Good point AP.
Well, CDH is out in Forest Lake tonight to take on the always pesky Lakers.
Geez should I go to the game or stay home and watch the Vikings? As if.
Hilll Murray takes on the Packers. You can take the boy out of So St Paul but you cant take the So St Paul out of the boy. The stockyard smell is gone but the hockey team looks a little more competitive. Still a lot of good Catholics hangin at the Cro and VFW.
Holy Angels never plays.
BSM lost to TG this week but should rebound vs the more public Irondale.
Lets go Catholics. Get out and support the teams and contribute your dollars.
We need it to give all that under the table money to the recruits.
Wait Until Lent
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
HA HA!I don't think anybody has a problem with that. The problem comes in when 200+ kids are turned away from the same school but a kid who just happens to be great hockey player comes in and gains amission from Osseo High School before his senior year. Or worse, plays football at Northfield in the fall and then is playing hockey at a private school in the winter. That's a problem whether you want to acknowledge it or not.packerboy wrote:
If child goes to Catholic school in St Paul or suburb thru 8th grade and then goes to CDH and wins a state championship, was he disloyal?
The real problem may be that all the Catholic schools get lumped in and interchanged with Holy Angels and what goes on there. Cretin, for example, has been far more successful in baseball and football but are not looked at in those sports like Holy Angels is in hockey. Every sport it seems has its problems, Kenndy girls basketball, Hopkins boys basketball, Apple Valley wrestling, Minnetonka football. It's not just a hockey problem, and hockey may be a minor offender, but the transfer rules need to be set up for all and with equality.
I agree with you goldy that non public schools are not all a like.
I cant prove it and I dont have any names and wouldnt mention them if I did BUT I have heard from reliable sources that CDH turned away about 6 hockey transfer requests after they won last year.
You dont hear about that but it is not unusual.
But you give examples and then say " thats a problem" and you imply that anyone who doesnt agree is just not thinking right.
You dont articulate why it is a problem.
xk1 a few posts back asked for that. Can you comply?
I cant prove it and I dont have any names and wouldnt mention them if I did BUT I have heard from reliable sources that CDH turned away about 6 hockey transfer requests after they won last year.
You dont hear about that but it is not unusual.
But you give examples and then say " thats a problem" and you imply that anyone who doesnt agree is just not thinking right.
You dont articulate why it is a problem.
xk1 a few posts back asked for that. Can you comply?
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Dickie Dunn
- Posts: 252
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- Location: A little bit south of Saskatoon.
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Ankles Pierre, Jr.
- Posts: 921
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:07 pm
"Problems"?
Goldy, you just listed some of the best sports programs/teams in the State. Growing mediocrity is more of a problem. Emphasis should be on promoting more of these successful programs, not trying to break them down.
AP
Now you have made me do research.
I have to pray to God and our Saviour for forgiveness of the anger you have created in me.
The win streak was broke in 1966, that was how many years ago, wait give me time, let my public school, pagan brain get in gear to figure that out.
Now you have made me do research.
I have to pray to God and our Saviour for forgiveness of the anger you have created in me.
The win streak was broke in 1966, that was how many years ago, wait give me time, let my public school, pagan brain get in gear to figure that out.
Last edited by elliott70 on Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
PB, Is it fair to the 200 kids who did go to Catholic grade school and can't get into a Catholic High School while letting a hockey player who did not go Catholic grade school in solely because he can play? If there's open desks that's one thing, but if there's not....The OE rule is supposed to be about eduacational opportunity, by the time you're a senior I think the window is closed, it's too late, especially mid year. You take your SAT's and apply for college in the fall, long before transferring schools will show any benefit. The way around it would be to use the Post Secondary Option.
Knowlze, you're wrong and you know it. Mediocraty it ain't. I'll take wrestling, this state is producing some of the best amateur wrestlers in the nation, the talent and depth is getting better every year. Aplle Valey in recent years took one of the best wrestlers in the state in Marcus LeVasseur from Edison, it wasn't like Marcus wasn't being treated well or coached well at Edison as he already had at least 2 state titles, and brought him in to make their team better. They also brought in a kid from Iowa to live with a family and he has at least 1 state title. Neither of these kids pay taxes in the district their playing in, both were recruited in one form or another and in LeVasseurs case dealt a huge blow to Edison in terms of prestige of which Edison had nothing to do with. They are well coached and did participate in the best tournaments, LaVasseur was being recruited by Minnesota while he was at Edison, he didn't leave for educational reasons and said as much.
