned to a game of my own, but as usual we saw some great hockey this weekend. Each year the NDP gets stronger and stronger and this is a great thing for girls hockey. It sounds like the 89/90 East & SW had some amazing teams, but once you get to this level, really all the participants and teams are quite awesome. If we had this level of elite off-season hockey I would be quite pleased, but not all these girls (especially those from outstate) are playing in our AAA stuff unfortunately.

[SportsMa]

Primarily watched the 92's but got glimpses of the older girls' games, too. It was fun to watch the 92's and then walked over and watched some of the older girls and each age level the game went up a notch.

If this is just a sample of the girls' talent in the state, then the future is bright for MN girls' hockey!

Congratulations to the participants!

If you got sick of hockey you could go and watch a figure skating team competition, too. Those teams had the stands absolutely packed the one time I did head over to get a preztel. Can't say I am a fan at all but their fan base certainly was out in force.

[Hux]

Of interest: The 90, 91 and 92 players going to NDCs will be eligible for the U18 National team that will compete against a Canadian squad in Canada in late August, and then in the World Championships next January and Febuary (location to be determined but I wouldn't be surprised if it were in Canada as well). The National team will be picked from NDC camp attendees, and will be part of the Women's Festival with the U22 team in Lake Placid in early August.

[ghshockeyfan]

Of interest: The 90, 91 and 92 players going to NDCs will be eligible for the U18 National team that will compete against a Canadian squad in Canada in late August, and then in the World Championships next January and Febuary (location to be determined but I wouldn't be surprised if it were in Canada as well). The National team will be picked from NDC camp attendees, and will be part of the Women's Festival with the U22 team in Lake Placid in early August.

I think this fact helps us put the whole process in the proper perspective. This is truly an identification process. Some think it's something more or less than this, or different. But, it isn't.

[ghshockeyfan]

If you got sick of hockey you could go and watch a figure skating team competition, too. Those teams had the stands absolutely packed the one time I did head over to get a preztel. Can't say I am a fan at all but their fan base certainly was out in force.

I was just happy to find a place to park. That figure skating stuff was crazy... And I thought we were crazy about hockey!!!

[HockeyFan55]

Watched three of the four sessions. I was very impressed with the talent pool. It will certainly be difficult for the evaluators to make their picks, as I'm sure Minnesota would like to send more than their allotted number.

Congratulations to those that make Phase III. For those that don't, you did yourselves proud!

Also kudos to the staff. The D1 coaches that came from out East got a good chance to see ALL of the talent.

[nothernewguy]

Of interest: The 90, 91 and 92 players going to NDCs will be eligible for the U18 National team that will compete against a Canadian squad in Canada in late August, and then in the World Championships next January and Febuary (location to be determined but I wouldn't be surprised if it were in Canada as well). The National team will be picked from NDC camp attendees, and will be part of the Women's Festival with the U22 team in Lake Placid in early August.

Although it would be a high honor to be picked for that U18 team, I wonder how a 90-91-92 girl would make that choice to be gone in Jan and Feb when her high school team is in season. Especially if it is during sections? Not that there would be too many Minnesota gals on the national team, but even if it is just one girl out of mn, that would be one very elite player and her coach/team would surely miss her.

[nothernewguy]

So when are the Phase 3 rosters released?