E70- Always commenting on anything to do with Buffalo...you would think you lived here. Here's some breaking news for you...Bemidji isn't the end of the earth... but you sure can see it from there...Buffalo is 25 Miles from 494 loop...why dont you mapquest how far the Lumberjacks would need to travel to get there?elliott70 wrote:It started as competition but was obviously travel.32HockeyFan wrote:I'm not supporting nor condoning Buffalo's request.
I'm just wondering why? Is it strickly to play better competition? To avoid traveling to Willmar, Hutch and LDC? Are they just ticked off at D5 and want out?
Now I think it is all 3.
Buffalo and D5
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
No , I dont have it in for the Bison, just dont want the FACTS misreprenseted.May I Ipoint out agian, that comments about fans in the stands are PARENTS , I have not heard any kids complaining that they made it to state tourney
As for the the past President , his name was Bruce Bekter, , the claim gets to be that Buffalo has wanted out for the last 15 years or so and through 3 DD, well you had a great chance there and no strings were pulled.
I believe that out there in Bison country that you are just giving the half of the story and not all the facts.
We do agree that redistricting is long overdue. Heck St Cloud and Sauk Rapids sit in D-10 whats up with that
As for the the past President , his name was Bruce Bekter, , the claim gets to be that Buffalo has wanted out for the last 15 years or so and through 3 DD, well you had a great chance there and no strings were pulled.
I believe that out there in Bison country that you are just giving the half of the story and not all the facts.
We do agree that redistricting is long overdue. Heck St Cloud and Sauk Rapids sit in D-10 whats up with that
HOFHOFam'r wrote:E70- Always commenting on anything to do with Buffalo...you would think you lived here. Here's some breaking news for you...Bemidji isn't the end of the earth... but you sure can see it from there...Buffalo is 25 Miles from 494 loop...why dont you mapquest how far the Lumberjacks would need to travel to get there?elliott70 wrote:It started as competition but was obviously travel.32HockeyFan wrote:I'm not supporting nor condoning Buffalo's request.
I'm just wondering why? Is it strickly to play better competition? To avoid traveling to Willmar, Hutch and LDC? Are they just ticked off at D5 and want out?
Now I think it is all 3.
I have alot to do with Buffalo I guess since I sit on a board that may decide where, how they play.
I speak with their HS coach on a regular basis.
I have nothing against Buffalo, but apparently you have something agianst me and Bemidji.
Unpuckeyone: Misrepresentation and simply stating your opinion are definately viewed light years a part by any court of law. For me, Over8ted is just expressing his POV and the POV of most of the Buffalo Association. I think pointing fingers or believing that Buffalo feels they play better hockey then anyone else is ridicules. From a different perspective many in d5 like very much the fact that teams in their Association get to play Buffalo twice a season. Many have circled these dates on their calender. Also, many in groups like Hutchinson, Willmar etc have developed animosity toward the Bison because of Buffalo's attempts to leave the district and the great things done within the group itself.puckeyone wrote:No , I dont have it in for the Bison, just dont want the FACTS misreprenseted.May I Ipoint out agian, that comments about fans in the stands are PARENTS , I have not heard any kids complaining that they made it to state tourney
As for the the past President , his name was Bruce Bekter, , the claim gets to be that Buffalo has wanted out for the last 15 years or so and through 3 DD, well you had a great chance there and no strings were pulled.
I believe that out there in Bison country that you are just giving the half of the story and not all the facts.
We do agree that redistricting is long overdue. Heck St Cloud and Sauk Rapids sit in D-10 whats up with that
Bottom line is that in the rhelm of things Buffalo is decent place for kids to play hockey and the Community and Association are outgrowing others within d5. Does it make any sense at all that Buffalo is forced to compete with Moorhead, Roseau and others on the High School level and expected to develop players to compete when the majority of their youth schedule is played against the smaller Hockey communities in d5.
Whew, didn't realize I speaking too such a powerful individual.elliott70 wrote:HOFHOFam'r wrote:E70- Always commenting on anything to do with Buffalo...you would think you lived here. Here's some breaking news for you...Bemidji isn't the end of the earth... but you sure can see it from there...Buffalo is 25 Miles from 494 loop...why dont you mapquest how far the Lumberjacks would need to travel to get there?elliott70 wrote: It started as competition but was obviously travel.
Now I think it is all 3.
I have alot to do with Buffalo I guess since I sit on a board that may decide where, how they play.