Siphoning the top talent into a few programs makes the rest mediocre and stiffles interest in those communities, not the way you suggest. If Winona or Edison continue to hemorrhage kids to other programs they continue to decline because there's nothing fueling interest in the sports. Places like Hastings and Owatonna work hard to develop their kids, but if Apple Valley is allowed to go out and bring in kids from the 4 corners of the earth to sustain theirs is that fair?
Knowlze, you're wrong and you know it. Mediocraty it ain't. I'll take wrestling, this state is producing some of the best amateur wrestlers in the nation, the talent and depth is getting better every year. Aplle Valey in recent years took one of the best wrestlers in the state in Marcus LeVasseur from Edison, it wasn't like Marcus wasn't being treated well or coached well at Edison as he already had at least 2 state titles, and brought him in to make their team better. They also brought in a kid from Iowa to live with a family and he has at least 1 state title. Neither of these kids pay taxes in the district their playing in, both were recruited in one form or another and in LeVasseurs case dealt a huge blow to Edison in terms of prestige of which Edison had nothing to do with. They are well coached and did participate in the best tournaments, LaVasseur was being recruited by Minnesota while he was at Edison, he didn't leave for educational reasons and said as much.
Siphoning the top talent into a few programs makes the rest mediocre and stiffles interest in those communities, not the way you suggest. If Winona or Edison continue to hemorrhage kids to other programs they continue to decline because there's nothing fueling interest in the sports. Places like Hastings and Owatonna work hard to develop their kids, but if Apple Valley is allowed to go out and bring in kids from the 4 corners of the earth to sustain theirs is that fair?
Also, you are mistaken in that I support the potentially new OE rules.
(I am not sure that I support any OE rules because I am not sure why one school district is not given the support to bring it up to the standards of a second school district. Another debate entirely from this one.)
I favor treating all involved equally.
I favor treatment of the student equally. If you OE then you should be entitled to everytning the new school provides (of course, as long as you accept the responsibilites with it).
What is bothersome for most of us 218ers (another twist to the saga) is that OE and private schools are an expensive if not impossible option for those up north(west). Ask Renegade Dickie. Not a catholic himself, but would like to send his children to a parochial school, but it is not possible living in the isolation of Warroad. So, again, the big city cidiots get an advantage over the youth belonging to the poor us out-staters. (nothing that I would ever trade for, but still something to use in the political battles that rage north vs. metro)
And then there is the Roman Catholic Religion that I have an issue. Mind you not Catholics (priests and their flocks).... but that argument is for a whole different place...
But now for the thing that generates my anger...
Any association of myself with a person that represents some nasty things really burns me..
But enough said, and the apology you feel within your heart is enough for me.
Now back to the thread.....
(I am not sure that I support any OE rules because I am not sure why one school district is not given the support to bring it up to the standards of a second school district. Another debate entirely from this one.)
I favor treating all involved equally.
I favor treatment of the student equally. If you OE then you should be entitled to everytning the new school provides (of course, as long as you accept the responsibilites with it).
What is bothersome for most of us 218ers (another twist to the saga) is that OE and private schools are an expensive if not impossible option for those up north(west). Ask Renegade Dickie. Not a catholic himself, but would like to send his children to a parochial school, but it is not possible living in the isolation of Warroad. So, again, the big city cidiots get an advantage over the youth belonging to the poor us out-staters. (nothing that I would ever trade for, but still something to use in the political battles that rage north vs. metro)
And then there is the Roman Catholic Religion that I have an issue. Mind you not Catholics (priests and their flocks).... but that argument is for a whole different place...
But now for the thing that generates my anger...
Any association of myself with a person that represents some nasty things really burns me..
But enough said, and the apology you feel within your heart is enough for me.
Now back to the thread.....
Would any of those situations be more fair if they moved? As far as taxes go we have a thing called fiscal desparity in the area where money get redistributed from one town to the next so really we are all paying taxes, at least school-wise for every city in the Metro, the only difference is your local school board has something to say about distributing them.
xk1
Do you know how the fiscal desparity really works or do you think by
using a white washing statement that makes everything look better somewhat, that enough folks will jump on that band wagon and think there is no problem there because they certainly are not going to do the research to find out for themselves?
