Good Luck to the Kids!

[Can't Never Tried]

I think they should be open.
I don't think an assoc. needs to protect kids from their parents.
I do think that parents need to keep their yaps shut during the process.
I also think youth parents need to relax and enjoy the game.
It's over before you know it...and most have little idea how high the top really is, and how little room there is up there, so enjoy todays game whatever team your on.

[muckandgrind]

I think they should be open.
I don't think an assoc. needs to protect kids from their parents.
I do think that parents need to keep their yaps shut during the process.
I also think youth parents need to relax and enjoy the game.
It's over before you know it...and most have little idea how high the top really is, and how little room there is up there, so enjoy todays game whatever team your on.

I can't argue with anything you said.

[tomASS]

I think they should be open.
I don't think an assoc. needs to protect kids from their parents.
I do think that parents need to keep their yaps shut during the process.
I also think youth parents need to relax and enjoy the game.
It's over before you know it...and most have little idea how high the top really is, and how little room there is up there, so enjoy todays game whatever team your on.

I can't argue with anything you said.

Ok in the spirit of comprise I will buy into this, since the last 3 points are far more important than how I feel about the first two.

You can't control out of control helicopter parents anyways - logic chip problem

Ok settled, next topic

[hiptzech]

Whoa! Not yet tomASS. I haven’t had my turn, and in all fairness I do get a turn don’t I? After all, I went through the time and effort to create a log in and password to this free web site to share my views in an open and respectful format. Having said that:

Muckandgrind, I am confused with your story. Can you please elaborate? An evaluator told you about this dishonest act of picking on player over another player for the sake of getting the coach to the A level.
Q. How would open try-outs prevent this from happening? Please elaborate.
Q. When this story came out where you involved the spreading of the word about the injustice, or did you wait 24 hours and discuss it with the Evaluation Coordinator?
Q. How would being on site prevent an injury during the try-out? Let me guess you also get mad at officials that don’t call a penalty when a kid gets hurt.

Having been involved in youth hockey for years, I am left to assume you have coached. Assuming that you have coached, you go through a ritual of some type before taking the ice for a game. You would like your kids focused and prepared. Having your background as an evaluator you also know that it is more stressful than before game time. Mom and Dad in a kids face 30 seconds before he goes on ice for try-out doesn’t allow much time to focus.

It seems that you have trust issues, and I do understand the drama of the politics involved in the world. It’s there, so is dishonesty.

At the end of the day my vote goes to closed. I have seen my kid skate, I know his strengths and weaknesses. I watch my kid skate virtually every practice and game, therefore I don’t need to see him during evaluation. If evaluations are open it will be his choice whether I watch or not. My kid does and will get hurt on the ice me being there will not change that. As far as trusting my association and the evaluators, I don’t have a choice. They are going to do what they are going to do. They will make decisions that I don’t agree with and they will make decisions that I do agree with. If there is rigging going on with evaluations it isn’t happening in front of your face, it will be happening behind your back on the phone, in the locker room, or anywhere else the culprits so desire. If people are undermining the evaluation process I would rather not witness, I would rather take the opportunity to coach my kid through more important things in life that will far outlast his time on the ice.

Good luck to the players.

[east hockey]

I think they should be open.
I don't think an assoc. needs to protect kids from their parents.
I do think that parents need to keep their yaps shut during the process.
I also think youth parents need to relax and enjoy the game.
It's over before you know it...and most have little idea how high the top really is, and how little room there is up there, so enjoy todays game whatever team your on.

Are points #3 and #4 even possible?

Lee

[Bash Brother]

I think they should be open.
I don't think an assoc. needs to protect kids from their parents.
I do think that parents need to keep their yaps shut during the process.
I also think youth parents need to relax and enjoy the game.
It's over before you know it...and most have little idea how high the top really is, and how little room there is up there, so enjoy todays game whatever team your on.

Are points #3 and #4 even possible?

Lee

I looked into it and...... the answer is no absolutely not never... because little wayne gets jobbed by those evaluators every year.

[OGEE OGELTHORPE]

I know my son would be dissapointed if I didn't watch tryouts. The day he changes his mind, I won't watch.

[muckandgrind]

Muckandgrind, I am confused with your story. Can you please elaborate? An evaluator told you about this dishonest act of picking on player over another player for the sake of getting the coach to the A level.
Q. How would open try-outs prevent this from happening? Please elaborate.

Open tryouts may not have necessarily prevented THIS occurance, but closing tryouts only breeds suspicion that other dishonest activity happens. Transparency helps create trust.

Q. When this story came out where you involved the spreading of the word about the injustice, or did you wait 24 hours and discuss it with the Evaluation Coordinator?

I wasn't involved with the "spreading of the word", others did that. I just happened to be standing there when the evaluator said what he said.

Q. How would being on site prevent an injury during the try-out? Let me guess you also get mad at officials that don’t call a penalty when a kid gets hurt.

I didn't bring this up, so I can't answer to it.