I speak with their HS coach on a regular basis.
I have nothing against Buffalo, but apparently you have something agianst me and Bemidji.
E70, I have nothing against you or Bemidji, and because you care enough about Hockey to take your time and share your opinions with the hockey community you should be commended. However, as you are probably aware.... many people in hockey are passionate.... and like in anything else there are people who will insist on taking control....While some will justify profiting from that control....others honestly feel they need this control to inflict needed change on their Association/organization etc. I hope you fall into the latter category.
In general terms it makes logical sense for Buffalo to want to improve their own lot and move from d5. That is our stance. Does it make sense for the rest ofthe Associations in d5 or does make sense from a big picture Minnesota Hockey perspective?...Well, that's what your board needs to decide. I think no matter how Minnesota Hockey slices the pie there will be Associations upset with their placements. Additionally, there have been rivalry's and traditions created within all Districts that would be difficult to separate and dealing with one Association like Buffalo is much easier then creating a Hornets nest by reorging all.
Obviously geography plays a huge role and Buffalo's placement on the map has hindered it's attempt/attempts to change districts. However, I think we all can agree that Buffalo is now an outer ring suberb of the Twin Cities and should be treated accordingly by Minnesota Hockey.
E70- Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your comments. However, I am inclined most times to disagree with your stance.
Okay, but I have not taken a stance on Buffalo for the future.HOFam'r wrote:Whew, didn't realize I speaking too such a powerful individual.elliott70 wrote:HOFHOFam'r wrote: E70- Always commenting on anything to do with Buffalo...you would think you lived here. Here's some breaking news for you...Bemidji isn't the end of the earth... but you sure can see it from there...Buffalo is 25 Miles from 494 loop...why dont you mapquest how far the Lumberjacks would need to travel to get there?
I have alot to do with Buffalo I guess since I sit on a board that may decide where, how they play.
I speak with their HS coach on a regular basis.
I have nothing against Buffalo, but apparently you have something agianst me and Bemidji.
E70, I have nothing against you or Bemidji, and because you care enough about Hockey to take your time and share your opinions with the hockey community you should be commended. However, as you are probably aware.... many people in hockey are passionate.... and like in anything else there are people who will insist on taking control....While some will justify profiting from that control....others honestly feel they need this control to inflict needed change on their Association/organization etc. I hope you fall into the latter category.
In general terms it makes logical sense for Buffalo to want to improve their own lot and move from d5. That is our stance. Does it make sense for the rest ofthe Associations in d5 or does make sense from a big picture Minnesota Hockey perspective?...Well, that's what your board needs to decide. I think no matter how Minnesota Hockey slices the pie there will be Associations upset with their placements. Additionally, there have been rivalry's and traditions created within all Districts that would be difficult to separate and dealing with one Association like Buffalo is much easier then creating a Hornets nest by reorging all.
Obviously geography plays a huge role and Buffalo's placement on the map has hindered it's attempt/attempts to change districts. However, I think we all can agree that Buffalo is now an outer ring suberb of the Twin Cities and should be treated accordingly by Minnesota Hockey.
E70- Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your comments. However, I am inclined most times to disagree with your stance.
But I am talking with a Buffalo rep later today to hear what it is they are looking for and the whys and why-nots.
Reorganizing (redistricting) is very difficult. But we need some sort of plan that helps geographically, administratively and competively. A plan that we apply, tweak, and use. Nothing should be cast in stone, but when we have Lakeville, Buffalo, a few more metro, suburbans, some in southern MN and aome in northern MN and at least one (maybe just a team) but one in D16 looking for something other than what they currently have, then we (MN Hockey) need to act and not just band-aid every request that comes our way.
And GO BUFFALO, my second favorite team in 8AA!
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TriedThat2
- Posts: 119
- Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:33 am
to HOFamer, since you bring up section 8 and you have to play the likes of Moorhead and Roseau, let me remind you that River Lakes and MAML are also in that section and they are also in D-5. which makes that claim go out the window
also never have ive claimed anything about the community, very nice, i just believe that some there have blinders on at times
also never have ive claimed anything about the community, very nice, i just believe that some there have blinders on at times
HOFam'r wrote: Does it make any sense at all that Buffalo is forced to compete with Moorhead, Roseau and others on the High School level and expected to develop players to compete when the majority of their youth schedule is played against the smaller Hockey communities in d5.
Roseau's district schedule, Moorhead's district schedule are against a lot of small schools.