Do you know how the fiscal desparity really works or do you think by
using a white washing statement that makes everything look better somewhat, that enough folks will jump on that band wagon and think there is no problem there because they certainly are not going to do the research to find out for themselves?
xk1, on a per pupil funding rate that's true, but that's not the whole story.
Teachers aren't paid at the same rate across the state, you're probably going to get more money teaching in Eden Prairie then you will at Harding or Red Lake Falls, so the better more experianced teachers will also end up where the higher pay is. The caveat to this is parochial teaches are the lowest paid, but they also have to deal with less disruptions and can concentrate on teaching more making it a desirable job.
Secondly compare the facilities at Minnetonka, from science to athletic with Washburn, their not even in the same ballpark. The Pagel Center and Parade, the artificial turf-domed football facility to the one the Minneapolis public schools use.
The science labs, computer centers, auditoriums, athletic facilities are all levy/bond related, not supported by the state tax payers in general like per pupil funding.
Teachers aren't paid at the same rate across the state, you're probably going to get more money teaching in Eden Prairie then you will at Harding or Red Lake Falls, so the better more experianced teachers will also end up where the higher pay is. The caveat to this is parochial teaches are the lowest paid, but they also have to deal with less disruptions and can concentrate on teaching more making it a desirable job.
Secondly compare the facilities at Minnetonka, from science to athletic with Washburn, their not even in the same ballpark. The Pagel Center and Parade, the artificial turf-domed football facility to the one the Minneapolis public schools use.
The science labs, computer centers, auditoriums, athletic facilities are all levy/bond related, not supported by the state tax payers in general like per pupil funding.
Apple Valley Wrestling
Apple Valley Wrestling has been very good for last 15 to 20 years. During this time they have had kids come from all over the midwest. Rather than using school district boundaries as the fence, there is some sense in at least making the state boundary the fence. Although it is not the most desireable situation, I am sure the kids are not the only outstate people that receive benefits from our Minnesota tax dollars (and what the heck, youth sports isn't a bad cause, especially compared to many other causes our tax dollars support).
The real misunderstanding is that making rules solve nothing,....unless they are enforced. Just making a rule deters a few, but if players/students want to go to a particular school they will. If a few are detered and others aren't, is that "fair"?
True enforcment is a nighmare, and not worth the time and expense for the MSHSL for such an insignificant "problem". It must involve first finding the kid which requires a tattletail (a disgruntled player, coach, fan etc.). Then having a hearing to determine if the kid broke the rule (i.e prove it was for sports, not acedemics), then enforce the penalty. This isn't a crime.
"Fair" is allowing ALL that want to the ability to transfer, whites, blacks, boys, girls, public, or private,....ALL. That is "fair". Isn't "fairness", what everyone is concerned about?
The real misunderstanding is that making rules solve nothing,....unless they are enforced. Just making a rule deters a few, but if players/students want to go to a particular school they will. If a few are detered and others aren't, is that "fair"?
True enforcment is a nighmare, and not worth the time and expense for the MSHSL for such an insignificant "problem". It must involve first finding the kid which requires a tattletail (a disgruntled player, coach, fan etc.). Then having a hearing to determine if the kid broke the rule (i.e prove it was for sports, not acedemics), then enforce the penalty. This isn't a crime.
"Fair" is allowing ALL that want to the ability to transfer, whites, blacks, boys, girls, public, or private,....ALL. That is "fair". Isn't "fairness", what everyone is concerned about?
Geez, I have a lunch meeting and a year end management review and I have to come back to this.
Goldy, the 200 plus kids that get rejected are freshman apps. and they arent kids that went to Catholic grade school. In the years that follow, 10 -15 spots open up every year due to people moving or whatever.
So, your point there is weak at best. Just like all of the other phobics, you say things but have no basis for it. What, are you on a soap box for equitible private school admissions policies?
If Rocheseter cant cut it, it isnt the Catholics fault.
Why dont you answer xk1's question?
Goldy, the 200 plus kids that get rejected are freshman apps. and they arent kids that went to Catholic grade school. In the years that follow, 10 -15 spots open up every year due to people moving or whatever.