Having been involved in youth hockey for years, I am left to assume you have coached. Assuming that you have coached, you go through a ritual of some type before taking the ice for a game. You would like your kids focused and prepared. Having your background as an evaluator you also know that it is more stressful than before game time. Mom and Dad in a kids face 30 seconds before he goes on ice for try-out doesn’t allow much time to focus.

I don't know of any parents who are "in a kids face 30 seconds before he goes on the ice"...maybe you do. My kids go in the locker room and get ready without me. I, and other parents, are standing behind the window above the ice in the lobby area.

At the end of the day my vote goes to closed. I have seen my kid skate, I know his strengths and weaknesses. I watch my kid skate virtually every practice and game, therefore I don’t need to see him during evaluation. If evaluations are open it will be his choice whether I watch or not. My kid does and will get hurt on the ice me being there will not change that. As far as trusting my association and the evaluators, I don’t have a choice. They are going to do what they are going to do. They will make decisions that I don’t agree with and they will make decisions that I do agree with. If there is rigging going on with evaluations it isn’t happening in front of your face, it will be happening behind your back on the phone, in the locker room, or anywhere else the culprits so desire. If people are undermining the evaluation process I would rather not witness, I would rather take the opportunity to coach my kid through more important things in life that will far outlast his time on the ice.

Good luck to the players.

That's fine. You don't want to watch your kid skate at the tryouts, and nobody is forcing you to. But other parents DO want to watch. What's wrong with giving the parents the option of watching or not? If you don't want to watch, go run and errand or read a book. Just don't pretend that you speak for all parents, because you don't. Not all parents are over-zealous people, they are just interested in the process and want to watch their kids skate.

How are parents supposed to evaluate the tryout process if they aren't allowed to watch the tryout process. What I mean by "evaluate the tryout process" is that if you don't like how it's being handled, you can bring your concerns to the Board at the next meeting...something you couldn't do if you were shut out of the process.

When I was a young player, I liked to have my dad watch. That way if I wanted to ask him what he thought, he could answer me. If he was shut out, he couldn't. My kids are the same way, they actually ask me what I think and I'm more than happy to give them advice or share my experiences.

I'm getting really tired of all the stereotyping of "hockey dads" and over-generalizations about the motives of parents. I just fail to see any logic or reason in doing the tryouts in secret. Baseball tryouts aren't held in secret. Summer hockey tryouts aren't held in secret. Why should we expect that association hockey be held in secret?

Again the reason why I like to watch is because I like to watch my kids skate and they like to have me watch. It's really that simple. I help pay for the ice, so if I want to watch, I should be able to do so. Most parents are good people who never complain, don't shut them out because of the 10% who do cause trouble.

[tomASS]

Transparency helps create trust.

With reasonable people like you and CNT yes, It does nothing for the ones that are typically the problem. No matter what is done they will find flaws in the system (that can never ever be perfect) when their player does not achieve the level they had hoped for themselves. Not many parents can go into tryouts unemotional. I understand your and CNT's position on open tryouts.
I also find amusing all the parents that are their to watch their own kid but are busy comparing theirs to the other players or providing friends with their assessment of how their kid performed. I use to comeback to pick up my son's and hear, "Wow did he do good tonight," I didn't want to know nor did I care. Those parents were not placing my son. My sons earned or failed to earn the correct roles for each team they played for.

So open or close tryouts will never resolve the problem parents. But for the reasonable parents, does a lack of transparency of what is going on on the ice create a distrust?

I don't know of any parents who are "in a kids face 30 seconds before he goes on the ice"...maybe you do. My kids go in the locker room and get ready without me. I, and other parents, are standing behind the window above the ice in the lobby area.

again I find you to be above the norm. Maybe because that is many of those conversations take place at home or in the car on the way to the rink. Maybe just keeping the parents behind glass when available is a good solution. I have been evaluating too many times when you see and hear the weirdest things coming from the stands

How are parents supposed to evaluate the tryout process if they aren't allowed to watch the tryout process. What I mean by "evaluate the tryout process" is that if you don't like how it's being handled, you can bring your concerns to the Board at the next meeting...something you couldn't do if you were shut out of the process.

You can evaluate the tryout process all you want, but if some board members really wants to cheat the process and do some underhanded things to influence placement, they will find a way and no amount of transparency will stop it. If they feel it is better to cheat to get their kid the placement they want for them; all that is, is a sorry statement that it is better to cheat than have their kid earn a rightful spot.

When I was a young player, I liked to have my dad watch. That way if I wanted to ask him what he thought, he could answer me. If he was shut out, he couldn't. My kids are the same way, they actually ask me what I think and I'm more than happy to give them advice or share my experiences.

I understand your perspective better. I grew up with my dad and mom too busy working. I played for myself and enjoyed the fact that my parents were my biggest supporters, wished the best for me, and allowed me the freedom to succeed or fail without their presence.
So we come from different biases. I can respect that.