Roseau plays Warroad (18 miles away), Lake of the Woods (45 miles away), Thief River Falls (70), Red Lake Falls (80), Hallock (55), East Grand Forks (125) Crookston (105), Bagley (105), and Bemidji (130). Small schools, perhaps better hockey programs then Buffalo plays (at least in hte past), but small programs... very seldom do any have more than 2 teams at a level and some only 1 team.
But the better programs travel to Moorhead, Duluth, St. Cloud, Grand Rapids, and the TC's to get more competitive games or tourneys. WE also get tough games on the west side of the Red River. Moorhead gets Brainerd, Little Falls, Detroit Lakes, Fergus, Alex, Wadena, Park Rapids, and a few more, but other than Brainerd all small schools.
Perhaps (and I do not know enough to go full bore) but rather than leaving D5, the district goes east leagaue and west league. Play everyone twice close by and once on the other side of the district. Buffalo could than add more western suburb games, tourneys or whatever to strengthen their schedule. Those that want to play twice can.
But travel could be cut - a long trip every other year.
TriedThat2 wrote:Mark,
Then, obviously, if we apply that reasoning, the Lakeville issue should be declined, as I'm quite positive it would be considered (without a plan in place) a "band-aid for every request that comes our way."
Perhaps, but I am reserving my vote until the final argument on
October 1.
In the mean time I have an opinion, but am not sharing it.
But am willing to listen to everyone else's opinion.
Again- Buffalo is an Outer Ring Suberb of the Twin Cities...River Lakes is not. Monticello, is an outer ring and quickly growing community.... for that matter so is STMA. With that said of the three.... Buffalo is by far and away in the best shape to be able to compete in d3 or 10.puckeyone wrote:to HOFamer, since you bring up section 8 and you have to play the likes of Moorhead and Roseau, let me remind you that River Lakes and MAML are also in that section and they are also in D-5. which makes that claim go out the window
also never have ive claimed anything about the community, very nice, i just believe that some there have blinders on at times
Monticello normally cannot field a Bantam B team and in years past STMA did not have an Bantam A-Team. These attributes are hardly attractive to other districts.
Buffalo now has the same thing most Suburban Associations do...facilty and numbers.
Unpuckeyone- If a court of law analized this case it could be argued and probably very favorably... that "The Rest" of d5 was being unfair and Buffalo is indeed the victim of their selfishness...
As far as blinders..it is Buffalo like it or not that adds a notch of credibility to d5 and has become the competitive target for most of the district.
Most Associations in d5 would hate to see Buffalo leave because of that.
Buffalo is the largest Association in a District full of smaller Associations, this means revenue, competitivness, and interest would decrease substancially if Buffalo left....but in the meantime let's make sure we make Buffalo stay and limit their progression as larger association...I am sure when the number of players in RL and Monti hit the same level as Buffalo....their patrons will begin to chirp as well...your probably one of them.
E70-elliott70 wrote:Okay, but I have not taken a stance on Buffalo for the future.HOFam'r wrote:Whew, didn't realize I speaking too such a powerful individual.elliott70 wrote: HOF
I have alot to do with Buffalo I guess since I sit on a board that may decide where, how they play.
I speak with their HS coach on a regular basis.
I have nothing against Buffalo, but apparently you have something agianst me and Bemidji.
E70, I have nothing against you or Bemidji, and because you care enough about Hockey to take your time and share your opinions with the hockey community you should be commended. However, as you are probably aware.... many people in hockey are passionate.... and like in anything else there are people who will insist on taking control....While some will justify profiting from that control....others honestly feel they need this control to inflict needed change on their Association/organization etc. I hope you fall into the latter category.
In general terms it makes logical sense for Buffalo to want to improve their own lot and move from d5. That is our stance. Does it make sense for the rest ofthe Associations in d5 or does make sense from a big picture Minnesota Hockey perspective?...Well, that's what your board needs to decide. I think no matter how Minnesota Hockey slices the pie there will be Associations upset with their placements. Additionally, there have been rivalry's and traditions created within all Districts that would be difficult to separate and dealing with one Association like Buffalo is much easier then creating a Hornets nest by reorging all.
Obviously geography plays a huge role and Buffalo's placement on the map has hindered it's attempt/attempts to change districts. However, I think we all can agree that Buffalo is now an outer ring suberb of the Twin Cities and should be treated accordingly by Minnesota Hockey.
E70- Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your comments. However, I am inclined most times to disagree with your stance.