So, your point there is weak at best. Just like all of the other phobics, you say things but have no basis for it. What, are you on a soap box for equitible private school admissions policies?
If Rocheseter cant cut it, it isnt the Catholics fault.
Why dont you answer xk1's question?
Being in a big school doesn't get you more pay, Bloomington fires many teachers every year then rehires them to keep them from getting tenure.
Thanks for listing all the reasons someone might want to attend school in Minnetonka rather than stay in Mpls, however, they might own one of those cool homes by the Lakes and want to stay there. Perhaps they think their kid should even get to play sports as well as taking advantage of the cool science facilities. Maybe they should come up with a plan to do that, wait I think they did, what a great deal. But they would be traitors to their 330,00 neighbors that they played with at the local rink so we should put a stop to that, community pride might me injured.
Thanks for listing all the reasons someone might want to attend school in Minnetonka rather than stay in Mpls, however, they might own one of those cool homes by the Lakes and want to stay there. Perhaps they think their kid should even get to play sports as well as taking advantage of the cool science facilities. Maybe they should come up with a plan to do that, wait I think they did, what a great deal. But they would be traitors to their 330,00 neighbors that they played with at the local rink so we should put a stop to that, community pride might me injured.
xk1, thanks for your contribution but you are waisting your time.
We are dealing with a bunch of losers in the purest sense.
They just cant deal with the fact that their lack of success is due to their own inadaquecies.
" Oh no , it cant be because we try to substitute Kwanzaa for Christmas" they'll plead.
"It must be because they recruit" they will cry.
They have taken all religion out of schools but what have they replaced it with?
Talk to people who have left the Godless, ultra liberal , Kwanzaa crowd. They will tell you why. Its stuff that the phobics dont want to hear.
Well, they will hear about it here.
All the way until lent.
We are dealing with a bunch of losers in the purest sense.
They just cant deal with the fact that their lack of success is due to their own inadaquecies.
" Oh no , it cant be because we try to substitute Kwanzaa for Christmas" they'll plead.
"It must be because they recruit" they will cry.
They have taken all religion out of schools but what have they replaced it with?
Talk to people who have left the Godless, ultra liberal , Kwanzaa crowd. They will tell you why. Its stuff that the phobics dont want to hear.
Well, they will hear about it here.
All the way until lent.
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Ankles Pierre, Jr.
- Posts: 921
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:07 pm
Attacking Parity
Another history lesson from AP is in order:
1983 Hill-Murray became the only TRUE ONE-CLASS CHAMPION to win 28 straight.
Fast Forward ONE Year:
1984 The Pioneers were beat at the State Quarterfinals by a group of kids who had transferred to Johnson after getting cut from the Hill-Murray squad.
Those traitors would never have been able to play Varsity Hockey ANYWHERE under the MSHSLoser proposal, even though they were good enough to win at the State Tournament level!
MSHSLoser “Equality” = Bring Everyone Down
Cheer up, Packerboy, the U. S. of AP won't have you fight the terrorists all alone!
1983 Hill-Murray became the only TRUE ONE-CLASS CHAMPION to win 28 straight.
Fast Forward ONE Year:
1984 The Pioneers were beat at the State Quarterfinals by a group of kids who had transferred to Johnson after getting cut from the Hill-Murray squad.
Those traitors would never have been able to play Varsity Hockey ANYWHERE under the MSHSLoser proposal, even though they were good enough to win at the State Tournament level!
MSHSLoser “Equality” = Bring Everyone Down
Cheer up, Packerboy, the U. S. of AP won't have you fight the terrorists all alone!
PB
Interesting converation with my grnaddaughter's 3rd grade teacher this afternoon.
Apparently (based on some of the books he uses and his own comments), the publicers are teaching relgion (Christianity). They just cannot proscribe it over any other beliefs or non-beliefs.
And, as you say, to the the chagrin of some left-wingers (and I ain't talin' hockey).
Interesting converation with my grnaddaughter's 3rd grade teacher this afternoon.
Apparently (based on some of the books he uses and his own comments), the publicers are teaching relgion (Christianity). They just cannot proscribe it over any other beliefs or non-beliefs.
And, as you say, to the the chagrin of some left-wingers (and I ain't talin' hockey).