I'm getting really tired of all the stereotyping of "hockey dads" and over-generalizations about the motives of parents.

That's because it's really the hockey moms
my over-generalizations come from real life experiences of sport parents. I do think it is a growing plight.

Again the reason why I like to watch is because I like to watch my kids skate and they like to have me watch.

Fair enough, and why I am in support of telling parents that the best way to be there for their players is by not being there rather than continuing to advocate closed tryouts. That way "if the shoe fits, wear it" if it doesn't apply have fun watching and enjoying your kids

but I will be the first one to come up and laugh in your face if I hear you uttering under your breath, "come on, pick it up!" then I will think you are there for other reasons

[hiptzech]

Muckandgrind,

Now that is clarification. Some of your previous posts came off a little defensive and full of suspect. When you tone down your response it is much easier to understand your points. Thank you for clarifying some of your previous posts.

Like I said, if he wants me there and it's open I will be there. If doesn't want me there, I will stay away. If they are closed so be it, there is a lot of hockey to watch during the season. You see I really don’t care what level my kid skates at, the coach that he is skating with is more important to me. I hope I am not put in a position to have to question or care whether he should have been an A, B, or C. I am not going to allow myself to get wrapped around the axel over 5-7 hours of evaluations and sacrifice a lifetime of love for the sport. It ain’t worth it.

[DuckDuckQuackQuack]

Tomass - maybe only the private school parents show up on test days at school since according to Quacker's logic - they paid for the privilege??

Parents - make sure they get lots of rest and are well nourished and hydrated. Then drop them at the rink (plenty early with all their gear) and when you pick them up after tryouts - ask them if they are hungry and what they'd like for dinner.

It's only a game.

Good luck to everyone at tryouts.

Doglover- Thank you! It is only a game. Board members are parents just like everyone else. Does it really matter if the parents are there or not? Who cares?
The parents that do complain will complain regardless. Not sure why parents (board members) are telling other parents that they cannot watch tryouts? Is there something to hide?
Keep in mind there's a reason why people volunteer. I want to say for most it's the love of the game for some it's for the perks for their kids.

[tomASS]

Like I said, if she wants me there and it's open I will be there. If she doesn't want me there, I will stay away.

Same goes for the wife?

I took some editorial liberties with your original post

sorry I couldn't resist going into the gutter. It's where I do my best work

[JoeBoy]

I think the tryouts should be open. All of the reasons for closing them outside of parents yelling from the stands will occur whether parents are present or not. Including the shady stuff and this does happen. I'll offer another annecdotal story : In our association a player was placed on a top level team even after a bad tryout cause the people selecting the team knew he was better than what he showed at the tryout.

I just like to watch the scrimmages ... I'll even admit I look to see who looks good and who doesnt even though I'm not an expert.

People just need to be reasonable but closing the tryouts discussing it here wont ever change the people that cause the problems ... I doubt anything will. Its just how they are.

[muckandgrind]

I think the tryouts should be open. All of the reasons for closing them outside of parents yelling from the stands will occur whether parents are present or not. Including the shady stuff and this does happen. I'll offer another annecdotal story : In our association a player was placed on a top level team even after a bad tryout cause the people selecting the team knew he was better than what he showed at the tryout.

I just like to watch the scrimmages ... I'll even admit I look to see who looks good and who doesnt even though I'm not an expert.

People just need to be reasonable but closing the tryouts discussing it here wont ever change the people that cause the problems ... I doubt anything will. Its just how they are.

I agree. If you are going to have parents complain even if the tryouts are closed, then there is no reason to close them.

[hiptzech]

Like I said, if she wants me there and it's open I will be there. If she doesn't want me there, I will stay away.

Same goes for the wife?

I took some editorial liberties with your original post

sorry I couldn't resist going into the gutter. It's where I do my best work

As Curly would say "Ain't it the truth"

[DuckDuckQuackQuack]

I think the tryouts should be open. All of the reasons for closing them outside of parents yelling from the stands will occur whether parents are present or not. Including the shady stuff and this does happen. I'll offer another annecdotal story : In our association a player was placed on a top level team even after a bad tryout cause the people selecting the team knew he was better than what he showed at the tryout.

I just like to watch the scrimmages ... I'll even admit I look to see who looks good and who doesnt even though I'm not an expert.

People just need to be reasonable but closing the tryouts discussing it here wont ever change the people that cause the problems ... I doubt anything will. Its just how they are.

I agree. If you are going to have parents complain even if the tryouts are closed, then there is no reason to close them.

No one has ever come up with a logical reason for closed tryouts. Most associations know who's going to be on what team before the tryouts. I think this is the main reason to close tryouts. Parents will complain regardless if their at the tryouts or after the tryouts. Human nature. Last year I even spoke with one board member venting about how the tryouts format was set up. I noticed this year our assocaition has a new format. I'm fine with all of this I think the association needs to disclose why the changes and how it benefits the association this will result in less questions from the parents. It's really that simple.