But I am talking with a Buffalo rep later today to hear what it is they are looking for and the whys and why-nots.
Reorganizing (redistricting) is very difficult. But we need some sort of plan that helps geographically, administratively and competively. A plan that we apply, tweak, and use. Nothing should be cast in stone, but when we have Lakeville, Buffalo, a few more metro, suburbans, some in southern MN and aome in northern MN and at least one (maybe just a team) but one in D16 looking for something other than what they currently have, then we (MN Hockey) need to act and not just band-aid every request that comes our way.
And GO BUFFALO, my second favorite team in 8AA!
The only way in my opinion to truly create a competively balanced District would be:
Use Geographical Boundaries and Association Size to create 2 District classes within each Boundary. Simple...think they call it the High School League...of course youth hockeys boundaries could be very large or very small dependent on area but overall I think travel would be comparable to what it is today.
Example District:
AA
Buffalo
ElkRiver
Rogers
Maple Grove
St Cloud
Andover
A
BBL
Sauk Rapids
Sartell
River Lakes
Crow River
Litchfield
STMA
Monticello
Hutch
HOFam'r wrote: E70-
The only way in my opinion to truly create a competively balanced District would be:
Use Geographical Boundaries and Association Size to create 2 District classes within each Boundary. Simple...think they call it the High School League...of course youth hockeys boundaries could be very large or very small dependent on area but overall I think travel would be comparable to what it is today.
Example District:
AA
Buffalo
ElkRiver
Rogers
Maple Grove
St Cloud
Andover
A
BBL
Sauk Rapids
Sartell
River Lakes
Crow River
Litchfield
STMA
Monticello
Hutch
This idea was presented (or something quite similar) by a DD from the north (not me) a couple of years back. It has merit and is back on the table of the DD's discussion.
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Neutron 14
- Posts: 5339
- Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:48 pm
Hi elliott70,
My name is Neutron 14, and I'm a first time caller to your show. Has anyone mentioned moving Centennial from District 10 to District 2? Its a lot closer, then we wouldnt have to drive to Mora and St. Cloud. White Bear and Forest Lake are natural rivals also. I'll hang up now and listen for your answer.
Thanks.
My name is Neutron 14, and I'm a first time caller to your show. Has anyone mentioned moving Centennial from District 10 to District 2? Its a lot closer, then we wouldnt have to drive to Mora and St. Cloud. White Bear and Forest Lake are natural rivals also. I'll hang up now and listen for your answer.
Thanks.
to the board.-
Neutron 14
- Posts: 5339
- Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:48 pm
-
Can't Never Tried
- Posts: 4345
- Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:55 pm
Not Interested ! Next caller please!Neutron 14 wrote:Hi elliott70,
My name is Neutron 14, and I'm a first time caller to your show. Has anyone mentioned moving Centennial from District 10 to District 2? Its a lot closer, then we wouldnt have to drive to Mora and St. Cloud. White Bear and Forest Lake are natural rivals also. I'll hang up now and listen for your answer.
Thanks.
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Neutron 14
- Posts: 5339
- Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:48 pm
-
Can't Never Tried
- Posts: 4345
- Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:55 pm
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Neutron 14
- Posts: 5339
- Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:48 pm
-
Can't Never Tried
- Posts: 4345
- Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:55 pm
Honestly never knew that...just think it makes sense out of a confusing situation...However, no matter what path is chosen there are sure to be complaints.elliott70 wrote:HOFam'r wrote: E70-
The only way in my opinion to truly create a competively balanced District would be:
Use Geographical Boundaries and Association Size to create 2 District classes within each Boundary. Simple...think they call it the High School League...of course youth hockeys boundaries could be very large or very small dependent on area but overall I think travel would be comparable to what it is today.
Example District:
AA
Buffalo
ElkRiver
Rogers
Maple Grove
St Cloud
Andover
A
BBL
Sauk Rapids
Sartell
River Lakes
Crow River
Litchfield
STMA
Monticello
Hutch
This idea was presented (or something quite similar) by a DD from the north (not me) a couple of years back. It has merit and is back on the table of the DD's discussion.
Holfamer, ya its confusing becaues now your throwing out to play mostly D-10 teams while your Bison are wanting to move to D-3 . Question for you to ponder, if your district play16- 18 games and your teams play around 45-50 games a year seems to me that they are playing only around 30-40 % of there games against D-5, and I dont believe you have been blowing out D-5 compition either,, JUST THE FACTS